Talk:Larry Bird
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 |
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography. For more information, visit the project page. | ||||||
| B | This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale. [FAQ] | ||||||
 |
This article is supported by the Sports and games work group. | ||||||
|
|||||||
 |
This article is part of WikiProject Indiana, a WikiProject related to the U.S. state of Indiana. | ||
| B | This article has been rated as B-Class on the quality scale. | ||
| Mid | This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the importance scale. | ||
|
Article Grading:
|
|||
 |
Larry Bird is within the scope of WikiProject Indianapolis, an open collaborative effort to coordinate work for and sustain comprehensive coverage of metropolitan Indianapolis, Indiana and related subjects in the Wikipedia. | |
| B | This article has been rating as B-Class on the Project's quality scale. | |
| Mid | This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the Project's importance scale. | |
 |
Please explain ratings on the ratings summary page. | |
 |
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Boston Celtics, which aims to improve all articles related to the Boston Celtics. | |
| B | This article has been rated as B-Class on the assessment scale. | |
| Top | This article is on a subject of Top-importance within Boston Celtics articles. | |
| Comments about the quality and importance of this article have been left at: Talk:Larry Bird/Comments | ||
 |
This article is part of a WikiProject to improve Wikipedia's articles related to Basketball. For guidelines see WikiProject Basketball and Wikipedia:Contributing FAQ. |
[edit] Early discussions
Sorry, but I simply will not allow John Stockton and Larry Bird to be mentioned in the same sentence as great passers of the 80s era. That's like citing the Lambourgini and the Yugo as the classic cars of that time. My goodness. 10/20/05
- It's very difficult to compare Stockton and Bird in terms of passing. Stockton's role obviously was more geared towards racking up assists. Bird is 39th all-time in assists per game. There are only about five other players in the top 100 who are within three inches of his height and they all rank below him (Grant Hill is closest at 59th, 5.6 apg). 10/13/06
I revamped this article considerably, to summarize Bird's accomplishments stage by stage (early life, college, early pro years, etc) and to provide more detail (stats, awards, specific game performances). I don't like rewriting someone else's work and usually won't, but as a lifelong Bird and Celtics fan, I had to do it. The previous article was atrocious in its lack of attention to detail (no stats? an exhaustive list of Bird's nicknames, but no descriptions of game performances, such as the Nique-Bird fourth quarter shootout???) and bizarre topics (e.g., the fact that Bird's father "committed suicide with a shotgun"--does it really matter how he did it? And who cares about the Larry Bird exception, which I think was rendered obsolete by the 1999 collective bargaining agreement?). 6/26/05
Actually, the Larry Bird Exception has been incorporated in each of the collective bargaining agreements and expanded to include not only the "Bird Exception," (which is referred to in the 2005 CBA as a "Qualifying Free Agent") but the "Early Bird Exception" (codified as "Non-Qualifying Free Agent"). [1] It is a rather important part of the NBA's free agent system and the terms "Bird" and "Non-Bird" are still very much in common usage when describing these two categories of free agents. [2] How relevant it is to Larry Bird, the player, is debatable though I believe that it marked a paradigmatic change in the way the business of sport was conducted (moving back toward a system which allowed, if not incentized, teams to keep hometown stars and therefore, not alienate fans). 7/13/06
Could somebody put more in about Bird's career? What position did he usually play? What distinctive gifts did he bring to the position (as I recall, not much athletic ability but a freakishly good 3-point shot). --Robert Merkel
"Not much athletic ability" is only accurate if you accept foot speed as the only athletic ability. Bird was extremely strong, even for such a large man and he was capable of moving other players, even very big players, out of position. Also, he had especially strong hands. When you combine these things with his ruthless pursuit of a rebound, these athletic abilities became extremely important. While he wasn't fast, his feet were quick, which gave him a good first step. He also had quick hands and was able to make many steals. He was certainly a below-average jumper for an NBA forward. However, he was extremely agile and could get his body into the right space to get the ball or put it into the basket. This made his jumping more effective. His endurance, which is also an important athletic ability, was exemplary until his back injuries made him a much lesser player in many respects. He had excellent eyesight, which contributed to his shooting and to his exceptional passing. It is very easy to overlook Bird's physical advantages because the cliche is that he was average physically but outworked and out-thought his opponents but that cliche is unfair to his opponents and to the memory of Bird's game. But the main asset he had was that he was totally ruthless. Dominique Wilkins said that looking into Larry Birds eyes was staring into the eyes of an assassin. Will in New Haven
With all the great European and other "Caucasian" international players in the NBA today, isn't it a bit odd to say he was the "greatest Caucasian player". It may be true, but it sounds a bit dated (1980's early 1990's when the NBA was over 90% black, now it's less so, and people really thought white people might not be able to compete in the sport for some reason).
