Talk:Komm, süßer Tod (song)

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Komm, süßer Tod (song) article.
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[edit] Possible copyright violation

I am deleting the lyrics from the article, as it is a possible copyright violation. Please see song guidelines for more information. Unless the lyrics are public domain, they cannot be put in the article. -- ReyBrujo 02:25, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

What the heck? Komm, süsser Tod is a Bach piece. Where is the info about that? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.71.240.116 (talk • contribs) .
Does the original piece have lyrics? Could you point to a reliable site with them? -- ReyBrujo 03:41, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

It's a chorale, so of course there's a text. I didn't mean to imply that this song was related to that piece, though - by all means, remove the lyric, it has nothing to do with the original. I'm just surprised that when I looked for info on the piece, I was rewarded with an article about some anime song, which makes no mention of the original source of the title. I didn't intend my comment as a response to yours. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.71.240.116 (talk • contribs) .

Ah, gotcha. -- ReyBrujo 03:55, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bach

I love Evangelion as much as the next guy, but shouldn't Bach's cantata take precedence here? Maybe someone who's familiar with the actual piece should write up a new article and then make a disambiguation page for this and the book. Vesperal 15:29, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Nevermind, the name of the cantata is "Komm, du süsse Todesstunde" which is pretty different. It must have just been a mistake on part of the anonymous searcher. Vesperal 15:35, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
I think the second title (which translates as "come, you sweet hour of death") is probably only an alternate title, considering that the wording of the cantata matches the title used in not only this article, but where I've heard the cantata recording, such as on the Sacred Treasure III album.Judge373 08:14, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Personally I think that the Bach section of the article should come first. Not only is the Bach piece obviously much, much older than the anime song, the anime song derives conceptually from the Bach piece.

Although the Bach piece is indeed older, the Evangelion piece appears to be more notable. Firstly, there is the simple point that no one previously found the Bach piece interesting enough to create a page about it (so far as I know), but this article has been edited by many people. Secondly, the Bach piece does not stand out among his compositions, while the Evangelion piece is a central part of a well-known film. Thirdly, "komm, susser tod" OR "komm, süsser tod" bach receives 25,100 Google hits, while "komm, susser tod" OR "komm, süsser tod" evangelion receives 30,600. Finally, I have seen no evidence that the Evangelion piece "derives" from the Bach piece; as is stated already in the article, it bears more resemblance to "Hey Jude" and Pachebel's Canon. The title being chosen as a possible reference to the Bach piece in no way proves the song derivative. On the whole, it seems most reasonable to me for interested editors to create a separate article about the Bach piece if there is sufficient material for one, with a disambiguation link added to this page. Information on both pieces should not be placed on the same page except insofar as this is relevant to each. Layzner (Talk) 09:16, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
It only *appears* more notable because of self-selection among internet users, i.e., most internet users are geeks well versed in Anime. Really, Evangelion is only a "well-known film" amongst anime fans. The piece by Bach is quite well-known amongst those who know classical music, is a beautiful part of western culture, and is an exquisite work of Baroque polyphony. I might add that in listening to the Bach piece and the Evangelion song, they sound like they're in the same key, and the evangelion song might have a very similar chord progression, only at a much faster tempo. You'd have to get someone better than music theory than I am to listen to it. There's a copy of the bach piece on youtube played by some crappy college band, if you're interested.75.14.59.189 06:56, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
I've got to agree. Bach is Bach. He's one of the supreme masters of art of all time. Evangelion is good, but there is simply no overlap in importance of the two sets - the least important thing about Bach is more important than the most notable Evangelion thing. It's not that Eva is that bad, it's just that he's that good. --Gwern (contribs) 08:37 11 August 2007 (GMT)
"The least important thing about Bach is more important than the most notable Evangelion thing" is clearly against Wikipedia policy. While we are trained to consider such subjects specially worthy, Bach does not infect all material relating to him with extreme notability simply due to the connection. It is true that Evangelion is well-known primarily among anime fans; however, all but a handful of Bach's works are, unfortunate as it may be, not well-known outside a limited subset of society, either. I would feel quite confident in betting that more people would recognise major Evangelion characters and concepts than would recognise a minor Bach piece such as this. I am not saying the Bach piece is not notable - I hope someone is able to create an article on it soon - I am merely suggesting that we should take care not to allow cultural prejudice to creep into our judgement. The theoretical Bach page does not take precedence merely because it is socially correct to honour it more than an item of popular culture. Layzner (Talk) 10:31, 12 August 2007 (UTC)
You know, notability was never about mere popularity. It was originally quite an elitist concept - supposed to be about what experts found important. Not that Larry Sanger would recognize what WP's conception of notability has in large part become, but that's still what it was about. --Gwern (contribs) 11:11 12 August 2007 (GMT)
Personally, I disagree with the notability policy, but such things do lend some necessary structure. Apologies for ranting a bit in my last comment - it looks somedeal overdone now that I read it again... Layzner (Talk) 11:45, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Finally a separate page is created for Bach piece, Komm süsser Tod. Captpossum 04:37, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Spelling?

