Talk:La Toya Jackson

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La Toya Jackson is a former featured article candidate. Please view the links under Article milestones below to see why the nomination failed. For older candidates, please check the archive.
June 28, 2007 Featured article candidate Not promoted
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Contents

[edit] tito jackson book

"She was also repeatedly molested by her father and brothers as confirmed in her brother Tito's book slated for an early 2008 release, entitled "Livin' Large"[4]"

I can't find any record of this book?

Yeh neither can I? Is it even a real book... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.148.121.179 (talk) 11:04, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "A Different World"

Yay god!

Just a clarification: La Toya was the fantasy of Ron Johnson, not Dwayne Wayne. Hillman heads will remember that Ron wanted a copy of La Toya's "Playboy" spread in the Hillman time capsule. Also, Superman is the greatest.

172.161.150.13 10:07, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

What's the problem with this article? I found it very helpful and interesting. --Jareth64 17:34, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Is the list of singles overkill, or a good idea? Any thoughts? Jwrosenzweig 19:58, 1 Mar 2004 (UTC)

well, you're right... should I remove it? anyway, there'll be a new LaToya site (with full discography) online soon, when it'll be done I'll delete the singles here and put up a link to that site.
Removed single and album listings and created a discography page - she has enough albums and singles to deserve one. Rhythmnation2004 17:50, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

"she stated that the allegations against Michael Jackson were true". Which particular allegations does this refer to? pomegranate 00:19, Sep 9, 2004 (UTC)


I ran into LaToya and met her for the first time this past weekend. She asked me my name, then introduced herself by saying, "I'm LaToya." I doubt she's changing her name, or she'd be introducing herself to new people with it.

She only used it when she sent the promo of her new song to radio stations. I don't think she'll continue using that nam

now that everyone knows Toy is LaToya.

This article is so hideously POV - whoever the fans of Latoya are that are editing it need to SERIOUSLY aquaint themselves with the rules and regulations of Wikipedia. We appreciate your contributions but facts only, please. Also, let's be serious: the average man on the street thinks of Latoya Jackson as the cloying, less-talented sibling of Michael and Janet Jackson. I can only name on Latoya Jackson song - "Heart Don't Lie" - and that's because I saw it on a pop up video segment.

I wrote this while I was on the toilet.

[edit] Gay Icon Project

In my effort to merge the now-deleted list from the article Gay icon to the Gay icons category, I have added this page to the category. I engaged in this effort as a "human script", adding everyone from the list to the category, bypassing the fact-checking stage. That is what I am relying on you to do. Please check the article Gay icon and make a judgment as to whether this person or group fits the category. By distributing this task from the regular editors of one article to the regular editors of several articles, I believe that the task of fact-checking this information can be expedited. Thank you very much. Philwelch 20:55, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

LaToya is a gay icon. Not to me, lol. 80.41.122.6 18:57, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Incorrect sales!!!

I would like the sales to be fixed on this page. It is grossly incorrect and should be fixed. 198.54.202.100 21:30, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Why did my additions get deleted?

okay, I was playing a practical joke that I'm sorry for the first time. But... the second time, I was making the musical bio factual (sorry, LA TOYA is the cd with You're Gonna Get Rocked, NOT BAD GIRL) and yet it still gets deleted and reverted. WTF?

I am getting sick of everything I add getting deleted, same thing happened on the Streisand board when I added some information about her 70's and 80's albums, non-jokingly.

Wikipedia doesn't like "practical jokes".

Think Boy who cried wolf.

[edit] POV

There are a lot of assertions made in this article with no citations. They need to be added, ASAP, or I will come back within around a week and make major cuts and revisions to the article. Pacian 21:53, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article still needs a lot of cleanup

The cleanup template should not have been removed when there was no clean up done. The article does not follow many of Wikipedia's stlye guidelines. Individual years should not be linked to. "La Toya" should be refered to as "Jackson" throughout the entire article after the first mention of her full name. Only the first word in each heading should be capitalized unless proper nouns are present. The song titles in the discography should be placed in quotes. Also, the writing/grammar is very poor in many parts. For example: "La Toya was brought into the spotlight with her family after her father got the family to get together to perform several shows". And the article does need citiations. Somebody seems to have added {{Fact}} markers to the article, but they were removed. Articles need to cite sources. --Musicpvm 18:42, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

