Talk:Lam Tin

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Good article Lam Tin has been listed as one of the Geography and places good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can delist it, or ask for a reassessment.
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Hong Kong To-do:
edit purge
  • Clean up all MTR station pages. They are literally all over the place. Two model pages are Tsing Yi Station and Sheung Shui Station. They each describe a feature special to the station, Station layout, exit, and connections, as well as neighbouring stations and the station "box".
    • We will also need plenty of updated pictures (e.g. removing all KCR-related images except those on the KCR article). Check that all pages have basically the same language structure as Tsing Yi Station and Sheung Shui Station. Links to location maps are good too. (Should also perform these checks on Chinese Wikipedia.)
  • Clean-up pages that link with TVB, especially its series pages.
To-do list for Lam Tin: edit · history · watch · refresh

Here are some tasks you can do:
  • Requests: Schools in Lam Tin
  • Cleanup: the whole article's language
  • Expand: the intro, infobox
  • Stubs: Many many other locations, which don't have articles, are mentioned in this article. Create articles about them and make them DYKs!
  • Update: Transport routes, residential estate list
  • Other: Find the population, land area and pop. density of Lam Tin, preferably with sources

Contents

[edit] Copyright violation?

About the image Image:Lam Tin not shaded.jpg. Hong Kong Guide 2005 (Survey & Mapping Office, Hong Kong government) is not published under crown copyright. (ISBN: 962-567-141-2). The copyright page states that copyright reserved - reproduction by permission only. — HenryLi (Talk) 11:22, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Congratulations

Congrats for making this article longer than 20kB. Continue. --Deryck C. 06:27, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] thoughts on intro

Hello, I thought I should mention some thoughts about the introduction. I've never been to Hong Kong, so I'm guessing at what I'm writing. I think the intro should ideally touch upon what makes Lam Tin unique, without dwelling too much on any one topic. I get the impression that Lam Tin is distinguished by the transport interchanges that are located there. At the same time, I don't think there's any need to elaborate further on them, unless you feel that it is of global and not regional interest. One thing that I think is missing is more stuff about the demographics: is Lam Tin richer/poorer/the same as other areas of Hong Kong? Is the population there older/younger/the same as elsewhere? Other thoughts: are there any unique tourist attractions there, particularly anything that would be worth writing an article about? Is Lam Tin dominated by large residential buildings, or single-family homes, or a mix of the two? --Kyoko 20:05, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA fail

Currently, this numbered list is used as a strike-out itinerary. --Deryck C. 11:10, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

The article is quite good, but these need fixing:

