User talk:Kotare

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[edit] 'Ello

Hi there, thanks for putting that work into the Tieke page, it was nice to find it, and be able to add a photo to a spot just sitting there! I'd figured out how to do a Taxbox for the Dracophyllum page a week or so ago, but am not really there yet. I like your comments above, particularly regarding the references section; That's about what I reckon too, and is exactly where encyclopedias should point ie to 'hard' literature... A few places like LandcareResearch and NZPCN are making efforts in this direction but this is probably the best place for this to happen. Anyhow, ta for the comment, and I look forward to seeing yer around...

-- blacksand 10:33, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Mainland island

I created this article some time ago. GrahamBould 06:54, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

"I think there may be a case for renaming the article "mainland island"". I tend to agree - keep in touch on this, we may fix it in collaboration to spread the load. However, consider that some people might confuse 'Mainland Island' with an island within the mainland, like Mokoia Island in Lake Rotorua, or any ait. Don't think this possibility should prevent the name change though. GrahamBould 06:50, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Some Major Naughty Spots of Vandalism

Hello Kotare, if you're on Wiki-break I'm afraid that's too bad, seems like your page is attracting vandals. Just wanted to alert you to the matter and remind you to check your user page history. Hope you won't run into any more naughty spots of vandalism with 'em ;).¤~Persian Poet Gal (talk) 05:52, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ecology

Hi,

I'm OhanaUnited, the creator of the environmental protection userbox. I'm glad that I found another person who uses this box and is a university student. I myself is also university student (University of Toronto) double major in biology and environmental science. It seems like both of us are going towards the same field direction.

Just to give you heads-up, I can tell you that editing articles related to environmentalism is pain in the butt. There're still many non-believers in global warming who will do anything to deny or erase any comments related to that subject. Then there're burecuatic editors who demand for sources without much thoughts into it. I was adding some info on recycling that my prof in university talked about on that day in lecture. Less than a day it was removed because of unvertifable sources. They rather see a bunch of colourful amateur websites as resources than what I learned in lecture. I just hope that you won't run into same problem as I encountered when I edit things.

I wish you success in university. Keep in touch.

OhanaUnited 06:09, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Issue solved

I'm glad that Kakapo page issue has been solved peacefully. However, another issue appeared. Let's go to Talk:Kakapo and see how can we can resolve this issue. OhanaUnited 15:52, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Whiteheads and Vic

I'll look at the article more closely later, its close to b standard but needs some filing out in places. The headings need a bit of reorganizing and the description should be split out of the introduction into its own section - the intro should be a summary of whats in the article, and not have info that isn't elsewhere (in theory anyway). I'll try and get a photo some time of one at Karori.

I'm doing my PhD in ecological naivete (the tendency of native birds here to lose their anti-predator behaviours) as well as other aspects of island evolution (changes in life history and body size). I only started a month ago, and am still finding my way around. Its pretty interesting to have a Wikipedian in the same department, are you a member of Gecko? Sabine's Sunbird talk 18:32, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Nope, I only arrived in NZ a month and a half ago so you wouldn't have seen me around. And the Gecko meeting seemed to have lots of new people so it might be worth having another go (certainly the place to raise funds for forest protection!). Most of my field work will be in Karori but possibly some at Kapiti and maybe even the Chathams! Who knows?! Sabine's Sunbird talk 09:46, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
The main thing is fleshing out the description nicely. I had a look for some technical articles but I only have access to medical stuff (I'm a doctor) not biological journals. Sabine's Sunbird has been a great help finding some journal goodies. The other thing is to have a lead which summarises the salient points in the article, which I may have a stab at.
In terms of style, I'd have distribution and habitat as a section after description and then conservation as a subsection of that but if you like it a different way and it flows better that's fine. I am an aussie so don't know much about the bird. What else is there that is not convered by the article? I couldn't see much on why it is classified as a pachycephalid but it would be good to find out where and why. cheers, Casliber | talk | contribs 10:41, 5 April 2007 (UTC)


Umm, had a thought - anything more on Maori legends about them? Also, maybe a photo as well as the painting...cheers, Casliber | talk | contribs 10:50, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Regarding references

Hi there, I've noticed you've recently been putting in some solid work adding "unreferenced" tags to articles on New Zealand geographical features. In most cases, I agree that the tag is necessary and that some references would seriously help the articles (and I have in fact added references to a few of the articles). However, in some instances, I am not sure if the tag is required as the only information in the articles is that which can be seen on any half-decent map of New Zealand. As WP:CITE says, "[a]ll material that is challenged or likely to be challenged needs a source", and I do not believe this at all applies to basic information that can be seen on maps, such as statements that a river is in the South Island and flows through a certain town, or that a mountain is so many metres high. Good examples would be the articles on Mount Lyndon (from which I actually removed the tag - the only time I've done so yet without adding references) and Kaweka Range.

