Talk:Kung Fu Hustle

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Contents

[edit] Axe gang references?

There's an axe gang in one of the Drunken Master movies too... is this part of some mythology/history?

Edited some of the plot information to note that he saves the town by defeating the Axe Gang and its hired assasins, not a "toad-human lifeform" (Which, by the way, The Beast wasn't.).

Actually, the Beast killed Brother Sum and Sing just beat up the rest of the Axe Gang (again). I think that the Axe Gang just took the Beast as their leader (at least to kill Landlord and Landlady) and that after sing defeated the Beast, ending the assassination attempt, the gang fell into disarray.

[edit] Intro

"Many early fight scenes were packed with real Chinese martial arts."

Shouldn't that be:

"Many early fight scenes were packed with real Chinese martial artists."

I think it's referring to the number of martial arts, not the practicers -tinlv7

tinlv was right. I wrote that paragraph originally back in Aug 2005. I meant to say many different disciplines of martial arts, such as fists, kicks, staff, qigong etc. I never meant martial artists. Kowloonese 23:13, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lame "Powers" text

I've removed the following text:

NOTE: These slightly exaggerated special abilities were mentioned in a U.S. advertising campaign for the movie.
  • Sing: Blasts running speeds up to 250 mph. Busts through metal, copper, and granite. Flies at 32,000 feet above ground.
  • Sing's Sidekick: Eats a 12 course meal in 3.3 minutes flat. Creates earthquakes of 8.8 on the Richter scale. Crushes any man or woman in his seating path.
  • Landlord: Kisses and accosts women at speeds of 132 mph. Cowers in fear from wife.
  • Landlady: Speeds at 252 mph to form dust clouds 104 feet high. Screams at 3,031 decibels that have made men's ears bleed.
  • Brother Sum: Killer breath can bring any man or woman to their knees. Dances until his feet bleed.
  • The Beast: Transforms body into a slimy bullfrog. Possesses the fastest kung fu fighting style ever.
  • Donut: Slams foes with his baking rod at 153 mph. Forms tornadoes 200 feet high with winds of 354 mph.
  • Tailor: Deadly steel rings can knock down evildoers and evil spirits. Delivers blows at 143 mph.
  • Coolie: Can kick the assses of 45 men while carrying 28 sacks of grain. Literally kicked the crap out of a man with a force of 167 mph.
  • Lollipop Girl: Scoops ice cream with deadly precision. One stare into her lollipop will make you relive bad memories.
  • #1 Killers (a.k.a. The Harpists): Can strum ghosts and knives at 200 mph from their harp. Can decapitate with a single strum of a chord.

I'm glad the "NOTE" is there, but it's not enough. I'd love to see a section about the various characters and their powers, but the above is poorly written and not even accurate to the film. Maybe someone can rework it? --Staecker 05:21, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

  • I'll get around to it when I have the time. That text doesn't even mention the name of their martial arts. Landlord practices Taichi, Landlady practices Lion's Roar etc etc. CABAL 18:27, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I've gotten around to smashing it up a bit, complete with pictures. Comments? CABAL 11:02, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

  • Looks great! thanks --Staecker 18:39, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • I questioned whether this "U.S. advertizing campaign" actually took place. I have not seen that myself. Perhaps I wasn't looking. I am glad it was removed because even if the source can be verified, it was not accurate anyway. Kowloonese 01:06, Jun 21, 2005 (UTC)
  • Thanks to whomever added the Chinese names and sources for the martial arts. On another note, who the hell came up with all that nonsense for this American advertising campaign, if it ever existed? CABAL 14:19, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] staffs

Are you sure that the staff is 五郎八卦棍? Seems wrong to me, but I might be wrong, too. (The Chinese characters in question are a staff set in Hung Gar and some other arts.)