  1. The lists should either be removed, made into prose, or be given their own articles.
  2. The layouts need fixing in the 'Highway and road surface' and 'MTR' sections.
  3. Common words do not need wikilinking, including 'salt', 'agriculture', 'household', 'football field', 'rubbish', 'pirate', 'carpark', 'playground' and 'electricity'.
  4. The only dates that need linking are ones that have the day, month & year or have the day & month. Years on their own and decades don't need linking.
  5. "Currently, in Lam Tin, there are 5 bus terminals" - the word "currently" can be removed. It's meaningless as readers don't know when the sentence was written.
  6. The retrieved dates in the footnotes need to be wikilinked.
  7. The foreign language footnotes need to indicate which language the source is in.
  8. "Politically, Lam Tin is the name of a constituency of Kwun Tong District" - "Lam Tin" shouldn't be in italics.
  9. "(also So Mau Ping 蘇茅坪; now renamed Sau Mau Ping 秀茂坪, lit. nice and prosperous with similar Cantonese pronunciation due to taboos)" - I think this can be removed, and So Mo Ping can be linked to Sau Mau Ping. So Mo Ping shouldn't be in italics.
  10. "Ham Tin was renamed Lam Tin" - Lam Tin shouldn't be in italics.
  11. Could "Chinese miles" be wikilinked?
  12. "Lam Tin Hill, geologically made up of subcircular leucocratic monzogranite intrusions, was blasted in the middle to create a pathway." - this is difficult to understand. "Subcircular leucocratic monzogranite" is too technical. What are intrusions? Has the centre of the hill been exploded?
  13. The transport section overuses the word "outlet". This is not a common term and roads are also inlets.
  14. "Kwun Tong Station. A train parking space, which spawned from behind Kwun Tong Station." - needs fixing.
  15. "Now, Lam Tin is on Kwun Tong Line" - "the" should be added before "Kwun Tong Line"
  16. "Blocks 1 to 15 towers of Lam Tin Estate" - difficult to understand
  17. "types 3 and 4 public housing buildings" - what are these? - reworded the passage to become more coherent Deryck C. 09:13, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
  18. The Lam Tin Estate section goes into too much detail considering that it no longer exists.
  19. "there is a number of private recreational facilities in the district." - is → are
  20. These need inline citations:
    "Most granite rock in Lam Tin is medium-grained. The granite in Lam Tin is of the Lion Rock suite."
    "the name Lam Tin usually meant a bigger area which includes nine constituencies of Kwun Tong District"
    "Lam Tin was first settled around the 9th century BC by the Nan Yue people."
    "The salt-fields were first officially operated by the Song Dynasty in 1163."
    "In 1662, Emperor Kangxi moved all residents along southern China coastline inland by 50 Chinese miles"
    "The new MTR station, opened in November 8, 1989, caused an influx of population into Lam Tin."
    "The first bus terminus built in Lam Tin was then called Lam Tin Bus Terminus"
    "As a result, the terminus got a common name "Tak Tin Bus Terminus"."
    "Kwun Tong Pier and Lei Yue Mun Pier, which are both within 15 minutes' walk from Lam Tin"
    "Residents prefer using the cross-harbour tunnel buses and MTR instead of ships as means of transport as a result."
    "The estate was built ... to settle the influx of mainland immigrants."
    "In the late 1980s, private residential buildings first developed in the district."
    "They were developed into Laguna City and Sceneway Garden respectively."
    "Ko Chun Court and Ko Yee Estate in Yau Tong and Ma Yau Tong Village in Tiu Keng Leng are sometimes considered part of Lam Tin."
    "It aims to serve the fast-growing needs of the Lam Tin community."
    "A final capping layer was added to prevent leakage; a landfill gas control system was used to deploy methane from the decomposed rubbish as fuel, and a leachate management system was built to collect leachate for further processing."
    "The recreation ground started its operation in April 30, 2004."
    "The tap water is piped either from surface water or Dongjiang River into two service reservoirs"
    "Approximately 1.6 million tonnes of domestic waste and commercial waste were dumped in the site during its four-year operation. The disposed rubbish stacked up to 65 metres high."
    "Sai Tso Wan Landfill was later rebuilt into Sai Tso Wan Recreation Ground."
    "rubbish from Lam Tin is first transferred to a treatment plant in Kowloon Bay where it is compressed, and then to New Territories Southeast Landfill "

This is not part of the GA review but English sources are preferable to foreign language ones. Epbr123 10:17, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Concerning the layout... Where does the problem lie? (is it a problem with IE again?) It looks perfect when viewed with Firefox 2.0. --Deryck C.review my hometown! 10:33, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
Viewing with IE, there are large gaps between the headings and the text. I tried to fix it but one of the images will need to be removed first. Epbr123 13:26, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

The best way to mitigate these IE problems with images is really to just reduce the number of images. I use IE and I can try to fix it by doing that, if you don't mind. As the article currently stands, it can lose a few images and still wouldn't be lacking in images. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 15:58, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I have delinked the common words in the article. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 16:05, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

