Talk:Lacrosse

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Sports To-do: edit  Here are some tasks you can do: Requests: Average (sports) (crucial article explaining the concept, nomenclature, math; redir to it from Average (sport); use Batting average as starting point for ideas) Cleanup: Sport governing body (this should-be-major article is in a shameful state) Field hockey (History section needs sources and accurate information - very vague at the moment.) Other: Assess: newly added and existing articles, maybe nominate some good B-class articles for GA; independently assess some as A-class, regardless of GA status. Split: Cross-training into Cross-training and Cross-training (business); Hockey puck into Puck (sports) (w/ Puck (sport) redir) and Hockey puck (and update Puck DAB page); Swimming into Swimming (general activity) and Swimming (sport) (eventually create subarticles for varieties) Categorize: Gather all (major/olympic) sports to be part of this project Photographs for pages listed in Wikipedia:Requested pictures/Society#Sport and referenced categories.

This article is part of the "Olympic events" set of articles nominated for Version 0.7. Discuss this nomination, or see the set nominations page for more details.

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Article milestones Date Process Result May 11, 2006 Good article nominee Not listed March 22, 2007 Good article nominee Not listed Current Status: Former good article nominee

To-do list for Lacrosse:	edit · history · watch · refresh
Add references and citations General cleanup Represent a world-wide view References themselves should be formatted consistently Some thought should be given to organization One more copyedit run through with an eye to consistent prose Remove redundant information
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Archives

#September 2004–November 2006

Contents 1 Nomenclature: Field Lacrosse, Box Lacrosse, Indoor Lacrosse and Outdoor Lacrosse 2 Article Biases (Finland and the Irish) 3 Removed Unsupported Conjecture 4 A Note To Management 5 Box lacrosse 6 Introduction 7 Failed GA-review 8 Fighting? 9 Ojibwe name 10 List of Leagues 11 Title: Lacrosse vs. LaCrosse 12 The lenth of the lacrosse stick 13 Request for Comments 14 Lacrosse related deaths 15 Off-side / Positions 16 fighting 17 New team 18 Fastest growing sport in the United States? 19 "first used by the Pocahontas"? 20 two goalies? 21 Semi-protected 22 Women's Rules 23 Opening Paragraphs 24 Vandalism and Advertisements 25 Redundant Information 26 Pop Lacrosse 27 Lacrosse jargon 28 15th Century? 29 Defensive vs. Offensive Middies 30 Water lacrosse 31 Cost of Crosse

[edit] Nomenclature: Field Lacrosse, Box Lacrosse, Indoor Lacrosse and Outdoor Lacrosse

One aspect about this article that would be confusing to readers unfamiliar with lacrosse is the use of the terms; field lacrosse, box lacrosse, indoor lacrosse and outdoor lacrosse. The scattered use of these terms often makes references to the simple word "lacrosse" ambiguous. While I haven't come to a conclusion as to how to best handle this my initial thoughts are:

• The terms "field lacrosse" and "outdoor lacrosse" are synonymous. Perhaps this could be defined in one sentence. The term "field lacrosse" could be used in the remainder of the article as it is the more general term (field lacrosse can be played indoors i.e. Syracuse's Carrier Dome).

• The terms "Box Lacrosse" and "Indoor Lacrosse" are quite nearly synonomous. The only differences between box lacrosse and indoor lacrosse are that in indoor lacrosse:

   * there are four fifteen-minute quarters rather than three periods, and
   * solid wooden lacrosse sticks are not allowed.

Box lacrosse is the more general term and I suggest that it be used in all cases.

• Finally, with regards to the field/box lacrosse confusion there are a few ways to go;

   * 1. We could always specify explicitly "field lacrosse" or "box lacrosse" and never use the simple term "lacrosse".

   * 2. We could move all references to "box lacrosse" to it's own specialized article.

   * 3. We could define the use of the simple term "lacrosse" in this article to mean field lacrosse specifically.

   * 4. We could rearrange the references to "box lacrosse" such as to make the use of the term "lacrosse" less ambiguous.

