Talk:Kurt Angle

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Good article Kurt Angle has been listed as one of the Everyday life good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can delist it, or ask for a reassessment.
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Contents

[edit] Steve Blackman

How come Steve Blackman's involvement with Kurt during his early days after his debut not mentioned, when Kurt had that undefeated streak, Steve Blackman was the one who always kendo sticked his oponents and he Olympic Slams them for the win, I mean, they even teamed up together... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.53.222.50 (talk) 10:56, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] TNA World Champion and NWA Champion

Kurt Angle was never a NWA World Champion, he held the physical belt but he was not a NWA Champion he was the TNA Champion because earlier that day Christian Cage was stripped of the NWA Title when TNA gave up the rights to all NWA Championships. Also wouldnt Christian Cage be the first TNA World Champion since he was stripped of the NWA World title but he did in fact defend a World Championship in the triple threat match against Angle and Sting. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.88.122.114 (talk) 23:04, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

You are correct in that he never won the NWA Championship, some vandal just put that back in. If you see that again, feel free to remove it. TJ Spyke 00:38, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Actually i just read the article from the new PWI magazine thingy and they call Angle the last NWA champion in TNA--71.139.54.203 (talk) 06:25, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

PWI is not the authority on pro wrestling. NWA themselves don't recognize Angle. Gavyn Sykes (talk) 14:00, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Starting GA review

Since my only real involvement with this article has been to change a few citations I think I'm sufficiently unbiased to review this article for GA. So I'm starting the review process tonight and I'll get back ASAP with my comments MPJ-DK 21:38, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Why not include a section how Kurt is killing TNA with his backstage politics? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.49.188.37 (talk) 10:27, August 26, 2007 (UTC)

If you can find a reliable source to back up such a claim by all means, but if you can't find a reliable source to back it up it'll be removed on site since it's a WP:BLP rule violation because of it's contentious nature. MPJ-DK 12:10, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Iris Smith?

Whoever thought it would be funny to put hes married to Iris Smith, that is vandalism and you are pretty pathetic if you need to put your name under who hes married to in order to make yourself feel cool. He is married to Karen Smedley-Angle who btw needs her own page.

[edit] GA nomination on hold

[edit] Review 1

Alright I’m gonna go ahead and put this GA Nomination on hold and give people a week or so to look at all the problems I’ve encountered with this article. If the problems can’t be resolved within the week I’ll go ahead and fail it and then you can renominate once the problems are solved. Below is my inital comments, more may appear during the week but this way you can get working on improving it.

  • The lead is simply too short, please see WP:LEAD for more details
    • Y Done - expanded it Nikki311 17:29, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Major Issue: This article is written totally “In universe”, in other words it presents pro wrestling as a legitimate competition. Which when put side by side with Angle’s amateur career really jumps out at you. At times this article blurs the lines between what’s real and what’s basically scripted about pro wrestling. It just needs minor touches here and there to signal that “yes we do acknowledge that this stuff is scripted and present it as such”, if you’re in doubt then maybe check out the Bobby Eaton article that suffered from the same problems initially but had them fixed in their GA process. I cannot stress how important this is.
  • Since this is an article about Kurt Angle, the man, not just Kurt Angle the pro wrestler the “In wrestling” and “Championships and accomplishments” really should be last, after all the prose, finishing with the lists, then notes, references etc. It’s an encyclopedic entry not a wrestling profile, by having the “personal life” sections where they are now it unjustly says it’s less important than his pro wrestling career.
    • Y Done moved them around Everlast1910 20:16, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
  • There is only one source in the lead, I know it covers stuff that’s sourced later one but it needs to be sourced the first time it’s mentioned.
    • Y Done - sourced it. Nikki311 17:29, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Lead clarifier – make it either “all the championships” or “all the titles”, “championship titles” is redundant.
    • Y Done Nikki311 18:51, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
  • At various points in the text there are some independent clauses issues, not a lot but they should be addressed.
    • Y Done Nikki311 01:24, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Major There is an actual “citations needed” tag in the article!
    • Y Done - removed sentence completely. Nikki311 18:53, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
  • The “Amateur career” section have 3 citations all in all and cover less than 10% of the statements made. This needs to be addressed. His amateur accomplishments should be pretty easy to find sources for I’d imagine.
    • Y Done Nikki311 03:53, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
  • The “Extreme Championship Wrestling” section is unsourced!
    • Y Done Nikki311 04:03, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Major issue Once the article hits the WWF/E section (and TNA) it reads like a straight up results recap, nothing about his development as a character, what were the storylines that really pushed him? What happened, not just who did he beat. It’s just “he won this, then he lost that, then he feuded with this guy and beat him three times”. There is simply no flow to the text at all.
    • Y Done - I cleaned this up in the course of fixing other things. I removed matches that didn't lead to anything and added where he was pushed. I think it is better, but could still use some work. Nikki311 17:47, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Citations generally go at the end of the sentence, not in the middle of it.
    • Y Done - all citations are behind punctuation. Nikki311 16:52, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

