Talk:Kylie Minogue

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Kylie Minogue article.
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Contents

[edit] QUEEN OF POP

Why isn't Kylie mentioned as Pop Queen, She is given this title in Europe and Australia!! Why is it that an artist must make it in the US to gain the title on Wikipedia??? Can somebody please edit this. Thank you


[edit] Irish Australian

I'm glad that people stopped removing Category:Irish Australians. I've added it at least six times in the last few months or so, and someone (who I assume has problems with Irish people)kept removing it. Removing categories won't change facts about her ancestry!!!

[edit] Unsourced statements

there is a huge amount of unsourced statements in this article which must be addressed, many of which seem to be obvious, but as it is a FA, it requires these statements to be sourced. There is also a lot of unsourced POV. --Bob 15:33, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

So you've added 21 points that need citing. I can't help but feel that this is a bad faith action on your part. Looking at your edit history you don't seem to have edited pop culture articles in the recent past, and this comes a few minutes after I'd objected at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/HIV. I'm not interested in playing games with you. Don't make edits such as this just to make a point Rossrs 15:57, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
Actually, I contributed to this article 1 August 2006. I waited a month for changes to be implemented and nothing was done. If you think this is a reflection on yourself, then you hold yourself in too high a regard. --Bob 16:40, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
So you did. You made a few minor changes to the way a few existing references were formatted. If you were waiting for "changes to be implemented" it seems odd that you didn't put a message on the talk page, and the timing of your 21 point "this needs to be cited" plan is still coincidental, coming about 10 minutes after I objected to your FA nomination. Rossrs 23:22, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
Exactly, coincidental, the two are unlinked. Stop being paranoid or is it vanity? --Bob 00:01, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
I'm not paranoid or vain but let's not steer this unpleasant exchange into name-calling. You are quite right in many of the things you've requested a cite for, although some of them appear excessive to me. I'll cite what I'm able to, as time permits, and there are other regular editors here who will probably also work on it. Rossrs 00:13, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

For the record:

  1. "dismissed by critics" - removed "cite needed" - this summarises comments that are made and sourced in the article.
  2. "highest ticket sales" - source provided, also in main article.
  3. childhood acting roles - removed POV from sentence which is now supported by her IMDb entry and does not require cite.
  4. high rating for wedding episode of Neighbours, changed "record" audience to "large" audience. cites provided, including one from BBC UK and another website also reproduces Minogue on cover of Time Magazine - headline Australian Soaps Captivate the World.
  5. "Singing Budgie" - source provided.
  6. "Dropped by Geffen Records" - not relevant. removed the text.
  7. "In Australia her popularity of the previous years diminished" - removed "cite needed". Kylie Minogue discography shows chart positions for her records with sources attributed. Pretty clear her records of this time were not hits.
  8. Collaborations with Pet Shop Boys etc - not important. removed the offending text.
  9. second to Madonna in UK. source provided.
  10. "I Believe in You" not played by radio "stateside" - how sad, who cares? Removed offending sentence.
  11. breast cancer diagnosis and postponement of tour - source already provided for both in "Breast cancer" section but have copied the link, which covers both points.
  12. Delinquents film poorly reviewed. - source provided
  13. Delinquents film success. - two sources - one showing box office takings for UK, and one showing it as number one Australian film of 1990 in Australia.
  14. Streetfighter film. Removed "cite needed". Trimmed back sentence so that its point is covered by the existing source cited.
  15. Moulin Rouge film. Removed the text saying it's her most widely seen film. Now it only says that she was in it.
  16. comparisons to Madonna. source provided.
  17. "Lack of talent". Removed "cite needed". Covered by the same source as the sourced quote from Miki Berenyi which follows it. If a paragraph is all sourced from the same material there's no need to provide a cite at the end of each sentence.
  18. Moving away from sex pot image. Removed "cite needed". The whole paragraph is covered by the same source which is stated at the end of the paragraph. Not going to source the paragraph sentence by sentence.
  19. Steve Brack's statement. Removed "cite needed". the entire paragraph is sourced to the two references given at the end of the paragraph. Once again, not going to list a source at the end of every sentence.
  20. media attention subsided. not important. removed sentence. Rossrs 15:35, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lessons

Should something be mentioned about her upcoming album? I read about it in Google News once. The album was supposed to be titled "Lessons" but I can't source that and even if I could, I wouldn't exactly be sure how to. (Too Much To Ask 23:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC))