Before I went ahead and removed tags from anything else, I thought I should discuss this with you. I'm not contesting the majority of your edits, just those on articles with very basic information. I'd like to hear your thoughts on the matter. - Axver 08:35, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to second this. I'm possibly even more on the lenient side. Where the information is contestable, there is a real need to ensure that it is verifiable. On the other hand, if I had to cite sources for things that are bordering on self-evident (well not actually self-evident, but very generally known), I think I'd give up editing all together. So while I might be in a minority in that, I'd certainly agree with Axver, and suggest you be a touch more selective. Even something like Aoraki/Mt Cook. Most of the information is pretty well known to New Zealanders (or available from the external link). Perhaps that article could do with another reference or two, but inline referencing seems rather like overkill.--Limegreen 09:16, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
third this - if you think there is some doubt that Petroica is a genus of birds, then maybe you should provide the references for it - you could look up redlist or something. Really, your tags might sit on these articles for months. Sometimes, if you feel something needs fixing, it pays to be bold and fix it yourself rather than add tags which in effect are saying 'Hey lazybones! fix this because I think it needs it!' Kahuroa 19:11, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I put the tag up, not because i doubt that Petroica is a genus but because they didn't give a reference to back up the statement that the genus is not related to european robins. There are probably some cases like this where you're right and I could go ahead and do it myself.. but I put these tags on many massive articles as well in which its not a case of: 'Hey lazybones! fix this because I think it needs it!!"- in most cases, the creators of these pages will be watching them and seeing as these people created those articles (and will probably remember where they got the info. from)- it will thus be straightforward process for them to add in references- but it would be a baffling ordeal for anyone else-( I'm saying this from experience). Its also simultaneously pointing out to people the importance of references in terms of making a good wikipedia article. Kotare 00:10, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

That's all good Kahuroa 01:31, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks alot...

... for your compliment. However, I would like to thank the MWT.It is a tool used for spotting recent changes, and it's great; its simple and effective. As a recent changes patroller, its nice to have it. Maybe you become one too, haha. Optakeover 11:08, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Three Kings Islands

So you added an "unreferenced" tag to this article. What do you exactly expect? A reference for each single fact stated in the article, or what? Look, most of the info is measured or taken from the map in the article, or from the external reference given. The rest, IMHO, can easily verified by Google. If there is anything you cannot verify, let me know. Otherwise, please take away the unreferenced tag.--Ratzer 15:15, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Having read the previous discussions on this page I think you may have been a little overzealous with the tags. Moving to referencing will take time and there is a big question on how far to go. I use [citation needed] tags after sentences that I think are worth referencing, rather than put a label at the top of the article. I tend to think that a big Unsourced tag at the top of a page which you may know is factaul but just lacking the refs may do more harm than good in hte long run. OTOH precise tags can be a great way of researching and sourcing more interesting stuff for an article.
PS: Thanks for asking for my input (Hey someone thinks I'm an authority 'round here hehehehe) cheers, Cas Liber | talk | contribs 12:17, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
I know you were/are tryingto be helpful. An analogy is at FAC when someone gives something specific as an objection vs a general one (which is insanely irritating). Anyway, just use those tags when you see something controversial and good luck :) cheers, Cas Liber | talk | contribs 11:01, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Brothers Island tuatara

Hi, you inserted some content into this article with a reference, New Zealand Frogs and reptiles", Brian Gill and Tony Whitaker, David Bateman publishing, 1998.

The content is:

It differs from the "common" tuatara (Sphenodon punctatus) in two key morphological aspects, firstly in having dark olive skin with yellowish patches, by contrast the common tuatara Sphenodon punctatus is "Olive green or slate-grey;finely speckled"[1]. Secondly, individuals of this species are smaller than punctatus animals, having an SVL ( snout to vent length) of up to 250 mm and a maximum weight of up to 660 g - by contrast punctatus animals can reach a SVL of 280mm and weigh up to 1.3 kg.

