Talk:Knesset

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[edit] Discussion

The proportional system may lead to a more fragmented Knesset - but that's just what the voters have wanted. A plurality system would have devastating results since the parliamentary majority then would have very little to do with the majority in population. The Knesset then would not represent a majority of votes but a majority of constituencies won - which is something very different. A party with only 30% of the votes might win an overwhelming majority of seats.

For a more personalized version of a proportional voting system see Open_list.

This article really is a stub. Unfortunately, I don't know how to expand it. Possibilities:
  • Knesset protocol and customs
  • Knesset as Constituent Assembly

A quick thought as we do this is that the Knesset is sort of an odd duck. On the one hand, the Knesset is still the (ostensibly temporary) Constituent Assembly intended to draw up the Constitution. On the other, it's a normal lawmaking body. This can present a very...unique dynamic. --Penta 18:13, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)

The Knesset was charged with drawing up the constitution of Israel, which was never agreed on, but I've never read anything claiming that was its only function, which is how your sentence reads to me. Robertbrockway 7:04 Apr 22, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Composition

It would be useful to list the composition of each Knesset (ie results after each election).AndyL 05:50, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Jerusalem

The article cannot state that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. The vast majority of the international community recognises that Israel's unilateral declaration is illegal under international law by maintaining their embassies in Tel Aviv - the de facto capital. For wikipedia to retain its integrity, it cannot represent the viewpoint of a single individual or state. If a contributor wishes to present the Israeli viewpoint that Jerusalem is the self-declared capital, then that is fine. However it must also be mentioned that the rest of the world does not recognise this.


SAADS: regarding your entry in Knesset ("Israel's self-proclaimed and internationally unrecognised capital,") just want to point out that USA, UK, Costa Rica, El Salvador, Micronesia, and a host of other countries recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital.

Your wording, "Self-proclaimed and internationally unrecognized" is an a grossly generalized and incorrect term, and smacks of political leaning. Moreover, the recognition of a capital is itself a fluid matter - Palestinian Authority claimes East Jerusalem as its capital and although it's not even a state, its capital is recognized by most countries, similar to Abkhazia. In any case, it is best to point to the article that addresses Jerusalem's recognition issue (as done so by my edit) instead of a blatant overgeneralization stemming from personal politics, ok?

Wikipedia is meant to be a moderate, general source of knowledge without political squabble. See Wikipedia's Neutral Point of View.

If you joined to mark up entries according to your personal beliefs, you joined Wikipedia for the wrong reasons.


First of all, create a username and log in so that you add more credibility to your contributions. Second of all, I suggest you confirm your facts before making bold statements like the "UK... and a HOST of other countries recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital". What UK are you talking about and more importantly what HOST? You yourself added that internal link to the section discussing the status of Jerusalem as Israel's capital. In that same article it says regarding the UK's position, "Pending agreement, we recognise de facto Israeli control of West Jerusalem but consider East Jerusalem to be occupied territory. We recognise no sovereignty over the CITY." So the UK does not recognise Jerusalem as Israel's capital since it does not recognise Israel's sovereignty over the city and it maintains its embassy in Tel Aviv. The United States has also kept its embassy in Tel Aviv. Despite the House resolution, the government of the USA does not recognise Jerusalem as Israel's capital. To quote again from that same page, "However, U.S. presidents, including President Bush, have argued that Congressional resolutions regarding the status of Jerusalem are merely "advisory", stating that it "impermissibly interferes with the President's constitutional authority"". So the point is, do not make statements that you cannot back up with references to trustworthy sources.

Now I am not here to quibble about which countries recognise it and which do not. As you said, the recognition of a capital is a fluid matter, in which case it is not worth mentioning at all. Why mention that Jerusalem is Israel's capital in an article about the Knesset if it is such a politically sensitive statement. That smacks of political leaning since the issue itself has not been resolved. Therefore I suggest removing the statement entirely eliminating the need for this political squabble. Simply link it to the page on Jerusalem and have the reader read on if they choose to do so. Saads 18:09, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

The seat of Israel's government is in the "recognized" or Western part of Jerusalem. Neither the Knesset, Ministry offices or the Prime Minister's Office is in Eastern or "captured" Jerusalem. Since Western Jerusalem is part of the Jerusalem municipal borders, it is entirely justified to have Jerusalem as Israel's captal. ags18 1:54, 14 August 2006 (EST)


Whether or not Jerusalem is the capital of israel, or the seat of government, is not really anything to do with the knesset, which this article is about. There is a section in the Jerusalem article that covers this exact issue and that is the correct place for it. In order to maintain a neutral point of view, I have removed this political issue from the page and left the link to the Jerusalem article. rah 08:30, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pronunciation of the name "Knesset"

Hello. It seems like it would be helpful to indicate the pronunciation of "Knesset" at the beginning of the article. Just a thought. Wile E. Heresiarch 06:51, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

I was just coming to find that out and didn't see it in the article. I'm hoping it's pronounced kuh-NESS-et?

