Talk:Kuban People's Republic

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[edit] Reverts

I seriously can't understand User:Bandurist, including the statement of some exiled politician. I mean, Don would have joined Ukraine, Kavkaz would have joined Ukraine. От такого аппетита не лопнете? I mean if we were to make a section on what if for every article it could have well been different. Why don't I add to the UNR article if Petliura chose to side with Denikin under his promise of autonomy, and same with Makhno there could have been a similar conclusion to the Civil War. How can anybody predict what could have happened? How is that important to the article? Also I fail to see the relevance of History of Urkaine article. The "union" was nothing but a political one and very short lived, a similar union was concluded with Georgia, yet we don't have a History of Georgia article. --Kuban Cossack 13:00, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

The article is a truncated translation of the article from the Ukrainian Wikipedia. The use of information by an exiled politician who was a member of the said government of the Kuban National Republic is valid. If it was from some secondary source it could have be found questionable. The fact that these questions were put forward and were acted upon are important. This is information which would not be found in Soviet sources and indeed many Russia sources dealing with this particular subject. The fact that the Ukrainian population of the Kuban had ethnic Ukrainian national aspirations at that time is normal. These aspirations continued to grow and were enhansed during the period of Ukrainizations with the tragic results of the 1930's. The fact that this republic had a Ukrainian speaking administration and had aspirations to join the UNR, and that much of its administration sided with the Ukrainians attest to the inclusion of this subject within the scope of Ukrainian history. It is relevant.Bandurist (talk) 21:08, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Although I do agree that this information is important and valid, I suggest the appropriate sources are listed in this article. The fact that it is translated from a Ukrainian wiki has no bearing on English WP. The sources have to be presented irrespective of other Wikipedias. In my view this is merely a technical issue, as presenting sources to support pro-Ukrainian aspirations of the Kuban Ukrainians is not a problem. However, if there are issues, the article can be tagged either NPOV or No Sources. Please do not remove the information, it can still be supported by reference from valid sources. --Hillock65 (talk) 22:22, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Which exact information? The information on how one person makes hypothesis on what could have happened had Denikin not dissolved the Rada. Well why don't we add to the Russian Civil War on what could have happened if all anti-Bolshevik forces instead of fighting each other, could have forgot their differences and moved against Trotsky and his terrorist regime. I mean we could also add to the relevant sections on what could have happened if the Swedes won Poltava, or if Cathrine II did not dissolve the Zaporozhian Host, or if Khmelnitsky chose not to join Russia. Seriously there is a legacy section, and its worth adding that some Ukrainian historians and chauvinists consider this republic as a pro-Ukrainian group (even though apart from Ukraine it made even more "real" alliances with the Dem Rep. of Georgia, yet there is no History of Georgia article). Hillock does point out a valid problem that there are endeed no sources, and those like the link to ukrnationalism are not acceptable to wikipedia. --Kuban Cossack 16:00, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Bandurist, in order to avoid lowering myself to your level of an edit warrior I will give you a few days to sort out the article if you are actually keen on doing so, otherwise I will probably merge it into a History of the Kuban or Kuban in the Russian Civil War. --Kuban Cossack 16:01, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Please remain civil and mind WP:NPA. If anyone wishes to move or merge this article a proper request should be filed and editors' consesnus sought. Please no WP:OWN here. --Hillock65 (talk) 16:18, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Huh, if anything about consensus and WP:OWN then please ensure that the message reaches Bandurist. --Kuban Cossack 16:29, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] KNR National anthem

As it stands now, none of the references state what was the anthem of the Kuban People's Republic. The first one mentions Kuban in general, not a word about the Kuban People's Republic. Second one is totally irrelevant and is about the anthem of Krasnodar Krai, not the Kuban People's Republic. The question is still unanswered, what was the anthem of the Kuban People's Republic? Not any other republic but this particular one? --Hillock65 (talk) 19:14, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

The Kuban Rada was the body which administered the Kuban Republic, and the second refrence does explicitely state: Сначала песня исполнялась в небольшом кругу фронтовиков. Через год-два ее запели все кубанские подразделения действующей армии. В период гражданской войны она была официальным гимном Кубанской рады. . Anything else you require? --Kuban Cossack 19:18, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Two things, please make an effort to provide references in English for the benefit of English speaking community at the English Wikipedia. And secondly, somehow I fail to find the Kuban People's Republic metnioned anywhere in the text. Even the "find" option in Windows comes out empty. We are not talking about Rada and Krai, I thought the title of this article was somewhat different. --Hillock65 (talk) 19:30, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

The same refrence states: Опережая развитие событий в Петрограде, заседавшая в конце сентября-начале октября II -я краевая Рада провозгласила себя верховным органом не только войска, но и всего Кубанского края, ... После того, как одновременно начавшиеся 1 ноября 1-я сессия Законодательной Рады и часть 1-го областного съезда иногородних объединились, они заявили о непризнании власти Совнаркома и на паритетных началах сформировали Законодательную Раду и краевое правительство. 8 января 1918 г. Кубань была провозглашена самостоятельной республикой, входящей в состав России на федеративных началах.. Any more concerns? Or do you wish a third opinion on this case? --Kuban Cossack 19:40, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

That's right. I still fail to see the words Kuban People's Republic anywhere in this foreign language text, either bold or italics. --Hillock65 (talk) 19:47, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

What other republic do you see? There is a Soviet one mentioned later on. The only two republics that existed in the Kuban during the Russian Civil War was the KNR and the Kuban Soviet Republic. Please use a bit of Common WP:SENSE here. --Kuban Cossack 19:50, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

OK. Whatever. I don't wanto to waste any more time on this. Please don't include references to the Krasnodar Krai anthems, they are irrelevant here. --Hillock65 (talk) 19:57, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Well they are irrelevant in the time sense, but as it is an identical anthem musically they are quite relevant. In any case thanks for your "input" into this article... --Kuban Cossack 20:01, 12 March 2008 (UTC)