I already added the citations that were needed. Some places said "Citation needed" when there is no possible way to provide one. And note to Musicpvm (or whatever your name is), if you are such the expert on the English language then why can't you correct the crap yourself? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rhythmnation2004 (talk • contribs)

Because I don't feel like cleaning it up at the moment. I may later. Why do you think Wikipedia has cleanup templates? That is what they are used for. When somebody sees that an article is in need of cleanup, they can place the template at the top to alert others. They are not required to clean it up themselves. What do you mean "there is not possible way to provide" citations? You removed {{Fact}} templates in areas that definitely need citations. The article makes strong claims yet lacks any references. You seem to be unaware of Wikipedia's policies. Please see Wikipedia:Citing sources. If you lack the ability to search for sources, don't just remove all of them. You have already done so twice. [1] [2]. The second time with the ridiculous explanation "Some things don't need citations. Some things are clearly stated as being from La Toya's book." If the source is her book, then cite the book and the page number. Also, please sign your comments on talk pages. --Musicpvm 02:35, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
Musicpvm, good response to User:Rhythmnation2004. I was wondering about something. I have been under the impression, perhaps mistaken, that individual years do need links. Whether that is especially or only on the first reference to that year, my understanding is unclear. If you could point me to an appropriate policy or guideline that shows me where I'm wrong, I would really appreciate it, especially if you were willing to place it on my talk page. I only request that because I have hundreds of pages on my watchlist, so its usefulness has been reduced to almost zero. Thanks in advance. --Cromwellt|talk|contribs 07:53, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

I have started to clean up the article in an effort to make it sound more neutral and like an encyclopedia but would have no idea where to find more citations. I'm just editing the tone and grammar a bit so it flows better. - DT

I have also noted more citations are needed but do not know the code to point them out. I will later include a list here on which a source is needed. - DT

[edit] Citations

This article has been tagged for almost 6 months now, and I think it is time to add citations where they are needed. Can an administrator please point out exactly what needs citations? I will be happy to find the sources and add them, but I need to know where there is a citation needed. Thanks. Rhythmnation2004 17:16, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] No Relations fan page

I removed the link to - The No Relations La Toya fansite because the website hasn't been updated in 2 years and is very poorly maintained. In addition, the Geocities ads on the side are extremely frustrating. Only one fan site needs to be listed, and that is the Church of La Toya, which has a links page and links to other fan sites, most of which are also poorly maintained. Rhythmnation2004 16:03, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New Picture

The new picture is pretty good, but her nose looks like it could fall off any minute. I'm assuming that's not the lighting; it's her appointments with the Jackson rhinoplasty surgeon. LOL 80.43.9.157 12:21, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Explanation of revisions on 23:20, 26 March 2007

To begin with, user 74.99.219.28, "Just Wanna Dance" -WAS- in the top 20 dance singles, although I agree that the way it is currently phrased is more neutral. Singer and musician are separate on many other articles (see Marlon Jackson), and there is no Wikipedia policy stating that this is not acceptable. She did indeed win a Grammy, as Jimmy Cliff's album on which the track "Reggae Nights" appeared received a Grammy award for Songwriting. Since La Toya was a songwriter on this album, she is a rightful winner of that award just as much as any other contributing writer to that album. In addition, I have added in the fact that Jackson is a New York Times Bestselling author, as it is common knowledge that her memoir La Toya: Growing up in the Jackson Family sat on the top of the Best Sellers list for several weeks. You obviously have very little knowledge on the subject of La Toya Jackson, which is a good reason why you should try to not get involved with this page. I have seen in the past that you have continued to vandalize this page with the sole purpose of belittling La Toya Jackson or making her appear to be a less-legitimate musician, actress, author, and songwriter than she truly is. Please refrain from further revisions of the introduction paragraph or you will be reported to administration for repeated vandalism. However, I thank you for your attempted contribution and hope that you will find other ways to contribute to Wikipedia in the future, hopefully with legitimate sources as proof that your revisions are fact, and not your own biased opinions. Rhythmnation2004 23:30, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

