Talk:KXAN-TV
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[edit] Michelle Valles and WP:BLP
I removed the bit about Michelle Valles' arrest per Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons policies. For further information, please see discussion at User_talk:ChazBeckett. Paxsimius 19:53, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
The settlement was to remove the comment from next to Valles' name on the on-air talent section, but to keep the current separate paragraph about the controversy. OddibeKerfeld (talk) 18:29, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
No, the settlement was to remove it. It still violates Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons. Paxsimius (talk) 00:58, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
- How does it violate BLP? She's a local celebrity, there are reliable reports of the incident. Further, the discussion you mentioned is buried in a talk archive and not readily accessible. —C.Fred (talk) 02:25, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
- I'm sorry, I usually don't try to handle this kind of stuff, and so I may not have all my ducks in a row. However, the main complaint has been that KXAN never addressed the issue; in fact, they have: http://www.austinchronicle.com/gyrobase/Issue/column?oid=oid:571958 Paxsimius (talk) 02:38, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
- I couldn't get the Chronicle link to open, but I'll take your word for it that KXAN finally did mention it on here. Still, the KEYE link is correct that KXAN did not address the issue on the air the day after the arrest while two of the other Austin tv stations did. OddibeKerfeld (talk) 20:03, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
- Okay, Fred Cantu's blog does not state what you say; he says only one station ran the story immediately (and not his station, btw). Next, blogs hardly count as reliable reference sources (he even states "as I know of"). Finally, you insisted this be in the article because you felt a need to call KXAN out on for not running it themselves. KXAN did run it, ran it a long time ago, and at this point your insistence to keep this in the article is beyond reason. What is your rationale today for putting it back in? Paxsimius (talk) 03:10, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
- Fred Cantu is not just a blogger. He's one of the longest tenured and most well respected media figures in Austin. This was a huge issue when she got her DUI and how KXAN did not report on it. They focus ad naseum on public figures like Cedric Benson when they are arrested, but bury any stories about their own personnel running afoul of the law. Why do you insist on removing it? You act like her agent or boyfriend. OddibeKerfeld (talk) 12:52, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
- 1) It's still there; I haven't removed it again, yet. 2) I want it removed because it is clearly nonencyclopedic, unimportant, old, irrelevant and a possible violation of WP:BLP. 3) Cantu is respected, yes, but his station didn't run it either, and he never stated two other stations did run it (as you said he did). Also, I'm not questioning Cantu or what he says; I'm saying a blog, no matter who wrote it, doesn't usually count as a reliable reference source on Wikipedia. 4) You still haven't explained why it should stay in the article, now that your original reasoning is no longer valid; KXAN ran the story and she apologized publicly, on-air (albeit not necessarily in a timely manner, but it was done). Isn't that humiliation enough? 5) You have accused me of having connections with this person before, and I have stated unequivocally that I do not have any connections to the station or Valles, nor the industry as a whole. I'm more interested in helping make Wikipedia relevant, and not an on-line scandal sheet. Paxsimius (talk) 16:00, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
- Fred Cantu is not just a blogger. He's one of the longest tenured and most well respected media figures in Austin. This was a huge issue when she got her DUI and how KXAN did not report on it. They focus ad naseum on public figures like Cedric Benson when they are arrested, but bury any stories about their own personnel running afoul of the law. Why do you insist on removing it? You act like her agent or boyfriend. OddibeKerfeld (talk) 12:52, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
- Okay, Fred Cantu's blog does not state what you say; he says only one station ran the story immediately (and not his station, btw). Next, blogs hardly count as reliable reference sources (he even states "as I know of"). Finally, you insisted this be in the article because you felt a need to call KXAN out on for not running it themselves. KXAN did run it, ran it a long time ago, and at this point your insistence to keep this in the article is beyond reason. What is your rationale today for putting it back in? Paxsimius (talk) 03:10, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
- I couldn't get the Chronicle link to open, but I'll take your word for it that KXAN finally did mention it on here. Still, the KEYE link is correct that KXAN did not address the issue on the air the day after the arrest while two of the other Austin tv stations did. OddibeKerfeld (talk) 20:03, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
- I'm sorry, I usually don't try to handle this kind of stuff, and so I may not have all my ducks in a row. However, the main complaint has been that KXAN never addressed the issue; in fact, they have: http://www.austinchronicle.com/gyrobase/Issue/column?oid=oid:571958 Paxsimius (talk) 02:38, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
So how's about this:
In November 2007 Michelle Valles, the station's evening news anchorwoman, was arrested in downtown Austin and charged with Driving While Intoxicated. She later apologized for the incident on air.
Instead of the Cantu reference, I suggest the Austin Chronicle reference, mostly because it is more recent and goes a little more in depth. Also, I would suggest moving the entry to the end of the list of Current On-Air Talent, per Wikipedia:Words_to_avoid#Article_structure. Comments? Paxsimius (talk) 03:54, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
- Since the other editors have since been online and haven't commented, I'm going to make the changes I suggested above. Paxsimius (talk) 01:34, 13 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] 3O repsonse
In response to the request for a third opinion, I've read the issues. I don't see a violation of BLP since the facts are cited to a reliable source, and the arrest is a matter of public record. To say she was drunk would be opinion, but to say that she was arrested is verifiable. The arrest itself is not pertinnet to the article about the station; however, the controversy over news coverage does make it pertinent to the operation of the station. We shoudl be careful not to editorialize -- just the facts. --Kevin Murray (talk) 20:11, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
- PAX has contacted me saying that the reference is a blog site. I can't agree with that; it appears to be a report/editorial from a recognized medium with oversight. But I'm not seeing the source verifying the statement, "The arrest lead to much debate over how the issue should be reported." While our editor may have first hand knowledge of that, we don't allow primary research and certainly not drawing conclusions from the facts. "Much" is a realtive term which implies widespread discussion, while the debate discussed here was within the staff of one competitive company. I am beginning to think that the informational value of this section is outweighed by the sensationalism. There are precedents where tabloid type issues have been removed from WP based on BLP. I would feel better if we had a citation to a specific article that discussed a widespread controversy etc. --Kevin Murray (talk) 00:08, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
- Not so much a blog site, but it is labled "blog" within a media site, written by an employee. As I understand it, that indicates it would be a place for personal remarks and opinions rather that researched facts; just my take on it. I'm beginning to see that the arrest can be a valid part of the article, but I still feel it needs to be substantiated by something relevant. I did find this: http://www.austinchronicle.com/gyrobase/Issue/column?oid=oid:571958 (paragraphs 6 - 11), however, it doesn't really go much more into it than what Cantu wrote, and is more editorial/snarkiness than anything. It does contradict what is written in the KXAN-TV entry as it currently stands. Paxsimius (talk) 02:30, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
