Talk:Korean Demilitarized Zone

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Contents

[edit] Rename

Shouldn't the article be named simply Korean Demilitarized Zone? -- Taku 03:12, 28 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Yeah, why not? --Jiang

I would say no, because a lot of people search for topics releated to "MDL". I can search for the DMZ on its own. Eltownse 13:13, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

I renamed this to Korean Demilitarized Zone. Feel free to rever my move if there is a reason not to name that way. -- Taku

[edit] Width of the Zone?

What is the width of the Zone and how and why was that width agreed upon? Were there people living there before and what happened to them?

The first question I would have to do research on. As for the second question, from 1951 to 1953, the two sides were in a stalemate, pretty much stuck in the same place. As far as I know, the DMZ basically follows that 2-year stalemate line. So in other words, by the time the DMZ was established, I am guessing that most people living there would have already been forced out by the war. --Sewing 16:43, 28 Sep 2003 (UTC)

The DMZ has changed some since the cease-fire. There was a peninsula that was cut off by the 38th parallel and left the South Korean inhabitants cut off from the ROK by the ocean. These people were evacuated and the land was surrendered to the North. Also the size of the DMZ was agreed upon at the JSA (Joint Security Area) during the armistice talks. What I remember from when I was stationed there is that the US/ROK forces and NK Forces moved 1000 meters from their last occupied positions and that is what marked the DMZ. The people that were living in the area of the present day DMZ did not need to be displaced at the time. There was a mass migration to the south and north due to the closeness of combat. The terrain in this area is very steep. Firefights at the time were no more than a few hundred meters apart. Civilians didn't have much of a choice but to leave and due to the length of the stalemate they settled elsewhere.

--SGT Fugate, Damian T. US Army The width of the zone is 4 km. The "truce" talks were going on for quite some time, and each side knew the outcome would be to end the fighting at the spot they were at the time, so there were some very fierce battles right before the armistice was signed, as each side was trying to advance even just a little bit. US Army personnel watched all this and changed the "front" line on the maps after each battle to indicate the exact position of each side at the time. When the armistice finally was signed, each side pulled back 2,000 meters, making the DMZ a buffer zone 4 km wide. Right down the middle of the DMZ runs the Military Demarcation Line- this line marks the exact military border between the two sides. It is designated by a series of very old signs written in Hangul and English on the south side and Hangul and Chinese on the north side.

[edit] Current forces

Who mans the border guard south of the DMZ? Only ROK and US forces? Who mans the UN side at Panmunjeom? David.Monniaux 20:39, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)

IIRC there are also Swedish and Swiss forces guarding the peace there. Regards, David Eerdmans 10:05, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The time that I spent in the JSA I did not see Swedish or Swiss forces there. There was us and the ROK's and some NK's. As far as the UN side? The south side is the UN side. Also I believe the spelling is wrong, it should be "Panmunjon". Might want to check that out.

--SGT Fugate, Damian T. US Army

[edit] Axe Murder incident

According to several articles Ihave found, two US soldiers died during the Axe murder incident. - Military marks date of DMZ incident in which two Army officers were slainand The "Axe Murder Incident" 18 August 1976 at Panmunjom. The latter has pictures of the actual attack, but I don't know if they are public domain or not. Their names were Barrett, 1st Lt. Mark T. - UNC - Bonifas, Capt. Arthur G. - UNC - 08/18/76 --68.80.190.94 00:17, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

Here is an interesting bit of information for you. At the time of the tree cutting incident the US forces had a compound where the QRF (Quick Reaction Force) was housed. I won't tell you where it is but instead, it is close. The point being that, after the incident the compound was renamed Camp Bonifas.--SGT Fugate, Damian T US Army

Contributions welcomed at Operation Paul Bunyan. -- Visviva 13:23, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Wildlife Refuge?

While this maybe true, it is only half true. Due to North Koreas constant isolation from the rest of the world they were unable to provide for their peoples needs. They have used most of their natural resources and instead of spending money to replant they choose to spend money on military technology. The North Korean side is free from trees and has a dust bowl look of dried earth while the South Korean side is lush and jungle like. During my extended stay I saw North Korean troops stacking brush against the side of a stone building and lighting it on fire. The winters in Korea are bitter cold and I'm assuming they did this for warmth. The southern side of the DMZ is no more hospitable. Some of the most explosive earth in the world is in the DMZ. It would take years of de-mining to clean up the buried destruction.