[edit] Popular?

for the perople in the united states of america, is kylie as popular as britney, christina, janet and madonna or is she more popular like a c-star. cause here in europe she is highly popular FANSTAR 18:52, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

She is hardly even a C-star really. There is noway she is as popular in the united states as Britney Spears, Jlo, Christina, Ashlee Simpson, Kelly Clarkson, Jessica Simpson, Madonna or Hilary Duff. They are all much much bigger here 152.163.100.6

that`s strange! 86.94.36.240 20:02, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Unsourced

I just noticed that the "return to stage" section is unsourced, I added an unsourced tag to draw attention. I'm pretty sure the section is factually correct, but as a FA it should be sourced. James086 Talk | Contribs 06:16, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

You're right, it should be sourced. It's been fixed. Rossrs 14:21, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hospital

I get SO ANGRY (up to the point where i'm crying) everytime people accuse her of moving cardiac patients....SO WHAT?! EVEN IF IT HAPPENED! Kylie is way more important then those people, and she did not order the movings! She is I N N O N O G U E you morons! She deserves your credit. Go Australia and GO KYLIE you Queen!! -Danny —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 145.33.26.11 (talk) 08:25, 5 December 2006 (UTC).

I agree totally. I also really hate how Kylie has totally milked the whole cancer thing, just to get sympathy and sell more records. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.45.172.214 (talk) 13:32, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

This isn't really the right place to comment about it, and definitely not the right way to go about changing peoples' minds. Indja 09:59, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
For the record, the first comment in this section has been attributed to me since early December last year. I did not write it; it was written by 145.33.26.11.[1] The user apparently didn't like me reverting their attempt to hide their IP.[2] I have corrected the signature. -- Mark Chovain 09:04, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

"Kylie is way more important then those people" WTF? No one is more important than anyone, especially sick people in hospital. This is the rantings of a demented fan, should be deleted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.19.159.15 (talk) 23:56, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Nelly Furtado

Interesting combination. I've reworded the bit about Nelly Furtado and Minogue recording a duet. There are numerous websites speculating that they are planning a duet and these seem to date from about December 1st. Several of them refer back to a music.com site as their source, but reading that source piece, it's completely different. Furtado said 1. she admired Minogue's courage. 2. she would have loved to have had her on her recent album 3. Minogue is the person she would most like to record with and 4. She likes "Can't Get You Out Of My Head". If there is anything more recent that is more than rumour, then please rewrite it again, and provide an updated source. For now it seems to be speculation and it that's the case, we should be clear about it. Thanks Rossrs 07:25, 6 December 2006 (UTC)


[edit] New photo for Main page

Is there any chance of updating the main photo for this page to a post-cancer shot, maybe from the Homecoming tour? Peter2012

The main photo can only be changed if another free image can be found. So if you know of anyone who has attened one of Minogue's latest shows and is willing to have their photos displayed on Wikipedia then it can be changed. But until then, the current photo cannot be removed. -- Underneath-it-All 01:53, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Someone sneaked in "I mean, as if anyone cares. She's rich enough! "

Look in the subsection "Stock, Aitken and Waterman: 1987 – 1992", someone sneaked in the text quoted in this subject line. It does not show up in the edit box of the article. I guess it is some "creative" html or script coding. Can someone knowlegdeable take care of that? Is this type of hack widespread and does it have a name? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.72.47.216 (talk) 17:09, 24 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Category cleanup

This article currently has 28 category tags, and I think that's a bit over the top. I've taken a look at the (somewhat rambling) Wikipedia:Categorization guideline, which states: "Categories are for defining characteristics, and should be specific, neutral, inclusive and follow certain conventions." Some other useful quotes from the guideline: "Restraint should be used as categories become less effective the more there are on any given article" and "Categories appear without annotations, so be careful of NPOV when creating or filling categories. Unless it is self-evident and uncontroversial that something belongs in a category, it should not be put into a category."

So, let's take a look at what we've got. I'll list the current categories, some comments, and my recommendation for what to do with them.