I got rid of the bit about Lam Tin Hill being "subcircular leucocratic monzogranite intrusions", to just say that Lam Tin Hill was blasted. But further text might need to be included to introduce Lam Tin Hill in the content in the first place. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 21:58, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Lam Tin Hill should get a mention in the geography section, and to remove the technicality, the meaning of the kind of rock could be explained. "Intrusions" means that the molten material forming the rock was pushed in from elsewhere. Leucocratic means that it is white. I am guessing that "subcircular" is refering to the shape of the intrusions - roughly circular. "Monzogranite" has its own article, it means a granite that contains biotite so this rock will appear pale with black flecks. GB 00:20, 4 June 2007 (UTC)


The gaps can easily be fixed by having the codes of all images line up together, but doing so will cause images go under the wrong sections. The number of images should depend on the amount of text of the related paragraph, and sometimes having images on the left side will avoid these gaps. I think one of the bus terminus images can be removed, and Lam Tin Kwun Tong Bypass.jpg might not be needed either. Ian Kiu 00:04, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lists in this article

I have to say I don't absolutely agree with the suggestion that the lists in this article "should either be removed, made into prose, or be given their own articles." I don't know if they're notable enough on their own to garner their own articles, and turning them into prose would make them more difficult to read, given that the article does not, and probably need not, offer more information for each individual listing. Is there anything in WP:MOS that's relevant to this issue? Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 21:53, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

I've read through WP:LIST and WP:EMBED. Indeed, the guideline does not enforce the indiscriminate removal or rewriting of lists; it just suggests that prose is better than list whenever prose is a better presentation. Given the situation of this article, the embedded lists should stay. --Deryck C. 09:11, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
Well, I think if we plan to offer more information for each item on the list, then prose might be better. Otherwise, the list is long enough that just turning what's there into prose would basically read something like "J14 Hing Tin (興田), J15 Tak Tin (德田), J16 Lam Tin (藍田), J17 Kwong Tak (廣德), J18 Ping Tin (平田), J19 Hong Pak (康柏), J21 Yau Tong Sze Shan West (油塘四山西), J22 Lai Kong (麗港), J23 King Tin (景田)", which is not really as readable as putting them in a list. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 15:55, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
We can add the areas contained by the constituencies, but even that's the case bulleted sentences are preferable over complete prose in terms of readability. --Deryck C. 14:59, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Work towards a re-nom

Basically all the requirements of the previous GA reviewer were fulfilled. First, Lam Tin Estate, though already demolished, deserves this much mention because it was the thing that made the whole district be named "Lam Tin". Second, no guideline demand the complete removal of lists, especially when embedded lists are more preferable than prose, which is the case of this article.

Just one item remaining - the layout fix. Using Firefox, I think I'm not able to do anything. I hope somebody would help me fix that, and then put the article up for GA review again. --Deryck C. 09:16, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Format and images

I've removed some images and re-positioned others to try to fix the format issues that appear on IE. Please feel free to revert if I've removed too many images or if it screwed up the way the article looks on your own browser. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 15:48, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

It's okay. Those removed images are not of really high quality, and the number of image in the article now is still abundant. --Deryck C. 16:17, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

I have just viewed the article using IE7 and cannot see any problems with its appearance. (You can view a page using IE inside Firefox, with an extension.) Resurgent insurgent 01:45, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Qigong has done much to make up the format of the article so that it looks alright in IE. Thanks to his effort, things are now okay. If you really want to view with IE, you might see the problem in the older versions of this article. --Deryck C. 14:57, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA Review

Its obvious that a lot of work was put into this entry, and the result is of high quality. There are a few issues I've noticed that would need to be addressed prior to promotion though:

