Talk:KS-23

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[edit] 4 gauge?

The article on gauge has an equation that suggests 23 mm is closer to 6 gauge (about 6.2). This also seems to better fit the visual appearance in the pictures in the source.

I realize that the only listed source specifically states that the gauge is 4, but I'm asserting that the source is wrong. I've used the equation in the gauge article to calculate gauges of which I already know the diameter, so I'm confident in its accuracy.

Yes, I'm sure this counts as "original research", which is why I'm not putting it in the article. That said, I don't care enough about this almost trivial stub to find a better source myself. However, this will be here for any others who notice that 23 mm probably isn't 4 gauge and check the talk page for insight.

--99.241.97.241 (talk) 17:26, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

The above person is correct in their statement that 23mm is not 4 gauge. It is in fact 6.27 gauge. I have never seen one of these guns in real life and thus can not for certain say what their bore size is. But all accounts seem to agree that the models with rifled barrels are 23mm therefore I think that those models gauge indication should be changed. If wikipedia accepts its own gauge formula than this must be changed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.182.161.142 (talk) 06:32, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, Jane's and Modern Firearms, both pretty reliable in my experience (as well as the TOZ-123 site, although that may be suspect), say 4 gauge, so I don't know what to tell you; I'll ask around and see what the consensus is, until then I'll leave it as is. Cerebellum (talk) 15:42, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

OK, I think I've gotten to the bottom of it all. As you can see on the graph here, when you're dealing with low gauges, it get's pretty crazy. If that page is using the proper equation, a gauge of 4 is equivalent to approximately 26.73 mm, while a gauge of 6 is equivalent to about 23.35 mm, a difference of 3.38 mm, not a very big deal. So, while technically the KS-23 is 6.27 gauge, it's also not that far from being 4 gauge. I don't really know why everyone doesn't just say 6 gauge and have done with it, but there you have.

There may even be more to the story. Wikipedia's conversion chart lists two different bore sizes under 4 gauge: 26.72 (4 gauge according to the geocities tool) and 23.75 (5.7 gauge according to geocities) to 24.25 (5.35). Also, I found this (read the last post). I don't know what the deal is there, but unless someone else knows, I'll just keep the article how it is with a footnote after the first mention of 6.27 gauge mentioning the dispute and pointing to here. Sound good? Cerebellum (talk) 18:27, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Something to remember is that this gun is not actually classified as a shotgun. The Russian call it a carbine. We generally refer to it as a shotgun and try to fit the thing to a gauge but maybe we should just leave it at 23mm. I am curious as to how it became known as a 4 gauge. I bet it is because the product page for the TOZ-123 comes in English and that gun is listed as a 4 gauge. Robmcmahan (talk) 05:52, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] TOZ-123

Information originally added to article body by 76.182.161.142.

Information from this site ([1]), however, is suspect, and the TOZ-123 page may be a fabrication. The TOZ-123 page can not be reached from the Tulsky Oruzheiny Zavod sites civilian gun page directly, but must however be accessed by using the triangular button links from either the PC-84 page or the TOZ-84 pages. Also the table at the bottom of the page that list the guns specs is unusual, while very detailed and of a uniform style on all other gun pages on the site, the table on the TOZ-123 is of a drastically different style, lacks the same kinds of information on the other pages and has errors regarding it’s use of measurements, specifically the fact that it measures gauge in mm. This specific error is suspicious in that the KS-23 family of shotguns is usually referred to on internet forums as a “4 gauge” shotgun. This is simply not true in regards to the 23mm military versions because of the fact that 23mm is equivalent to 6.27 gauge not 4 gauge. However this gun has a smooth bore barrel not the rifled decommissioned military barrels of its cousins. Therefore whether or not the shotgun is a 23mm or a true 4 gauge is up to speculation.