COMMENT: No, Jackson has *not* won a Grammy. Jimmy Cliff has won the Grammy, for an album which Jackson happens to have a co-writing credit on. Grammy awards for performance are not given to songwriters, they are given to the performer. No Grammy has been given to Jackson, as NARAS themselves will confirm; since the Grammys are their own awards, NARAS should qualify as a "legitimate source". Just because you feel that she *should* get a trophy, or assume that one has been given, for her song-writing co-credit does not make it so. (For an analogy, consider that when Oscars are handed out for Best Picture, they are given to the producer - not the guys named further down the credits.) To say that Jackson is a "Grammy-winning songwriter" is misinformation at best, a lie at worst, though I won't question your motivations. But she has definitely not won a Grammy in any category, certainly not for song-writing where she has not even been nominated. She *has* been nominated (but not won) in the Dance category, so if the article needs the word "Grammy" in it to legitimize her, the article can mention that. Overstating her accomplishments (or fabricating them outright) is no better than denigrating them. (CCC)

[edit] Image

Rhythmnation2004 (talk · contribs) insists that Image:Latoyatile.jpg is a proper image for this page. The image is a tile print that the user made himself of Jackson. In my opinion it looks almost nothing like her and has no place on this page. Does anyone else have thoughts on it? Metros 17:22, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

I intend no offense or incivility when I say this, but simply honesty: That picture looks as much like a sock puppet as it does La Toya Jackson. If it doesn't actually reflect the subject of the article, it doesn't belong. Bladestorm 17:25, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
    • Comment - I added a self-created representation that should be suitable until this debate is settled! 99DBSIMLR 17:37, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
      • Yeah, about that...Please see WP:POINT. Metros 17:39, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Request for comment

Metros continues to abuse admin powers by removing all listed awards and achievements from the La Toya Jackson article, despite the fact that all of the more obscure awards were properly sourced and the other ones were common knowledge (such as, La Toya Jackson provinging background vocals on Michael Jackson's Thriller (album), which can not be proven other than a scan of the album's inlay). Metros' rationale behind this was that images of the awards themselves, which were the sources given, were not acceptable. I asked Metros to show me which Wikipedia policy stated this, and he refused, probably because there isn't any. In addition, Metros went so far as to say that some of the awards were not notable and not worthy of being referenced on the article, including, but not limited to, such prestigious awards as tributes from U.S. congress, the NAACP Medal of Freedom, and a recognition certificate from the National Academy of Recording Arts and Sciences, among other things.

This is not the first time that Metros has used his personal hatred towards the subject of the article to belittle her by removing any part of the article that glorifies her achievements. This violates the Wikipedia policy of Neutral point of view, a policy which Metros constantly quotes. Rhythmnation2004 19:56, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

  • Comment Rhythmnation2004, this isn't really an article request for comment as far as I can tell, this appears to be a request for comment on my actions. A request for comment for articles should talk about the issue (i.e. are Imageshack images reliable sources) and not on people's actions. For user requests for comments see WP:RFC/USER. Metros 20:03, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment to User:Metros. No, this is a request for comment on the unjustified removal of valued content from this article. Please stop trying to run me around in circles to get this issue resolved. You have already refused mediation, this issue has been thrown off the Admin's noticeboard, and I am using this as a last result. This is a request for comment on this article, and the request remains. Rhythmnation2004 20:07, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

No, this is forum shopping. You didn't get what you wanted at WP:ANI, where it was clearly explained that what Metros did was not "abusing admin powers", yet you are making the same complaints here. So this is a clearly incorrect complaint, previously posted at another forum, now reposted in an incorrect forum here. Please stop it. Fram 12:28, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Metros' abuse of admin powers is NOT THE TOPIC OF THIS REQUEST FOR COMMENT. This request for comment was created to discuss the unjustified removal of properly sourced awards and achievements from the La Toya Jackson article. Please stop trying to change the subject; it's obvious that you are only trying to keep me running around to the point of exaustion in the hopes that I will drop it. Rhythmnation2004 13:15, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Then why does this RfC start with you railing against my continued abuse of admin powers? RfCs are supposed to be neutral. They are supposed to present the broad view of the topic at hand, not one side's complaint. A statement like "Comments are requested on the reliability of the sources given in the awards and achievements section" is more appropriate than "Metros is removing this information and he did a bunch of other bad things." Metros 13:29, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
I'm amazed that responding to the first six words of your initial RfC statement is explained as "trying to change the subject". But if I ignore your wrong claims about Metros and the fact that this is the wrong forum for them, I still have to say that images are usually (and in this case as well) not reliable sources. If an award, recognition, medal, ... is truly important, there have to be a number of independent reliable media (newspapers, magazines, ...) that have reported about it. This may require some searching, but that is the burden of the one wanting to include such claims. Poorly sourced claims, especially about living persons, may be removed by other editors. Fram 18:55, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

