Talk:Laodicea on the Lycus
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[edit] Comments
[edit] The name of this article?
Was previously Laodicea ad Lycum has been moved to Laodicea on the Lycus. I'm not sure what the convention is, but how should this article be named. 'Laodicea on the Lycus' is not what this city is called in English - it would simply be called 'Laodicea'. We obviously need some form of disambig, as there are other cities of this name mentioned at Laodicea. But how notable are they - should this article occupy that space and the disambig that is there be moved to Laodicea (disambiguation)? Alternatively should we rename this article Laodicea (Phrygia) - or something like? Any opinions? --Doc (?) 13:23, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
- This is the standard means of disambiguation among modern historians of the Hellenistic period, and is the English form: to translate the Greek epithet, not into Latin, but into English (where that can be done conveniently; Alexandria Eschate is sometimes an exception). Observe, for example, that Seleucia on the Tigris is so called in her article, and when the article requires disambiguation, as it eventually will, it should be moved to the full form.
- As for links to this article, there are three; all now single redirects. Septentrionalis 13:47, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
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- It is possible that this article could stay at Laodicea, since the others all have modern names: Latakia, Beirut, Nihavend - but I would deprecate this, as an invitation to bad links. Of these, Laodicea in Syria was much the largest, as the port of Antioch. (The Loeb puncuates Strabo so as to make "Laodicea on the sea" a description, not a proper name; Pausanias calls them simply Laodiceans - I think if Laodicea is not the dab, the Syrian city should have it.) Septentrionalis 15:34, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
[edit] "Neither cold nor hot"
I don't where this should go in the article, but the name "Laodicea" has a metaphorical usage which derives from Revelation 3:14-16. It is sometimes used to refer to Christians or congregations which are no longer zealous for the faith. Should there be a "cultural significance" section to mention this fact, and does it belong here or on a disambiguation page? --User:Mdbates
- I think we have it covered at Laodicean Church. --Doc ask? 19:56, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
Further observations on 'Neither cold nor hot'
The message throughout Revelation is largely symbolic (Rev 1:1). However, when Jesus conveyed these prophecies to the Apostle John, he gave specific messages to seven of the congregations located in Asia Minor, namely, Ephesus, Sardis, Smyrna, Philadelphia, Pergamum, Thyatira and, of course, Laodicea. Without a doubt, these seven congregations understood Christ's messages to them. The message to Laodicea was especially caustic and biting to the congregation and they knew it's import.
Laodicea lay along one of the major trade routes of the Roman Empire. Imports from the east via the Black Sea to the Dardenelles, along with trade with the western provinces of Rome made Laodicea one of the wealthiest cities in the Roman Empire. Besides a great accumulation of wealth, the Laodiceans also prided themselves in a lucrative textile industry, along with being the leader of eye medications for the Empire.
Revelation 3: 14 - 18 shows Christ's disapproval of this congregation. The appearance of being 1) wealthy, 2) a leader in textile production and 3) a leader in ointments for the eyes was well known throughout Asia Minor. The 17th verse of Revelation, Chapter 3 reads, "Because you say, 'I am rich and have acquired riches and do not need anything at all', but you do not know that you are miserable and pitiable and poor and blind and naked". shows that the Laodicean congregation was in reality poor, naked and blind, despite it's worldly prominence. Verse 18 reads, "I advise you to buy from me gold refined by fire that you may become rich, and white outer garments that you may become dressed and that the shame of your nakedness may not become manifested, and eyesalve to rub in your eyes that you may see."
So this was a message by Christ instructing the Laodiceans to correct their way of thinking in regard to their pursuit of material things vs their original purpose which, of course, was the pursuit of spiritual things. Their continued pursuits in materialism and wealth far exceeded the more important spiritual requirements, i.e., the spreading of the good news throughout the region which was supposed to be their main objective.
There is more meaning to the message to the Laodicean congregation in verses 15 and 16: "'I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were cold or else hot. So because you are lukewarm and neither hot nor cold, I am going to vomit you out of my mouth.'" Anyone who lived in this region knew that the water brought to Laodicea via the aquaducts was not the best in the area. The water was not refreshing, it was lukewarm and full of minerals like iron and calcium. So fellow Christians from other congregations who associated with the Laodiceans could readily identify the problems that this congregation had. Christ had laid it bare for all to see. ~~Bill
