User talk:KjellG

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[edit] Welcome!

Since you haven't been welcomed yet...

Welcome!

Hello, KjellG, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes ~~~~; this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question and then place {{helpme}} before the question on your talk page. Again, welcome! Lisatwo 01:38, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: German military ranks?

I don't know the answer myself, but I forwarded your question to Kirill Lokshin, who seems to be active in the German military history task force of the Military history wikiproject. Lisatwo 02:18, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

In case you haven't read this yet, Kirill's reply on my talk page states:
I don't usually work with WWII-era articles all that much, so I'm not quite sure what the current practice is—you may want to ask at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history/German military history task force instead—but I'd think that "Grand Admiral Dönitz" would be the correct form of a first mention everywhere outside Dönitz's own article; compare the typical use of "Captain" instead of "Kapitän zur See", for example.
(Obviously, subsequent mentions do just fine with merely "Dönitz"; it's typically not necessary to give a rank more than once.) Kirill 02:35, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
Hope this helps, Lisatwo 22:06, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Prefixes

Kjell, do you really think it's all that good to remove the HNoMS from a number of RNoN ships? I don't protest the fact that in Norwegian the ships didn't have prefixes prior to 1946, but there an issue of consistency here, don't you think? And "Name (Ship)" is a bit colourless too, it doesn't really give a sense of that this is a warship. Manxruler (talk) 23:08, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

If we're going to change the system to not include prefixes for the pre-1946 ships then we're going to need a better name, for the Eidsvold class ships for example: Eidsvold (coastal defence ship). Besides, did you ever stop to consider the redirect problems we got out of these moves? I'm moving the articles back until we can decide on the naming convention for the pre-1946 ships, that is the ships no longer in service by 1946. This was a bold move, and now it needs some thinking through. Manxruler (talk) 23:15, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
Firstly, KNM is not used on W:no for the Eidsvold class, only Norge, Eidsvold and Tordenskjold. Normally they should read «Norge», «Eidsvold», etc. on no:, but that will conflict with article Norway and the village of Eidsvold, so the carry the name «Eidsvold» (panserskip) (1901-1940) etc. I do not know the correct translation for "pansership" into english, but maybe that "battle cruiser" will do? so HNoMS «Eidsvold» -> Eidsvold (battle cruiser)? Imo we should not go back to HNoMS as theese ships never used that prefix. KjellG (talk) 23:31, 17 May 2008 (UTC)
«Name» is the Norwegian way of writing ship names, here we should stick to Name. "Battle cruiser" is about as far away from these ships as we could possibly get. The correct term is coastal defence ship. On this Wikipedia the country to which the ship belongs should be included in the name, so the only non-HNoMS name that would be possible, in the case of Eidsvold, would be "Norwegian coastal defence ship Eidsvold". Now, the problem is that loads of the pre-1946 ships also served post-1946 and what do we then call them? And what names did the ships go under when they where in exile 1940-1945? You see the problems here? Besides, you haven't exactly got a fixed system for ship names over at Norwegian Wikipedia, see for example KNM «Draug». Shouldn't that be fixed first? Manxruler (talk) 01:05, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
I did not suggest «Name» as in norwegian, but Eidsvold (battle cruiser). The reason I did not suggest (battle cruiser), but (ship) in the first place was that I did not feel this to be correct, as you have pointed out. Please find a better English exp. As for other non british ships, have a look at how this is solved for this German ship and this this German ship. I'm still of the opinion that KNM/HNoMS should not be used on ships that never used any prefix. As for KNM «Draug», find also this to be wrong, but let's keep the discussion to the English WP. As for ship names and categories, its clearly a hasle. KjellG (talk) 12:59, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
I also agree that it is a fact that KNM was not used for Norwegian naval ships before 1946, but using HNoMS in all ship articles have been a stable and good compromise solution for a long time now. HNoMS is not a translation of KNM and if we should decide to go in a different direction we would at least need to figure out when Norwegian ships started to be called HNoMS (by the British?). There are so many problems connected with going away from the present solution that I strongly oppose it. By the way: I believe further discussion should take place here to include as many relevant editors as possible.Inge (talk) 19:39, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
I agree with the above statements by Inge. Manxruler (talk) 20:11, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

I was also about to shift this dicussion to a more public place, but was overrun by Inge. Looking forward to a good solution on this isssue. KjellG (talk) 20:30, 18 May 2008 (UTC)