At this point, I am completely ignoring any response from Metros and Fram. There is NO Wikipedia policy that states that images can not be used as sources. A photograph of the award is the best proof possible that the award exists. Rhythmnation2004 19:55, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Certain awards that need to be noted

  • La Toya's appearances in music videos, such as "L.A. Is My Lady" and "Say Say Say" do not require sources, as anyone can watch the videos and see this for themselves. Yet, these references were removed.
  • La Toya's status as resident performer of the Moulin Rouge does not require a source, as thousands of people saw it themselves and also, a soundtrack was released. See Formidable.
  • La Toya provided background vocals on Michael Jackson's Thriller (album). This does not require a source as anyone can open the album's inlay and see that La Toya is listed as one of the backing vocalists.

It is blatantly obvious that the user that removed all of these awards and other achievements is attempting to make La Toya Jackson look like a joke, by only providing two sourced achievements in the article.Rhythmnation2004 20:04, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

  • It is blatantly obvious that the user who has removed them believes that your so-called "common knowledge" statements are not "common knowledge" statements. Metros 20:09, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Despite the fact that I just proved that those three achievements do not require sources. How mature of you. Rhythmnation2004 22:26, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

  • Your statements do not prove anything. Anyone can go read Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone but we still cite it as a source. So just saying "hey, you can go watch her videos" is not sufficient. Thousands of people watched Mariah Carey on TRL with her breakdown but we still have to cite a source saying what happened on there. This is not common knowledge as much as you want to believe it is. By the way, so much for ignoring any comment I make, huh? Metros 22:36, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Comment by uninvolved third party

Okay, first of all, this RfC is improperly structured. It should be presented as a neutral statement (i.e. "Should this content be included?") not a clearly POV finger pointing statement.

That said, my take on the matter is this: Photos and videos from a user content site like youtube or imageshack or wherever are certainly not reliable sources. Aside from the fact that it calls for conclusions to be made that aren't immediately obvious (subject of the photo, what's happening), such user based content could be manipulated or misrepresentative. On the other hand, if her name appears in the liner notes (or in any sort of credit reel), that doesn't call for any conclusion and certainly should be included (and referenced to the source, if necessary). If the subject truly did receive an award, there is likely a better record than some random photo. Even a primary source, like the subject's own bio would probably be acceptable here. Even better would be the award giver itself, since they generally keep a record of such things.

Second, as far as removing unsourced material goes, I'm never really against it, but I don't think that removing awards and appearances falls under WP:BLP which clearly states that it's about contentious and potentially libelous material. Outside of BLP, if an editor suspects that unsourced material may be inaccurate or can't tell, then removal is fine. I would frown upon a user removing information that they believed to be accurate, that wasn't contentious just because sourcing was insufficient, though. I just don't see the point.

Finally, as far as the abuse of admin powers goes, that's probably beyond the scope of this RfC, but it's unclear to me what, if any, admin powers were used here. Looks like a straight up content dispute to me, in which one of the involved parties happens to be an admin.

So, that's my take. Hope it helps. -Chunky Rice 18:01, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

