Talk:Kyle Miller

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This article was nominated for deletion on 23 January 2007. The result of the discussion was Keep.

This article is within the scope of the Pro Gaming WikiProject, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of professional video gaming. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.

Contents 1 NPOV 2 Better picture? 3 "Pioneer"?? 4 AWM or AWP 5 Proposed Deletion

[edit] NPOV

Slapped the tag on because it is too fawning of an article. Editing for NPOV would be appreciated. --Habap 19:53, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Seems fair, especially considering some of the pioneering claims. I mean there were 3 button mice around before Counter-Strike or even Quake which were designed to be held like that and the third button of course eventually became replaced with the wheel so that seems a far-fetched claim to me. I have got no idea how likely the AWP quick-switch claim is but I suspect a few people probably figured that one out. If I'm right about those then I'd take out the mouse one and tone down the AWP one. FlooK 02:27, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

I agree with the 3-fingered-mouse thing. I was doing it as I read the article, though I'd never heard of this person before or seen anyone else use a mouse like that. Perhaps it should be said instead that he has made it famous to a degree, or something similar.

I think it's relatively NPOV now, though I do wonder about the AWP claim. It would be useful if Haul could provide published references on both claims. --Habap 15:02, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Better picture?

Better picture? The current one is low-res/fuzzy/bad color quality. Last Avenue 02:40, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

The picture that I uploaded was one from Kyle's webcam on the team3d.net site.

The best picture I could find is located at http://www.team3d.net/images/competition_images/1945.jpg but, I doubt that we are aloud to use that image, especially with the copyright mark on it. The only good pictures of Kyle Miller, that I could find, are located at team3d.net. --Credema 02:48, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Pioneer"??

Miller is believed to have pioneered the 3-fingered mousing technique, which involves holding the sides of your mouse with your thumb and pinky only so that you can use your middle finger to hit the mousewheel and your ring finger to hit the right mouse button, though it is unknown if he still does this.

Excuse me? Everyone I know uses the mouse like this ever since we've been using them - probably before the dude ever saw one. // Gargaj 16:35, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Please look up the word pioneer in the dictionary. No one ever claimed that Kyle invented it, he merely made it famous as a gaming technique. It was first made famous in an interview with Kyle on the now defunct domainofgames.com (one of the precursors to both GotFrag and CAL).

Also, it is terribly annoying when people, trying to correct others, make the information even less correct. If you do not know about the quickswitch technique, that means you've been playing Counter-Strike for less than 2 and a half years. How could you possibly know who did and did not start trends in CS five years ago when you weren't around for their beginnings? How could you know if you've admittedly never even heard of Ksharp before?

Sorry, but Ksharp didn't use the previous weapon bind for quickswitching. He used his mousewheel. Another completely WRONG statement that was added by someone trying to correct others. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Haul (talk • contribs) on 1 April 2006

...huh? That has been a common technique in games forever, since that is how you HOLD A MOUSE! JONJONAUG 22:03, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Keep in mind that Miller became a professional gamer 8 years ago, when scroll wheels themselves were a relatively new phenomenon. Additionally, it is not how one naturally holds a mouse - people normally hold it between thumb and ring-finger. --Habap 10:57, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

I naturally hold my (three-buttoned) mouse that way, and I'm not even a gamer. Not much of one, anyways. CameoAppearance 07:41, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I also hold my wheeled mouse that way naturally. I've changed the wording to read "Many credit Miller for popularizing the use of the 3-fingered mousing technique in video games..." As for "Also, it is terribly annoying when people, trying to correct others, make the information even less correct. If you do not know about the quickswitch technique, that means you've been playing Counter-Strike for less than 2 and a half years."... while we want specialists in diverse areas of interest, including playing Counter-Strike, to use us as a source, you do need to use general language as much as possible, and establish context. For example, I'm an average person who was interested in the article, but didn't know what "CK3" and "NHG" were, let alone de_dust2, until I clarified my assumptions on other sites. -- Zanimum 16:54, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Kyle did not "pioneer" the quickswitch technique either. It had been around for years, but was used in a demo of a clan match which the fawning noobs watched & decided he "invented" it on the spot. Ironically, that clan match demo (vs. DoP Domain of Pain) also showed Kyle using a wallhack. Kyle did not gain his "fame" from X3. CK3 Clan Killers 3 was THE clan in Counter-Strike for years before X3 was formed.

[edit] AWM or AWP

he is best known for his sniping skills with the AWM (mistakenly referred to as the AWP in beta versions of Counter-Strike).

Players still refer to it as the AWP. Credema 06:16, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Should we revise the sentence to say that it is still mistakenly referred to that way or is that information best left in the CS or CS weapons article? --Habap 11:28, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

I suggest somthing like he is best known for his sniping skills with the Magnum Sniper Rifle, commonly referred to as the AWP by players. The name of the gun in-game is the Magnum Sniper Rifle and not the AWM sniper rifle, even if it resembles it.-Credema 21:50, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed Deletion

Kyle Miller is not noteworthy. There is no need for this page to be on Wikipedia.

I disagree. There was a Washington Post article on him and he is one of the most successful professional video game players in the short history of "eSports". --Habap 13:04, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

The very fact that you: A) used quotes around eSports and B) specifically stated that the history of eSports was short is evidence towards my proposal. The Washington Post has been around since 1877. If every person who ever had a story on them was on Wikipedia, the tubes would be totally clogged with all the people. There's no way that simply being in a Washington Post article makes you noteworthy and justifies your being on Wikipedia. "remove deletion tag how is this a vanity page? He has won notable tournaments" -- So? I've won notable slowpitch tournaments, and I'm not on Wikipedia. Being a professional CS player doesn't justify having a page on Wikipedia about you. Furthermore, the fanboy KSharp obsession that runs rampant in the competitive gaming community, when coupled with the immaturity of the community, doesn't -- and never will -- be able to coexist peacefully with the very nature of Wikipedia.

I used quotes around it because I think it's a silly term. Video game playing is about as much as sport as fantasy football. There are only a few people in this field that are notable and they are notable for having won hundreds of thousands of dollars for playing children's games (which does sound like professional sports to me). Miller is one of those people. The article on Miller in the Post is not the only reason for notability - as noted, he has won many tournaments and, as you noted, inspired fan-boyism. There are people who would be interested in reading this article who have never played Counter-Strike, because he represents a unique phenomenon.

By the way, if you dominated global slow-pitch softball tournaments for several years, I suspect you'd deserve a better article than The King and His Court. Until you dominate as Miller has, not even other softball players would read a web page about your team. (No one not on the [Humble Flies] visits our web pages either.)