  • Why would anyone, let alone a martial artist, use a set of purpose-built melee weapons as baking rods in the first place? CABAL 11:58, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
When the #1 killers were in the Ax gang's headquarter negotiating the "contract", they sized up the project and mentioned each of their opponents' specialty kung fu techniques in Cantonese. Yes, indeed, Hung Gar was mentioned then. Also when the three masters were standing on the stairway right before sunset, they praised each other of their masterful skills and each type of kung fu was announced in Cantonese. I don't know which language edition you watched so the name of the kung fu might have been lost in translation. Since the director is Cantonese, I will go by the Cantonese edition. These kung fu masters are like hermits in hiding. Their weapons are in disguise too, I think. Kowloonese 21:01, Jun 24, 2005 (UTC) - revised Kowloonese June 28, 2005 20:47 (UTC)
I got the Mandarin edition. The differences indeed alter the names of the martial arts. Donut's martial art is rendered either as "Eight Trigram(s) Spear" or "Eight Hexagram(s) Spear" depending on which DVD you watch. CABAL 06:17, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
  • Trigrams is correct. Hexagram refers to the 64 symbols of the I Ching. There's no such thing as 'eight hexagrams'.--CharlieHuang 21:15, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hong Kong poster

Why can't we use the Hong Kong poster instead of the lame US design?

I have seen one of the many Hong Kong posters used in the Netherlands, and even when I was on the Dutch Antilles.

[edit] Napoleon Factor

This movie is like Napoleon Dynamite-- The audience loves it, even though there's actually nothing to it but clichés which literally get the shit beat out of them (as do most things in this movie).

To be fair, Napoleon Dynamite's bullettime scenes were only in how slow the characters thought. All of them, multiplied together, gets an IQ of less than 50.

Is this the new style? To have something suck so badly (saving special effects) that people can't help but love it? I am going to kill someone; this is the new blockbuster style.

And before anyone starts trying to find out where I live, so they can hunt me down, I will reinforce that crochety old man persona with these parting words:

Pfeh! Bah humbug! Hrmph!

Good day, sir.

...no, nonononononjesusfuckingchristno! Don't say anything. Think first this time.

I said good day, sir.

Why don't you ignore the silly parts of the movie and just enjoy the fight scenes. They are great Kung Fu by some real martial artists. The moves are still great despite the computer enhenced imagery. BTW, this is not new style. Stephen Chow has been doing this kind of silly movies for decades. It is the opposite, the Western audience is new to his mo lei tau style. If you don't like it, just ignore it the same way you ignore all his other movies. Kowloonese 21:59, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hidden plots?

- sing is the lost child of the landlord and lady - he was the same age as their son and could be a doctor or a lawyer. they thought he was killed by their enemies but due to sing's special ability of fast healing (like wolverine and the saiyans) and escaping certain deaths (cobra bites, beast's beating), he survived


- during beatings, sing acquires some kind of amnesia which probably caused him to forget his parents, slightly forget the girl, the snake bites


- he was trained by the 2 masters and surpassed them which was not shown in the movie. it might be implied since they were seen with cervical collar (wooden)and skeletal support as sign of beating to a fast learning kung fu genius


- the bum offered a FAT CHILD with kung fu pamphlets in a 1940s setting - could it be the secret to samo hungs martial arts prowess?

[edit] Anti-gay scenes

In the Cantonese version of the movie, the taylor was laughed at as "屎忽鬼" which is the slang for gay. The English subtitle translated it as "fairy" which is also a slang of the same meaning. The characters also laughed at the taylor for wearing a red underwear. And he whimpered "Wearing red underwear is not a sin". I am not sure if the same scenes made it to the US screens or DVDs because these could be controversial topics in the Western market. Kowloonese 01:47, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