I was working with the contentious aspect of BLP as in it caused contention among Wikipedia editors. Rhythmnation2004 kept adding a comment that she was a Grammy-award winning person but kept failing to source it or sourcing it inappropriately. Other editors tried to remove it but he forced it back in saying (through this IP edit) that "it's common knowledge that La Toya is a grammy-winning songwriter for "Reggae Nights". YOU are welcome to contact the Grammy corporation for confirmation." Because there was contention on this and the other awards, I removed them. Do you think I am interpreting the BLP differently? Inappropriately? To me, there was contention and that's why I removed with this in mind: "Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material...about living persons should be removed immediately and without discussion from Wikipedia articles." Metros 18:29, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
I do think that your interpretation of WP:BLP is overbroad in that respect. Look at the the text under the subheading regarding contentious material. It says, "Where the material is derogatory and unsourced or poorly sourced." (emphasis mine). The rest of the content also refers to material that is negative in tone. My reading of that is that BLP is primarily about negative or harmful content. This is not to say that there's anything wrong with removing unsourced material that you believe to be inaccurate. I just don't think that you can or need to justify it with BLP. This does mean that repeatedly removing the content may run you into 3RR, though, which is not the case for a BLP violation. -Chunky Rice 18:40, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
Well the lead of the BLP policy states "whether negative, positive, or just highly questionable" (right where the ... is in the part I quoted in my first reply. So I've interpreted as regarding all material based on that. Metros 18:42, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
Fair enough. I agree that BLP applies per that sentence. I do find it odd that very little fo the rest of the policy supports it, though (including the statement by Jimbo that the sentences references). Given that, I still think that the emphasis of the policy is about negative/potentially harmful content. -Chunky Rice 19:05, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
Wandering by--there is a point about unsourced positive comment--it might be untrue; BLPs can be a problem in both directions, though I think the wording back there needs to be fixed up. But in this case, though, I cannot see what the problem is. I thought there was a list of such awards. Either there is an award, or there isn't. If there is, it can be sourced. Asserting a Grammy and saying one can not source it, that seems a little odd. But maybe I misunderstand-- it seems too simple. DGG 03:52, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Christian Science

I've modified a few statements. Firstly LaToya in her book cited, makes it very clear that she chose to be in that religion, so I've made that clear here. Secondly she didn't spend "most" of her time witnessing. Her witnessing is only mentioned a few times in her book, among a host of other things that had nothing to do with the religion. She does make it clear that until her 20s at least, the religion had an established grip on her perspective of a number of things, such as what song lyrics she could sing for example. Wjhonson 18:28, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

I've found another oddity. The article stated before that *Jack* had coaxed her into posing for Playboy. Her book, which I have, states very clearly that it was her own decision. Wjhonson 17:06, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Omissions

The article omits the following issues:

  • what does her given name mean, how did it originate?
  • rhinoplasty, other cosmetic surgery

Thanks, Maikel (talk) 11:19, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

  • involvement with the Psychic Discovery Network Cstaffa (talk) 21:13, 9 March 2008 (UTC)


Girl !

LaToya Jackson: you are my girl: reading in the sites of: Gretchen Wilson: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: Decmeber 2, 2007: Nadiya: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: October 19, 2007: Brenda Song: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: Discussion: they blanked out: written yesterday a new message: and: Robert De Niro: Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: you must to search: the actores got their projects: combinate the movies: cinema: watching with wireless headphones on PC: COMPUTER: Lord of the rings: the return of the king: a 11 oscar production: camera: dvd: poster: 11 oscars: until to a&r: Latoya Jackson: take your chance: your projects and your single and album coming out: cd extra: until to a&r: camera to a&r: single and album: until to: Latoya Jackson: step into your own life: there´s nothing to loose: Gretchen Wilson=Nadiya=Brenda Song=Latoya Jackson: i have so many girlfriends: too: you are one of my favorite girls to the awards: the productions must to have quality: you know our actor love is: www. you tbe com. de, broadcast yourself, search for: California Love: combinate the movies: there are only one life: i know you want me: you really wanna: straight to the door: come on: straight to: all night long baby: baby baby: i am going crazy: knock: knock: knock: come on: knock me out: try to knock me out: Latoya Jackson=Ariel Gade: baby girl: my girl: knock: knock: knock: try to knock: knock me out: try to kock me out: you are my girl: take your chance: there´s nothing to loose: i can show you things: you never knew they exist: never: concentration: not speaking: enjoy our education: girl: my girl: here we go: working with grammy rhythm: design, colors: take your chance: you got it take your chance now: i am your man: take my mission: wishing you the best to the awards: good luck: you know the grammy is the greatest awards: asking you: asking: are you ready: if you want to survive worldwide the productions must to be in quality: soundtrack: must to have grammy quality: you know: only quality has future: i am yours: take me but don´t hurt: m-y l-o-v-e: Latoya Jackon: is: my love: baby girl: i am going crazy: my girl: girl you know it´s true !