Talk:Lake Baikal

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[edit] comment

what happend to the lake baikal

No worries, it's still here! 71.65.54.92 20:13, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Biodiversity Discrepancies

"Baikal is home to more than 1,700 species of plants and animals, two thirds of which can be found nowhere else in the world" "Lake Baikal hosts 1,085 species of plants and 1,550 species and varieties of animals. Over 80% of animals are endemic."

The former is cited and in the intro; the latter is uncited and in the Geography and hydrography section. Can anybody clarify? Mouse (talk) 16:04, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Confusing

"At 1,637 meters (5,371 ft) with its body 1,285 meters (4,216 ft) below sea level, Lake Baikal is the deepest lake in the world by over 500 feet.["

Shouldn't the first numbers have 'deep' after them? And what do the second set of numbers mean? "Its body" is a thousand meters below sea level? Does that mean it extends that far? GeneCallahan 11:07, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

The writer meant that since the surface of the lake is 456 m above sea level, the deepest point in the lake is 1,285 m below sea level. But since that point is made in the following section and doesn't seem to be a particularly "vital" statistic, I eliminated it from the intro. Best, Eliezg 01:38, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed changes

This article includes all measurements in both kilometers and miles. For more standard internationalization, it should include information only in kilometers. Marcos Juárez 19:05, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

That goes against Wikipedia's Manual of Style for units of measurement. We need to have both included in the article, otherwise we Americans will get confused. --Lethargy 01:22, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Because the lake is so large in surface area, you should also provide information about which place to visit the see the best part of the lake.

  • 1) This part is strange: In Russian, it is traditionally called a sea: О́зеро Байка́л (Ozero Baykal), and in the Buryat and Mongol languages it is called Dalai-Nor, or "Sacred Sea".

I've never heard it called a sea in Russian, and in any case, "озеро" means "lake".Palefire 09:30, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

  • I can see maybe because maybe "Dalai-Nor" (actually Nuur and Dalai meaning ocean or sea) is not a literal translation of Baigal Nuur (Baigal meaning nature). Sacred Sea is more of a figurative definition because most Mongolian's won't refer to it as sacred but it's esteemed as such. If that makes sense.

The following points were suggested by me, Em3rald, a new user. I do not have reliable references for this information, so I am hesitant to post it in the actual article. If I have time today, I will find what I can to cross-reference within the Wikipedia (such as specific fish species, etc).

  • 1) More information (or at least an internal wiki link) should be added referring to the lake being a central crossroads for 2 old cultures: Sayats and Buryats. 09:30, 29 March 2006 (MST)
  • 2) Should add a reference to location: 51 29'N and 55 46'N latitude and 103 41'E and 109 57'E longitude. 09:30, 29 March 2006 (MST).
  • 3) Some information regarding the topographics of it's floor should be included. This article doesn't touch this yet, so it almost seems like the lake is uniformly "V" shaped, which it is not. It has 3 underwater holes or depressions: South, Middle, and North. As well, some reference to the Academic Mountain Ridge which also adds character to the lake bottom. 09:40, 29 March 2006 (MST).
  • 4) Some information regarding ice formation in winter should be included. In this article as it stands, one might think the ice blankets it 100%. I don't know if this is true, I believe ice only covers the bays and shallows. Some unofficial reference I have mention the ice reaches 1 metre thick (which is apparently not very thick for lake ice?). Plus average temperatures and related information seems valuable to this article. 09:45, 29 March 2006 (MST).
  • 5) A photo of the Nerpa would REALLY be an asset to this article, but I am too unsure of copyright infringement to confidently link any images. I guess I have to go read the rules and guidelines with image posting in mind. 09:45, 29 March 2006 (MST).
  • 6) More information regarding the fish indiginous to the lake would be good. For example, the 20 some odd species of Gobi, the rare Golomyanka, and other more common fish species. I suppose it would be easy to cross-link these to and from other wikipedia files. Also, crayfish and other related organisms and their impact on the lake as an ecosystem. 09:50, 29 March 2006 (MST).
  • 6A) I seem to recall that there is a species of fresh water dolphin endemic to this lake. The article mentions the Baikal Seal as the only mammal.
  • 7) Information regarding the Irkutsk Dam and it's impact on the lake should be included, such as damage to the Omul population (more and smaller), the Baikal Bullhead (fewer and less robust), and overall water level. 09:55, 29 March 2006 (MST)
  • 8) History: Atsagat datsan (Buddhist Temple), Ghengis Khan, Fortresses, etc.

