Talk:Konrad, Prince of Saxe-Meiningen

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[edit] Succession

Complex stuff, this succession question. One point, though. Prince Richard, Duke of Gloucester's ancestor, Edward VII of the United Kingdom, gave up any claim on Saxe-Coburg-Gotha on behalf of himself and his descendants in 1863 (with the result that Saxe Coburg & Gotha passed to his younger brothers and their descendants). Would this also prevent Edward VII's descendants succeeding to Saxe-Meiningen? Indisciplined 14:54, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

• • Absolutely correct, the Duke of Gloucester in not the current heir of the claims of the Duchy of Saxe-Meiningen, in case the line became extint -or the de-morganatization of his older brother's family happen-. The legitimate heir from the line of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha is the present Head of the House: Andreas, Prince of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha. Aldebaran69 19:31, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Absolutely incorrect. Edward VII did not renounce anything else than his "first-borned" precedence in Coburg-Gotha succession. Legislatures of Coburg and Gotha ratified it. Meiningen and Altenburg did nothing of the sort - they were not even asked to ratify anything. The renunciation from only the first-born precedence meant and means just a deferral: Edward VII's younger brothers with their issue came before Edward's issue. It's well-documented: in the case the last of those male lines die out, in other words, the "Albany line" of duke Karl Eduard, the Gloucester and then the Kent will succeed them in rights to Coburg and Gotha. But other Saxe territories affirmed nothing, and Edward VII did not renounce nor defer anything regarding those. Then George V did not renounce anything else than use of titles, and he was not able to renounce his living sons' rights anyway. In WWI, German Empire decided to discontinue rights of dynasts loyal to enemy countries, but that is often regarded as pure politics, invalid in face of it, and not binding to centuries of inherited rights already several times inherited over enemy lines of some eras. Therefore, if Altenburg and/or Meiningen line goes extinct, Edward VII's male line has precedence over the current Coburg line. Henq (talk) 15:14, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Uh, you're forgetting that Saxon territories did not always pass by primogeniture to other lines... Territories were redistributed upon the extinction of a line. Since the titles depended on *territories*, Saxe-Meiningen will go the way of Saxe-Altenburg when the currently line ends --- it will simply disappear as a title. There are no "Saxe" territories. Saxe is a shorter form of Saxony. The word you're looking for is Saxon. Again, there are no "inherited rights several times over". For all intents and purposes, all Saxon dukes are members of one house and ruled divisions of what was essentially a family territory. All the dukes of Saxony can be listed in genealogical precedence, but do not mistake that for a line of succession. Charles 17:20, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Firstly, genealogical headship is not a thing to be reshuffled. Second, reshuffles took place in eras when the hereditament, the reshuffled duchy, was not yet legislated as primogeniture state. After becoming legislated to primogeniture succession, no such state was subjecyed to reshuffling. One such state exchanged a piece of territory with another, but that was an exchange. Reshuffle is not always the correct answer. Henq (talk) 18:43, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Would you please quote the relevant legislation regarding primogeniture in Saxe-Meiningen or provide a reliable source which outlines it? You are mistaking genealogical seniority with established lines of succession, which may or may not be mutual. You have yet to provide a sourced line of succession for the duchy of Saxe-Meiningen. This is all original research. Regarding "centuries of inherited rights already several times over", none of that matters if legislation differs, does it? If Saxe-Meiningen dies out, it is dead. Unless there is a line of succession (not hypothesized, a sourced one) which states that a certain line will inherit. Charles 18:51, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Duke George enacted primogeniture in Saxe-Meiningen in 1802. On 27 August 1802 it was ratified by Francis II, Holy Roman Emperor. It governed and theoretically still governs the succession to the territory of Saxe-Meiningen. Henq (talk) 20:32, 1 January 2008

I believe that there is a morganatic branch of the Saxe-Meiningen family, known as the Barons von Saalfeld, that's probably still extant in the agnatic line. They descend from a younger son of Duke Georg II (the last reigning duke) who married unequally.24.128.177.248 (talk) 03:04, 15 January 2008 (UTC)(Windemere)