  • It may seem simple to those familiar with Hong Kong, but a brief explanation of the term "estate" as used here would be helpful
    • I think I found a better link - what do you think? TewfikTalk 18:38, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
      • Yes that's better indeed. I didn't find this page when I used the Wikipedia Search button. --Deryck C. 02:18, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
  • I'm not familiar with the area, so I couldn't make repairs, but it would be helpful if someone could rewrite the language in the Highway and road surface section, especially the bit about roads that did and didn't serve the district
  • I'd like to see the wikification of technical terms like flyover and interchange (or even "waste-car dump-site") when used
    • A few instances have been linked, each to a different target. Linking to more would probably be overlinking. Also thanks for the link to wrecking yard. --Deryck C. 02:18, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Some wikilinks lead to disambiguation pages
    • There should be no more now. --Deryck C. 09:16, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Perhaps explain the reasoning for demolition of the Lam Tin Estate
  • Sentence structure in that section should be reworked (why is 'luxury' contrasted with 'fostering close relationships'?)
  • "Podium" should be linked to a term describing its meaning in this architectural sense Not what I intended, but o suppose it works. TewfikTalk 18:38, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
  • I apologise if I missed it, but why is it important to notice Lin Tak Road northbound's position relative to nearby structures?
    • Still not sure I appreciate the relevance. TewfikTalk 18:38, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
      • I've rewritten the caption - see if the new one is better. --Deryck C. 02:18, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
  • "subcircular leucocratic monzogranite" could still be integrated; I believe the issue noted was only the awkwardness of the structure, though the relevance of the excavation should be expanded upon (per GB's comment at 00:20, 4 June 2007)

Please drop a message on my Talk when you address these points, or if you want me to clarify, or if you disagree ;-) Cheers, TewfikTalk 05:24, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

I think this is just about ready for promotion. I just need to proofread it as some of the English is choppy, and I'll do so shortly. Good work, TewfikTalk 07:37, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

I've promoted this, but there are a few more points that could be clarified:

  • "which attracted much attention to nearby residents" why is this important?
  • feet should be converted to metres, or there should at least be a consistent side by side
  • I changed "soccer" to "football", but if the former is more commonly used in HK, by all means change it back

I never thought the job of reviewing would be this involved, but I was glad to work with you. Cheers, TewfikTalk 04:03, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA on hold

This article has been reviewed as part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles/Project quality task force in an effort to ensure all listed Good articles continue to meet the Good article criteria. In reviewing the article, I have found that these statements require inline citations:

    • "In 1989 Eastern Harbour Crossing and Kwun Tong Bypass were completed."
Y Done Turns out Kwun Tong Bypass was completed in 1991 so I modified the sentence and gave reference to both parts. OhanaUnitedTalk page 15:46, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
    • "As part of the Tseung Kwan O Line project, Kwun Tong line was briefly extended to North Point on 27 September 2001 but soon diverted to Tiu Keng Leng when the Tseung Kwan O Line opened in August 18, 2002."
Y Done Referenced. OhanaUnitedTalk page 15:46, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
    • "Between 1989 to 1992, Lam Tin MTR Station, Laguna City and Pik Wan Road were built."
Y Done Also referenced. OhanaUnitedTalk page 15:46, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
    • "Blocks 1 to 15 of Lam Tin Estate were built between 1962 and 1965 as types 3 and 4 public housing buildings (第三及四型公屋); the other 9 towers were built between 1969 and 1975 as type 6 public housing buildings (第六型公屋). There was no Block 9, leaving the number of buildings in Lam Tin Estate at 23."
This is a tough cookie, really hard to find reference because it invovles 3 different types of public housing. I'll keep looking for it. OhanaUnitedTalk page 15:46, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
Y Done Found it. It's in chinese but the reference is correct. OhanaUnitedTalk page 15:58, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

I will check back in no less than seven days. If progress is being made and issues are addressed, the article will remain listed as a Good article. Otherwise, it may be delisted (such a decision may be challenged through WP:GA/R). If improved after it has been delisted, it may be nominated at WP:GAC. Feel free to drop a message on my talk page if you have any questions. Regards, Epbr123 14:33, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA Pass

This article has been reviewed as part of Wikipedia:WikiProject Good articles/Project quality task force. I believe the article currently meets the criteria and should remain listed as a Good article. The article history has been updated to reflect this review. Regards, Epbr123 16:20, 17 September 2007 (UTC)