I've seen both "süsser" and "süßer," which one is correct? My friend suggests the latter, but this page has a mix of both. Stryik 21:46, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Are you sure they aren't just equivalent and "süsser" the transliteration of "süßer"? --Gwern (contribs) 19:38 12 July 2007 (GMT)
That's what I was thinking. Willbyr (talk | contribs) 19:40, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
I think the original spelling might actually be "Komm, susser Tod" - note the (erroneous) "u" instead of "ü". Every official reference and album I consulted, Japanese or English, appears to use this spelling. Considering that this is the title of a song, I suggest that the appropriate protocol would be not to correct the apparent error, but rather to present the title in its original format, provided the original spelling can be verified. (Just between "süsser" and "süßer", I've never seen the latter used in reference to the song except on this page.) Layzner 07:24, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
If no one has further input on the matter, I suggest we move the page to "Komm, susser Tod". Layzner (Talk) 03:30, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
The actual modern German spelling (post spelling reform) would be "Komm süsser Tod". I have a minor in German, in case you guys are wondering how I know.Judge373 08:09, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
Whoever told you that is wrong. ß is replaced by ss in all cases where the preceding vowel is short (under the old rules ß was sometimes used after short vowels depending on surrounding letters. E.g. it was Fuß and Faß, now it's Fuß and Fass). Süßer is pronounced /'zy:sər/, süsser would be /'sysər/ (not quite but the other symbols don't show up in the preview =/ ).
But as a number of people have pointed out, the title of an article about a song should be the original spelling of the song's title. That seems to be "süsser". It's also the way it's written in the Japanese version of this page and on the back of the EoE single http://www.musicofevangelion.com/KIDA-155-BK-SM.jpg 62.245.209.224 00:42, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
I honestly don't care. If the albums that it appears on don't use the umlaut, then that's probably what should be reflected in the article's title. If the change is made, the NGE template link will have to be edited. Willbyr (talk | contribs) 04:55, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
Actually, on the album track listing (both Japanese and overseas versions), it is listed as "Komm, süsser Tod". Tony Myers 10:38, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
I'll gladly move the page back if I was mistaken, but the official Evangelion store's listing for Refrain of Evangelion (http://www.evastore.jp/index.cgi?rm=detail&id=949), Amazon.com and .co.jp's listings for the End of Evangelion soundtrack, Super Robot Taisen Alpha 3, and my US copy of the End of Evangelion soundtrack all seem to say "susser". Layzner (Talk) 11:38, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
Come on guys, just because those stores were too lazy to go find the German umlaut U character doesn't mean it's correct to not have the umlaut. In German, not having the umlaut makes it into a completely non-existent word. It's a very different vowel sound.75.14.59.189 06:34, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
That's funny; I have the US copy of the EoE soundtrack right next to me, and it has the umlaut. Also, online stores typically don't list accented characters. In the first place, it's a German word. Tony Myers 21:20, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Who is Arianne?

Does anyone have any information about the singer of Komm susser tod?

I could not find any information about her anywhere...she seems to be a one off singer? Logical paradox 15:08, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

I have no idea who she is, either, and I don't quite get the emphasis on her being the singer. Willbyr (talk | contribs) 16:08, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
The emphasis might be because there are at least two versions, and there are a lot of other vocals in the second. --Gwern (contribs) 17:06 8 August 2007 (GMT)


Could it possibly be Arianna instead of Arianne? http://www.ariannausa.com/ the voices sound similar. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.82.128.205 (talk) 20:40, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Patti Austin performed the R&B version

Not sure, but I was just listening to some Christmas music and one of her songs were playing and it sounded just like the R&B version of Komm Susser Tod. I never heard of her because I don't know who any of the artist on the VOX album were, but reading about her here she has had some exclusive albums released in Japan. Can any one confirm this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bebopblue (talk • contribs) 15:29, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

I actually read somewhere that it was Loren & Mash, the artist that sang "Thanatos – If I can't be Yours", sang that version of the song. But I'm not so sure that this source was reliable, in fact I can't even remember where I saw this at. –Nahald (talk) 20:31, 19 December 2007 (UTC)