That's it. I appologize if I am not following specific posting structures ... I am still unfamiliar with the editing procedure. -Em3rald 17:02, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What improvements are needed?

If anyone knows of improvements that are needed, please add them to the to-do list so we can focus our efforts. --Lethargy 01:36, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tried to make citation method consistent per tag at top of article

I tried to fix it all up. One link did not work, so I commented it out in the code -- it is still there but hidden. I couldn't figure out where the links under References went. I put a few in the article but I was not convident about placement. Therefore, I left the whole list intact under References, even though I converted the first three to the Notes format. Please contact me about any problems or anything you want me to fix. Thanks! Mattisse(talk) 01:30, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A few inconsistencies

In the second paragraph is states that Lake Baikal is the oldest lake in the world, while later it lists its age at 25-30 million years. However, in the article on the Caspian Sea it lists the age of that "lake" as 30 million years old. Perhaps it should be changed to "one of the oldest".

Also, later in the 2nd paragraph, it states that "Olkhon, by far the largest island in Lake Baikal, is the largest lake-bound island in the world.". However, it you check the article in Manitoulin Island in Lake Huron, you will see that Manitoulin is a much larger island.

Is that all verified with reliable sources, though? --Lethargy 21:31, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sediment

What is the meaning/significance of this statement? If all the sediment were scoured from the lake, the water from above would replace the scoured sediment so the depth of the lake itself would not change.

I'm confused. Unschool 19:01, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Meaning of the Name

I heard once that Bay-kal actually means big lake in Turkish and it makes sense. Can someone familiar with Turkic languages confirm this? 85.99.161.82 09:04, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Not the Largest lake on Earth by Area

Lake Superior covers the most area at 82,4142. Lake Baikal is approx 31,5002. I updated the sentence that said it was largest by area and volume to mention only volume.

[edit] References

Some references are old and doesn't exists (12 and 13)... 85.255.56.131 08:50, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Confusing passage

The section on geography and hydrography includes this passage:

The lake is completely surrounded by mountains. the Baikal Mountains on the north shore and taiga, is technically protected as a national park and contains 22 small islands, the largest, Olkhon (also spelled 'Olchon'), being 72km long.

This needs help. The period after "mountains" is apparently misplaced but I'm not sure what's intended. It's completely surrounded by mountains, those on the north shore being called the Baikal Mountains and the others not being specified? There's taiga everywhere or just on the north shore? Is it just the lake that's protected as a national park, or part of the shore as well? (and maybe information about its legal status doesn't belong in this section at all) What does "technically protected" mean? There's a law on the books but some reliable source asserts that it's routinely overlooked? JamesMLane t c 16:19, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

How come it doesn't have the fact that the lake is a gift from Mongolia??? --Alien Mahar 12:37, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dalai nuur

I think Mongolians call the lake Baigal Dalai. See also map no. 15 at http://mongol.tufs.ac.jp/landmaps/ (the full map takes a while to load, and is in Monggol bichig). The most well-known Dalai nuur is in northeastern Inner Mongolia, a.k.a. Hulun nuur. Yaan (talk) 15:35, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