Then again, we see so often "best African American ____ " or " best woman ______ " that when the roles are fairly reversed they strike us as odd.
The Bird Exception is still a part of the CBA and is an important element in his legacy. Please, everyone, stop using the word "caucasian." Its scientific aura is bogus; it means nothing more than "white."
- In fact, its bogus in this context for a totally different reason - the majority of caucasians are not "white".WilyD 14:27, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Nickname
Didn't he have the nickname "The Hick From French Lick"? —preceding unsigned comment by 203.26.206.129 (talk • contribs) 18:28, November 22, 2005
- It was a self-deprecating name that he called himself--Rogerd 05:50, 23 November 2005 (UTC)
Ummmmmmm, i don't know anything about larry bird. do you?
[edit] Bio
I added the brief bio section to the right side of the article. Is it better or worse?
[edit] All star every season?
The statement that Larry Bird was an Eastern Conference All Star during each of his 12 NBA seasons is incorrect. He was not an All Star in 1989, when he was injured for the majority of the season. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.251.205.135 (talk) 01:05, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Racial Implications of Celtics-Lakers Rivalry
The section on the Celtics-Lakers rivalry is accurate and informative, but it avoids (either intentionally or otherwise) a major focal point thereof. One of the biggest reasons--if not the biggest reason--the country was so fascinated by the rivalry was the racial implications it held. Yes, there were African-American players on the Celtics and Caucasian players on the Lakers, but the most visible participants were White Celtics (Bird, McHale, Walton) and Black Lakers (Johnson, Abdul-Jabbar, Worthy) and that's why so many Americans held stock in the games between the two teams.
Yes, I know the article mentions further down that Bird was a Caucasian in a predominantly African-American league, but that's woefully inadequate. Someone needs to talk about the racial implications of the Lakers-Celtics battle in the appropriate section. I'd do it myself, but this is a very touchy subject that requires a certain diplomatic aptitude I don't possess. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.161.23.60 (talk • contribs) 19:05, November 26, 2005.
- I'm not sure how relevant that really is though. There were never any overt racial issues and the Lakers had a massive following from an almost overwhelmingly white fan-base. Boston was coached by a black man who happened to have a white superstar. Johnson and Bird became close friends so I'm just not sure that it is there. Why create something that is based solely on conjecture? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lochdale (talk • contribs) 15:41, December 15, 2005.
-
- I'll tackle the racial implications. Red Auerbach was once asked why he didn't draft Magic Johnson, and was asked if he deliberately drafted "the white guy". Auerbach said that his job was to draft someone that the people of boston would pay see. Boston has a REPUTATION for being racist. (please do NOT flame for this. It's my opinion of how the country views my city. That's all). Anyway Red is a businessman and all things being equal, you have to see his point. (Even if he is selling his product to a bigoted community).
-
- So they drafted Len Bias in '85 for what reason? Last time I checked, Bias was black as was Dennis Johnson and Robert Parish. Further, any chance of a cite for the Auerbach quote or are we just to take you are your world?
What these two teams represented racially is cleverly used in the film "American History X". A white, neo-nazi prison inmate is arguing why the celtics are so much better than the lakers with the Black inmate who of course favors the Lakers. It was also used in the Spike Lee's "Do the right thing". P.S. Happy MLK day to all. ::Gibbonsk@gmail.com
Regarding the claim that Red Auerbach didn't draft Magic Johnson essentially because the people of Boston preferred white players to black players: Ummm, Larry Bird was drafted 6th by Auerbach in the year before Magic Johnson entered the NBA draft early. That was quite some racial foresight on Auerbach's part, wouldn't you say? (Douglas J. Bender [Elkhart, IN]) douglasjbender@hotmail.com
Come on now. You really believe that the country's fascination with Lakers-Celtics was largely racially motivated? Yes, Boston has a terrible history of racism towards its black athletes, and yes, there were fans who followed Bird and the Celtics because they were pulling for the white guys, but to say that race had a significant thing to do with fan interest at the time is ridiculous. I suppose Bird and Magic elevated the NBA to "America's game" for this reason, in your opinion?
When the NBA talks about the Bird/Magic rivalry, it says that the rivalry was everything: West vs East, Black vs White, showtime vs Blue-collar, easy-going vs trash-talker...race was in there, but so was everything else. People identified with the white, country, blue-collar trash-talker as much as they did the big-city, flashy black guy with the big smile. That article is somewhere in the NBA.com archives, I'll look it up later. My personal opinion though is just noting that race is one of the reasons for the rivalry is good enough - don't make it a big deal. Billybobjoe786 (talk) 11:35, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Greatest white athlete?