So black slaves can not be called "Negro" in a Civil War movie?--Skyfiler 18:04, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
The two situations are quite different. You cannot make a Civil War movie without mentioning the slaves because the US civil war was about liberating the slaves. Besides Negro was the name for the slaves at the time. It later became pejorative to call someone Negro after slavery had been abolished. However, Kung Fu Hustle can do without an effeminate taylor with a pejorative nickname. 屎忽鬼 literally means the "shit hole daemon" which is very offensive choice of words to insult a gay man. The screenplay writer only wanted to ridicule this character to create some comic effects for the movie. Depending on cultural differences, it may generate a good laugh in China. But as I've pointed out in the original posting, the same scene may be very offensive to the Western audience. I heard that SONY has cut out many gory scenes from this movie in the US edition. I was just wondering if they also censored out this particular sensivity scene. Kowloonese 20:19, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
So black slaves can not be called "Negro" in a Civil War movie? That makes no sense at all. There's a difference between using a word in a historic sense and using it for a inflammatory sense. Obviously if you are making a piece set in a time period where one word is a common word that's been since replaced you can't swap them. Perfect example besides your Civil War movie, M*A*S*H*. One episode in particular dealt with a medication that couldn't be given to "negro soldiers" because of side effects. The show took place during the Korean War but was filmed in the early 80s. They had to use negro even if by the 80s it wasn't as accepted a term.
The same goes for gay references. Obviously if it's a movie about Stonewall or Laramie there will be some slurs thrown out and some scenes of violence against gays. As a historic reference though it has to be shown. However, if it's a movie about some punks that run around beating up gays at will and calling everyone "fags" simply for shock value of making him look tough, then it's considered offensive.
The scene where she calls him a fairy is still there as is his crying and saying it wasn't a sin. As far as gory scenes go, Since I haven't seen the movie in it theatrical release I'm not sure if it differs from what I have on DVD. I say this because I know that the theatrical release of Shaolin Soccer was horribly cut but the DVD restored it. There are some scenes that are somewhat gory.--Skeev 22:02, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
Even if you try to look at it that way, I think you're missing the point of the whole movie. The hidden message behind all of the comedy and outlandish characters is that masters can be found in the most unlikely of places, and be the people we least expect. Specifically with Donut, Coolie, and especially the Tailor, they show three average people, and what we'd think to be the least likely of masters, and when it came down to it they were noble and quite powerful. Just because he was gay doesn't mean he was weak by any means, and that's what they were getting across with this. He puts up with the hate and slander and all yet still fights for whats right. They go further with this when they show the Landlord and his wife, that they're hiding form that responsibility, and then the Beast even, who looks like a guy that just got off of work and would probably be sitting on his couch eating hot pockets. It's the context of how the word is being used that tells you what the purpose is. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Firestorm117 (talk • contribs) 03:57, 20 January 2007 (UTC).

I actually thought this movie was pro-gay, by bringing in gay characters and having the land lady treat them equally the same as she treats everyone else. JayKeaton 03:04, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Gu Qin

I'm changing Guzheng to Gu Qin because the song that was played during the Harpist battle was called "The Blade of Gu Qin"

  • It's not strictly a guqin because it it organologically incorrect. The guqin does not have bridges. The 'instrument' in the film is a semi-hybrid of guqin (the main body of the instrument) and guzheng (the bridges and the sound). --CharlieHuang 21:11, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

of course it isn't a proper quqin or guzheng, what type of quqin/guzheng can shoot out machetes,and be pluckd with such a force with bear hands that it can make projections like fists or skeletal soldiers. user:wongdai 16:32 31 march 2007

[edit] Matrix references

In addition to the Agent Smith/Neo fights, the Landlady also make a remark that Sing is The One, also a reference to Neo.