  • 1968 births: factually accurate. keep
  • Actor-singers: yes, she's been an actor who sings or a singer who (tried to) act. keep
  • ARIA Award winners: factually accurate. keep
  • Australian child actors: factually accurate. keep
  • Australian dance musicians: what constitutes a "dance musician"? Isn't it possible to dance on all types of music? Questionable. delete
  • Australian dancers: is she primarily known for being a dancer? Questionable. delete
  • Australian expatriates in the United Kingdom: yes, she lives in the UK. Is this a notable property of Minogue, though? dunno delete
  • Australian female singers: factually accurate. keep
  • Australian film actors: factually accurate. Unfortunate but true. keep
  • Australian pop musicians': factually accurate. But, do we need to list her both as a singer and a musician? delete
  • Australian pop singers: factually accurate. keep
  • Australian singer-songwriters: factually accurate. Good description of (one of the aspects of) her profession. keep
  • Australian songwriters: factually accurate. But likewise, do we need both the "singer-songwriter" and the "songwriter" tags? delete
  • Australian television actors: factually accurate. keep
  • Breast cancer activists: what constitutes a "breast cancer activist?" Disputable. delete
  • Breast cancer patients: factually accurate. keep
  • Brit Award winners: factually accurate. keep
  • Dance musicians: same comment as for "Australian dance musicians." Also, why do we need both tags? The more inclusive one would be sufficient, no? delete
  • Gold Logie winners: factually accurate. keep
  • Grammy Award winners: factually accurate. keep
  • Kath & Kim actors: factually accurate. But, featuring as a guest star in one episode wouldn't make this a momentous achievement, I'd say. delete
  • Living people: factually accurate. keep
  • Neighbours actors: factually accurate. Significant to her rise to fame. keep
  • Parlophone artists: factually accurate. keep
  • People from Melbourne: factually accurate. Is it important, though? dunno keep
  • Rhythmic contemporary musicians: what on Earth is "rhythmic contemporary" music? It should be obvious by now that creating arcane labels in a futile attempt to categorise music is one of my pet peeves. The accompanying article doesn't offer much help, either. This tag should die, with extreme prejudice. delete
  • The Sullivans actors: factually accurate. But, as with "Kath & Kim", a short-lived appearance might not be enough reason to tag her for it. delete
  • Welsh Australians: So her mother is from Wales. Does that make her a "Welsh Australian?" Maybe, but is that a notable piece of information? delete

Comments, suggestions and dissenting opinions are welcome. --Plek 15:43, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Twenty-eight categories is a bit excessive! I agree with all the categories that you suggest should be kept, but here are my thoughts on the others:

