Talk:Lapis lazuli

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Additional text by Arpingstone is similar to http://www.palagems.com/lapis_lazuli_bancroft.htm (see bottom of article, Palagems.com Lapis Lazuli Buying Guide, By Richard W. Hughes). It's not identical, but presumably derived from the same source. This source should be named in the article and should also be checked for copyright problems.

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[edit] Menotti

With the passing of the Composer Gian Carlo Menotti this week (2.1.2007) it might be appropos to include a reference to Lapis Lazuli in his Television Opera Amahl and the Night Visitors one of the Kings, Casper, I believe, sings about one of the drawers of the box he carries with him to ward off disease, evil and danger and includes a reference to " One Lapis Lazuli against quaterne(sp?) fever"Wenshott 22:34, 3 February 2007 (UTC)Wenshott 2.3.2007 3:33 pm MST

-(

Hi to the writer of the above. Yes, this was obviously one of my sources and I now regret not changing the wording more, I will do so if an Admin asks me to. However I used only a tiny fraction of the text on that site so I think it's OK. On the question of references, I used 14 sources for the article (6 gem books I own and 8 web sites) so the reference list would be very long!

I think that each article in Wikipedia should be self contained and therefore not need references so I made the article quite long to include all the facts about lapis. To get more the reader can simply type Lapis Lazuli into Google, I think any web user would know to do that. I am not therefore much in favour of references (which can go out of date) whereas Google (obviously) will always be up to date.

Thanks for your comments, I appreciate your concern but I think all is well.

(By the way, it wasn't additional text, the whole thing is my work) Arpingstone 13:49 Feb 9, 2003 (UTC)

My understanding of copyright is that this is the wrong way to go about things. If you take some text and change it, what you have is a "derived work" and the copyright of the original author still holds. However facts can not be copyrighted, so it's perfectly OK to make a list of facts from an article and then write something new based on these facts (to me this is bizarre and the world would be better off if copyright was abolished, but that's irrelevant from a legal point of view).

I think it's important that the references are included, since a) a reader can decide whether the information is likely to be correct, based on where it comes from b) the reader can go and find further information or check the accuracy of the article c) it helps avoid accusation of plagiarism, since you're admitting the source of the information already (e.g., see the article I just about Elizabeth Fry whos picture I'd found on a five pound note but was unknown to me).

I think it's unlikely that you'd need to cite all of the 14 sources you mention: most likely you'd only need to take information from a few and the rest would be duplicates. But if necessary, it'd be fine to list all 14 sources.

-( 14:53 Feb 9, 2003 (UTC)

What exactly is meant by "...one of the oldest of all gems...?" Such a phrase makes it sound like it is one of the oldest gems to form in the history of the earth. Is that what the phrase is meant to mean? Or is it meant to mean that it is one of the oldest used by man? Kingturtle 09:04, 28 Sep 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Grammar usage query

Is the term 'cast' as used in the description paragraph: 'these are often a very dark blue with a noticeable grey cast' a specialist useage, and if so should it be explained here? Although I guessed it's likely meaning, I needed to look it up to confirm (='tinge' or 'shade'?). I suppose it's a question of expected reader literacy, but personally I wouldn't expect most readers to be confident of what is meant in this context. But I could well be wrong - anyone agree?

PS re. q from Kingturtle above, I did understand the phrase to mean one of the oldest used by man, but I agree perhaps this could be clearer. Garrog 11:11, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Chemical formula

If I find the chemical formula of lapis lazuli in a book and I put it in the article, would I have to cite the source? Because I found it in a book somewhere. Evan Robidoux 10:49, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Yes please. Verifiability is crucial to the development of wikipedias reputation as an accurate source of information.SauliH 01:00, 2 February 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Indian name for Lapis Lazuli

What's name for Lapis Lazuli in any Indian language ? Is it panna normally speken together with Diamond as Heera - Panna ? WIN 07:10, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Scale?

Can we have a picture with a pencil or some other thing used to denote the scale? Thanks.--0rrAvenger 01:03, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup of references and external links

I have moved some links from the References section to External links, as they were not used as references. Additionally, I have removed the following links:

Peter Bancroft, Lapis Lazuli from Afghanistan in Gem and Crystal Treasures (1984) Western Enterprises/Mineralogical Record, Fallbrook, CA - Palagems information page
Emporia.edu What is it?

The first link was to a site that primarily sells products, and is therefore inappropriate. The second link was to an undergraduate student's presentation which is of questionable value when industry sources are available for citation. Maralia 17:04, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pronunciation

Can someone who knows how the phrase "lapis lazuli" is pronounced please provide a pronunciation guide? I.e. is it LAY-pis LA-zoo-lee? LA-pis la-ZOO-lie? Something that's a mixture of the two? I can translate it into IPA for the article if someone can provide a layman's pronunciation here. Chaoticfluffy (talk) 20:35, 9 June 2008 (UTC)