Talk:Komsomolskaya Square (Moscow)

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	Russia Portal This page is within the scope of WikiProject Russia. If you would like to participate, please join the project and help with our open tasks.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the assessment scale.
???	This article has not yet received an importance rating on the assessment scale.

[edit] Name

Isn't the square called Kalanchevskaya?—This unsigned comment was added by Kuban kazak (talk • contribs) .

This website says it was renamed Three Station Square in 2003. --Ghirla ^-трёп- 16:05, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

See also this. --Ghirla ^-трёп- 16:06, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

So we have two alternatives - Three Station Square and Three Stations Square. Which one is to be preferred? --Ghirla ^-трёп- 16:41, 17 March 2006 (UTC)::::I couldn't reach the umoscow site, by the way; it times out on me. I was also unable to find the Moscow Government Decree about the square being renamed, which is really weird. Nevertheless, a simple Yandex search returns a multitude of references to the square being renamed on August 3, 2003. It seems to me that the name of Three Stations Square is current, correct, and should be used as a title. It would be better, though, if a Muscovite took a picture of a plaque with the square name—it would be the next best thing to finding the actual Decree.—Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) 17:48, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. --Ghirla ^-трёп- 18:03, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

It must have been a hoax — the square is still called Komsomolskaya on yandex maps [1] as well as anywhere else (street addresses). Also read this. I think the article should be corrected. Sascha. 12:21, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

I guess a muscovite's help is in order. Search engine hits regarding renaming are too many to be simply ignored, but on the other hand, I was unable to find any appropriate legislative document dealing with renaming. The easiest way to check is to go to that square and take a picture of the name plaque. One needs to ask around ru wiki if there are no English-speaking muscovites here on en.—Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) • (yo?); 12:04, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

I found a lot of official docs (well, some) referring to the square as Komsomolskaya well after 2003. So it's still a mistake, possibly one station erroneously reported it and all the rest were happily forever quoting each other :)

Публикация: "Вестник Мэра и Правительства Москвы" N 63 ; 16.11.2005 [2]

Sascha. 13:42, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Wouldn't surprise me one bit. You yourself are not by any chance from Moscow, are you? We could really use that picture I mentioned above right about now.—Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) • (yo?); 16:02, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

I am from Moscow. This square called Ploschad' Treh Vokzalov for few years already after renovation. Elk Salmon 19:03, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Would you be able to snap a picture for us, in case this is questioned again in future? Also, a reference to the legal documents showing the name change would be helpful. I did some research, but found nothing. Perhaps you would have more success, since you are based in Moscow and have access to a lot more resources than we do? And would you by any chance know why the documents Sascha. quoted do not mention the square by its new name? It's not that I don't believe you, it's just that we cannot use you in the references section, unfortunately :) Thanks!—Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) • (yo?); 19:11, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, let me summarize: there were some press reports on renaming of Komsomolskaya Square, but:

1. no official doc on renaming was ever found,
2. there is press-release (by MZD that has a lot of facilities there) stating that those reports were not correct and there were no renaming,
3. there are current official docs referring to the Square as Komsomolskaya Square
4. organizations and businesses residing on the Square carry Komsomolskaya Square in their addresses today, 3 years after the supposed renaming (among them Railway Terminals and Federal Customs Service),
5. current maps feature the Square as Komsomolskaya,

and you are still convinced it was renamed? Well then, if that's what it takes, here are some pics :) Sascha. 20:51, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Sascha, есть решение Москвоского правительства от 24 июля 2003 года, вступившего в силу 3 августа 2003 года. Я не уверен, что подобные мелочные решения публикуются на их сайте. Но Российская Газета опубликовала заметку. Площадь переименована - на этом точка. Другое дело - это нерасторопность властей по смене табличек и нерасторопность eatlas.ru по обновлению их карт. и вообще актуальность их карты - 2002-2003 года. Elk Salmon 09:26, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Вы имеете в виду эту заметку в РГ? Но ведь это просто заметка, не официальное сообщение, она вполне может быть и ошибкой. Хотя и официальное сообщение может быть ошибкой, так ведь? Кстати, в ней говорится, что новые таблички уже вывешены, а это как вы видите, ошибка в любом случае. Или у вас инфо из какого-то другого источника? Может быть вы видели сам оригинал решения?

У меня контактов в мэрии или комиссии по наименованиям нет, поэтому я позвонил в АПУ ЦАО. Они сначала посмеялись, а потом сказали — нет конечно никакого переименования, площадь числится у нас по милицейским адресам Комсомольской. Если бы решение было, мы бы о нем знали, т.к. это мы его выполняем. Не то что мы развешиваем таблички, это технический момент, а мы присваиваем сами адреса. К нам такое решение не поступало и все адреса и названия остаются старыми. А поступают такие решения сразу и представить себе что поступление решения к нам могло "задержаться" на три года — ерунда (это их слова, АПУ ЦАО).

Боюсь что я вас все равно не убедил :) Sascha. 10:59, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps this will? Of course, it's just another newspaper, but they at least have a direct quote.—Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) • (yo?); 13:37, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

As we now established the name of the Square (I presume), no more objections to correcting the article(s)? —Sascha. 13:12, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Not on my part.—Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) • (yo?); 14:30, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Площадь трех вокзалов or simply Три вокзала?

So, like I said, I have never heard the KS to be referred to as Площадь трех вокзалов in everyday speak, and I've lived in Moscow all my life. As my exp goes (and I also "polled" a couple of muscovites friends of mine offline, to the same result) people say встретимся на трех вокзалах, not встретимся на (площади) трех вокзалОВ. Note that at the same time they'd often say на комсомольской площади not shedding the word площадь in this case.

Google search for "площадь трех вокзалов" yields 18 100 entries, as much as Таганская площадь, for example. It is a sufficient evidence of widespread usage. And please stop revert warring. --Ghirla ^-трёп- 12:02, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

warring? We are not going to war, not me anyway. Also I have not reverted your last and actually I haven't used revert function at all on this page. As you see I'm trying to be constructive and have no intention of "overreverting" anybody.

As for the article — it is supposed to deal with the real life and not an "Internet mirror-image" of it as such. As a muscovite I do not require the help of Яndex or Google to know how muscovites unofficially call this or that place.—Sascha. 12:55, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Or come on, guys, is this worth fighting over? It looks like both variants are used, with one being more prevalent offline and the other—online. I see no problem in including both. Do you?—Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) • (yo?); 13:37, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Me not! Actually that's what I've done in the last edit — included them both. And if it wouldn't be reverted then it'll stay that way :) —Sascha. 13:50, 9 June 2006 (UTC)