After running through these options I am inclined to think that we should use a combination of all four. TR166ER (talk) 13:06, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Article Biases (Finland and the Irish)

I've been working on the article and have noticed some obvious biases in the way parts of the article have been written or more probably the way bits have been added to the article. Of minor note there was an over emphasis on lacrosse in Finland in the International Lacrosse section. The top picture of the article captioned "lacrosse being played in Finland" seems to be sufficient considering how little and for how short a period of time lacrosse has been played in Finland. On a slightly more significant note it seems that someone was trying to imply that Irish hurling was somehow lacrosse's predecessor. There is no such evidence for such a claim. One could conjecture that the sports, hurling and lacrosse, might be related based on structural similarities and relative geography but even if this was the case it could just as easily be that hurling is a derivative of lacrosse. Either way as I said before there is no evidence to support the claim and further there are no published sources that discuss the possibility.

I understand that people love lacrosse, are proud of their country and thus anxious to have a historical connection to the sport but distorting this article is not the way to go about establishing this. These things take time and need to be established elsewhere before becoming part of an encyclopedia. TR166ER (talk) 12:29, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Removed Unsupported Conjecture

I removed the following from the "History" section because it is tangential and because it is unsupported conjecture:

"Lacrosse is quite similar to the ancient Irish sport of Hurling except in Hurling players use a stick made of ash and no padding is worn. Since a significant number of Irish immigrants arrived in America in the 19th century it is likely they played a role in the evolution of the sport to its current form."

• Note that the author has capitalized "hurling" twice.

helmets are now being worn in hurling.Toyokuni3 (talk) 04:35, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

I also rewrote part of the history section dealing with the origins of the word "lacrosse" to accurately reflect the information provided by the source that was cited. Previously this had also contained conjecture on the part of the wikipedian. TR166ER (talk) 10:54, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] A Note To Management

I must regretfully inform you that I recently had to manually revert this page to the form it held before it was grievously vandalized with the following text:<BgfR> BRAD SISSON HAS A HUGE PENIS
I figured you might want to know about this and that the problem HAS been corrected.
Odin of Trondheim 20:29, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
A post-scripted note to management: It was someone who either did not have an account or was not logged in, but the IP address is in the history menu and is either one of the two beneath the edit I made before I thought to revert it. It really is a good page.

It seems like you are new to Wikipedia, but I thought you might want to know that this is fairly common and you do not need to leave a note when you revert vadalism. However, thanks for doing it this time! --Yarnalgo 00:38, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Box lacrosse

I think Box Lacrosse section should be renamed to "fake lacrosse" or "grass hockey" —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.167.219.97 (talk) 02:12, 10 March 2007 (UTC).

Given that box lacrosse is the most commonly played form at least in Canada, and is growing in popularity around the world, and fake lacrosse doesn't seem to be a defined term, I would disagree rather strongly with this suggestion Damien73 05:14, 4 April 2007 (UTC) DJ

[edit] Introduction

I would left out the number of players in the introduction. It is not important that there are 10,12 6 or what ever players on the pitch (in the little league there are 7....). 129.69.120.55kuni

Box Lacrosse does sound alot like field hockey or something stupid like that. I've been playing for a while and never heard of it? is it even real?(Drewmaff7 03:58, 23 October 2007 (UTC))

Lacrosse is the fastest growing collegiate sport. Mixed martial is number one in general.24.62.123.24 23:07, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Failed GA-review

There has been a major improvement in the depth of the article the last time the article was up for GA-status. It appears that the major reason it failed then was due to a lack of citations but this has only been partially rectified. Several sections have no citations at all and all but "Evolution of the Game" under undercited. This absolutely needs to be taken care of.

Governing Bodies - this is way too extensive. At least trim to National Bodies or create a new separtate List article.

In line external links should be converted to in-line references. There are a couple in International lacrosse.

References themselves should be formatted consistently (right now the list looks very cluttered).

See also section is much too long especially since you have a Lacrose category (2-3 is good, 5 max).

Some thought should be given to organization. Should Women's Lacrose follow right after Men's Lacrose. I have no real comment on the order just that it seemed a bit disjointed and a result of add-ons (what was written first).

