Talk:Languages of Nigeria

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[edit] Arabic?

I have taken out the Arabic listing as one of the major languages of Nigeria. To the best of my knowledge, Arabic is spoken only indigenously by the Shuwa Arabs. It has always been a norm that the three major languages in Nigeria are the Hausa/Fulani, Igbo and Yoruba. IF you examine the population data, you'll discover the Efik-Ibibio group are definitely more than the Arabs.

Arabic is hardly spoken conversationally in the Northern part of the country (if the person who made the edits decides to use that argument), and the very few people who say anything Arabic are mainly muslims who's knowledge of Arabic is restricted to the Quran, but that is another topic Azuka 06:31, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Fully agree. I support your removal of Arabic. — mark ✎ 09:58, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
Thanks... Azuka
To the best of my knowledge, Fulani is not one of the major languages in Nigeria. Your list above should actually be Hausa, Yoruba and Igbo Emmakene 01:03, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
I think he doesn't mean Fulani as a language; I took his comment as referring to the fact that a sizable portion of the Hausa speakers are ethnically/historically Fulani who switched to Hausa after the Fulani Jihad. — mark ✎ 08:03, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Major expansion of the List

I'm expanding the list of languages of Nigeria. Various sources indicate that there are in fact between 400 and 550 languages in Nigeria. Additionally some statements previously contained on this page, such as that only the elite part of Nigerian population speaks English, are just false. --Mike Sorensen 18:45, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Mike. I'll be returning to do some basic formatting and linking to make it more readable -- Azuka 19:55, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing some erroneous statements Mike. I have, however, removed the list because it is absolutely a bad idea for us to include an outright copy of Ethnologue's data on Nigerian languages. Besides, that's not our business — listing languages is something Ethnologue does, we do not need to duplicate its function. Rather, what we need here is a comprehensive article on the languages, language families, sociolinguistics, and language politics of Nigeria. Something more along the lines of Languages of Uganda for example. — mark ✎ 21:04, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Why is it a bad idea. Can you be more specific Mark. I think it is a great idea to include a full list. Maybe a separate page may be in order for it. As far as outright copy is concerned, this is explicitly permitted by the author of the list at question so again I don't see why would it be a bad idea. The references were specifically stated in the header and in the footer. What is the point of having an incomplete list as it is right now ? It looks bad and it doesn't reflect what is being discussed here.--Mike Sorensen 23:19, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

First, as I said, the verbatim copying of lists available elsewhere is not the 'core business' of Wikipedia; see What Wikipedia is not for more information. Secondly, you are wrong in assuming that the Ethnologue (a well-known site to language specialists both on and off Wikipedia) permits wholesale copying of their content. The footer notice says (on this page like on all of their pages) that the page may be cited, but that's something quite different from copying it. The terms of use of the Ethnologue state the following: You may make links to these documents (with proper attribution), but you may not mirror (i.e., place copies of) these documents, in part or whole, on your site without permission of SIL International (email International Administrator Copyright Permissions). Clear enough, I think.

Lastly, you ask 'what is the point of having an incomplete list as it is right now'? There is some merit to that question; if you ask me, I would be in favor of removing the list altogether and starting to write encyclopedic content. Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. People come here because they expect to find quality encyclopedic content and not just a bunch of lists (see also Wikipedia is an encyclopedia). Therefore, I agree with you that this article shouldn't have an incomplete list; it shoud instead cover such issues as language politics, offical/recognized languages, sociolinguistics, languages, language families, dialectological issues, et cetera. Again, look at Languages of Uganda for a good approximation of a "Languages of X" article. — mark ✎ 09:52, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your reply. I see your point. It will take some work and some time (2 years :-), since there are over 500 languages but I will try to group them by language family and attach a commentary with each group.--Mike Sorensen 13:39, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
Okay. I'm not sure though if what you want really should go in one article. Keep in mind that this article needs only cover facts in so far as they are relevant to Nigeria. Some background articles already exist (such as Niger-Congo languages, Benue-Congo languages, Yoruboid languages, Igboid languages, Chadic languages, Tivoid languages) and there is no need to repeat everything that is in those articles just because some of these languages are spoken in Nigeria.
As with any good article, the challenge lies in being not too specific on the one hand, and not too broad at the same time. More specifity belongs to articles on individual languages and language groups; and more generality belongs to articles like African languages and language politics. This article, therefore, should primarily focus on the language situation of Nigeria. If you want to describe individual languages and groups of languages, you'd be better of writing separate articles first (preferably using good printed sources, as there tends to be a lack of good online materials on these languages). — mark ✎ 14:32, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Language policy & planning?

In general, when I look at "Languages in ..." pages I think in terms of describing policies as well as the languages. This is already a pretty well worked on article with a lot of material that could expand well beyond its current size just on the descriptive material (due of course to the tremendous linguistic diversity - comparable to Languages of Indonesia in population and language number, though this article is better developed). So I thought I'd ask first what others' thoughts were on whether this topic should go on the Languages in Nigeria page or into a new article? There is a lot to say in that area too, esp. in light of possibilities opened by ICT as well as discussions of bilingual education approaches. --A12n 00:20, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

I Agree with you. I also think that all respective languages of Nigeria should be listed somewhere else and eventually each one of them should receive its own page. The linguistic diversity of Nigeria is tremendous and cultural heritage is also amazing. In some regions neighboring villages speak languages that differ so much that they can't communicate with each other except in English.--Mike Sorensen 07:33, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Moved the list of languages of Nigeria to a new article List of languages of Nigeria

This will allow for a full list of languages of Nigeria without disrupting this article.--Mike Sorensen 08:35, 21 March 2007 (UTC)