Talk:Kraken (Pirates of the Caribbean)

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[edit] Capitalisation

Not just on this page, but on several other pages, numerous editing has been done to the word Kraken so that it is instead spelt kraken. Just to clarify, the word is supposed to be capitalised, so please leave it as such. Thank you. Dac 13:28, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

I checked the Disney movie companion book, "Pirates of the Caribbean: The Visual Guide," and "Kraken" is capitalized. Therefore, IMHO, that is probably how it should be used in the Wikipedia articles. However, Wikipedia rules state that mythical beasts should not be capitalized, and this does create confusion. I prefer not to capitalize mythical beasts, but in this instance, I think it should be. PNW Raven 14:58, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
The capital K was apparently removed because the DVD subtitles did not have them, am I correct? Because I checked my DVD and it is in fact capitalised there. So, what, did I get a defect copy or something? Dac 22:21, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
Mine must be defective too, because Kraken is capitatlized on the subtitles.PNW Raven 02:37, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
No, I'm thinking it is in fact supposed to be capitalised. This is reason enough, I think. Dac 08:02, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Oh. I have the special edition 2-disc DVD. Does the normal DVD have it capitalized? Or it could be a change between two different issues of the DVDs...—ウルタプ 16:07, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
I don't know, I have the two-disc as well. Strange. Dac 22:15, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Capitalizing Kraken

I did not immediately see the discussions regarding capitalizing Kraken (I'm still finding my way around here). I was under the impression that since it is not a proper name, it should not be capitalized. I've checked other sources and it is often capitalized, so that is the style I will follow. However, the Wikipedia style guide states that mythological creatures should not be capitalized. PNW Raven 00:38, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

I think, given the context, that this Kraken is a movie monster rather than a mythological creature, we can leave it as is. Dac 01:56, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
I agree with this. --pIrish 02:23, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

Does anyone know how it's referred to in the Disney PotC Guide character guide book (or whaterver it's called). I think that should be the determining factor.PNW Raven 19:15, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge

The primary reason this article should not be merged is that it would overtake the mythical Kraken article if it remains in this general form. The mythical article should be reserved for information based solely on the mythical creature. This one is based on a "character" from a movie, and, much like other character pages, it should remain as that, a character page. Also, it is about a specific Kraken, not Krakens in general. If merged, it would become a subnote in a cultural references section, as opposed to providing information specifically on THIS Kraken which plays a major role in the movie(s). I have deleted the suggestion for a merge bar for now. --pIrish 23:26, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree with that logic. Don't merge it. Dac 23:47, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
The Kraken is more plot device than character. There's no reason for it to be detailed so greatly here, when a simple paragraph about it would fit easily into a "Kraken in popular culture" heading in the main Kraken article. --86.144.232.213 13:40, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
The Kraken is very complex and deserves more than just a short paragraph. Just because it's not human doesn't mean it's not a character. What is the Kraken? How does it work? What exactly does it do? What does it look like? How did Davy Jones gain control over it? How long has the Kraken been around? What became of it when it swallowed Jack? You can't easily describe that much stuff in one paragraph without having it sound incomplete.
When I came to this article, it was because I wanted to find out more, and as much as I could, about this Kraken because it really is cool. I didn't want to see three sentences about it that I already knew. An encyclopedia is meant to inform. That's what this article does. It informs people about one specific Kraken, not merely a side note about how there was a kraken featured in a movie.
There already is mention of the Kraken in the popular culture article that links to this article. Also, as the new movie is set to be released in less than a year, we're going to start seeing trailers for it that will likely show the Kraken and then, when the actual movie comes out, there is going to be even more information come to the article. There's no reason to butcher it now and have to build it up again when that time comes. It's just better to leave it as is. pIrish 13:53, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
Regardless of the complextion of it, it should be in the list of minor characters, considering it gets, not a lot of time on screen, whilst Jack the Monkey shouldn't have been put into there, as he was more imporant than the Kraken in my looks. I mean, if you look at it, sure, there some things to be said about it, but think about it, it's not that important on what ships it attacked or anything. To me, it's just a minor creature from the movie. Captain Drake Van Hellsing Savvy? 12:01, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm all for having the Kraken article incorporated into the Minor Characters list. Scanning over article, some of the content is doing little more than describing every instance in which the Kraken, or something associated with it, appeared in the films. E.g. In other media, someone felt the need to state that at one point during their swordfight aboard the Dutchman, Jack & Davy Jones fight it out on the 'Kraken Hammer'; what relevance does this have in encyclopedial article? --80.4.201.125 00:46, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Fourth Ship Attacked

I just watched the POC:Dead Man's Chest DVD, and the fourth ship that is seen run aground, does not appear to be the fishing vessel. (Under the section describing the different ships that were attacked by the Kraken, the writer speculated that it may be the fishing vessel.) On each ship, the placement of the masts are different, and the crew on the fishing vessel are Turkish. The crew of the wrecked ship are British. This is trivia, but according to the DVD commentary, the wrecked vessel was actually the same ship that was used for the Edinburgh Trader. They (obviously) filmed the attack on the Edinburgh Trader first, breaking it in half, then used the two wrecked halves for the ship wreck scene. PNW Raven 01:50, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

OK, good catch. I'll just clarify that in the trivia section (your wording may seem a bit confusing) but thanks for clearing that up. Dac 06:54, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm glad to get this cleared up, because it had confused me for a long time. PNW Raven 15:44, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, we probably shouldn't have put it in there anyway because in hindsight it seems too speculative, but no matter. Good show. Dac 02:04, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Destroying the Pearl

The first two ships were destroyed, but the Pearl, it looked like the ship was pulled under water, completly intact (or at least still is almost in one piece). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by DJD23 (talk • contribs) 17:18, 15 December 2006 (UTC).

