Talk:László Bíró

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was PAGE NOT MOVED -- as there was no consensus for the move per discussion below. --Philip Baird Shearer 10:39, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

László Bíró → Ladislao Biro — Redirect with history prevents move to proper Argentinian name for Argentinian inventor, who was already there by the time he became notable, and remained there till his death. He is also best known in English as Ladislao Biro or Ladislo Biro, which doesn't even have a redirect. Was earlier improperly moved, unreferenced and without discussion, from Laszlo Biro to László Bíró. Gene Nygaard 14:10, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Survey

Add  # '''Support'''  or  # '''Oppose'''  on a new line in the appropriate section followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~. Please remember that this survey is not a vote, and please provide an explanation for your recommendation.

[edit] Survey - in support of the move

1. Support as nominator. Gene Nygaard 14:11, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Survey - in opposition to the move

1. Oppose - support Hungarian spelling for Hungarian inventor. I have never heard of "Ladislau Biro" but am familiar with the name "László Bíró". The (despicable) Google test gives around 700 English-language hits for "Laszlo Biro" (with or without accents), and 116 for "Ladislau Biro". Britannica uses László József Bíró, offering "Ladislao Biró" (with an accent!) only as an alternative. Collins English Dictionary makes reference to Laszlo Bíró, not Ladislao. --Stemonitis 14:29, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

   He was an Argentinian inventor, having spent most of his life in Argentina, and having the first commercial production of his pens in Argentina. He was driven out of Hungary at the age of 38, and later spent the last 45 years of his life in Argentina after a few years elsewhere. Gene Nygaard 14:49, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

   Exile does not necessarily affect nationality. Bíró is almost always (including in the links in the article) called a "Hungarian inventor". Even had he taken on an Argentine name, common usage still favours his earlier, Hungarian one. --Stemonitis 15:01, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

   No, people who argue that "birth name" determines where our article should be have been resoundingly rejected every time this comes up. What is most important is what he used last. You also mischaracterized the Britannica entry, which says "also called Biró Ladislao", curiously using the Hungarian name order with the Argentinian first name. The Hutchinson Encyclopedia uses "Lazlo Biró"[1] with both names differing from the current article name, and both also differing from my proposed move. Gene Nygaard 15:07, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

2. Oppose per Stemonitis. Bendono 23:55, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

Add any additional comments:

This article was originally created with Ladislao "Laszlo" Josef Biro in the intro. Later, somebody changed that to a hodgepodge with Hungarian spellings of two of the names. Gene Nygaard 14:24, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

The English word biro for which he is the eponym has no accent marks. Gene Nygaard 15:11, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Ladislas Biro is another common spelling (still redlinked here, unsurprisingly). Gene Nygaard 15:22, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

There is a long standing 'myth' that despite the huge fortunes made by the ballpoint pen industry, Biro only received a few hundred dollars for his patent. Does anyone know of any proof? --MichaelGG 04:36, 9 June 2007 (UTC)