Category talk:Kuban

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[edit] Category:Kuban

Can you please explain why do you insist that my home region is historically Ukrainian? I can tell you that it is not. This alibi "part of Ukraine in 1918" is incorrect. First of all it was not part, but a military alliance, nothing else. Second by "it" I mean a narrow minority of thousands of short lived separatist entities that were eventually destroyed by the Red Army. Competing with the Kuban Cossack Rada was the Kuban Cossacks that fought for Denikin and the SNK, both which exponentially outnumbered those allied to the Rada. It's like saying that just because the Czechs that fought for Tsar in the first world war - Bohemia is now a historical Russian region. So in any case we can say that the Rada was hardly representetive of the Kuban people (all of my great great grandfathers fought in the ranks of the Red Army).

Now then about the demographics which "has Ukrainian language and culture", then the population of the Kuban that is Ukrainian is 2% of the total. Moreover whilst our Cossack balachka is indeed influenced by, it is nonetheless but a hybrid of 18th century Ukrainian with modern Russian, and the amount of Russian volcabulary is dominant, even in traditional songs and mid-19th manuscripts. Moreover one can view authentic 19th century chronicles and not a single word in Ukrainian. As for genetically then we are a big kasha (give the war brides + the interhost marriages + the fact that original Zaporozhian Cossacks was not only of Malorussians but also of Belorussians as well as others...). In terms of composition of the population then you might like to read this [1]...i.e. the most common surnames in Kuban are still Ivanov Petrov and Sidorov (Smirnov, Ivanov, Kuznetsov to be more precise) and the amount of -enkos and -chuks are the same as in other Russian province (if not lower). Finally wrt to culture - where in the Ukraine are you going to find people that wear Cherkesskas, dance Lezginkas and on a warm night sing Любо братцы любо whilst during the day fly around the steppes swinging their shashkas?

So I recommend you stop adding that category, because not only is this category the cat itself is questionable on what it stands for (I mean would Crimea, Taurida, New Russia or Donbass be classed as historical Ukrainian regions? They would be traditional geographic because they are part of modern Ukraine...but historical?), but also because its Original research as well. Regards --Kuban Cossack 13:48, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

I was looking for a Category to fit Kuban region with its Ukrainian heritage. First of all this region was settled by Ukrainian Cossacks from Zaporiz'ka Sich after it was abolished by the Russian empress Catherine II. Fact of reunion with Ukraine in 1918 is needed to describe separately. Denikin's party, as is generally known were of interests of linear cossacks within Kuban. Denekin did not put the task creation of the state Kuban, what Kuban Rada did on the contrary. February, 16th 1918 Independent Kuban People Republic was proclaimed on today's territory of the Krasnodarsk kraj, and part of Stavropol kraj; in a few days an association with Ukraine was proclaimed. Historically we have a fact of short period of one state with Ukraine and the independent local most ethnicaly Ukrainian state and in 1918-1920 and fact of autonomous life of Kuban Cossacks (fofmer Zaporozhians) in 1792-1920 in military-public organization the Kuban Cossack army.

• Before the Stalin's censuses, censuses of 1897 and 1926 show majority of population Ukrainians - descendants of Ukrainian cossacks of Zaporizhya's Sich. That Stalin made Kuban Ukrainians to be filed as Russians after famine that killed up to 50% Ukrainian Kubanian. That state crime does not make to forget about Kuban root.
• Some famous Ukraine-Kuban integration persons: dictator of Ukraine Simon Petlura was Kubanian. Mykola Grushevsky - first president of Ukraine lived in Kuban, Mykola Ryabovol - Chairman of Kuban Rada and Kuban Force Rada.
• Numbers of Russian last names that set first ranks among Kubanians does not prove it is etnicaly Russian region. In Ukrainian city of Dniepropetrovs'k with 2 million people and 75 % Ukrainians you can see highly ranked Russian last names Ivanov, Petrov, etc. It is only proving wider diversity of Ukrainian last names.
• Resuming. Category Kuban I added to Ukrainian histirical regions to emphasise its strong connection to Ukrainian History, culture and nation. I did not find better one.
• Let be blessed by God your home land Kuban. Best wishes.--Vladyslav Savelo 06:17, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Whilst the Sech was abolished, most of the Cossacks willingly settled to the Kuban, and today we thank Matushka for doing so. The loyalty of Kuban Cossacks to the Russian throne was extreme, people called us Верные Запорожцы as to separate those that went to the Danube. Moreover it was us who made up the Imperial personal guard and its Kuban peoples that make up the majority of the present Kremlin guard (Кремлевский Полк).