Language is good but I suggest one more copyedit run through with an eye to consistent prose. Its always a problem with long articles.

The article really does have the necessary depth and of course lots of good pictures. Articles (ie. Sumo) were recently delisted because of similar citation problems. I will put this article on Hold for now rather than an outright fail.Peter Rehse 06:21, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Getting better, still would like to see more references and consistently entered references.Peter Rehse 00:16, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Failed primarily because of the reference issue but please refer to the above list.Peter Rehse 01:24, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fighting?

Should there be a section of this article about fighting? I read in a book I have about fighting in ice hockey that lacrosse is the only other sport where players are not outright ejected for fighting in organized play. --Mus Musculus 20:53, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Organized play at what level? In my experience, which is extensive, this is absolutely not the case. --TheyCallMeBruce

Well, one would be ejected for fighting in field lacrosse, but I think Mus Musculus' book was talking about box lacrosse, where fighting is a big aspect of it. --Yarnalgo _{talk to me} 05:03, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ojibwe name

Baaga'adowe is the verb form: "to play lacrosse" or "s/he plays lacrosse". Baaga'adowewin is then the noun form of the verb (with the nominalizer -win), "the game of lacrosse". So I guess it depends on which you'd prefer to go with; it seemed to me that those were meant to be translations of the concept of the game itself, thus a noun. But I'm not sure. And it's true that baaga'adowe is closer to the earlier spelling (which maybe reflected baaga'adowewag, "they play lacrosse", but I'm just guessing here). I don't even know what difference any of this makes. But I find this sort of stuff interesting, so whatever. --Miskwito 06:48, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

I guess baaga'adowewin would be right then, however the only reason I chose baaga'adowe is because that is very commonly known as like the native american word for lacrosse. Of course there were other languages, but this is the most known. --Yarnalgo _{talk to me} 22:54, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, if that's the case then I guess baaga'adowe is probably what the article should use. If it's given as the "Native American" name for lacrosse in many sources. --Miskwito 23:06, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] List of Leagues

A minor suggestion - add this list of leagues:

Damien73 05:32, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Title: Lacrosse vs. LaCrosse

I'd like to point out that when you search for "lacrosse", the top hit is capitalized as "LaCrosse", which is wrong. It also shows up a few results down by it's correct title, but maybe the weirdly capitalized one should be removed. Just a thought. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.111.63.240 (talk) 03:39, 6 April 2007 (UTC).

I changed the LaCrosse redirect to be to Lacrosse (disambiguation), which seems like a better target. If you search for LaCrosse, you're more likely to be looking for a town or the car, not the sport. Thanks --MrBoo (talk, contribs) 11:48, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The lenth of the lacrosse stick

I have been playing lacrosse for 7 year and have had 3 different all-american coaches. Lacrosse sticks can be 30" inches to about 72" inches no matter were u play except for goalie who can have a short 30" in. to about a 52" in, mabey more but not as long as a long pole. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.224.56.146 (talk) 01:37, 11 April 2007 (UTC).

I'm not sure where you are from but that is completely wrong. You may be thinking of just the shaft because the 40" or whatever lengths referenced here refer to the shaft+head. --Yarnalgo _{talk to me} 02:49, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

OOO i thought they were just refering to the shaft, they should really clarify that.

when i see inches i dont even rifer to the complete stick i think that most people would think of just the shaft. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.224.56.146 (talk • contribs) 17:34, May 13, 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Request for Comments

As stated above, the LaCrosse page currently redirects to Lacrosse. I changed it to redirect to Lacrosse (disambiguation), but then User:CharlotteWebb changed it back. In a conversation we had about it, she wrote

“

Redirecting to a disambiguation page would only make sense if the sport is moved to Lacrosse (sport). We're dealing with two nearly identical ways to write of the same French phrase with the same literal meaning. Why should titles like "Thestick" and "The Stick" point to different articles? You might have noticed that "Sandiego" redirects to San Diego, California to match the target of San Diego. It does not redirect to Carmen Sandiego, even though the latter name is the only case where "San Diego" is properly spelled as one word. Both forms, in literal Spanish, refer to James, son of Zebedee, and in figurative English, refer to a large city in the lower-left corner of the United States.