  • Australian dancers: I don't think anyone really considers Minogue to be a dancer. So I agree, the category should be deleted.
  • Australian expatriates in the United Kingdom: She does primarily live in the UK, but hasn't she been spending a lot of time living in France the past year or so. I don't really see the point to this category, so yes, delete.
  • Australian songwriters: I think that the Australian singer-songwriters tag fits better.
  • Australian pop musicians: I don't usually think of Minogue as a pop musician, but as a pop singer. The Australian pop singers tag fits better.
  • Rhythmic contemporary musicians: Huh? No clue what the point of this tag is. Delete.
  • Breast cancer activists: She has done stuff to raise money for breast cancer charities, but nothing really notable, so delete.
  • Kath & Kim actors: If her role was bigger than a guest spot then I'd say keep the tag, so delete.
  • People from Melbourne: I say keep. She was born and raised in Melbourne.
  • The Sullivans actors: Like I wrote for the Kath & Kim actors tag. Delete.
  • Welsh Australians: I don't think that Minogue's mother's background is important. So delete.
  • Dance musicians: If were going to keep one of the categories than it should be the Australian dance musicians one since it's more specific. -- Underneath-it-All 00:34, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
I'm very much in agreement with Underneath-it-All. I agree with the "keeps" listed by Plek so it's really the deletes that need to be mentioned. So:
  • Australian dancers - the fact that she happens to dance during her concerts and in her videos does not make her any more a dancer than any pop singer you could name, all of whom move in one way or another to their music, in a manner that could be interpreted as dancing. If she ever makes a video in which she doesn't sing (or speak), then I'll change my mind ;-) Delete.
  • Australian expatriates in the UK - barely relevant, delete.
  • Australian songwriters - again, it's not what she's particularly known for. These days everyone writes at least some of their own material, and most of Minogue's catalogue was written by others. Delete.
  • Australian pop musicians - delete. Australian pop singers is a better choice.
  • Rhythmic contemporary musicians - I too am mystified. Delete.
  • Breast cancer activists - I haven't seen anything substantial in the news that warrants her inclusion in this category. Delete.
  • Kath & Kim actors - very interesting CfD on Murder She Wrote and X Files actors led to a decision to categorise only the regular or frequently recurring cast members - not guest stars or minor characters. I think this is very sensible, and would allow deletion from Kath & Kim actors and maybe Sullivans actors. See the Category:Murder, She Wrote cast members page - I'd love to see this implemented on a wider scale to remove some of the cruftier entries.
  • Welsh Australians - delete, delete, delete !!! This would make some sense if Wikipedia was a geneology site. There seems to be a trend to research people down to the 16th Century and then apply a lot of categories to them, but I think it should only be used where someone is born in one country and migrates to another, not for their offspring down through the years. Carol Minogue is a Welsh Australian. Kylie Minogue is an Australian, with some Welsh (and other) ancestry. Not enough to merit categorisation. What if Kylie and Olivier have a baby and it becomes famous? Will he/she be a French-Welsh-Australian or a Welsh-Australian-French? It's nonsense IMO.
  • Dance musicians - as above Australian dance musicians would be better, but she's still a singer rather than a musician. She certainly qualifies for this category better than most, but Australian dance acts or Australian dance performers would actually be more accurate. Not sure what to do with this one. I think it's significant that she's been successful as a club performer, and has won awards specifically for dance music, as opposed to the notion (which I agree with) that you can dance to pretty well any sort of music if you try hard enough. This is acknowledging a specific genre, which is more applicable to her than some of the other acts so categorised.
  • People from Melbourne - I would keep this one. It's not different to any of the other People from xxxx categories and I think there is a degree of relevance in it. Rossrs 09:19, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks to you both for your comments! I've updated my initial list to take your wise words into account. It seems we're all in total agreement; I feel warm and fuzzy. The tags will be purged shortly. --Plek 18:48, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
I have added the {{DEFAULTSORT}} template to the category tag list. Using that, you don't have to add a pipe link to individual tags anymore. See also Wikipedia:Categorization#Category sorting. --Plek 11:36, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Citations cleanup and re-evaluation

I noticed that the first half of the article was using in-line free-format citations, whereas the second half was using {{cite}} templates. I have started migrating all in-line citations towards using the {{cite}} templates, and will complete the task tomorrow (ish). My intention is to do a full review of all references soon. I have a nagging feeling that not all of them will stand up to close scrutiny, and that important pieces of information are lacking references altogether. Please share your thoughts on all of this. Thanks! --Plek 00:52, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

