Talk:Klingonaase

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	Star Trek Portal This article is part of WikiProject Star Trek, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to all Star Trek-related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the quality scale.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale.

	This article is within the scope of the WikiProject Constructed languages, an attempt at creating a standardized, informative, and easy-to-use resource about constructed languages, aka conlangs. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. If listing this article for deletion or if there is an active edit war, please post a note here.	Constructed languages Portal
Start	This article has been rated as Start-Class on the class scale.
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the importance scale.
	This article needs a language infobox.

[edit] Language group

I read somewhere (the swedish translation of the Klingon dictionary, I think...) that Klingon was considered a "language group" or "continuum", similar to german, or (possibly) chinese, and that certain dialects were unintelligible to others. The main dialect was the one the klingon chief leader decided to use, and it was considered quite subversive to use another dialect (for official purposes or for inter-klingon communication, I'd guess.) Anyway, I guess this was some kind of explanation for "klingonaase" and other old "dialects", if this could be attested by others, we could add it to the page. I thought it was interesting.

That's possible, but far more likely is the simpler idea that there may be more than one Klingon language. Klingonaase has almost nothing in common with tlhIngan Hol, and I think it would be sensible to just call them two different languages. After all, there are more than six thousand Terran languages. thefamouseccles 23:44, 19 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Hmmm, but terrans are a species of quite unorderly individuals, who, since as far back as we know, quite haphazardly make up their own standards of thinking and living in small groups, regardless of what other people are doing at a different place...

Klingons are a WARRIOR culture, which suggests that they've had a history of war on their planet. In turn, that suggests that, at least historically, there must've been at least a few distinct cultures with separate languages. It seems reasonable that some of thsoe would've survived. Besides, unless their planet has only a single small continent, it's hard to imagine how a single language could exist Nik42 02:39, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Are the two languages mutually inteligible? That is, can a speaker of Klingon understand a speaker of Klingonaase and vice versa? Mutual intelligibility is a good test of whether Klingonaase is a dialect of Klingon or not. --Funkmaster 801 16:32, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

As I stated in my first post, it seemed the different dialects could be unintelligible. (The source is the official English edition of the Klingon dictionary, btw, don't remember the exact quote). I don't think the word "dialect" is used in a strict linguistic sense. The Klingonaase corpus is very limited, but seems freely available online, uhh, somewhere. Maybe someone with good knowledge of Klingon could add examples of common Klingonaase words along with their Klingon equivalents. (According to thefamouseccles' statement "Klingonaase has almost nothing in common with tlhIngan Hol", I'd interpret it as the two languages likely being mutually unintelligible.) 惑乱 分からん 02:20, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Since the above 29 January 2006 comment, a klingonaase/tlhIngan Hol word comparison table has been added to the main klingonaase page.   Except for what they both took from the few Klingon words (devised by James Doohan and spoken by Mark Lenard) in Star Trek: The Motion Picture, Ford's klingonaase and Okrand's tlhIngan Hol have no vocabulary in common, and the few phrases (as opposed to single words) that appear in klingonaase do not suggest anything resembling tlhIngan Hol's distinctive syntax.   This has not stopped Klingon fans from using both languages, as indicated here. -- SAJordan 14:22, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Non-canon

"...Ford's version of Klingon language and culture have never been used in any canonical Star Trek work." - debatable; Ford was the first to portray Klingons positively, as protagonists; His influence made figures like Lt. Worf and later Klingons possible. Gene Roddenberry might've come up with the idea independently, but The Final Reflection made the idea a hit with the fans before Roddenberry came up with Lt. Worf and all later positive portrayals of the Klingons. -JJR

In "Requiescat in Pace, John M. Ford", Eric Burns suggests that the popularity of Ford's inside look at Klingon culture, and his positive portrayal of Klingons as an honorable people by their own lights (not simply stock villains), also influenced the canonical depiction in later incarnations of Star Trek, paving the way for honor-driven Klingons like Worf, and episodes that would likewise explore Klingon culture in more depth than the original series had done. Burns details specific aspects of Klingon culture (such as a disdain for taking hostages) that appeared first in The Final Reflection and later in TV episodes. -- SAJordan 13:30, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Disambiguation proposal

The structural relation of pages on klingonaase and tlhIngan Hol is a topic at Talk:Klingon_language, in the sections Merge with Klingonaase? and Disambiguation proposal. -- SAJordan 13:52, 23 October 2006 (UTC)