Neo is "one" scrambled. Sing means "single" in this case. :-) Kowloonese 21:57, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
It took me a bit to understand what that meant, I never noticed that. So, besides the name similarity they also are both considered "the one" as in the one that would destroy the evil (machines/the Beast)--Skeev 21:58, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
The "single" part was just a joke. Stephen Chow's Chinese name is 'Sing' and the characters he plays in his movies are often called "Sing" independent of any Matrix reference. Kowloonese 01:37, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
Also the twin looking assassins, the experts and the respective master, the end of the movie super power up, its all very matrix esque, i kinda like the idea of an asian matrix...
Unless someone can come up with a credible source that indicates that KFH deliberately references the Matrix, this bit of original research should be cut out of the article. The source provided is nothing more than an amatuer article where the author argues that there's a link. The idea of "The One" did not start with the Matrix. Plus, the one vs. hundreds fight sequence is closer to old Jackie Chan movies....like the drunken master one in which he fights the hatchet gang than it is the Matrix.
That particular reference is not the only one that mentions the Matrix. I've added another one, this time, written by a Professor of a Taiwanese University that also mentions it. Hence it's not OR.--Kylohk 13:30, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
1. I think the references should be in English. 2. it's not enough to show that someone else has the opinion. It has to tie back to the movie or the creators in some way. Stop vandalizing the page. jmscstl
Now, references need not be in English, otherwise, there may be systematic bias in covering a subject. Also, university papers and professional reviewers are considered reliable sources per WP:RS, since universities are in general credible, and that site is an authoritative critic on martial arts films, hence at least one satisfies WP:RS. However, I won't revert the page for now, to avoid a violation of the WP:3RR. And a third thing, OR refers to edits which are of derived ideas which do not have reliable sources. However, in this case, that offending sentence does have 2 sources for them, and external secondary sources aren't considered to be OR.--Kylohk 15:18, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
I agree that Wiki-contributors often overreach when they use the word "reference." While the scenes in movies may at times be similar, it is not a true reference unless it was done on purpose by the film creators. Critics, fans or even University professors can draw all the similarities they want, but it is only a reference if the creators say so. Show me a citation from the film's creators and you can accurately say one film "references" another. Otherwise you should only say that one scene is 'similar' to another. 192.88.212.43 18:35, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
Not only that but the proximinty of the two movies makes it unlikely that it's an actual reference to the Matrix. As for saying the scene is similar...again, there are many, many, many similar scenes in other movies. The idea of "the one" is everywhere (Luke is the one for crying out loud) and fight scenes with 1 vs 100s are common. jmscstl

The article did not mention about "The One". The Matrix reference only constituted one sentence. Many professional reviewers of the film (check RottenTomatoes), talk about how they parodied this and that. Although they may not be explicitly stated by the producers, hence written out with the reviewers' deductive reasoning, they are not edits to Wikipedia. Therefore, they constitute WP:RS and is not original research. Had the reviewers directly edited the article, without any other means of backing them up, it's OR. Also, had the facts always require the producers' words to be true, by your logic, many films' articles would have content that is not intended to be there. This is why WP:RS is written so as to allow external sources of reasonable authority to the subject at hand.--Kylohk 07:19, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] fictious city or Shanghai?

The scene with the street car is a movie set commonly used to depict Shanghai in the 1930's or earlier era. Back then, there was not many places in China that had that kind of buildings and traffic conditions. People grew up in Shanghai probably can identify which cross street that was. Despite there was no mention of where the city was, the street scene positively identified Shanghai. Likewise, do you have to spell out New York, NY after you show the Empire State building? Kowloonese 00:40, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

I noticed that one reason why Shanghai was changed to fictious city was because of the Cantonese spoken by the residents there. If the same logic applies, then the story in the Memoir of a Geisa took place in a fictious English city because the residents there spoke English. Kowloonese 00:54, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Possible Slip up?

This movie is set around the 1930/40s. In one scene, Sing flashes back to his childhood; assuming Sing is in his late twenties/early thirties in this movie, and assuming he was no more than 9/10/11 in the flashback, the flashback took place around 1910 or 1920, however powerlines are clearly visible in the background. I'm not sure if 1920s Hong Kong had bulk power grids and power lines like that. --67.181.131.193 07:03, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

The street cars and the street scenes looks more like Shanghai than Hong Kong. I believe back then Hong Kong was just a rural village compare to the big Shanghai metropolitan. Kowloonese 22:51, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Does suspension of disbelief come to mind? I don't think the producers expect you to actually care. --69.109.44.79 05:30, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Whatever the case may be, regarding the city, one thing is perfectly clear: The setting is most definitely not the 1930s! Look at the cars that were in the movie. I recognize many of those cars from 1946, 1947, 1948, 1949 and even 1950! The setting in this film is most definitely 1947-50, just before or after Chairman Mao's rise to power.