That’s my initial findings, I may add more as I go over the article again (and please if anyone else has comments I implore you to list them here, improvement comes from input). Anything you need explained or anything just let me know, otherwise I look forward to seeing the progress on the article. MPJ-DK 16:37, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

  • I'm concerned that the article is currently not in a stable enough state to be a GA. It's still in major, radical change, on a daily basis, which contradicts one of the fundamental tenants of GA. - Philippe | Talk 03:46, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
    • Most of the changes lately have been in preparation for and in response to the GA review. Unlike most of the other wrestling articles, this one has minimal daily vandalism. Nikki311 03:53, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Review 2.1

Ok I have some of my own suggestions...

  • I know you were asked to expand the lead section, but practically copying and pasting information from the body of the article into the lead is a no no. The lead should be more of a summary of what is to come in the main article space. I don't want to read specific information in the lead, and 60 seconds later read the exact same information, presented in the exact same way, in the second paragraph of the body of the article. This is what I mean:
Lead section:
In college, he was a two-time National Collegiate Athletic Association Division I champion, 1987 USA Junior Freestyle champion, a 2-time USA Senior Freestyle champion, and the 1988 USA International Federation of Associated Wrestling Styles Junior World Freestyle champion...
Amateur career, paragraph 2:
He was a two-time National Collegiate Athletic Association Division I champion, national runner-up in 1991, and a 3-time NCAA Division I All-American. In addition, Angle was the 1987 USA Junior Freestyle champion, a 2-time USA Senior Freestyle champion, and the 1988 USA International Federation of Associated Wrestling Styles Junior World Freestyle champion.
I realise two bits of information are added in the second instance, but I still feel like I just read the same thing twice. If there is anyway to make the lead more of a summary, please attempt to do so.
  • Y Done - I think. I summarized his collegiate championships, which is what you specifically mentioned. Nikki311 21:56, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
    • Yes you did a good job here, addressing the information I brought up. I feel like the entire lead needs more of a summary feel but at the same time do not want to completely gut it to where nothing is left. If anyone else has any ideas about this, please post them. --Naha|(talk) 00:36, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Amatueur career, paragraph 3, first sentence:
Upon graduating from college, Angle continued to wrestle. In 1995, he won a gold medal at the World Championships in Atlanta, Georgia.
Why all of a sudden here, are the Olympics referred to as the "World Championships"? Are the Olympics the ONLY "World Championships" for freestyle wrestling in the world? (Seriously, are they? I honestly don't know.) If not, this should say "Olympics" instead - that is the term most used on a world wide basis.
  • It was the World Championships, though it wasn't the Olympics (see infobox for that section) Davnel03 11:25, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Wow, obvious and embarrasing mistake on my part, I knew I shouldn't have been conducting a review at 12:30AM My bad. --Naha|(talk) 14:22, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Amatueur career, paragraph 3:
January 1996, not long after Angle began training at the club, Schultz was murdered.[26]
The problem with this is that it just seems completely thrown in there. Before this sentence it talks about how Schultz was Angle's coach and then comes this sentence which is immediately followed by a completely new thought with no further mention of Schultz until waaaaaaaaay down in the "Personal life" section towards the bottom of the article. Did Schultz's murder have a profound effect on Angle? How did he handle it? Did he have to take time off from wrestling? Something, ANYTHING (that can be verified via reliable source, of course) needs to follow the "Schultz was murdered" statement. Possibly a transition from that sentence to the next regarding all the hardships Angle has faced ..murdered coach, broken neck etc.
  • Y Done - I added what info I could find. Nikki311 23:21, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
    • Nice, I really like what you did here. Interesting and informative. --Naha|(talk) 00:36, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Amateur career, pargraph 4, the term "takedown" should be wikilinked (Takedown (grappling))
    • Y Done Davnel03 11:25, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Amateur career, pargraph 5, can one more sentence of information be given about OSTRIM? I realise it doesn't have a Wikipedia article, but it is relevant that the reason Kurt Angle was asked to be a spokesperson for this particular product is because OSTRIM is marketed to people who are health concious and/or participate in sports (95% fat free, carb free, sugar free, high in protein etc).
  • Y Done Nikki311 22:08, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Its getting late so thats all I have for now, will look at the rest of the article this week. Thanks, --Naha|(talk) 05:34, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Review 2.2