Now what happened in 1918 was a political struggle, it was horrible actually because occasions when brothers faced brothers in battle are noted, not just in Kuban but in all of our large and massive country. Of course for us it was the abdication of the Tsar that our morale hit bottom low, and thousands returned to their stanitsas. In fact the vast majority of people simply stayed at home, that way at least whenever a conquering army would overrun there will nothing to loot (and everybody looted). So really its no point on trying to convince one another on what happened in that time.

Now then some corrections. Petlyura was from Poltava, Grushevsky came to Stavropol for treatment after the end of the civil war and died there in one of the health spas.

Wrt 1926 census, you will find that there was a very strong debate going on in all ethnographic circles of what to do with ex-Cossacks at the time, which is well documented. Because, and I quote Whilst the people did reffer to themselves as Ruthenians however they did not wish to choose to associate as either Russians or Ukrainians. So they split half and half, which resulted in a number of demonstrations in the Kuban (as well against the Ukrainian teaching in schools and the segregation of Cossack lands to the autonomous republics), and that's when Stalin ordered that this stop and let the people choose who they are and treat Ruthenians = Russians, one of the many reasons I respect him for.

Now you labeled some famous Ukrainians from Kuban, however would you like a list of thousands of famous Russians that came from Kuban, and none seem to show any willingness of becoming Ukrainian. Think of Nikolay Gogol or Alexander Pushkin as a microscopical example of what we are, and read Gumelyov, a great historian who really hits the nail in. It's not the ethnical background that make you part of a civilisation (or super-ethnos) but its the ability of the super-ethnos to pull in smaller ethnicities. In 1654 Bogdan Khmelnitsky made an oath of eternal loyalty to the Great Tsardom of Russia, we, his descendants are still loyal to that oath.

It is important to understand spiritually we are not Ukrainians, just like Eastern Ukrainians in Donbass or Dnepropetrovsk are Russian speaking, pro-Russian, but are ethnically nonetheless Ukrainians. Well think of us as a mirror, ethnically we are everything, linguistically we have some Ukrainian in common, but on the spiritual level - Russians! In school, I remember 1991, instead of standard Russian the teachers began speaking our Cossack dialect, which was easier for us to understand, but that was it. And in Krasnodar people speak literal Russian as do those in any Kuban city. It is true that we are not Great Russians, but it is also true that we are not Small Russians either, we are Cossacks! Btw you might be interested in this Кубанский Казачий Хор, and as the heading says:

Другая боль Виктора Захарченко — потомственного черноморского казака, для которого неразделимы русское и украинское — отрыв Украины от России. Трещина прошла прямо по его сердцу. Может быть, поэтому самое им выстраданное — песни на стихи Тараса Шевченко и Леси Украинки, — песни, исторгающие слезы у русских и подымающие на ноги тысячные аудитории на Украине. Кто как не простые люди России и Украины, в отличие от своих политиков, горюют о безумии и абсурде нашего разрыва? Поздравляю всех живущих в России сегодня. Творчество композитора Виктора Захарченко — чудо нечаянное, явленное русским духом на рубеже ХХ-го и XXI-гo веков.

Well this divide has happened, and back in 1990s (and if not since we first set foot on the Kuban in 18th century) we had a choice to embrace as part of a massive motherland or to go with some little state that is still torn apart by the east-west divide and is now being used as a clash of spheres of influence battleground between Russia and the West ... Thank you, but no thank you, I am proud of my massive land, and to have recieved a higher education in Saint Petersburg state University, that we Cossacks shed our blood in restoring our territorial integrity in Chechnya. We are Russians, and the more Ukraine will blow its bridges with Russia the wider will Azov get and the more thankful we will be (to God ;) that we are not on the wrong side of it....That does not mean I have anything against ordinary Ukrainians...my wife is from Rivne...--Kuban Cossack 11:36, 13 January 2007 (UTC)