[edit] cat sort

Very few articles should be directly under the 'Israel' super-cat. Just check other large countries for the standard developed there. --Shuki 22:18, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] too big

This election template is much too big and should not be at the top of the article - it is boring and ugly, and will send (most) readers scurrying away.--Gilabrand 08:57, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

So move it then. Be WP:BOLD! Number 57 09:09, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jerusalem as capital

I don't understand why this keeps being removed. Jerusalem (the western part of it) is recognised as Israel's capital (see the CIA World Factbook). This article makes no illusions to East Jerusalem being part of it. The Jerusalem article also states that it is Israel's capital. Number 57 14:44, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

I think you misunderstand the problem. You claim that "The Jerusalem article also states that it is Israel's capital." The Jerusalem article goes into quite a bit more depth than that. The text in question patently ignores the complexity of the issue and favours one particular viewpoint.
Jerusalem's status as the capital of Israel is a contentious issue. If it weren't a contentious issue, nobody would have bothered to remove the text in question in the first place, nor would we be having this discussion. Adding a contentious statement, as this is, and you have done, violates WP:NPOV.
Moreover, this article is about the Knesset, not Jerusalem. The correct place to put neutral statements about Jerusalem's status as a capital city is its own article, not this one.
The issue is not whether Jerusalem is Israel's capital. The issue is that making statements on the subject that favour one point of view, in the article on the Knesset, is not appropriate for Wikipedia.
Adding an unnecessary, contentious statement about a subject that is covered in its own article is bad editing. Robert Ham 08:44, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Again, the Knesset is in West Jerusalem. This has always been the capital of the State of Israel regardless of the addition of East Jerusalem and is not an issue. As for the purpose of mentioning where the Knesset is, it is perfectly relevant as not all seats of government are located in the capital (e.g. in Holland where Amsterdam is the capital but the Hague is the seat of government). Number 57 09:00, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
There is a discrepancy between what you are arguing, and what you are adding to the article. Your edits claim that the whole of Jerusalem is the capital; you do not qualify Jerusalem. Meanwhile, your arguments do qualify the place as West Jerusalem. This is the source of conflict. The qualification should be in the article, not just the talk page. Robert Ham 09:12, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Party "nicknames"

In the English-language press here in Israel (e.g., the "Jerusalem Post" [1], Jerusalem Online) the Gil party is referred to as "Pensioners" or "the Pensioners' Party", so I have added the annotation in the table. (That information - the English name of the party - is already included in the article head for Gil.) In discussions about politics, too, my coterie at least refers to them as "Pensioners" (or "the old people" image:smiley.gif), so I can attest, for what WP:OR that it's worth, that this is common usage amongst Israeli Anglos.

I was WP:BOLD and added it, but now I'm posting the discussion — are there other parties with English "nicknames", and how (orthographically speaking) should that be indicated in the table (and elsewhere)?

  1. ^ Try searching for "pensioners" on JPost and see how many hits you get.

P.S. I'm also trying to divert attention away from the whole anti-Zionist "disenfranchisement of Jerusalem as Israel's capital" argument thing.

--Eliyahu S Talk 13:32, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Description of Jerusalem

The current description of Jerusalem violates WP:NPOV. Describing Jerusalem solely from an Israeli perspective is WP:POV. The problem is that any succinct description of Jerusalem that doesn't mention Palestinian interests will be WP:POV. The only way not to violate WP:NPOV is to explain the situation in more depth, which kind of obviates the presence of such a description in the opening paragraph.

I'd also note that the issue here is the description of Jerusalem, not the Knesset itself. Robert Ham 08:38, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Firstly, I don't think it does. Jerusalem being the capital is not in question; which bits of Jerusalem are/should/will be the Israeli capital is. I believe that an explanation would only be necessary if the building was in a contentious area (i.e. East Jerusalem and the Old City), but it is not.
Secondly, a description of Jerusalem is entirely relevant to this article. Some countries do not have their seat of government in the capital (e.g. Holland), whilst others have their parliaments and seat of governments in different cities (e.g. South Africa). пﮟოьεԻ 57 13:25, 26 October 2007 (UTC)