  • 1999-2000
The first mention of the term "fall" is used here, but there is no explanation of what this term means. (I know what it means, and you know what it means, but people reading the article who are not familiar with wrestling may or may not, and it is our responsibility to define any terms that may be confusing). The term appears to not have its own page on Wikipedia nor does it appear in List_of_professional_wrestling_slang#F. I suggest you create an entry for this term on the slang page and wikilink it to this article.
  • On second thought, that doesn't cover the possibility of a submission. I'll make the list entry later today. Nikki311 20:25, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Y Done - added the list entry and linked to it Nikki311 21:47, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
  • 2001-2002, paragraph 2
The first time the term "RAW" is used in the entire article is in this section, however it is not wikilinked.
  • Y Done Nikki311 20:16, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
  • 2001-2002, paragraph 3
Following the legitimate loss of his hair, Angle's storyline called for him to begin wearing a wig and insulted bald people, leading to a feud with Hulk Hogan, who stripped Angle of his wig.
The tense changes in the middle of this sentence and it reads oddly. Shouldn't it be something like ...Angle's storyline called for him to wear a wig and insult bald people,...
Basically, both of the things the storyline "called for him to do" should be worded the same way.
  • Y Done Nikki311 21:50, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

Time to go again, more to come later. --Naha|(talk) 18:35, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Review 2.3

  • 2001-2002, paragraph 1, sentence 1
He kept the WWF Championship until he lost to The Rock at No Way Out.
I know we aren't going for FA status yet, but this sentence is the farthest thing from "compelling" prose I've ever seen heh. More or less, EVERYONE keeps a title until they lose it :P Thats how it works. This sentence needs a major rewording. How about something like:
Angle held the WWF Championship for almost four months, losing it to The Rock at No Way Out in February 2001. <---I'm not saying this is sentence is prizeworthy either, but it is less boring. Please improve my sentence suggestion even further if possible.
Y Done - changed to your version. Davnel03 14:56, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
  • 2001-2002, paragraph 2, sentence 1
When WCW and ECW formed The Alliance and invaded the WWF in mid-2001, Angle began an angle where he joined forces with WWF Champion Steve Austin to repel them. .
Here, it is unfortunate that Kurt's last name also happens to be common wrestling slang, and "Angle began an angle" just sounds really odd. Either reword the sentence so it can be "he began an angle" or just change "angle" to "storyline" or some other suitable alternative.
Y Done - Changed to he. Davnel03 14:58, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
I further changed it to "Kurt" ..because after you changed it to "he" I realised the sentence then read "he began an angle where he" and that sounded just as bad heh. --Naha|(talk) 16:40, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

More later, as usual. --Naha|(talk) 06:02, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Review 2.4

  • Lead
Two paragraphs in a row start with the word "after." Take out the second "after" completely, so the sentence reads Initially turning down an offer to join the World Wrestling Federation (WWF),...
  • Y Done Nikki311 23:14, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Amateur career
Two paragraphs in a row start with "upon." Change the second "upon" to "after" or another suitable word. (After graduating college...)
  • Y Done Nikki311 23:14, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Actually, there are a lot of instances like this in the article where 2 paragraphs in a row start with the same word or phrase, or two sentences in a row start with the same word or phrase ..try to reword as many of those instances as possible because it will make for a more interesting read.
  • Y Done Nikki311 19:41, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
  • There are also way too many instances throughout the entire article where its just "Angle then started a feud with <insert wrestler name here> and then lists the outcomes of the matches. This, by itself, is boring. If a feud is notable enough to mention, then there should be some information as to why the feud started in the first place.
    • Specific instance (of which there are many more): 2001-2002 (Feud with Edge), how/why did this feud start?
  • Y Done - Added the reasons why feuds started, including the feud with Edge. Nikki311 01:30, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
  • In the same paragraph with the Edge feud, shouldn't some mention be given of how "important" the "You Suck" chants became and how they caught on incredibly fast and still continue to this day (I think) outside WWE programing, on TNA? (I only watch TNA off and on and do not follow it closely like I do WWE, but when Angle first joined TNA I watched it quite a bit and saw/heard the chants on more than one edition of iMPACT). If I remember correctly, at some point during his career Angle embraced the chant and turned (or thought he did) it around to where the "you suck" chant was (or was supposed to) apply to his opponent? I'm not saying we need an "essay" on the history of this chant, but I think it is an interesting piece of Angle history and could be dealt with better in the article.
  • Y Done - Mentioned that the chants followed him throughout his WWE career. I didn't mention TNA, because I've never watched more than a couple of minutes of iMPACT, and have never seen Angle on there. I'd hate to add something that neither of us is really 100% sure of, so I'm going to leave that to someone else who knows for sure. Nikki311 06:40, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
  • In the last sentence of the 2001-2002 section, it mentions how Kurt "gained the services of Team Angle." However, after that, in the third paragraph of the 2003-2004, it says Kurt "formed Team Angle." Which is it? Was it already formed in 2001/2002 or not until 2003/2004? OR, are they different "Team Angles?" If the later is the case, it needs to be noted that this is some kind of second incarnation of Team Angle, if not, we need to get the facts straight here.
  • Y Done - eliminated the names of the Survivor Series teams completely. Nikki311 19:45, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
  • Big Issue - 2003-2004, paragraph 4. In the middle of this paragraph, out of nowhere, it says Angle feuded with Guerrero throughout 2004..
What? Who is "Guerrero"? This is the first mention of his name in the entire article and (1) his full name is not given, (2) its not wikilinked (assuming we are talking about Eddie or Chavo, there is an article) and (3) there is no background to the feud. Also, the sentence doesn't explain what "kayfabe" was "done" by Guerrero to cost Angle the match against JBL. "Kayfabe" isn't used like a baseball bat or thumb tacks, its a descriptive term. Honestly, tt almost looks as though there was probably more information about Guerrero in the paragraph at one point but got removed, and this one little tidbit was left behind to fend for itself.
(As a side note, we have got to find a better way to use the terms "kayfabe" and "storyline" in articles without them seeming like they are randomly thrown in here and there).
  • Y Done - added the info you wanted. Moreover, the terms aren't just thrown in there. They are being used to describe the action taking place. For example in the example you gave here He kayfabe cost Eddie the match. In the sentence, kayfabe is being used to describe cost, saying that the costing him the match was kayfabe, or pre-planned, and not reality. I guess it doesn't matter, though, because I modified that sentence in the article. Nikki311 20:03, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
Err, sorry I didn't meant to offend here, and maybe poorly chose my words. I just can't stand the way it reads with the way we are using the term kayfabe right now. I know its being used as an adjective, but ..I don't know, it just looks and reads really strange to me, I wish there was another way we could note storylines :( --Naha|(talk) 01:39, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

