Talk:Lake Sevan
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[edit] Comment
Lake Sevan, formerly known as Gegham in ancient times, was never referred to as Gokcha (or Goktscha) by the inhabitants of Armenia. Gokcha is an informal name given by non-Armenians and is not recognized in any official manner. --4.42.6.234 22:11, 11 July 2005
- Yes, Gokcha is the Turkish name for the lake, never used by Armenians themselves. However, the name was prominent enough to appear in numerous English, German and Russian literature, historic texts and maps. For example, a species of fish endemic to the lake was named the "Gokcha barbel", with the binomial name Barbus goktschaicus, these names remaining official to this day [1]. Overall, there is enough usage of the term in Western languages to justifiy a mention in an English encyclopaedia article. Even the Great Soviet Encyclopedia lists Gokcha as an alternate name [2]. --Aramգուտանգ 13:57, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
I'm sure everything in the Great Soviet Encyclopeadia is absolutely historically accurate. Lake Sevan was known by many other names as well, especially in ancient Greek and Roman sources. If we were to mention the name of the lake in every source one encounters, the whole page would be filled with former Sevan names. If we're going down that road, we might as well refer to every place-name with a Turkish name that's referenced in sources. Also, just because a species of animal is named a certain way, does not validate it's common use. Finally, because of the insistence of so many to call Sevan by its non-Armenian name Gokcha, the new Google World service (3D maps of the world) has mistakenly referred to Sevan as Gokcha. --4.42.6.234 18:21, 12 July 2005
- Since this is an English encyclopaedia article, it should list any alternate names that have a reasonably high rate of occurence in English language sources, irrespective of their official status. The fact that even Google mistakenly uses the term Gokcha shows that there is reasonable likelyhood that someone will look up the lake in an encyclopaedia using the name. The fact that it's mentioned in the article helps people recognise that it is not the official name, rather than be confused by its absence. P.S. Plase sign your posts in the future by typing ~~~~. Thanks.--Aramգուտանգ 04:49, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Geycha
I added the rendering "Geycha" because someone used it in the article Siunik. -- Beland 15:08, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] The Azeri name
I don't quite follow your logic, Hakob. I see the Armenian name at Kars, Van, Diyarbakır, Yozgat, and even İzmir—all of those cities are situated in the Republic of Turkey, so are they unnecessary as well? I don't recall their being a Wikipedia rule that states historical names can't be mentioned in articles. —Khoikhoi 01:44, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
Lake Sevan was never part of Turkey or Azerbaijan. History shows this. Therefore, the names should not be included. Names in other languages should only be applied if a certain region was part of country at one point. -- Clevelander 23:28, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
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- We surely do not follow THIS rule when we use names such as Leghorn for Livorno or Cologne for Köln or Moscow for Moskwa.Cosal 01:20, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
- I'm sorry, my mistake. I didn't mean to say "place names," I was thinking of something else. It's fixed now, though. -- Clevelander 01:38, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
- So we should also remove the Armenian names from Rize and İzmir? They were never part of Armenia —Khoikhoi 01:45, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
- Rize was part of Byzantine Armenia and Lesser Armenia (not to be confused with the Armenian Kingdom of Cilicia). The present-day Rize province even includes the Hemşin (or Hamshen) region where the Hamsheni Armenians orginated from. You're right about İzmir, though. It was never part of Armenia. Its only significance to Armenian history was its noteworthy Armenian population which greatly contributed to Western Armenian culture. -- Clevelander 01:52, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
- Ah, I didn't know that. My point is that there is no rule for including or not including historic/alternate names. —Khoikhoi 02:08, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
- I see where you're coming from now. -- Clevelander 02:11, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
- Ah, I didn't know that. My point is that there is no rule for including or not including historic/alternate names. —Khoikhoi 02:08, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
- Rize was part of Byzantine Armenia and Lesser Armenia (not to be confused with the Armenian Kingdom of Cilicia). The present-day Rize province even includes the Hemşin (or Hamshen) region where the Hamsheni Armenians orginated from. You're right about İzmir, though. It was never part of Armenia. Its only significance to Armenian history was its noteworthy Armenian population which greatly contributed to Western Armenian culture. -- Clevelander 01:52, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
- So we should also remove the Armenian names from Rize and İzmir? They were never part of Armenia —Khoikhoi 01:45, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
- I'm sorry, my mistake. I didn't mean to say "place names," I was thinking of something else. It's fixed now, though. -- Clevelander 01:38, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
- We surely do not follow THIS rule when we use names such as Leghorn for Livorno or Cologne for Köln or Moscow for Moskwa.Cosal 01:20, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Gokcha
The article states that Gokcha was a former name. Shouldn't it be changed to alternative name? Correct me if I'm wrong. Vartanm 03:04, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
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- I added 4 references to the name of lake being Gokcha. In light of magnitude of references on Google and JSTOR using this historical name, it should be kept where it is, instead of removing it. Sevan name of the lake was only on the maps in 20th century. Atabek 07:15, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
hmm, I may have been wrong on Gokcha. I simply editted a little, took out 2 sources and removed the Goycha spelling, as it's hits are almost exclusively Azeri sites dealing with claiming this land, and the spelling was not used previously.Hetoum I 03:19, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
I removed the Azeri language template from the name Gokcha. It was the name applied by Turkic invaders to the Gegham Sea. Modern inhabitants of Azerbaijan got nothing to do with it.-- Ευπάτωρ Talk!! 15:34, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