For the record: I think that in-line citations (especially when using the cite templates) make for crappy editing as they break up the text flow, but I don't see a viable alternative. Please correct my hapless ignorance if I'm mistaken. --Plek 00:58, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I have now completed the migration of all in-line references to {{cite}} templates. Almost all links were still alive, with the exception of #7: Transcript of television documentary Love Is In The Air. I couldn't find an alternative source, so I changed it to an archive.org link. I also corrected some LiMBO links and removed some duplicates. Everything should point to where it's supposed to, now.
Unfortunately, I do think that the references are not quite up to the current FA standards. "Back in the days," citations were mainly added after direct quotes, and the article is well-covered in that regard. However, nowadays it's expected to provide ample references to support the factual information in the article, and I think it comes up a bit short there (nothing too dramatic, but still lacking in some areas). As I don't want to pepper the text with {{fact}} tags, maybe we can decide in here which parts could use some references, and then set out to get them in place? Comments welcome. --Plek 20:09, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
I'll have a look through the article and see what I think we need to address. I agree with you, but I also think the main points that would need citing are those that could possibly be legitimately challenged and a lot of factual information is fairly innocuous. Another editor added about 25 "cite needed" tags several months ago. You'll see the comments further up in the discussion page. Some of the "cite needed" tags were added unnecessarily. Also, some of the paragraphs are covered completely by one cite at the end, which can make it appear that the first couple of sentences are not cited. I don't know how to solve that problem. Rossrs 21:35, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
Alrighty. I'll see what you come up with. In the meantime, here are my ideas:
  • The "Childhood/beginnings" part could get a cite, just to cover the basics.
Kylie:Confidential has some very detailed info. Also offers a different slant on the story of "successful TV actress stumbles accidentally into a singing career". The story according to Sean Smith : Seems Kylie and Dannii both wanted to be singers all along. Dannii, the more precocious of the two, becomes a major child-star (at least in Australia), while Kylie achieves some notability as "Dannii Minogue's older sister". She takes acting roles, and inspired by Dannii's success, finances two recording demos in 1985. They aren't successful but they catch the ear of a record producer, and by the time she famously takes the mic for a stirring rendition of "Locomotion" with other Neighbours casts members, she has been tutored and mentored by said record producer for more than a year, in anticipation of just such an opportunity. I wonder if we should expand this section by a short paragraph or so. The story of shy Kylie being coaxed into joining her cast-mates for a chorus of "Locomotion" is great showbusiness folk-lore but perhaps it's not entirely accurate. What do you think? Rossrs 10:01, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
(Why is it that these talk page discussions always turn into a typographical maze?) I think it might be an interesting peek into her early career and motivations, and something that could also shed some light on the relationship with her sister. Definitely worth more to the article than the odd bits of trivia that have been added here and there over the years. Still, I'm not too comfortable with relying on a single source, especially when it's a book that begins with a 10-page astrological chart (or whatever that is). Do you know of any independent sources that can confirm these stories? Also, I think the article is becoming a tad too long, so some pruning might be in order when expanding the "Early life" section. Just a thought. --Plek 21:05, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
No, I don't know of any other sources and I've been looking, without success. I don't think it's a major omission. Perhaps it's just something to keep in mind in the event of us ever finding a credible source. Rossrs 12:18, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
  • The last two paragraphs of the SAW section
  • The Deconstruction section: there is a lot of info here, but apart from the Towa Tei bit (and the direct quotes), citing is a bit light. The final two paragraphs of the section could do with one cite each.
  • The high ratings of the Money Can't Buy TV special.
  • Baker discussing her status as sex symbol.
I have a strong feeling that quote was once referenced and it's somehow been lost over time. I think it came from La La La. I'll have a look. Rossrs 08:52, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
I've added a cite. It was in the "Afterword" section of the 2003 paperback revised edition. Rossrs 09:04, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
  • She has been acknowledged as the highest selling female recording artist in Australia and Europe of the period from her debut in 1987 to the present. The reference to this is an undated biography on All Music Guide. Doesn't that make the "to the present" bit somewhat unreliable?
It's a fairly bold claim isn't it? And without an excellent source it's somewhat excessive. Perhaps the article could survive with its removal? Rossrs 00:28, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
I wouldn't be surprised if she's the best-selling female recording artist (henceforth known as "BSFRA") in Australia and in the UK. It should be possible to find some sources more authoritative than All Music Guide to settle that one. But all of Europe? Hmmm... I'd say doubtful. Madonna fans may be right in nerfing this statement for that (even though it's semantically correct). Do you know any good pan-European record sales statistics sources (short of adding up the numbers from all the national MAFIAA branches)? --Plek 01:10, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
No, I'm afraid I don't but that's exactly what we need to find. I think Kylie may well be the BSFRA in Australia. She's always been particularly beloved and her records, even the bad ones ("Especially For You"), have done well. Madonna's chart performance has been more erratic. Often a high chart placing but a short chart run, but she's had several hugely successful singles too. Hard to say who would come out the winner in Australia. I would expect Madonna to be the BSFRA in the UK - she's had considerably more hits there and she's been more consistent. Anything with her name on it seems to go straight into the Top 5. I'd have no trouble believing Kylie is 2nd best selling in the UK, but I doubt she's the best-selling. I think we're on shakey ground with this one. Rossrs 08:52, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
Oh, and I find it a tad irksome that we only have the single "hardcopy" reference in "La La La". Are you perhaps familiar with the melodramatically titled "Kylie: Story of a Survivor"[3] or "Kylie: The Biography"[4]? I might just pick one of them up if they're any good. Cheers. --Plek 21:24, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
Don't waste your money, Plek. I have the more luridly titled Kylie:Confidential also by Sean Smith. Same book maybe? I bought it in a bargain bin when we did the big rewrite on this and it was worth almost every cent of the $2.99 I paid for it. I'll dig it out and see if it contains anything useful. I think it's quite accurate but you have to get past the tabloidy gossipy style of it. Rossrs 00:28, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
Yes, I recalled your "bargain bin" comment after I noticed Sean Smith was the author. Judging from the synopsis, it might just be an updated version of Kylie: Confidential. Into the garbage bin it goes, then. I might still order some semi-random Kylie books from Amazon as soon as I work my way through the (unrelated) reading backlog. --Plek 01:10, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
it may serve a purpose in the discussion of her childhood. La La La (if my memory is right) tends to skim over her childhood.