That doesn't really make much sense. Rather than trying to clarify what you mean, perhaps it would be more productive to ask: what are you trying to say with this description? Why do you want it in the article? Robert Ham 16:29, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
I'm assuming your silence means you have no reason for the description. I'll remove it. Robert Ham 09:23, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
No, my silence just meant I had nothing else to say. The point has been made. I have reverted the main article as it seems more people prefer to keep the Jerusalem description in than not. пﮟოьεԻ 57 09:27, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
No, the point hasn't been made. Your comment is barely understandable, let alone reasonable. Perhaps you could rephrase your comment to make what you're trying to say clearer? Robert Ham 10:07, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
I'm sorry, but I don't see how I could rephrase it to be any simpler, but I will try: (i) The Knesset is in West Jerusalem (ii) West Jerusalem is not disputed territory and is accepted to be Israel's capital (iii) not all country's capitals and seat of government (or even seat of parliament) are in the same place, so it is relevant to mention it in an article about a parliament.
Additionally, I see from your edit summaries that you have a problem with WP:CIVILity (calling people's edits "moronity" and "foolishness"). Perhaps you should try and edit some non Judaism/Israel/Palestinian related articles if they are causing you grief. пﮟოьεԻ 57 10:20, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
(i) The article doesn't say it is in West Jerusalem
(ii) Nobody is disputing the status of West Jerusalem
(iii) The issue is not the status of West Jerusalem, or Jerusalem as any country's capital. The issue is stating that it is Israel's capital without stating that it is also the future capital of the Palestinian State. To omit that major viewpoint violates WP:NPOV.
The following seems to be an appropriate restatement of the issue:
It is located in Jerusalem, which contains the Seat of Government of Israel and is also claimed as its capital.
This contains the same information as the current sentence and doesn't limit itself to an Israeli viewpoint. Robert Ham 10:49, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
I don't like the phrase "claimed". Lots of countries claim land which isn't theirs (e.g. Spain and Gibraltar, Argentina and the Falklands). How about: "It is located in the western sector of Jerusalem, the seat of government and capital of the State of Israel." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Number 57 (talk • contribs) 10:54, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
That sentence is ambiguous; it isn't clear if the seat of government and capital is Jerusalem, or the western sector of Jerusalem. It reintroduces the POV. How about "It is located in Jerusalem, which contains the Seat of Government of Israel and is also asserted to be its capital." Robert Ham 11:02, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
Hmmm. Asserted is just another way of saying claimed, so it doesn't really solve the problem. How about removing "sector of", just leaving "It is located in the western Jerusalem, the seat of government and capital of the State of Israel"? пﮟოьεԻ 57 11:11, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
That sentence has exactly the same ambiguity as the previous one. The problem is that you want to say in the opening paragraph that Jerusalem is Israel's capital, but don't want to say that it's also the capital of the future Palestinian State. There is no way to resolve this; either you omit the Palestinian view and violate WP:NPOV, or include it and have a verbose opening paragraph. I have to wonder: is it really necessary to point out that Israel has its capital and seat of government in the same place, in the opening paragraph to an article on the Knesset? Robert Ham 15:50, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, but now you are WP:CRYSTAL balling. Whilst I am hopeful that there will be a Palestinian state ASAP, it is far from certain, especially whether they will actually manage to get Jerusalem or not. пﮟოьεԻ 57 16:07, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

This article isn't about Jerusalem or its status as capitol. I therefor don't see any need to mention anything about Jerusalem other than the fact that the knesset is located there. Any uneducated reader would read "the knesset is in jerusalem, thus jerusalem must be israels capital" thus making everybody happy (more or less). Rami R 16:38, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] too many lists

There are too many long boring lists in this article. The list of previous locations should be turned into a prose paragraph without numbering.--Gilabrand 09:57, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

The statement about the land being leased from the Greek Patriarchate is fine, but the source doesn't match. The article is about selling land. Leasing and selling are not the same thing!! On top of that, the article says nothing about the Knesset. --Gilabrand 10:10, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

The current reference is much better. Thanks!--Gilabrand 10:20, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
No worries - I wish I had found that source the first time round! пﮟოьεԻ 57 10:27, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Postage stamps and postal history of Israel

For the Israel stamp collectors and lovers, there is no article yet for Postage stamps and postal history of Israel (part of Category:Postal history by country) that would have so many Jewish themes. Feel free to go ahead and start it. (See the other country's in Category:Postage stamps by country that have theirs.) Nothing for Israel on Category:Postage stamps by country neither on List of country articles containing postal sections nor on List of philatelic bureaus. (but just a teeny note on Israel at Compendium of postage stamp issuers (Io - Iz).) This is truly a great shame and pity because Israel, and before that when it was the British Mandate produced and continues to issue the most beautiful and extensive stamps by any country. Thank you, IZAK (talk) 11:19, 18 January 2008 (UTC)