Only the first sentence seems to be supported by the reference. Can you let me know whether the second sentence is also supported by the same reference? This would really help. It's best if you reply at Talk:Tuatara. Many thanks! Samsara (talk • contribs) 16:05, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Since you're not replying, I'll assume the answer is "no" and proceed accordingly. Best regards, Samsara (talk • contribs) 12:24, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
Thanks a lot for the reply! I hope things are better for you now, sorry if I pressured you. Best wishes, Samsara (talk • contribs) 19:17, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tuatara skull drawing

Hi Kotare, just stopping by to say thanks for the kind words you left on my user page. ArthurWeasley 15:17, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Agathis australis

Hi Korare. I prefer inline myself for the reasons you said - I initially began adding them as inline but then realized we can't have both inline and Harvard in the one article, so I reluctantly changed them. If you'd like to change them to inline by all means do so. Most of the material I added are based on a collection of notes prepared by Dr. Shane Wright from the University of Auckland, so I'm a little concerned with the referencing - we'll have to find alternative sources since study material certainly won't cut it, not to mention that it's not available freely online. I'm planning to add about the same amount again on the regeneration and geological history of the tree as well, which should beef up the article a bit. Richard001 01:35, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nepenthes

Thanks, I appreciate the feedback. You've been doing good work on NZ CPs yourself. :) I'd like to help out with other genera, but unfortunately my knowledge is mostly limited to Nepenthes. Regards, Mgiganteus1 13:51, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rock Wren

I misremembered, it was in the discussion of the Orange-fronted Parakeet discussion that someone objected to Orange-fronted Parakeet (New Zealand); not the wren - for the wren it was simply suggested that the IUCN name be used. I understand the case for using a worldwide standard naming system, but it seems that whenever a name is shared the New Zealand name has been ignored. I suggest leaving a note on the talk page proposing the move formally (I'll support it) and giving the fact that the species is only known as the Rock Wren throughout the whole of its range as the reason. Sabine's Sunbird talk 05:50, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Kakapo "In Maori culture" section edits

Hey Msikma

I've just been editing the "in Maori culture" section for the Kakapo article and in the process reverted a few of the edits you made a couple of weeks ago after this section was integrated into the article. You were actually very reasonable in editing and I really appreciate that you left messages in the text explaing why some text shouldn't be included ( I agree for the legend and stuff about stringing kakapo heads through nostrils and will work on these bits in the future). I have carefully thought out the reverts and have written justifications for why I made them on the Talk:Kakapo page.I hope this section can be left as is because I'm pretty happy with it but if you have any problems please leave a message on my talk page.

Regards, Kotare 07:18, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know. I think that the section looks great, and I've given it a minor copyedit. I did remove one part about the fern root storage, but it should be added back in (you can probably best decide where, maybe you could add some context to it as well). I've given a bit more in-depth explanation on the talk page. —msikma (user, talk) 20:35, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
Hey dude, I got thrown off track with regards to the kakapo "place in maori culture" section but will be able to turn my attention to it again soon. You're right about the fern root thing being a bit out of place/incongruous and I will see if I can find some more information to put it in context. Yeah and it would be nice to find some stuff about their place in NZ culture in more recent times, I agree, will look into it. Thanks for your constructive attitude and the suggestions, it's always good to get feedback :) Cheers, Nick
Hi there. You have great timing. I just came back today, a little earlier than expected. Glad to hear you're still interested. There's also another thing that you might be able to look at, something I posted in Wikiproject birds before: [1]. It's a question regarding what seems to be inconsistent or inconclusive taxonomy. Maybe I'm just reading it wrongly, but perhaps a bit extra text there would be well placed. I can't really do it, though, since I haven't had any theoretical biology since high school. Thanks, and see you around! —msikma (user, talk) 20:09, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Photo feedback feedback

  • You wrote: "Hey there I just looked at your gallery and you've taken some amazing photos.. great stuff keep it up, photographers make an important and valuable contribution to wikipedia - after all "a picture is worth a thousand words". Landscape/nature photography is something I'd like to dabble in - would I be able to ask you some questions about this subject at some point in the future? Cheers, Kotare 11:50, 30 June 2007 (UTC)"
    • Hi Kotare. Thanks for the kind words. I've just added a few more photos (which have been up for a while) to User:KeresH_Gallery. I'm happy to answer questions about photography, as I actually got my BFA in Fine Arts photograhy. My partner (an environmental facilitator for the Aus. federal gov.) and I are taking our first trip to NZ later this year, from mid-November to early December, touring mostly the South Island but doing a stretch of the North Island as well. I expect to come home with at least a thousand digital images to sort through. Cheers KeresH 04:18, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
      • Hello again, and sorry for stuffing up your user page. As I mentioned on mine, I'm a photographer (and therefore should not be allowed to mess with text). ;) KeresH 01:44, 20 July 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Wellington and Wellington Region merger

if you're reading this message, it's because you're a person who has edited either of the Wellington articles. This is a courtesy note to let you know that I proposed a merger between the two pages, and we need to know your opinion. Kripto 22:26, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

Hi! I'm glad you've been making contributions to Wikipedia... thanks for reminding me of my addiction here. ;) I've been pretty busy this summer and haven't been very active, just making fixes here and there as time allows. I am indeed based in the US, though I've traveled to Mexico, which is how I ended up with so many Pinguicula photos (Pinguicula moranensis, etc.). I still have pictures of a dozen more Pinguicula species to make articles for, but time is of course the limiting factor.

