Talk:Kybalion

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"The content of this book is generally believed to be a portion of the teachings of Hermes Trismegistus and outlines seven principles on which it is based." This is a more or less completely unfounded statement in a couple of respects. Who exactly believes it to be part of Hermes Trismegistus' teachings? How many people? For that matter, it makes it sound like there is a coherent body of teachings attributed to Hermes Trismegistus, and this is really not the case. And lastly, looking through some of the actual, very old texts attributed to the guy, I doubt you'll find these "seven principles". This is a bad way to open up the article, and it needs to be replaced with some factual information, at minimum framing these statements as part of the book's claims. --67.185.40.164 04:31, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

I'm looking forward to editing this page heavily. To answer some of these old questions.... The book is dedicated to Hermes, and in only this respect is it included into Hermeticism, as far as I can tell. Its a newer (if you were living in 1912) take on the older texts. I'm not sure how many people concider this Hermeticism, since that would be a subjective answer. A NPOV will be thrown onto the page, so anything making it sound like there was a "coherent body of teachings" will be noted. And I'm sure a few of these principles are spread out through the many texts "attributed" to Hermes. :)

Zos 06:51, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm actually getting ready to take out the part about Hermans Magical Universe.... Since I've read the Kybalion, I have seen no relationship to a book about a 7 year old finding the meaning of life. Either someone should come along and explain this relationship, or cite how it is related, and how it was "derived" from the Kybalion please.

Zos 06:30, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

I have now added more content to the page, and edited it. What I have taken off of the page will possibly be used to make a page for the authors Three Initiates. There are very few if no references to site for this book, since the book cites only itself (if read you will understand). And since the authors are officialy still unknown, there is little that should be acknowledged on this page, besides what the book says about itself! Please add more sources, if any are found to validate this book outside of specualtion.

Zos 08:32, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Derivative Works

I'd like to know how Herman’s Magical Universe is a derivative work. I'm taking it off because based on the description (here, and on Amazon.com), it doesnt classify as a derivative work. Zos 10:06, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

The Summum organization did not acknowledge being a derivative work until 2003 - Previously, when the 2 books were identical, they claimed the book was given to Ra by extraterrestrials in a genetic download. Summum published the "Kybalion Resource Page" -which is a marketing tool for the Summum church- and reworked their literature and website to reflect this new public stand of derivative status. Herman's Magical Universe, in fact, gives a weak reference to The Kybalion in the supporting literature of the book- inside the book- not to the extent that Summum is doing as a derivative work, but as the Children version of the book. Perhaps the author will, too, be forced to acknowledge the origins, or at least have the Kybalion influence more clearly defined. I hope you consider these, but if you must leave out the reference to Herman's Magical Universe, then leave also out the one to the Summum material. Leave the Kybalion page to be just for the Kybalion. Or add a page that addresses the intellectual property issue, since Summum copyrighted the book they did not write. You can find many people who are familiar with the Kybalion among secret societies who mandate its reading like the Rosicrusian, Masons, and others out there that would offer their help. Thanks.

--

I have a copy of Summum's originally published book (1988) and it clearly contains information that is not in the Kybalion. Therefore, it is incorrect to state that the two works were ever identical. I also did some research on copyrights via the copyright office website, and it says that no one can copyright material that is in the public domain (e.g. The Kybalion), however, public domain material may be used by anyone for a derivative work. In order to be issued a copyright by the US Copyright Office on a derivative work, the work must contain substantially new information not found in the previously published material. The copyright office website lists the copyright that Summum has, therefore, in order for Summum to have received that copyright, their material must contain material not found in the Kybalion, and the copyright would only extend to the new material. How do you know when Summum acknowledged its work being a derivative work? It seems to me they must have had to acknowledge that fact when they filed their copyright back in 1988. Clearly Summum has taken the Kybalion and woven new material into it. It is a derivative work and there does not appear to be any intellectual property issue based on information from the US Copyright website.

KamiLian 04:00, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Publishing date

My copy says it was published in 1912. Why does this say 1908? I see someone just re-categorized it based on 1908...Zos 00:32, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] External links

I'm removing a link to a Kybalion discussion group within Yahoo Groups. It's been removed once before as it is not encyclopedic and fall within the guidelines of Wikipedia's External links guide. Per the guide, links to discussion forums are to be avoided.

KamiLian 06:50, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Who Wrote" section revised

I have revised the "Who Wrote" section to place the most likely supposition first, followed by less likely ones. Some of the material that was previously on this page was a duplicate of the William Walker Atkinson page and has been removed -- because it fits better on the Atkinson page. I would like to suggest that the redirect from Three Initiates should not link to this page but rather to the Atkinson page, since everyone agrees he is one of -- if not all three of -- the authors.

cat yronwode Catherineyronwode 05:02, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Following cat's nice revision, I have copy-edited and cleaned up the whole article. I removed the cleanup tag as a result. I also removed a clearly spam link to "the Master Key of the Universe" or some such; the website is pure advertising. And I see no reason why Herbert Silberer was listed in See Also. (Note, other removals from See also are per WP:MOS, See also should not duplicate links from the article.) Btw, whoever wrote this, even though you'll never read my comment here, I just want to point out that you never use the word "you" in article text. :) Eaglizard 17:43, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

nb Two other things: I changed "elementary spirits" to "elemental", I'm about 85% sure that's correct, and I inserted that "the book devotes a chapter to each Principle". That is correct, isn't it? It's been many years since I read the Kybalion, it was my first real introduction to Hermeticism (as I suspect it has been for many). Eaglizard 17:55, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] rules on external linking

Before someone else decides to arbitrarily remove a link because there is some commercial activity on the site somewhere, check out [[1]]. These are the only rules I have seen about advertising, and the recent deletion of a site that gave the entire pdf of the subject matter for the reason that there is a shop somewhere on the site (which cannot be seen from the link) made me feel the need to clarify this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by King Vegita (talk • contribs) 16:24, 21 February 2008 (UTC)