[edit] "See also" section cleanup

I have nuked the "See also" section, because it's mostly superfluous. My reasoning can be found below:

  • List of Kylie Minogue concert tours: moved to "Tours" section, as a {{seealso}} tag. This way, the link supports the article where it is needed.
  • List of Kylie Minogue awards and accolades: moved to "Image and celebrity status" section, also as a {{seealso}} tag (I'm not entirely sure this is the right place to put it, but saw no better alternative and didn't want to completely nuke the link).
  • List of unreleased songs by Kylie Minogue: tangential information that can be reached via the nav bar. Deleted.
  • Best selling music artists: link to a biased and incomplete article (as is stated on the page itself). Not really something to point to from an FA. Deleted.
  • List of number-one dance hits (United States): Kylie is hardly notable for her success in the U.S. Deleted.
  • List of artists who reached number one on the U.S. Dance chart: Ditto, deleted.

The end result is that the "See also" section no longer exists. When in doubt, simplify! --Plek 14:39, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Misfit

Any room for a mention of Misfit[5], in which she mimes to a recording of a castrato? It's not typical of her regular stuff, but it's unusual enough to get a mention. Totnesmartin 20:22, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Incorrect info

Though I love Kylie to bits, the information in the intro is misguiding. yes, a newspaper article may say Kylie is the best-selling female artist in Europe, but newspaper articles should not be used for data in Encyclopoedias as they often tell lies. Madonna has benn certified by the IFPI (so nothing gets motre official) to have sold 80m albums alone in Europe (which means, about 120/130m betewwn albums and singles0> According to most sources, , including Wikipedia, Kylie has sold a worldwide total of 50-70million abetween albuums and singles. This does not even match Madonnas EU album tally, let alone her total. Also, Mina Mazzini has sold 64million records worldwide, aminly in Europe, an mainly albums, so, again, there is a problem here. hese are certified sales, not what newspaper articles say. You need to stick to official data if you want to write a credible encyclopoedia. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.70.80.195 (talk) 19:06, 4 February 2007 (UTC).

I have found that piece of information troublesome for quite some time now. So, I've removed it. Let's try to find some reliable sources first, before putting any statement about Euro-wide sales back in. If you know any, please list them. Thanks for your comment. --Plek 19:13, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ummm...?

Yeah, i'm not a Kylie Minogue fan, but i'm pretty sure this isn't supposed to be in the article...

"Kylie Ann Minogue (born May 28, 1968) is a dumb, talentless alleged performer. She cannot sing, dance or act. Or do anything of any note actually."

The Mischief Man 04:06, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, no, it's not exactly encyclopedic. I suspect she's done more of note than the person who made that edit, who probably can't sing, dance or act either, and whose biggest contribution to world culture to date is most likely some grammatically awkward internet vandalism. That's not a problem. It takes about 2 seconds to revert. Rossrs 07:45, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nelly Furtado

I remove the lines about Nelly Furtdao expressing an interest in working with Minogue. This is not exactly encyclopedic is it? I think these types of rumours / gossip are more suitable for a fan page.Paul75 01:02, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism

Poor old Kylie, she's hated so much she's the most vandalised entry on Wikipedia...

Really? I was always under the impression she was very liked and respected. There isn't much about her to vandalise her, unlike, say Michael Jackson or Anna Nicole Smith... Or were you being sarcastic?? 80.41.38.77 22:50, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

I just fixed/reverted the "Helloooo !!!" from "Childhood and beginning." Fustigate314159 22:00, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New album

Can we start a section or a page for Kylie's new album? 68.82.82.248 12:16, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Kylie WikiProject

I'm interested in creating a WikiProject for Kylie much like the one on The KLF. I just want to know if anyone would be interested in participating in it. -- Underneath-it-All 13:58, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm a bit pressed for time, but would like to lend a (small) hand if you can get it under way. A general cleanup and pruning of this article would be my first suggestion. --Plek 21:21, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
The Kylie Minogue WikiProject has been created! Please join up and help expand and improve articles related to Kylie. -- Underneath-it-All 03:22, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sales figures and the daily vandalism thereof

In the lead section is this sentence : "According to Warner Music Australia, Minogue has sold over 40 million records worldwide." (my emphasis) It cites Warner Music as the source - [6] and on this page it says "whilst album sales easily take her record sales worldwide to over 40 million." (my emphasis also) Notice how the 40 million figure is exactly the same in our article and in the source? Clever, huh?