As far as D. filiformis goes, I unfortunately haven't made it out to the east coast. I may have pictures from Albion (the naturalized CP garden in Mendocino County, CA). Also check out the picture to the right, which someone stuck on the Sundew page recently. Its not on commons, but you can use it on the English Wikipedia. NoahElhardt 07:20, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nepenthes rajah

The article was previously nominated but was not promoted. I think it still needs a fair bit of work before it meets FA standards. Mgiganteus1 06:02, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Colab

Hmmm. I was eyeing up Cyanoramphus myself. Though you're right the wattlebirds need work too. Fact is I'm kind of swamped at the minute; I really need to finish bird before I do anything else; and real life shit is piling up (I've just recovered from the flu, am moving in just over a week and the PhD stuff keeps piling up). So I can't promise any help, but I will try. One other point, while I am fully for Māori names when they are commonly used (ie Kokako or Kereru), I don't think the Saddleback is commonly called by its Māori name. Sabine's Sunbird talk 02:15, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

I went with Pipipi since it was the name used in the latest Gill and Wright standardised list of world bird names. [2]. I wouldn't mind if it was changed back really. Sabine's Sunbird talk 10:28, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Common names in taxoboxes

I've placed a note about your recent edits at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Plants. I suspect that your use of common names in the taxoboxes may generate some controversy, as the issue of common names for plants--particularly which one is the most common, accurate, appropriate, or correct--has been a huge can of worms in the plant articles. MrDarwin 17:22, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hanzab

I notice you've been working hard on whitehead - have you found the Handbook of Australian, New Zealand and Antarctic Birds in the library yet? Best reference work for Kiwi birds there is. It's in the reference section on level two Sabine's Sunbird talk 03:12, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

PhD students don't get 'breaks'. As for photos of whiteheads, I was planning on going to karori one sunny weekend and trying my luck, they are fairly common. BTW, saw a kotare on the streetlight outside the university yesterday. Sabine's Sunbird talk 08:26, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Whitehead etc

Sure, am interested. We can take another look at the albatross and the kākāpō too. Maybe keep the Māori-culture sections fairly brief and to the point Kahuroa 00:27, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
Will look forward to working with you on this. Just a thought - what about a separate article dedicated to birds in Māori culture? Would that work? Kahuroa 19:39, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
(Butting in...) - sounds good to me. I like indigenous and cultural refs on bird pages. Ain't looked at Kakapo for a wee while....cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:22, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
PS: Huia is shaping up nicely. I've had a bit of a fiddle. Have a read and slot in the imperial refs too like on Kereru. Also I expanded the lead a bit, a bit more on feathers and maori connexion would be cool. Good work. Gonna get kicked off the computer in a bit. cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:22, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Go for Gold - Main Page bro'

Why not do something real snazzy and try to work one of these up for FA? There are loads of good comparisons like Kakapo and Common Raven.....I'll help...cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 08:26, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm not too hot on NZ bird knowledge as I am on aussie birds - could Kokako be nice and chunky? Have a think, if so then we can start to work it up. I've notched up a few FAs under me belt now so it is not too hard :) cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 09:31, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Kudos

Hey thanks for the barnstar! I'm glad someone noticed my work. :) Mgiganteus1 18:04, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Maori bird article

I think a general article could be useful, something to think about; much of the practical uses would be similar and could be covered in one sweep. Regarding the Māori culture sections you've been adding, there is one thing I would advise. That is to try and keep to the more practical aspects that relate more to observations of the birds behaviour, uses as food or feathers or decoration, and avoiding getting into the more spiritual stuff. Because the more spiritual stuff is loaded with traps for the unwary. Some of Murdoch Riley that you have quoted seems to be a bit like this, as it seems to depend on stuff from the controversial Matorohanga school of the late 19th/early 20th century, which came up with things/gods/numbers of heavens that no one had heard of before then. This stuff is controversial - Te Ara, for instance regards Matorohanga as having deliberately fabricated the Great Fleet migration stuff which became the orthodox view until the 1960s. On the other hand, when the gods mentioned occur widely in other sources, they are probably legit. Also, when a source says 'X was the most sacred bird to Māori', such things are dubious - how do they know, how did they arrive at that? - because, as is the nature of oral cultures, Māori weren't in the habit of creating ranked lists. Also 'tapu' - cannot really be translated accurately as 'sacred', tho it often is translated so. You really need a source that is deeply cognisant of the culture. Elsdon Best is another who needs to be treated with some caution, better to keep to the practical with him too. Margaret Orbell is often a good source when she mentions birds, she is pretty sane and her work is grounded in understandings that arise out of her work on the oral literature, so you're less likely to be led astray. Kahuroa 03:12, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Will replace the stuff on the marereko because I have found some other references to it. Sorry Kahuroa 07:08, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Huia