”

My point was that "Lacrosse" is not a French phrase, it's an English word (that derives from French). I believe that if someone enters "LaCrosse" (with a capital C) as a search (which is currently the only way to get to the redirect page, since no pages link to it), they are not likely looking for the sport, so sending them off to the disambig page makes more sense. Please vote below - use Keep to indicate that you think the redirect to Lacrosse should be kept, or Change to indicate that the redirect should point to the disambig page. Thanks --MrBoo (talk, contribs) 12:29, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Change --MrBoo (talk, contribs) 12:29, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Please see WP:DEMOCRACY. — CharlotteWebb 06:11, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Change - "LaCrosse" search not likely to be looking for the sport. But if so they are, easy to jump to it from the disam page. Mitico 17:04, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Search engines, including the one built-into the mediawiki software, and Google for that matter, are not case sensitive. How would you go about reading the mind of someone searches for "LACROSSE" in all capital letters? — CharlotteWebb 06:11, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

The "Go" button is case-sensitive, though. I agree that if someone types "LaCrosse", they are almost certainly not looking for the sport, and thus a redirect to the disambig page is appropriate. — Demong ^talk 05:27, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Change - LaCrosse is 90% of the time referring to the city. --Yarnalgo _{talk to me} 02:51, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Maybe "a city", but not any in particular. — CharlotteWebb 06:11, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't know why this is being discussed here, where the only people who will see it are probably fans of the sport. For that reason I doubt anyone here would agree with what I've been saying all along. Move this article to Lacrosse (sport) and move the disambiguation page to Lacrosse (with all other variations redirecting to it). I'd be more than willing to fix all the links. — CharlotteWebb 06:11, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

You will never succeed in moving it to Lacrosse (sport). Lacrosse is a very important subject and 95% of the time "lacrosse" means lacrosse, as in the sport. Do a Google, look at the number of references (pages in 'what links here'), look at anything, lacrosse beats out the other topics in importance and shouldn't be reduced to a parenthesis. Also, LaCrosse refers to one of the cities (usually Wisconsin). Bring it up in a separate community page if you want but it will have this result. --Yarnalgo _{talk to me} 23:48, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

P.S. This page has over 1500 other articles linking to it so you would have to fix a lot of links. --Yarnalgo _{talk to me} 23:52, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I am willing to do that. — CharlotteWebb 18:01, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Even if correct, your "95%" estimate would be meaningless, because the same number of search results would be generated regardless of capitalization, and would vary only slightly according to spacing. "Lacrosse" and "LaCrosse" produce identical results, with this article about the sport being, for me, ranked #2 either way. Add a space and this same article is #4. — CharlotteWebb 18:01, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

• Also I would like to direct everyone's attention to this list. I realize some people hate parentheses, but when the alternative is to depend on letter case, I believe it would be better to make the distinction between two or more articles more obvious. In fact if, for example, Gray wolf and Gray Wolf inherently pointed to the same URL, wherein the preferred capitalization could be manually specified, we would avoid the creation of accidental duplicate articles, and the need for such redirects (which are the usual method of avoiding awkward situations like that). — CharlotteWebb 18:12, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Lacrosse related deaths

What about a discussion of the dangers of the game and some of the recent deaths? Or a new page about it? --EPH82 11:05, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

see commotio cordisToyokuni3 (talk) 04:38, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

• Are there similar pages on other sports?--THE FOUNDERS INTENT ^TALK 02:29, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Off-side / Positions

The article correctly states the technical foul for off-side and denotes the position names. Unlike other sports, lacrosse has a restraining line with fixed numbers of players for each side. Perhaps, some mention could be made of the interchange of players across the restraining lines ( conforming to the established numbers ) to give a more fluid picture of the game.

JHU_bluejays —The preceding unsigned comment was added by JHU bluejays (talk • contribs) 12:58, 26 April 2007 (UTC).