Either way, it still got screwed over. Hence, it is destroyed. Once a ship that size goes down it doesn't come back up. Dac 22:48, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
Ahem, the Black Pearl was raised from the depths by Davy Jones in the first place, so I don't think you can be so sure ... Kirkburn 05:57, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
That's because our friend Davy Jones has supernatural abilities; and as far as we're aware, he's the only one with said abilities and he's certainly in no rush to raise it a second time. My point is, the Black Pearl has sunk. Dac 06:20, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
Davy Jones is likely not the only one who can raise the Black Pearl. Speculation is that the sea nymph Calypso, a new character in Pirates 3, also has supernatural powers (and may be Tia Dalma), and will rescue Jack and raise the Black Pearl from World's End.PNW Raven 14:51, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
The Pearl should appear intact in the third movie, so she'll be raised by somebody (or somewhat...). However, it can be clearly seen that the Kraken simply pulled the Pearl under water without damaging the hull or breaking the ship's keel (like it did it with the two other ships and which is a collateral damage), so the Pearl can't be considered destroyed. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.144.99.3 (talk) 10:47, 31 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] First Ship

I'm fairly sure the first ship destroyed was Portuguese, not Turkish. Anyone want to comment? If not I'll change that. Witchbaby 09:02, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

At Movie-Mistakes.com, the language the sailors are speaking has been translated from Turkish to English. And I read or heard somewhere it was a Turkish boat, but I don't remember where I got this information. I might have heard it on the DVD commentary. I'll do some checking. Huskydawg 13:57, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Awesome. Thanks, even if I'm wrong it's good to know the information is correct. Witchbaby 20:51, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
And I just watched the DVD, and on the subtitles it says the characters are speaking Turkish. Huskydawg 00:54, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Squid or Octopus

The Kraken does not look like a giant deformed octopus. It's appearance resembles a squid. Both are cephalopods. An octopus has a softer and rounder body, more like a pouch or sack. It has eight, partially webbed arms that can spread outward from the body. A squid has a long torpedo-shaped body, a firmer mantle, and stiffer and more numerious tentacles that project forward from the head and that are shorter than an octopus' in relationship to its body size. Another difference, a squid's suckers are ringed with teeth-like spikes, like the Kraken. An octopus' suckers do not have these. Please look at pictures of an octopus and a squid and compare them to the Kraken illustration in the Pirates of the Caribbean: A Visual Guide and you'll see that it looks more like a squid. The Kraken legend is believed to have come from early sailors who may have seen giant squid at sea. Giant squid are estimated to reach up to 30-40 ft. in length. The Humbolt squid are 4-5 ft. in length, and are quite agressive. Octopus are shy and hide in intertidal rocky substrates. Squid live in open water, are fast moving, and travel in large schools. It would be more likely that sailors observed large squid than octopus. I have worked with invetebrates at an aquarium, and the Kraken is definitely squid-like. I'm also unaware of cephalopod suckers being called "sucker caps." PNW Raven 21:44, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

No shit, Sherlock. But, scientifically speaking the tentacles are the two very long appendages squid have that end in "clubs." Arms are the appendages that do not end in these "clubs." However, as can be seen in the movie, the two very long appendages that the Kraken raises over the ship to finally crush the merchant ship do not have these "clubs", but since they are longer than the rest, it would be allowable to call these two, and only these two, tentacles. The rest are arms. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.79.23.111 (talk • contribs).

  • It's likely that the movie creators included elements of both, as well as some of their own making. For example when Will sees the Kraken under the water, the body is definitely not entirely squid-like. It was lenghened and seemed almost like a whale's tail. MichaelLinnear 01:40, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Let's can the "No *$%#, Sherlock" sarcasm. The point is, the Kraken looks more like squid than an octopus.PNW Raven 16:18, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

^^ Which would have been more than sufficient, I'd say ;-) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.142.84.8 (talk) 19:35, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Concept Art of Kraken

Just put the Pirates of the Caribbean A Visual Guide concept art of Kraken in the article and stated all the rights —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tutow (talk • contribs) 04:16, 23 April 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Sources for the Death of the Kraken?

And the circumstances surrounding it? There's a junior novelization out already? Hello? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.22.212.250 (talk) 03:51, 24 April 2007 (UTC).

Seriously. Where was this information found? There's nothing in the article about POTC 3 to say that there is a junior novelization out. Little help?

It's been taken out on how it's been killed, as it is unknown, it was killed, we know that, but how, that is unknown. Captain Drake Van Hellsing 01:27, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Kraken Tooth??

It's mentioned that Jack wears a Kraken tooth on his bandana in the third film. Anyone got a picture of this, because all I see is the long bone that Johnny Depp claims was the shin bone of a reindeer. --70.162.221.121 02:16, 29 May 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Image from World's End

Where was that one image found of the Kraken dead on the beach in the World's ENd section of the article? I'm not saying that it is bad, or it needs to be cited, I just wanted to know where it came from and possibly that someone could enlarge the size. ManofSTEEL2772 June 5 2007 3:56 p.m.

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:The Kraken.JPG

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[edit] Sad Squid

The Kraken's eye looks sad after it's dead, as though it's sad that Jones had to kill it. Should this be said? (The title's the way it is as a joke. Do not make it an arguement like above) Hjerpinig 16:50, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

No; there's really no significance to that. I agree that the Kraken looked sad, but I personally think it was made to look like that as some payback for all the destruction it caused in the last movie. The important part is that is showed Jack just how much Beckett is in control of the seas; even able to order Jones to kill that which was thought to be unkillable; that's already stated in the article.-Darknessofheart

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