[edit] Axe Gang

Does a version of the Axe Gang appear in Project A II? I know it's in Drunken Master 2.--MythicFox 02:11, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Anyone know the real history of Shanghai back in the 1930s? Was the Axe Gang a real group back then? Many Chinese gangster movies are set at the same time and same place so some of the characters may be based on some historical figures. Kowloonese 22:47, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Land Lord and Land Lady relations...?

In the statement : "The landlord and landlady are Yang Guo and Xiao Long Nü from Jinyong's The Return of the Condor Heroes. " Maybe I missed something, but how are those two related to the Yang Guo and Long Nu characters?

The screenwriters of the original Cantonese version named these two characters after Jinyong's characters. They are not related except the names. These names are not preserved in the English translation of the movie, so the info should be put in the trivia section at best. Yang Guo and Xiao Long Nu are devoted lovers and they are very nice to each other. On contrary, the Land Lady abuses the Land Lord. I guess the screenwriters use the names to add some comic effects for the Cantonese audience. Kowloonese 22:33, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Hahaha, a friend lent me the movie. It had a weird transalation. When the Beast and the Landlords were going to start the fight, the Beast asked them: "Who are you? A pair of fighting lovers?" Then the LandLady answered, "Yes, we're Paris and Helen from Troya" Paris and Helen are two mythological figures from greek literature.

- Account less user, 05 March 2007

[edit] One move done by the Harpists...

There was one part where Donut had his staff in his hands and was right in front of them. They strummed their instrument and broke his staff. They then sent out another attack (green colored) as Donut made an "X" type hand shape which guarded it. What was the attack?

Do you mean those ghostly soldiers in Chinese armours? The computer imagery remind me of the final scene in Raiders of the Lost Ark. Kowloonese 22:44, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
I know what you mean. I also dont know what was the attack he blocked with the X shape. But it was a light attack, since it just made Donut to fly back and get injured his hands misteriously. Maybe the harpists attacked that part of the hand so Donut couldn't grab a pole weapon again. - Account less user, 05 March 2007

[edit] hustle

what does "hustle" exactly mean in the title?--Sonjaaa 01:23, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Among other things, I believe it's the dance the Axe Gang performs in the opening.--129.15.228.160 22:25, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

It could also be taken to mean "to cheat or trick," as Sing and his partner do during the beginning of the film. The hermit basically "hustled" Sing with the pamphlets, even though it turned out they were of some value. That's what I took beyond the dance allusion. Cybertooth85 04:21, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] romanization & redirects; no mention of deaf woman?

Hi,

According to www.sonyclassics.com :

  • Chan Kwok Kuen = Chan Kwok Kwan
  • Lam Chi Chung = Lam Tze Chung

I also added a redlink to the actress who plays Sing's deaf love interest, according to the same site. No mention of her in this article??

--Ling.Nut 20:45, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Regarding today's triple revert

I've reverted 3 edits made by anons and a user because:

  • The first edit is incorrect: God of Cookery contains a serious tone at the end.
  • The second edit removed detail from the plot, whereas it is already concise enough according to The WikiProject Films.
  • The third edit again is incorrect, Chow has chosen to avoid using modern music at all costs in the fight scenes, so no Matrix music in the film.

Thank you for your attention.--Kylohk 09:31, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] HK release date?

Does anybody know what the movie's release date was in HK itself? Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 14:16, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

The release date is December 23, 2004.--Kylohk 15:06, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
It was released in Canada before it was in HK? Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 15:14, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
World premiere at Toronto International Film Festival, before general release in Hong Kong and other territories. — WiseKwai 18:03, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
Yes, it goes with many films. The world can get a very advanced glimpse into it when they attend those film festivals. So get ready to buy tickets for the next event in Cannes!--Kylohk 19:47, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA nomination

OK - I feel it passes all criteria but there are just a few very minor issues below:cheers, Cas Liber | talk | contribs 02:00, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

  • minor quibble - . Their team has performed extensive tests on various scenes that can be depicted by CGI before filming started.