By "interchange of players" do you mean, for example, a middie staying back so a defenseman can run the ball up the field? --Yarnalgo _{talk to me} 02:31, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

lacrosse is the best sport ever

[edit] fighting

yes thter should be fighting in lacrosse it's fun for the fans —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.47.38.128 (talk) 19:31, 3 May 2007 (UTC).

[edit] New team

Im starting a new lacrosse team and ive never played and i barely know anything about it. Any suggestions on drills or what to buy?72.87.43.57 21:03, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fastest growing sport in the United States?

That columnists in print sources would dub lacrosse the fastest growing sport in the United States does not, on its own, make the claim a fact, or even one worth quoting. While one could go about stating that X described the sport as the fastest growing..., simply quoting the most boldly favorable opinion or data available is a practice better suited for a press release, rather than an encyclopedia article. One can find legitimate sources giving the very same distinction of "fastest growing" in the US to sports such as NASCAR [1], UFC [2], paintball [3], and even bull riding [4]. None of these are worthy of mention in an encyclopedic medium where solid consensus opinion is sought.

The intro here would clearly be enhanced with a more general, unobjectionable statement (e.g., has grown in popularity; or has enjoyed rapid growth in popularity).

I adapted the statement (blandly) and kept the reference intact. Caeculus 05:42, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Found and added appropriate references to substantiate fastest-growing claim. Would still like to find the actual National Federation of State High School Associations fact statement. AlbertHall 18:37, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

I have subsituted your references for one reference that has both high school and college data: the 2007 US Lacrosse Participation Survey, which gets its information directly from the NFHS and NCAA participation surveys. --Yarnalgo _{talk to me} 23:26, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Great! Thanks. AlbertHall 21:29, 29 May 2007 (EDT)

[edit] "first used by the Pocahontas"?

I'm speaking total ignorance here, but this phrase from the "Evolution of the Game" section looks like somebody's prank to me. I've just Googled, and I didn't find any reference to Pocahontas as being the name of a cultural group in addition to the famous heroine. Dybryd 13:33, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] two goalies?

As far as i know the rules (mainly ILF rules) there is only one goalie allowed on the field. (one stik for the deignated goal keeper ...) other possitions are not forced by the rules .... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.69.120.55 (talk) 16:09, August 27, 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Semi-protected

FYI, I have requested that this page be semi-protected because of all the vandalism lately. This means that it cannot be edited by anonymous users nor by registered accounts less than four days old. The protection will last for one month. --MrBoo (talk, contribs) 18:53, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Turned on again. Vandals, do your mommies know that you're playing on the computer?--THE FOUNDERS INTENT ^TALK 15:46, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Women's Rules

The women's rules look USA-specific. The international rules [5] appear to be a bit different. Or am I reading the reference wrong? Peter Ballard 03:22, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Opening Paragraphs

I don't find the opening paragraphs terribly informative. From reading it, I know that it is played on a field of grass or artificial turf, played with teams of 10 and that players wear protective equipment, along with other things that should be left to the rest of the article. I have no clue what the aim of the game is and how the players score points (if they do at all). It doesn't even overtly tell me that the game is played with a stick!

I believe it should be be based along the lines of the Football (soccer) article. For example:

"Association football, commonly known as football or soccer, is a team sport played between two teams of eleven players, and it is the most popular sport in the world.[1] It is a ball game played on a rectangular grass or artificial turf field, with a goal at each of the short ends. The object of the game is to score by manoeuvring the ball into the opposing goal."

These three sentences communicate the basic premise of the game and inform me a lot more than the opening paragraph of this article. The opening paragraph should be made similar to the Football article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.148.98.137 (talk) 21:08, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

new equipment, maybe?—Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.10.121.33 (talk) 13:06, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

---

[edit] Vandalism and Advertisements

Let's watch the ads, folks. I'm seeing mention of best players and sponsorship deals. They don't belong.--THE FOUNDERS INTENT ^TALK 17:53, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

I tried getting this article semi-protected, but we haven't had enough vandalism to justify it yet according to the deciders. --THE FOUNDERS INTENT ^TALK 12:33, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