Someone is changing this almost every day to 65 million. Lying about Minogue's achievements, which are impressive enough, does not somehow make her more than she is, so what exactly is the point? I would really love to know why.

To the anons who keep changing this to 65 million, I will accept this edit and stop reverting it if :
1. you link to another reliable source that says she has sold 65 millions records, or
2. you go out and buy 25 million Kylie Minogue records and send the receipt to the Wikimedia foundation for verification.

If not, please leave the 40 million figure alone. Rossrs 09:45, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

In The Link Says: 40 Million album - 25 Million singles = 65 Million records. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.21.222.110 (talk) 03:07, 23 September 2007 (UTC)


It says nothing of the kind. It says EXACTLY what I copied and pasted above. Rossrs 13:53, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
Now there is a link to You Tube featuring an ITV advert for an upcoming Minogue project, in which an anonymous voice-over actor makes an unsupported claim that she's sold over 40 million albums and 60 million singles or whatever ..... the sole purpose of which is to promote Minogue's show. I think this fails WP:V pretty badly. It's not a good source, and it presents a huge discrepancy between the figures quoted by the record company, who in fact would have a genuine vested interest to inflate the figures - and yet they don't. Rossrs 12:55, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
On second thoughts, Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Examples specifically notes You Tube as failing to meet our criteria as a reliable source along with other info at WP:V. That, along with the self serving message contained in the promo is enough to justify removing it. I'm in favour of changing the sales figure if it is outdated - and I believe that it is - but ONLY with a good, solid, reliable source. This just isn't good enough. I've removed it, and I hope that rather than just revert this without comment, as has been done already on numerous occasions, any interested person takes the time to comment on it. Also, the way this had been rewritten it was saying that Warner Music cited her sales at 65 million etc. Not true. They don't say that at all. Remember, it's an anonymous voice-actor making that claim on behalf of ITV. Not Warner Music Australia as incorrectly stated. Rossrs 13:04, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

It said on the Brit awards last night that Kylie has sold over 68 million records worldwide to date. Is this sufficient to update the figure? (looks like the previous 65 million may have been accurate though not cited) Spicefunk (talk) 18:00, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Too Long?

Morning, who tagged the article with that? I don't think the article is too long, more like it's very comprehensive. IceflamePhoenix 08:48, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

I've trimmed away things like discogrpahy, tour and film lists on this page, as they have their own respective pages. I think that helps the problem for the time being so i removed the tag. If someone feels it is still too long, feel free to put it back up. Peter2012 3.16, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Come now, people should at least be able to *see* a list of the tours and albums, without having to jump through to the more detailed pages and scroll around. IceflamePhoenix 09:46, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
Not when it means the page is getting too long, are people that lazy that they can't click a link to another page? There is always the template at the bottom of the page which lists them all anyway. Peter2012 10.13, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] unappreciated in Austria

As mentioned in the intro - do they mean Australia?Zagubov (talk) 22:44, 25 December 2007 (UTC)

well yes, but she was also unappreciated in Austria ..... Rossrs (talk) 06:26, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Astrid Peth

I'd just like to flag editors of this page to the discussion regarding merging Kylie Minogue's Doctor Who character's article Astrid Peth into "Voyage of the Damned". Please contribute to the discussion by going to this page. Wolf of Fenric (talk) 18:10, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Citizenship

Does Kylie have British citizenship? Otherwise how can she as an Australian receive a British honour? Timrollpickering (talk) 00:16, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Australia is a commonwealth realm, in that the Queen is Monarch of Australia.

