Talk:Lara Croft Tomb Raider: The Cradle of Life

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[edit] Indy rip-off poppycock...

Apparently, someone did not like a comparisson on the main page between the first twenty minutes of Tomb Raider: Cradle of Life and the first twenty minutes of Raiders of the Lost Ark, and as such he took it upon himself to remove the information in question. This is what he had to say:

"Okay, this has got to be the biggest load of poppycock I've seen on Wikipedia. Yes, the very idea of the Tomb Raider games is obviously borrowed from Indiana Jones, but throwing around accusations and pointing out apparent similarities just seems completely retarded. The film failed because it was long and boring, not because people accused it of ripping Raiders. Unless, someone can point to a reputable source for this information you can bugger off. -TheHande 10:37, 15 October 2006 (UTC)"

Now, TheHande wants to point out the "biggest load of poppycock" is...what? The reader cannot tell, for TheHande deleted it, so how can the reader judge for himself whether or not the article was factual? He also demands a reputable source for the information he deleted, but he forgets the fact that it is the audience in the theater who can or cannot tell the differences between the films. Whether or not it was intended does not matter; Cradle of Life did copy Raiders of the Lost Ark and did it rather cheaply. Both films are readly available on DVD and video so that anyone can see without writing to officials at Paramount and demanding they explain themselves, as TheHande would have you do. Obviously, the TheHande never bothered to do that, but his above rant is still included, unedited. As to the information he deleted, it is included below as a courtesy to the Wikipedia reader:

The first twenty minutes of both films:

1. They open in an exotic location. Indy in a Peruvian jungle, Lara on the island of Santorini.

2. Lara and Indy are each looking for a hidden temple containing an exotic object.

3. Both find the object, only to have the temple collapse around them and the object taken from them by bad guys.

4. Lara and Indy narrowly escape the bad guys; both escapes involve water, and both feature a hair-raising encounter with an animal (Lara and a shark, Indy and a snake).

5. Lara is at home, angry over the loss of her object, and discussing with her butler the ways and means of getting it back. Indy is in class, angry over the loss of his object, and discussing with a colleague the ways and means of getting it back.

6. Lara and Indy are interrupted by agents of their respective governments.

7. Lara discovers that the object she was seeking is connected to Pandora's Box. Indy discovers that the Nazis are looking for an object that would lead them to the Ark of the Covenant. The only way to discover both the Box and the Ark is via a map, with Lara's object projecting one pointing to the location of the Box, and Indy's pointing to the location of the Ark.

8. The agents in both films are very disbelieving, leading to the following dialogue: Indy "Any of you guys ever go to Sunday School?" Lara "That's the Sunday School version, yes."

9. Indy and Lara are recruited to find the objects in question, but it involves an individual each had an intimate relationship with: Marion in Raiders, and Terry in Cradle. And both characters are found in an isolated, snowy environment.

For one I have actually seen Raiders and the similarities you drew are vague at best. Here's why...

1. Raiders opens in a jungle, Lara at open sea. Where's the similarity? They're not even at the same continent.

2. Wrong, Lara is looking for hidden treasure and rather stumbles on the orb (she has no knowledge of what it is). Indy is actually looking for the idol and it is the only treasure in the entire temple.

3. Yes, this happens in just about every action film that has anything to do with archaeology, not just Raiders.

4. Very vague. Lara actually escapes through water, Indy is almost run down by a boulder and only swims the short distance from the shore to the plane. Lara actually comes in violent contact with a shark where's Indy just gets freaked by the pilots pet-snake (hardly hair-raising and more of a comical scene).

5. Again, Indy is hardly angry, Lara is furious.

6. This one actually makes sense.

7. This one also makes sense

8. This similarity is rather fading since Lara's scene is more dramatic.

9. You forget that Marion carries an important clue while Lara's mate is really just dumb-muscle, a double-crosser and former con. But the icy environment was on tack.

All in all I think the similarities are too vague to be of any importance or relevance. Please don't put them on the page again. -TheHande 21:49, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

The information is neither vague nor unimportant. I had placed the info on the main page so the average Wikipeda reader can be informed. With all due respect, you are an admitted video gamer, and you are not a member of the Wiki staff. You are subject to the same rules as everyone else here. I will place relevent information on various webpages as I see fit; the Wiki staff will determine whether or not they remain, and I do trust their judgement. I do not need your permission otherwise. Carajou 04:54, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

And another thing, don't touch my debunking of your bullshit either. I didn't remove that horrid list from the talk page even though I really wanted to. For one thing any film that has anything to do with archaology almost always takes place in an exotic locale, naturally, because all ancient ruins of ancient civilizations are located there. Not only is poitn 1 not even a similarity it is completely irrelevant. Have you seen National Treasure or Armour of God? They take place in remote exotic locales. Besides Santorini can only be considered exotic if you're not Greek. Also, Indy's escape did not include much water anyway (more like a cave, a boulder, a run through the jungle and a bunch of angry navites, Lara cuts herself to attract a shark to her location, plus Reggie is a pet-snake and most likely non-poisoneous). Also Indy is anything but angry, frustrated but nowhere near as violent as Lara who comes close to beating the shit out of her butler.

Additinally, you have not made any convincing arguments for your claims and right now I see it as a bunch of Original Research which is prohibited. It is not accepted fact, you're just twisting very broad similarities to serve your obvious agenda against the film. If you compare the movies side-by-side you'll notice very little to no similarity. Stop adding this bullhonkey, someone else is bound to get on to you. -TheHande 07:47, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Your conduct has been reported to Wikipedia staff. I do not appreciate, nor will I tolerate your attitude and potty-mouth. It is one thing to engage in ordinary and civil discussion; it is another to stomp all over others because you don't like what is written. Carajou 13:04, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Hah! I have nothing to fear. All I did was remove a crackhead accusation that you cooked up. There is nothing in the wiki-guidelines that prohibits the removal non-factual and unsourced claims. My conduct is not at fault, yours is. -TheHande 15:31, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi, there's nothing wrong with removing unsourced speculation. Saying this film copies from another film without a reliable source to back it up is original research and as such, should be removed. If you feel there are similarities between the film, great, but this is an encyclopedia, not a place to include your personal views of the similarities between two films. - Bobet 15:42, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

So, what you're saying, Bobet, is that I cannot use two films as a source for what I've written, and I have to be subject to the abuse of crank (TheHande) who can pretty much be as foul-mouthed as he wants. Is that what you're saying? Carajou 22:24, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

What two films? I think I've already established during this exchange that the openings of Cradle and Raiders are nothing alike. And don't be a baby, if you can't handle a little bit of swearing you shouldn't take part in internet-conversations to begin with. I might have been a bit aggressive but your ridiculous claims aggravated me enough to really get pissed. In my eyes this is like vandalizing a Uwe Boll page and taking it up a notch. -TheHande 22:44, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

You're right on the first point. In case you didn't click on the policy page I linked, here't the short version of it: "Articles may not contain any unpublished arguments, ideas, data, or theories; or any unpublished analysis or synthesis of published arguments, ideas, data, or theories that serves to advance a position." Your additions are a great example of a novel theory that someone came up with, with no published sources to back it up, making it original research.

On your second point: I already left him a note about it on his talk page (similarly to the one I left you about vandalizing his userpage), that doesn't change the basis of his argument though, which is correct in my opinion. - Bobet 10:17, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I'm doing it now

Lara Croft Tomb Raider: The Cradle of Life Soundtrack --Tudor Tulok 00:02, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism

An individual has completely vandalized this article. It needs repairing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.167.244.147 (talk) 16:10, 5 November 2007 (UTC)