I might complete this review someday, --Naha|(talk) 20:11, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Actually, if you want to stop right there....just kidding. Nikki311 22:53, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
Hahaha, I know I know, I'm making a lot of work :P Quite honestly, its almost harder to do reviews than to just go in and fix the stuff my self ...I'm so tempted (and I flunked a couple times and gave in and made small edits), but I really need reviewing practice, and pointing stuff out like this, makes other people aware of problems (many of which are the same issues a lot of wrestling articles share) so that they might be able to pinpoint and fix the stuff themselves in the future. Its really all about awareness. *goes back to making her list and checking it twice*... --Naha|(talk) 23:00, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Review 2.5

  • Professional Wrestling Career
Following the incident, Angle began working as a sportscaster on Pittsburgh television.
How long after following the incident? Are there any more specific dates as to when he started or stopped sportscasting? Can any more detail be provided besides "Pittsburgh television" ..as in, the affiliate or something? There is also no reference for this information.
  • Y Done - No specific dates other than for a year in 1997. Nikki311 01:45, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
  • 2005-2006, paragraph 1, sentence 3
Angle defeated Michaels in an interpromotional match, which won PWI Match of the Year at WrestleMania 21.
This is the first mention of "PWI" in the article, and as such it should be spelled out (Pro Wrestling Illustrated) and wikilinked.
  • Y Done Nikki311 01:46, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
  • The phrase "triple threat match" is used 4 times in this article. However, the capitalization of the phrase changes with almost every use. The first and second times the phrase appears in the article are in the 1999-2000 and 2003-2004 sections where it is spelled both times as "triple threat match" (none of the terms in the phrase are capitalized). However, in the 2005-2006, the phrase appears a third time as "Triple Threat Match" (all of the terms in the phrase are capitalized). In addition to those spellings, in the TNA section, the phrase appears a fourth time as "Triple Threat match" (the first two terms are capitalized and the third is not). So, I suggest you figure out the correct capitalization of thise phrase and spell it the same way each time it appears in the article ;)
  • Y Done Nikki311 01:48, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
  • TNA, Paragraph 3, last sentence
The National Wrestling Alliance has not recognized this reign however, because they had stripped Christian Cage of the NWA Title earlier in the day, prior to the Sacrifice event, although TNA still recognizes Angle as a former NWA champion.
NWA not recognizing his title reign and their reasoning behind it needs to be referenced if at all possible.
  • Y Done - I added the reasoning with the best source I could find. Nikki311 18:07, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
  • TNA, Paragraph 4, sentence 2
This is the first time in the article that Chris Harris is mentioned and as such, his name should be wikilinked (Chris Harris (wrestler))
  • Y Done Nikki311 01:50, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
  • TNA, Paragraph 5
"Victory Road" and "Hard Justice" are italicized here and I don't see the names of any other PPVs, TNA or other, being italicized in the article (ok I haven't looked word for word, but doing a quick scan I don't see any other PPV names italicized). Assuming this is not intentional for some really strange reason unknowon to me, you might want to do a thorough check of the entire article yourself and make them all the same, one way or the other. I think the itallics issue is still being debated (it is in my mind anyway), but within one article, they should all be done the same way unless there is some random thing with these 2 PPVs that I just don't know about.
  • Y Done - Removed italics. Nikki311 18:10, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
  • TNA, Paragraph 5
There is no referencing in this paragraph. Not that I don't think PW articles are held to some sort of an over-referencing standard in the first place, but you might want to look into this to appease the GA/FA gods.
  • Y Done Nikki311 18:40, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Japan, Paragraph 1
By the same token, there is no referencing here ..sorry :P
  • Y Done Nikki311 18:30, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Personal life
He also had a sister who died due to congenital heart complications.
Is it known whether this was specifically a Congenital heart defect or due to Congenital heart disease? If so, source it and wikilink it please.
  • N Not done I can't seem to find anything that says which specifically. Also, I can't find any reliable sources to verify. I guess I'll just remove the information until a source can be found. Nikki311 18:23, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Personal life (please improve prose if possible)
As a whole, this section
(1) reads too much like I'm reading a bulleted list of facts and,
(2) has too many sentences that start with "Angle" as the first word.
  • Y Done - grouped all the family stuff and diversified sentence beginnings. Nikki311 01:59, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
Ok I think thats it for all the big stuff. My nitpicking will now come to an end! I hope all of this helps the article :) --Naha|(talk) 01:31, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] My take on it