--SGT Fugate, Damian T US Army

[edit] Propaganda

I heard propaganda via speakers in the distance on my trip to the DMZ, but my Korean at the time was not good enough to fully understand the content or origin. Is there someone who can add knowledgable information to the section regarding this? Smoove K 10:05, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

  • While I don't have any information on that particular question, I also think that the "Propoganda" section could be expanded a little more. For instance, maybe some info on the 'idealistic' towns that the North has build on the border to make their nation look like Paradise. -Sorry for not signin' in.

The town is not a functioning town. A few people come every day, but as far as the observers can tell- nobody really lives there. The buildings are kind of nice and big. They stopped booming the propaganda a couple of years ago.

Comments regarding the following passages:

"Tourists visiting the southern side of the JSA have sometimes been told (by U.S. soldiers serving as tour guides) that the North Korean building facing South Korea is not a real building but, "a façade designed to look large and impressive, in reality only a frame a few feet (1m) thick."

"Propaganda in the North has stated that the U.S. and South Korea have built a massive unclimbable wall across the entire length of the DMZ (the Korean wall)."

So are these statements true or not? The way they are written implies an uncertainty of their validity. I think the facts either need to be verified, or the way these statements are written needs to be changed.--Jerochan 12:32, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Um, how would you suggest that they be verified? When we are faced with conflicting claims with no clear basis for preferring one to the other, the best approach is for Wikipedia to report on the controversy rather than attempting to resolve it. See WP:NOR, WP:V. -- Visviva 12:41, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

"I visited the DMZ from the North Side in October 2006. There is indeed a building - I walked up 3 flights of stairs and took pictures from the roof looking back over to the South side. The building is dusty inside and does not seem to be used for anything. You can see reasonable satellite photos of Panmunjeom at Google Earth at 37°57'21.27N 126°40'36.20E.

The North Korean guides also took us to a site where through long range binoculars we could see the 'wall' and we were told the North Korea version that this stretches the entire border and as a political purpose to separate North from South. Whether there is a concrete wall running the length or not, the whole debate seems pretty silly since on both sides entry to the DMZ is heavily restricted and barbed wire fences prevent entry to the 4km zone from each side.

North Korea is a very interesting (and safe)trip incidentally - as long as you are not a US citizen it is open to you." Playgame66 07:16, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Transportation part

Um, the picture of "The Dorasan Station" - theres no reference made to it, whether this station is on the north or south side, perhaps have a paragraph referring to it or something? - User:Junglizt1210

[edit] non-verbal gestures exchanged

One of my co-workers who was in the US Army told me that guards on both sides have been known to exchange obscene and insulting non-verbal gestures. This is supposedly the reason why the opposing guards are not permitted to look directly at each other. Anyone ever heard this before or is it simply popular legend?Jlujan69 04:49, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Pure "popular legend". I was stationed there from Aug. '75 - Sep. '76 and again in the '77-'78 timeframe. We would occasionally exchange "gestures", but we (the US and ROKA KATUSA's), would try to engage the NK's in staring "contests". The NK's weren't very good at it and usually looked away fairly fast. wbfergus 20:34, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The border monitors

A tiny swedish and swiss force observe the armistice on the border, originally there were four countries, two 'west european' and two 'east european' countries the two most 'neutral' of each 'team' were selected i suspect. One of the Easties was Czechoslovacia the other was poland or hungary, I don't remember. The eastern european troops withdrew when the politics of their countries changed, but the swedes and the swiss remain, they are not numerous, but they are there which should be mentioned...

[edit] Dorasan station

I don't understand the photo - why is it in the article, yet no mention of the station in the article.--HamedogTalk|@ 13:33, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] citation needed for a citation?

why does a citatoin have a citation needed tag?? Misterdiscreet 17:57, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Hahhah, I don't know. But I find that really funny. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 21:18, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Incursion Tunnels

I'm not sure what the last part of this sentence means: "Starting on November 15, 1974, the South discovered four tunnels leading under the DMZ, by use of water-filled pipes dug vertically into the ground near areas of suspected tunneling activity. " Was the South's discovery made by use of water-filled pipes, or were the tunnels dug using water-filled pipes? Bsharvy 05:17, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree that that is a very poorly written sentence; I really have no idea what it means. Could someone who knows the actual meaning change it for the clearer, please? 65.81.145.26 00:35, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Is this correct ?

Second section of article current states that Korean War  started
..."with a Soviet-sponsored DPRK invasion across the DMZ". 
Is this correct ?  Was there a DMZ before the war ?

Presumably the north koreans attacked across the border which was at that time the actual 38th parallel and not the future DMZ. Eregli bob (talk) 02:10, 26 November 2007 (UTC)