Should be ". Their team had performed extensive tests on various scenes that could be depicted by CGI before filming started."

cheers, Cas Liber | talk | contribs 01:44, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

  • Huang did not face any pressure during the shooting of Kung Fu Hustle. -could probabl lose this sentence as it doesn't add any meaning to the article. cheers, Cas Liber | talk | contribs 01:50, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
  • ..the Axe Gang, which storms the alley. - should be "..the Axe Gang, which storm the alley. " cheers, Cas Liber | talk | contribs 01:52, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

All done. Thanks for reviewing the article. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 02:19, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Kungfu Hustle 2 hoax

In Indonesia, there was a DVD titled "Kungfu Hustle 2". Although the cast were the same (the beast, the axe gang leader and the fatty one is also there), there are no parodies. Then i started to realize this is a hoax, as i didn't find the information anywhere, even wiki. Perhaps it was another movie renamed into this movie's sequel. Should we write this in the trivia page or not? In case several people got it too... Reinn 10:36, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

  • Note that Wikipedia is not for original research. What you say may be true, but unless it's backed up by reliable sources, you should not add it to Wikipedia.--Kylohk 18:18, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Because, the REAL Kungfu Hustle 2 is still in the production. According to IMDB, it is planned to release in 2008, which is no way it's out now. Afterall, in the movie, there is no Stephen Chow (Sing). If you need more evidence, wait till i scanned the DVD's cover. Reinn 03:47, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
  • You may consider mentioning such a copy on the article on piracy, since it's more related to that than the movie itself.--Kylohk 09:58, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
Uh huh. Turns out the actual movie titled "Kung Fu Fighter". Reinn 07:34, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
There are lot of examples of pirated unknown movies re-titled (by the perpetrator) as fake sequel of famous movie. The M.O. has long existed as far as I know back to late 90s when VCD started to become popular in South East Asia. I still one of the earlier example was a fake sequel of Armageddon in 1999 ( I wasn't tricked but lot of my friends in Indonesia got tricked). I don't think that kind of information can be included in wikipedia Kunderemp 18:09, 25 August 2007 (UTC)


==STOP ERASING REAL INFORMATION! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.125.227.72 (talk • contribs) 2007-06-16 22:14:16

  • Ok, the film is really in production, but it's a better idea to add the information by creating its own article (and adding an upcoming film tag).--Kylohk 08:51, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Some notes on edits

Here are just some points which I would like to mention, regarding recent good faith edits.

  • Please consistently use British English in the entire article, the film is made in Hong Kong, which uses British English.
  • Also, in the Parodies and References section, please only add content that is related to the Cantonese language version of the film. I've watched the film in the English dub, and they aren't saying exactly the same things as the original version. The original version should be the one that's considered to be "correct", since it can be certain that those are Stephen Chow's own ideas. Thanks.--Kylohk 10:48, 9 July 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Kung Fu Hustle 2

there is one going to be made in 2008, so live with it. It has a spot on the IMDb. So there is going to be one, so stop erasing the true information. -CharliTa 06:59, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

  • All right, it's now properly sourced, so it's appropriate to include the information about the sequel. No need to get work up over such matters.--Kylohk 11:04, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Yuen Qiu age

According to her IMDB bio[1], she starred in that James Bond movie at the age of 24. Is there another source that says she was 18 when she was in that movie? Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 05:52, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

  • Yes, there was, it was said by herself in Sina, that she was only 18 when she appeared in that Bond film.--Kylohk 06:10, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
    • Do you happen to have a link for that so we can add it in as a reference? Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 06:13, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
      • Reference 19 covered that already.--Kylohk 06:19, 3 August 2007 (UTC)