I've seen a lot of improvement in this article, great work. Honestly once Naha's concerns have been addressed I'd say we'd be ready to promote it to GA (Naha would have to agree since we've ended up doing a "joint review" of the article) But kudos on the improvements so far, it's close to the finish line. MPJ-DK 10:18, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

I agree, this article has improved dramatically and I hope our help finding things that needed to be altered will aid the article in becoming GA approved and eventually FA class. However, I just added another whole section (2.5) with more suggestions for article improvement ..heh, sorry :P I think I'm done now though! :) --Naha|(talk) 01:35, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Phew! I think I'm done fixing everything. I'm still not sure how I got involved in all of this...before this review I'd never edited Kurt's article. Is it ready to be promoted or is there anything else (hopefully minor!) that I need to fix? Nikki311 18:42, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm frankly not quite sure how I decided to involve myself in it either other than seeing it needed further attention because people were wanting it to pass GA, and wondering if I'd be any good at getting someone to do my bidding reviewing an article and noting appropriate areas that could be fixed by other editors. Nikki, I'm really impressed with how you have taken our suggestions and incorporated them into this article. As much time as I (and other people) have spent on it, you have done the brunt of the work on this article revamp and I applaud you!
I'm not comfortable myself giving the go ahead to promote it or nominate it or whatever, since I've been so close to the article the last week or two; I might not be seeing something. But all my areas of concern have been addressed and fixed the best they can be, so if that means anything... :) --Naha|(talk) 21:32, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 15 greatest of all time

It took me a ling time to find a source for this, but I remember this coming up on the WWE website 2 years ago. NCAA named the top 15 college wrestlers in the 75 years of the competition's history. Mr. Angle made the cut.

link

2005 was also the 75th Anniversary Year for NCAA Division I Wrestling where Clarion’s Wade Schalles and Kurt Angle were honored as two of the top 15 wrestlers in the first 75-years of collegiate wrestling.

Cheers,

Harlan C. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Improbablyme (talk • contribs) 23:42, August 27, 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Introduction

Does anyone else think the introduction is too long. I mean does there really need to be a list of every title he won in the WWE, or that he was the four Triple Crown Champion and the Tenth Grand Slam Champion? Nenog 06:31, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

According to WP:Lead, the introduction is supposed to summarize the article. That was the way it was written in response to the on-going Good Article review (see above). Nikki311 06:35, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA Passed

Congratulations everyone after a lot of work the GA review conclusion is as follows.

GA review (see here for criteria)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose): b (MoS):
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects): b (focused):
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    a (fair representation): b (all significant views):
  5. It is stable.
  6. It contains images, where possible, to illustrate the topic.
    a (tagged and captioned): b lack of images (does not in itself exclude GA): c (non-free images have fair use rationales):
  7. Overall:
    a Pass/Fail:

The article is now a Good Article! Great work everyone, you can be proud of this one. MPJ-DK 04:47, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Nice job everyone! Major props to Nikki! --Naha|(talk) 05:07, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
Thank you. Thank you. Nikki311 13:22, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Too much slang?

Am I the only person who thinks that the article uses far too much wrestling slang? There's "kayfabe"s and "booked"s everywhere. And there's really no need for the word legitimate in this context:

"Angle lost a "hair versus hair" match to Edge at Judgment Day, and his head was shaved bald.[49] Following the legitimate loss of his hair, Angle's storyline called for him to wear a wig and insult bald people,"

For one, we know he "legitimately" lost his hair, as the article has just told us that his head was shaved. Secondly, how would one "kayfabe" lose their hair?