With all due respect, the assertion that Larry Bird may well be the greatest white athlete of all time is a view shared by a large portion of the populous. If you can think of a more accomplished white athlete, in any field, then I would be more than happy to humor you. If, in the meantime, as a compromise, you would be willing to allow me to post that he is, at the very least, the greatest white athlete the NBA has ever known, I would take no issue. Do you mean to suggest that, since Larry Bird happened to be white, his achievements in the sport are any less significant? To me, that discrimination is the very manifestation of what Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. fought so hard to destroy. (unsigned comment by User:68.60.162.97)
If anything someone could make an inherently POV assertion that Larry Bird is the greatest white athlete in the NBA, but to ever try to calculate the greatest athlete in hundreds of sports whose skin was white is fruitless. Are there any instances in Wikipedia of an athlete being called the greatest black athlete? BabuBhatt 07:42, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
- Also, it's easy to login in as an editor and it makes it easier for editors to communicate with each other.
-
- I'm moving the discussion over to Larry Bird talk page. BabuBhatt 07:48, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
- "If you can think of a more accomplished white athlete, in any field, then I would be more than happy to humor you."
Easy.
Don Bradman
Diego Maradona
Wayne Gretsky
(These three are so far ahead it's embarrassing).
Jack Nicklaus
Babe Ruth
Stanley Matthews
George Best
Michael Schumacher
Johann Cruyff
Lev Yashin
Shane Warne
Pete Sampras
Rod Laver
Larry Bird probably makes it into the top 100 greatest white athletes of all time, but no more.
- Well, that discussion aside, I guess I'd like thoughts on whether a subjective statement like that belongs in an article at all. I think not. BabuBhatt 07:47, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
Add Lance Armstrong to that list.
[edit] Well..
He is extremely allergic.
[edit] Coaching Record needed
Could someone write a detailed article about Larry Bird's coaching career with the Indiana Pacers? The number of games won, stats, etc?
[edit] More Pictures
somebody add more pictures of his college and celtic years, and maybe some when he was coaching or more recent
darn right! SOmebody add any pictures at all
[edit] African American Lineage?
isn't it true Larry Bird has common ancestors with Bill Russell? i remember reading that somewhere, can anyone confirm this? --me, you 00:26, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Bio
The bio of Bird on this page basically stops after his first few seasons. I added headings for the second two stages of his career. Plan to fill in text as soon as I have some time this coming week. If others want to help, please do. --Mackabean 05:14, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
- It was there, somebody vandalized it recently, deleting all the content and it slipped through the cracks and I reverted it. Luckily I remembered seeing it there in the past. Quadzilla99 14:01, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Legacy
The information that was in the legacy section (statistics, notes on trash talking) seemed like it was way more appropriate for the player profile section. So I moved it. I do think there are interesting things that could be said about Bird's legacy with regards to race, the popularity of the NBA, and even the way the game of basketball is played. But I don't think the info in there before really spoke to those larger issues. If I have time this week or next, I will try to put some stuff up there about legacy. But if others have ideas, please feel free to add them. --Mackabean 15:24, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Recent Vandalism
There seems to be a lot of vandalism on this page recently from 204.184.61.253, might want to keep an eye out for that. (RidleyDragon 21:51, 24 April 2007 (UTC))
[edit] Memorable moments
About the game on March 31, 1991 wikipedia says: Bird almost won the game for his team at the end of regulation when his 30-foot 3-point shot just missed after getting a high bounce on top of the rim. It was a long time ago however I remember Bird scored 3 point in last few seconds of the regulation time and sent the game into overtime. Possible I am misleading facts. Article says something like this about the game in next year against Portland Trail Blazers but I am nearly sure that the opponents were Chicago Bulls. Is anyone able to verify this? kuszi 21:07, 19 May 2007 (UTC).
- Regarding the March 15 game in 1992, the opponents were the Trailblazers: see [3] Myasuda 02:57, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
- Dates, opponents and results are ok, I am not sure about the additional description. kuszi 08:56, 20 May 2007 (UTC).
[edit] Trivia Tag
This page has a trivia section, and I will delete it soon, so I suggest that relevant information be included in the article. Black Harry (Highlights|Contribs) 19:52, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Don Mattingly
Larry Bird is not married to Don Mattingly's sister. Mattingly does not have a sister. It is true that Larry Bird married a woman who's last name was Mattingly and she was from Indiana like Mattingly, but they were married in 1989. The referenced article from 1991 (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D0CE4D71730F93BA35757C0A967958260&n=Top/Reference/Times%20Topics/People/B/Bird,%20Larry) clearly shows that Larry and Don did not even MEET until 1991. Larry and Dinah were married in 1989. Don't you think that Don would have attended his own sister's wedding??? Donaldd23 —Preceding comment was added at 00:49, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Celtics assessment
Should it really be top? Shouldn't it be high? Basketball110 what famous people say ♣ 03:31, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
- Top it is. Basketball110 what famous people say ♣ 20:36, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