Looking good - compare with American Goldfinch which is a recent bird FA...with some copyediting and tidying (eg book refs need isbns, check everything looks nice in cite format - have a look at how I cited the books in the ref section of Red-tailed Black Cockatoo which is up at FAC at the moment. I'll have a proper read through a bit later (finger in too many wiki-pies at the present.). cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:03, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

PS: Sorry I meant to add I wouldn't worry too much about GA....actually now I think of it maybe a good thing to see what else comes up. Nominate away and see what happens. Plenty go on to FAC relatively quickly. cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:05, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

have found a Lindauer portrait with a huia skin/beak worn as a pōhoi. Will upload soonish. Kahuroa 18:43, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Images of New Zealand birds

Good news! I went to Tiritiri Matangi yesterday and managed to get some great images of Stitchbirds, Saddlebacks and even the highly tricky not to mention unable to bloody sit still Whitehead! I'll be uploading them later this week (where I am now makes it hard) 04:37, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, I'm crazy busy, what with Nanowrimo and my PhD. Colabs are going to have to wait till the new year for the moment. Oh, and My camera is a Canon Digital Rebel. Sabine's Sunbird talk 20:33, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] HMNZS Rotoiti details

Hi Kotare. To change the status you edit the fate field in the ship table, 19 lines down. However as far as I know Rotoiti's official status is still "fitting out", albeit undergoing sea-trials and acceptance testing, and she has not yet been commissioned.--Geronimo20 (talk) 22:45, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Yup, the NZ navy website is "official", and everything on it has been officially cleared. Significant events are also publicly tabled by Phil Goff, as Minister of Defence, and then reported in the press.--Geronimo20 (talk) 06:19, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Giant Otter

Thanks Kotare for the acknowledgment here. That's the best sort of compliment, in many ways. The article is at FAC, here. Any comments welcome. Marskell (talk) 22:09, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Queries from NZ

Hi Kotare!,
I'd ask him how he would like the photos to be credited and use that or you can just fill in as much as you can in the info template (eg Image:Heron - natures pics.jpg). That should probably do the trick - good luck with it! The S5 IS is a lovely little camera - I fully support your choice! Any advice? Hmm that's a bit hard to answer without a more specific context. I would say as general advice for P&S style cameras (like yours) is to keep the ISO down - quality really degrades rapidly beyond ISO 200. Obviously in some circumstances you'll need to crank it up, but avoid if at all possible. Other than that make sure your IS is set to continuous - that'll help in most circumstances!

Anyway thanks for the wishes and all the best to you! --Fir0002 09:11, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Colab

Colabs are hard at the moment, I'm doing Procellariiformes on autopilot and have my one year review coming up. Sabine's Sunbird talk 02:02, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

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[edit] Teratornis

Many thanks for your comments on my reconstruction. Yes I am aware that it is not up to date and am planning to make a new one (should look more like an osprey if I understand correctly). And yes, I will be very interested in seeing photos of recent reconstructions. These would be very helpful. By the way, do you have any information about Aiolornis as well, somebody has requested a picture but as far as I know it is only known from a few bones...? Cheers. ArthurWeasley (talk) 22:29, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

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[edit] Bird pix

Speaking of the June WikiProject Birds newsletter, it inspired my user page redesign. But now to the nitty gritty. Can you let me know if there are any NZ birds we need pix of in particular. I've had a bit of luck with Kereru of late, so while the iron's hot. I am trying to track down some of the Australasian Harrier (Kāhu)... ) Kahuroa (talk) 10:43, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Got a couple of the Kāhu and a few others so far, see my flickr gallery - tho I am hoping to get a really good'n of the Kāhu. Have been promised a nice rock wren too, when the flickr author gets back from his travels in Italy. Here's hoping Kāhuroa (talk) 04:43, 12 June 2008 (UTC)