Just a thought

Thelegendarystm 05:24, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Actually, if you look at the Good Article review above, you will notice that it is essential for an article to be written "out of universe" in order to pass the Good Article nomination process. In other words, it has to be 100% clear that the wrestler is playing a character who's wins, loses, championships, and storylines are written out and planned in advance. In order to accomplish this daunting task, a method of writing articles using professional wrestling slang and linking those terms to the List of professional wrestling slang was devised. That way, a sentence could read "Kurt Angle dropped his title to so-and-so". Then a person can click on dropped, where the definition reads that it was pre-planned, and he didn't actually lose via talent or lack-there-of, the same with the term booked. As for the legitimate loss of hair, it was written that way, so people unfamiliar with the storyline would know that he wasn't just wearing a bald cap...that his hair was actually shaved off. I hope this answers the questions you have. If you want me to explain it further, I will. Nikki311 00:59, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
To me all the extraneous wording makes it nigh unreadable, but if that's what constitutes a "Good Article" I guess I've got no say in the matter. Thelegendarystm 03:30, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
Just to note, I've removed some of the references to "kayfabe" and "booked" - one or two should be plenty to get a feel for the subject matter, especially in relation to the word "booked" - it doesn't really matter whether it's a "real" event or not, they still lose the title. Saying he was "booked" to lose it suggests that originally he was going to lose, but didn't. --62.25.109.195 (talk) 17:12, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] TNA World Tag Team Championships

Kurt Angle won the titles by himself and then Sting won a match go gain the other half of the championship, according to TNA Wrestling themselves, this is only one reign. This DOESN'T make Kurt Angle a two time Tag Team Champion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.124.4.220 (talk) 02:07, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree with you, and don't understand how TNA can call him a 2 time tag champion. TJ Spyke 00:44, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
I agree, too, but TNA counts him as a two-time champion, so I think we should go with that. Nikki311 00:46, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

On TNA Bound For Glory, they claim Angle is an 11 time world champion...can I just not add, or do they count his amature wrestling background world championships? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.124.4.220 (talk) 22:35, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

TNA and Angle have never said how they got that 11 time world champion figure. He sure hasn't won 11 professional world titles. TJ Spyke 23:52, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

On TNA's website, they don't list him as Tag Champ period. I know he did, but maybe they'll recognize their mistake by listing him as a two time champ. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.255.253.8 (talk) 04:01, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Angle is not a 2 time tag champ, he is a one time tag champ, where he won the title, and sting was named his partner. if there is no further debate, I think it should be changed. LessThanClippers 22:26, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree, but TNA for some idiotic reason considers it two seperate reigns. TJ Spyke 22:28, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

tnawrestling.com no longer lists him as a two time tag champion, we should change it perphaps? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.255.253.8 (talk) 01:12, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wrestling Debut is wrong

This article states that Kurt Angle made his WWE in ring debut against Shawn Stasiak in 1999 but I know for a fact that this is wrong. His in ring debut was against the Godfather on and episode of Monday Night Raw. I remember because Kurt got on the Mic and said something along the lines of "What's wrong with you people! You cheer a pimp... and his hoes, but you boo an Olympic Gold Medalist." I remember this quite vividly. 10/19/2007 9:42 Pacific Time —Preceding unsigned comment added by EasyAttack (talk • contribs) 16:36, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

That's why Wikipedia isn't built on "Memories" but sources because you're wrong - his debut was against Shawn "Meat" Stasiak at the 99 Survivor Series, the match with the Godfather was the next night (check out any result site and it'll tell you the same). So what you know for a "fact" isn't a fact at all, sorry. MPJ-DK 16:56, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
Yep. His first (televised) match was at the 1999 Survivor Series on November 14, his match against The Godfather took place the next night on November 15: [1] TJ Spyke 20:43, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Karen Angle

is it time she got her own profile on this site? now that she a TNA KnockoutSupermike 20:34, 29 October 2007

I agree —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mitown (talk • contribs) 09:11, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

I agree as well. She is now more than just the wife of professional wrestler, but a valet as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xxbulldogxx (talk • contribs) 04:36, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sister's death

Can someone find another source that said that she died of a drug overdose? I read that she had a heart condition/heart disease and that's what ultimately killed her.Thanks (MgTurtle 20:43, 8 November 2007 (UTC)).

Where did you read that at? Was it a reliable source? Nikki311 20:54, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

I know that Kurt said that his family has mumerous heart problems and his sister has has multiple heart attacks.I don't have the exact source.I don't know what you would call a credible source.I just Googled it and numerous sources came up about her dying of heart problems.(MgTurtle 23:59, 9 November 2007 (UTC)).