:i think it may be time to try again. the vandalism is now pretty much daily.Toyokuni3 (talk) 04:10, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Redundant Information

There is a lot of repeated stuff in this article. The different positions are explained at least three times. 134.84.96.142 (talk) 01:34, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Pop Lacrosse

Can someone please add some info about pop lacrosse, the version for kids, as this is becoming popular in schools and clubs but everyone seems to have their own version of the rules. I believe it is supposed to be non-contact, but you try telling that to a bunch of ten-year-olds! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.192.176.164 (talk) 16:41, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Lacrosse jargon

There should be a section of this article, or maybe a new article, about lacrosse jargon. There's a lot of terms that are unique to lacrosse and it might be valuable to list them here.Stanthejeep (talk) 17:38, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

I like the idea, but I say its probably not a good idea for the following reasons: #1) WP:NOT#DICT #2) I think much/some of the jargon is based on region. Not only does the kid from Long Island have an accent, but he also has odd lax terms. Then, as Brian Langtry wrote on NLLInsider: Canadians are Weird (No offense intended). #3) Also, much of the "lax jargon" would be unverifiable (not very wiki friendly . . .read: non-encyclopedic); plus I think a good intentioned attempt at this would then lead into vandals adding things made up one day (again, not wiki friendly, imo). --Mitico (talk) 19:39, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 15th Century?

the 15th century is the 1400's. since the eastern woodlands peoples had no written language, how can you substantiate this? the earliest european reference you give is 1636, which is the 17th century.Toyokuni3 (talk) 04:51, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

This is a very good question. How do we find out the exact time period when the game was invented. Is there an Indian oral history that could support it?--THE FOUNDERS INTENT ^TALK 11:33, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

even if an oral history of lacrosse exists(ed) (actually, i'm sure it does),it is unlikely to contain the sort of chronology needed in this context.we may be damned for eurocentricity, but i think it's best to stick with 17th century. it's really a pretty minor point anyway. but your comment showed up immediately after i made the change in the article. coincidence?Toyokuni3 (talk) 14:49, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Defensive vs. Offensive Middies

this section badly overstates the differentiation. first of all this is actually quite a recent innovation. secondly, you make it sound absolute, when the truth is , with the possible exception of the LSM, all middies are expected to be able to contribute both functions in varying degrees.e.g. 2005 jhu vs. uva-winning goal scored in overtime by benson erwin, a 'defensive' middie.Toyokuni3 (talk) 05:05, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

I hope you don't leave out CAPS in your articles.  ;) --THE FOUNDERS INTENT ^TALK 11:15, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

no worries, mate. :-)Toyokuni3 (talk) 14:54, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Water lacrosse

Someone started a paragraph on this version of the sport, but it was deleted. I have not found any quantity of historical information about this sport, but there is a brief mention of it in "Indian Scout Craft and Lore" by Charles Alexander Eastman. Apparently there was a version of lacrosse that Indians played in birch-bark canoes that is a forebearer of "water lacrosse" or "canoe ball". It may also be related to "canoe polo" or "kayak polo". Anyway, there is one site that discusses a history of canoe polo where paddles are used to throw a floating ball. The content sounds plausible but unfortunately has no references. Maybe some other people would be interested in digging around a bit on this. --THE FOUNDERS INTENT ^TALK 16:52, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

I deleted that paragraph because it sounded like vandalism to me. It mentioned a number of "notable" lacrosse players who have played, none of which I have ever heard of. One of the names was simply initials, and another had the last name of "Cardildo" or something similar. If someone feels like researching this feel free, but it certainly sounded like a joke to me. Maybe that's not assuming good faith, but with the number of times this page has been vandalized recently, it's hard not to be sceptical. --MrBoo (talk, contribs) 18:13, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

for what it's worth, john cardillo was an all-american defenseman at jhu in the late '60's. a son? nephew?Toyokuni3 (talk) 05:25, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Cost of Crosse

a claim is made that the introduction of plastic heads reduced the cost of the stick. can that be substantiated. if so, boy, the price reduction didn't last! Toyokuni3 (talk) 13:46, 30 May 2008 (UTC).