P.S. My Russian is rather bad, but maybe someone could ask this question at Russian WP? Yaan (talk) 15:44, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
The Russian article has a brief section on possible sources for the name. There appears to be no consensus, but the following hypotheses are listed:
  • Bai-Kul (Turkic) — Rich Lake;
  • Baigal Dalai (Mongolian) — Rich Fire;
  • Baigaal Nuur (Buryat) — lake Baigaal - with the origin of the Buryat "Baigaal" unknown;
  • Bei-Hai (Chinese) — North Sea
It says further that the first Russian explorers referred to it by the Even name "Lamu" (sea), but by the second half of the 17th century, they had adopted the Buryat "Baigaal" - hardening the "g" into a "k". The English came consequently from the Russian. There are unfortunately no sources given. Cheers, Eliezg (talk) 16:07, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
So, maybe asking the russians is not such a good idea. Dalai has nothing to do with fire, Dalai, as in Dalai Lama, means ocean. I also tend to think that in Mongolian, Baigal means Nature, and that the Buryat wort is probably cognate with the Mongolian one. edit: now I see that fire is meant to be the second syllabe of Baigal. In mongolian, fire is gal, and rich is bayan. I don't know if the bay stem can occur on its own. If it can, then the explanation actually would be somewhat misleading, but still make sense.
But what I am actually wondering is what is the correct Buryat name of the lake. The Mongolian name given in the intro to this article before my correction was, after all, wrong. Cheers, Yaan (talk) 16:15, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
I did some more research on Russian webspace, and if it makes you feel any better there is enough uncertainty about your question that a whole book has been written: "Gurulev, S.A. What is in your name Baikal? Novosibirsk: «Nauka» 1991. (in Russian)" The blurb about the book I found says:
The book explores names for Lake Baikal that were used by many peoples - Lamu, Beihai, Tengis, Dalai, Baigal, Baikal and others. The most mysterious of these is "Baigal". For the explanation of its roots name versions are proposed: chinese, dinlino-ketski, ancient turkic, buryat, yakut, arabic, tibetan. The most likely origins seem the Buryat and Yakut, in which the search for the roots of "Baigal" take place. Myths, legends, songs, heroic eposes, history, ethnogenesis and anthropology of the Buryat and Yakut are explored in the process.
Sounds like a fascinating read, unfortunately, I don't believe it's translated. But it also sounds like there's no easy answer to your question. Best, Eliezg (talk) 16:50, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
Thanks a lot for that, but actually, I think there should be an easy answer to my question: How do Buryats call the lake ? Baikal nuur or Dalai nuur or Baikal dalai, or something yet different ? I don't really care what the name means, I only want to know (with source, if possible), what the name is :-) . Regards, Yaan (talk) 16:58, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
Oh, OK. Yeah, ordering that book from the Ulan Ude library would probably be overkill :). In Buryat, they call it Baigal Nuur (Байгал Нуур). here's an official Buryat language government page for confirmation: http://egov-buryatia.ru/bur/about/baikal/ - Eliezg (talk) 17:27, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
Cool, I feel like I could read it if my mongolian was better. Thanks a lot, Yaan (talk) 17:48, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
In Mongolian the name of the lake Байгал and the word for nature байгаль are spelt differently with the softening sign "ь" in the latter. This means these are different words by etymology. Guess байгаль for nature was loaned from Sanscrit like бодьгаль (bodhigali), maybe not. Perhaps the Gökturks called the lake something like Bay Göl. Then the Mongolic tribes came back, and later devt of vowel harmony in their language made it Baigal. Gantuya eng (talk) 14:06, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Baikal Neutrino Telescope

In my opinion, a reference to the Baikal Neutrino Telescope should be added, which is located in the deep waters of the lake and which has been operating for quite some time already, producing interesting physics results.

Unfortunately, I am too lazy to do this now so perhaps somebody volunteers ? GenghisDon (talk) 13:15, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] link to external photo of area

I see there are no External links so I did not add it. Just though I would add it here, in case anyone wanted to see a wonderful overview of the terrain. (Perhaps you already know about it.) [1] Regards, Mattisse 15:34, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Global Warming

Global warming scare: http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2008/05/the-worlds-larg.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by Altonbr (talk • contribs) 18:14, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] More than the Great Lakes or more than "all the great lakes"?

It's famous for holding a volume of water larger than that of all the great lakes combined.

The citations for this statement seem to me to suggest that Baikal has more volume than the North American Great Lakes, but does Baikal actually hold more water than all the world's "great lakes" (including, for example, the African Great Lakes), as the sentence above implies? Camillus 23:47, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

The text refers almost certainly to the North American Great Lakes, and I removed the ambiguity accordingly. Cheers, Eliezg (talk) 05:09, 9 June 2008 (UTC).

[edit] Snippet

Also, I removed the following snippet:

Although there were muted protests, a wood pulp and cellulose processing plant was built at the south end of the lake (at Baykalsk). The plant still pours industrial effluent into Baikal's waters. The overall impacts of watershed pollution on Baikal and similar watersheds are studied annually by the Tahoe-Baikal Institute,[1] an exchange program between U.S., Russian, and Mongolian scientists and university graduate students started in 1990.

mostly because the material about the pulp-mill is covered elsewhere and the Tahoe-Baikal reference is borderline spammy, in in either case it didn't really belong in the "Geography" section. But if anyone wants to revive it, there it is. Best, Eliezg (talk) 05:09, 9 June 2008 (UTC)