[edit] Genesis victory

Hey just to let you guys know i'm the one who added Kurt's Genesis win cause i ordered and saw it and someone fixed what i screwed up on typing it so i want to thank who ever it was who fixed it thanks again. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Victorjordan1 (talk • contribs) 12:33, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sorry

Sorry i didn't mean to post that thing on his Genesis victory 3 times my computer's just stupid. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Victorjordan1 (talk • contribs) 12:39, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

No problem, don't be afraid to remove a post that may have been accidentally been put on here more than once. That is, if your stupid computer will let you ;). Bmg916Speak 16:59, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Theme Music

Can someone who has the information add what years, and in which promotion the different songs were used?LessThanClippers 17:37, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't have a source, but he used the original music (which used to be The Patriot's music) from his debut in 1999 until 2005 or so. They then remixed it (before he went to ECW) to take out the timing where fans chanted "You Suck!". He used his original TNA them up until he won the the TNA WHC at Slammiversary, and debuted the remixed version at the iMPACT tapings after that. TJ Spyke 17:43, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Puder

The Daniel Puder note appears pro-Puder, as if Angle is copping-out. I think it should be (1) cited, (2) noted that Puder did something wrong - he almost broke Angle's arm, which is a major "no-no" in pro-wrestling and (3) Puder's challenge and boasting is all his own internet-based promotion, a statement in a web interview, nothing serious done through any MMA company. K a r n a (talk) 23:14, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Actually, I think it should be removed until these issues are addressed. This is a GA, and there is no room for unsourced POV information in a GA. Nikki311 01:33, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
Excuse me, I cited a source from Dave Meltzer and Dave Scherer... 122.53.91.133 (talk) 16:28, 23 November 2007 (UTC)Joshua
I cited my sources, from Dave Meltzer and Dave Scherer, hope you don't delete it... 122.53.89.136 (talk) 14:47, 29 November 2007 (UTC)Joshua

[edit] Vandalism or a virus on my computer?

Everytime I open Kurt Angle's page, a close-up picture of a penis pops up onto my screen, covering the article. It happens no where else and I can't seem to revert it. I'm being serious here. If no one else is getting this problem, I must have a virus or spyware... Gavyn Sykes (talk) 16:12, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
Hmm...I clicked it again and it was gone. Meh. I'll do scan. Gavyn Sykes (talk) 16:51, 10 December 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Face Turn

Why was I not allowed to point out that he turned Face in 06?

Zack Shadow (talk) 05:47, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

He didn't turn face. He was a tweener. 142.162.207.62 (talk) 18:55, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] MMA

I searched the web and saw that he's considering to join in mixed martial arts particularly in UFC where Dana White is considering to sign him in. Any updates about this? 202.138.168.72 (talk) 21:56, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

I haven't seen anything but speculation for quite some time. TJ Spyke 02:57, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 12 time world champion?

I count nine...anyone else want to chime in on this one? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.124.4.220 (talk) 03:05, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

TNA likes to exaggerate. He's an 8-time professional wrestling world champion (4 time WWE, 1 time WCW, 1 time WHC and 2 time TNA). The gold medal in the Olypmics is another "world championship" they add to his claim. They also count the IGWP belt and his nonexistant reign as NWA Champion, bringing it up to 11. The hell if I know where they pull the last championship from, but it doesn't really matter. Gavyn Sykes (talk) 03:09, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
The last won his his freestyle 1995 World Championship win.

So it goes like this:

(TNA - 2 times) (NWA - 1 time) (WWE - 4 times) (WWE World - 1 time) (WCW - 1 time) (IWGP - 1 time) (Olympics - 1 time) (1995 World - 1 time)70.68.143.170 (talk) 09:18, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Could be. Of coarse we all know Angle isn't a 12 time world champion. TJ Spyke 09:34, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, but TNA nor the NWA recognize him as NWA Champion, so by your count, he's down to 11. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.124.4.220 (talk) 00:58, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Karen Angle

Can Somebody please finally make a page for karen angle she desereves it now as she has been a major contributor to TNA storylines in the present P.S. She's way to hot for Kurt Angle —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.155.99.200 (talk) 03:30, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Discrepancies........

2006-current and 2007-current sections may lead confussion... may someone edit it out??202.175.228.214 (talk) 15:23, 23 January 2008 (UTC)lordzeus

He works at both currently...I don't see the problem. Nikki311 15:30, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
a.. i see. well thanx for the info... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.175.231.160 (talk) 17:32, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Kurt had a try out with the Pttsburgh Steelers

It was noted in his biography. It was before he started wrestling. It's noted on his usoc.org page (http://www.usoc.org/26_602.htm).