Any Citizen of the United Kingdom and any of the 16 commonwealth realms (where lizzie is monarch) can be awarded an honour.81.155.208.158 (talk) 09:24, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

I think that in any event she'd be eligible for British citizenship since her mother was Welsh. Many Australians with a parent or grandparent born in a European Union country find that taking citizenship of that country is useful for travel to and within the EU (no visas required). They would, however be entitled to retain Australian citizenship and passports, as I imagine nearly all do. Millbanks (talk) 09:52, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

My understanding is that the Australian government is now against its nationals being given honours by the British government, instead issuing its own honours - the change was made in stages between the Whitlam and Hawke premierships. The Queen being Queen of Australia as well is irrelevant in this context, although she can still give the honours that are in her personal gift to Australian citizens (e.g. VO awards) but not the OBE. Timrollpickering (talk) 10:56, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
No, she is still fully eligible for British honours. Since she spends a considerable amount of time in Britain it would be completely acceptable for her to receive one. This is the case with all citizens of Commonwealth Realms, who can even use knighthoods if they are awarded them. Their own governments may frown on this, but that is irrelevant if the individual chooses to accept and/or use such honours. -- Necrothesp (talk) 16:20, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Officer of the Most Excellent Order of the British Empire (OBE)

Should Minogue's OBE be present in her article so soon.. she doesn't become an invested Officer of the British Empire until June 2008, when the Queen or Prince Charles invests the recipients in the New Year?? PoliceChief (talk) 18:04, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Recipients are entitled to use their honours as soon as they have been gazetted; they don't have to wait until their investiture. Even knights can start calling themselves "Sir" before their actual dubbing. -- Necrothesp (talk) 16:11, 30 December 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Time for an overhaul?

I think it's time to look carefully at this article, and bring it up to date, by removing or abbreviating some details that have become less significant with the passage of time. For example there is a paragraph about speculation of Minogue appearing in Dr. Who. Now that she has done it - the information about the speculation is irrelevant. I will go through and remove some of these points soon, and will refer back to this by way of edit summary, as I realize that otherwise people may not understand the removal of these details. Rossrs (talk) 14:07, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

I think this is a great idea. The article is slowly slipping from FA standards. If you need any help just give me a shout. :) -- Underneath-it-All (talk) 16:44, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
Thanks, I will certainly let you know if I have any problems. You're right, it is slipping from FA standard, and I'd like to see it fixed before it slips too much further. Rossrs (talk) 21:35, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

This article uses a bunch of fair use images. Comparable music video screenshots were removed from most musician articles a while ago, and appear only in articles on the album or song. Gimmetrow 06:56, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

A lot of images have been purged from a lot of articles, for a lot of reasons, but something else to consider is that the images used here have specific fair use rationales that address and are addressed by the text. This is different to the way screenshots are/were used in a lot of other articles, where there is/was no attempt to link the images and the text, and where they were used only as decoration. I'm not saying this is right or wrong, but it is different. Fair use criteria doesn't specifically say screenshots can be used only in articles about the song or music video, (though this is how it is sometimes interpreted) rather that each use should be justified. Rossrs (talk) 08:14, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
At least two images do not have fair use rationales. Some others have rather generic rationales which do not seem very strong, and eight audio samples seems rather excessive. Gimmetrow 08:50, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
Which two? All the images have rationales. You were talking about music video screenshots specifically and they all have rationales, one was incorrectly backlinked but in the rationale itself it linked to Kylie Minogue. The album cover should not have been there so I've removed it. The two unfree non-music-video images have weak rationales admittedly, but they have rationales. Maybe it's time to remove all but the most essential. Eight samples is excessive, I agree. Which ones would you remove? Rossrs (talk) 07:29, 6 March 2008 (UTC)
I took the liberty of cutting down quite a bit of content because there was a lot of repetitive stuff including mentions of awards (which has its own page), Kylie's duet with Dannii on the Showgirl Homecoming tour, etc. Everything that I found that was relevant and unsourced, I found sources for and left in. I also reworded a few items because they sounded a bit POV. If anyone has a problem with what I removed, let me know. Pinkadelica (talk) 04:52, 25 March 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Kylie's Record Beaten

I have not put this in the article but someone may want to.

Until 20 Apr 2008 since her hit "slow" Kylie held the record in the UK for the longest span of number 1 hits as a solo female artist of all time.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/newsid_1580000/newsid_1586600/1586698.stm

There was a better reference on a previous Wikipedia entry for this somewhere...


However this was beaten on 20 Apr 2008 when Madoona went to number 1.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7357633.stm

I cannot be bothered to do any more research to make this wiki friendly, however I feel others can research this and update the Madonna and Kylie entries accordingly.

Thanks.

Chulcoop (talk) 19:17, 20 April 2008 (UTC)