I thought it was a good bit of info. I have no idea how all this wikipedia stuff works, so I wanted to through it out there and let y'all thta run this decide. Thanks. 76.211.230.151 (talk) 07:13, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Unnecessary Information about Karen?

"In August 2007, Karen debuted in TNA as Angle's regular valet. She has also been featured as a TNA Knockout on the promotion's website. On December 12, 2007 TNA sent out a TNA Mobile Alert stating that Karen had suffered a broken foot at that night's TNA iMPACT! tapings."

Does all of this information about Karen Angle really need to be in Kurt's entry? Hazardous Matt (talk) 22:19, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Well for awhile Karen didn't have her own page, so her information was located here. Now, the article could probably do without some (or most of it). Nikki311 22:21, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
I could see using up to the part where she became is valet, as that still relates to Kurt's professional career, but yeah, I think the remainder of it should be moved. Hazardous Matt (talk) 22:36, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Title Reigns

Since his Intercontinental Title reign is listed as WWF, why not list his WWF and WWE Championship reigns separately. Also, as his WWE title reign before or after the Brand extension? That would also factor into listing them separate, as the title lineage is not the same.  Hazardous Matt  17:30, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

Actually, the title lineage is the same. The only thing that changed was the name. I don't see how anyone could think the WWF Championship and WWE Championship are different titles. They are the SAME title, read the article on the title for more info. There is NO circumstance where the reigns would be listed separately just because the initials changed. TJ Spyke 17:40, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
I wasn't certain if his championships after the Brand extension were the World Heavyweight or WWE Championship. Technically both would be "WWE Championships" but they are two distinctly different belts. Second, if everyone is content to list the belt as "WWF/E" then the other championships should be listed the same way (ie. WWF Intercontinental should become WWF/E Intercontinental).  Hazardous Matt  17:55, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
The "WWF/E" is only done if they won the title both when the company was known as WWF and when it was WWE. Angle never won the IC Title after the company became WWE. Also, when people say "WWE Championship", it's usually meant for the belt that is name the WWE Championship (if you are talking about generic titles, it would be WWE championship If you check List of WWE Champions, Angle won the WWE Championship 2 times before the company changed itse name (May 5, 2002) and 2 times after. TJ Spyke 17:59, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
Okay. That makes a weird kind of sense. I wasn't familiar with the title policies. I've said my part, I'll let consensus and policy do the rest.  Hazardous Matt  18:01, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
No problems. If you have any other questions about policies regarding wrestling articles, feel free to ask at WP:PW. TJ Spyke 18:14, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Picture

I think there should be a newer picture This Picture is from way back in wwe land...→→→→→Joe ferst (talk) 22:31, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

It's a free pic, is really good in terms of how much you can see and how he is presented, and that is still the way he looks. No reason to change the pic. TJ Spyke 15:46, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 2006 - present, 2007 - 2008

On the main section it says "TNA 2006 - present" then "Japan 2007 - 2008" why?/clarification. Bam123456789 (talk) 21:23, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Because while still wrestling for TNA, he wrestled part-time in Japan. –Cheers, LAX 21:12, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Kurt Angle#Notes

Most of the citations are messed up in above section. They need to be fixed.--NAHID 18:59, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

I fixed it. One of the citations in the lead was missing the "/" to format it correctly, messing up every citation after it. Nikki311 22:49, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] NWA title and PWI update

I read an article from the new magazine from PWI that has Angle on the cover. In it they claim Angle to be a former NWA Champion. And if i remember correctly the BIG debate we had a while back was said "we would wait and see what PWI says"

heres the link http://www.pwi-online.com/pages/readastoryleft.html --71.139.11.251 (talk) 08:18, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't know why people get such a stiffy for PWI. A lot of editors try to pass off PWI's point of view as the official and/or superior one when it comes to professional wrestling. The simple truth is that it's not. Ultimately, the NWA World Heavyweight Championship is the property of the National Wrestling Alliance. Ultimately, they also have control over who they recognize and who they don't, not PWI or any other dirtsheet. Every title with a Wikipedia article reflects the view of the promotion or governing body that owns them, views which might not necessarily match those of PWI.Odin's Beard (talk) 00:38, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] 1995 World Championship Win

Hey I recently read Angles Autobiography again and it says he won the World title in 1995 in Atlanta, not Chatanooga, Chatanooga was a different event, i changed to table to say Atlanta--Tboneangle (talk) 22:54, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

page 93--Tboneangle (talk) 03:26, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Another GREAT accomplishment

Why do we not mention that Angle is the first person EVER to hold World Championships in BOTH Amatuer AND Pro Wrestling?--Tboneangle (talk) 01:27, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Because it is original research until you can provide a source that says that. Also, in reply to your above comment, please provide the page number so that your change can be verified. It will be reverted until the page number is given. Thanks. Nikki311 01:36, 7 April 2008 (UTC)