Talk:Kitchen stove

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Kitchen stove article.
Please sign and date your posts by typing four tildes (~~~~). Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Ask questions, get answers. This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject.	Be polite Assume good faith No personal attacks Be welcoming	Article policies No original research Neutral point of view Verifiability

Contents 1 You know you're reading Wikipedia when... 2 Merge discussion 2.1 Summary of proposals 2.2 Discussion of proposals 3 Article changes related to Stove/Cooker/Cookstove

[edit] You know you're reading Wikipedia when...

In cooking, a cooker is an appliance designed for the purpose of cooking food^{[citation needed]}.[1]

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.75.48.150 (talk • contribs) 17:23, 14 September 2007

This would have been more amusing if said tag hadn't been the last thing added to the article. Sigh. Chris Cunningham 12:02, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merge discussion

[edit] Summary of proposals

Here are the basics of the discussion to merge, split and edit the various stove articles and component parts therein:

• Merge the culinary information into a single article titled either Cook stove or Kitchen stove;
• Split out the heating device as Heating stove;
• Move the Stove article information about the industrial device that is left to the Industrial stove.

What will need to be done after the proposal (if successful):

• Create a Stove (disambiguation) page;
• Fix all of the redirects, including Cooktop, Range and Wood-burning stove;
• Clean-up all of the articles as needed (I think that job will be a doozy...).

I hope this properly summarizes what this discussion is about - Jeremy (Jerem43 08:01, 26 September 2007 (UTC))

Yeah this is ambitious Jeremy, I think this looks good though as I was getting confused myself. I'm proposing a similar thing with Oven and the multitude of smaller oven articles, but it isn't as messy as this. Good luck, let me know if I can help.--Chef Christopher Allen Tanner, CCC 08:06, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

• Let's keep the Oven discussion on the Oven merge discussion page and not on here, two different topics and not associated--Chef Christopher Allen Tanner, CCC 16:11, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Except for that stove/cook top+oven combination thing found in many kitchens. (Based on the images included in the articles I believe this is covered at both Stove and Cooker. Once again, a summary style article could easily deal with this.) Ewlyahoocom 16:28, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

You are partly correct, but clay ovens, stone ovens, adobe ovens, etc. do not fit into the stove category at all which are covered in Oven. In modernity the oven is "often" part of a stove, but only in modern western designs.--Chef Christopher Allen Tanner, CCC 16:55, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion of proposals

Please discuss the merger with Cook stove here. - Jeremy (Jerem43 21:58, 25 September 2007 (UTC))

• Merge - The subjects of these two articles are nearly identical. The former refers to gas and electric devices while the latter refers combustion fueled devices. They are about the same type of device but only differ to heating sources. - Jeremy (Jerem43 22:01, 25 September 2007 (UTC))
• Merge with amendment - I think the article Cooker should be merged into Cook Stove, while Stove should have the culinary stove information removed and be renamed Industrial stove with a disambiguation as they have two completely different histories and uses. The problem is that is "Heating stove" included under "Industrial stove" or do we make a third article just for heating stove as that has a completely separate history and huge cultural aspect to it depending on what country or region you look at, this is perhaps what part of the debate should be. As such I feel this is not so much about the single merge as it is separating the overlapping information into their own separate articles.--Chef Christopher Allen Tanner, CCC 02:15, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
• Oppose Cook stove is about modern use of a "very basic stove...the most common way of cooking and heating food in developing countries." In fact, Cooker should probably be merged into Stove (where some of Cooker's bolded terms e.g. Cooktop and Kitchen range already redirect -- although Kitchen stove redirects to Cooker!). Then the picture of the "Stove manufacture in Senegal" should probably be moved to Cook stove. Finally, the combined Cooker+Stove page should be moved to Kitchen stove, and Cook stove could be moved someplace less ambiguous! Ewlyahoocom 07:32, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
  • Comment - It would seem that Ewlyahoocom Oppose opinion on the discussion should be changed to Merge with amendment as he seems to be proposing a variation on what Christopher Tanner said. I am going to ask him. - Jeremy (Jerem43 08:01, 26 September 2007 (UTC))

It's a discussion, not a WP:VOTE. Anyone who reads the discussion should understand my position. In any case, I think the Cook stove article should be mostly left alone. Additionally, AGA cooker seems to a well written article, it probably shouldn't be merged. Wood-fired oven and Masonry oven could probably be merged together. I don't mean to be obvious, but are you all familiar with the Wikipedia:Summary style? Ewlyahoocom 08:16, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

I know that it is not a vote, I used the wrong word when I posted to your discussion page. I was just asking because it just seems you basically proposed a variation on what I have proposed. These articles are a mess, and they really should be cleaned up. You might be right, maybe we should look at this and merge them so they read like the Furnace article. This is an extremely complected subject that needs some serious review. - Jeremy (Jerem43 08:45, 26 September 2007 (UTC))

• Oppose Merger with Cook stove, it is about modern use of a "very basic stove...the most common way of cooking and heating food in developing countries." The picture of the "Stove manufacture in Senegal" should probably be moved here, though.
• Support Merger of Cooker into Stove (where some of Cooker's bolded terms e.g. Cooktop and Kitchen range already redirect -- although Kitchen stove redirects to Cooker!) and move to Kitchen stove.
• Comment Since we have so many articles about stoves and ovens, I propose that Stove and Oven become summary style/overview articles where there are multiple brief sections each linking to a "Main" article (e.g. see Auto racing) Ewlyahoocom 08:55, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

• Comment:

cook stove in its current form needs a rewrite. It's an essay on third world cooking improvements more than anything else. I would encourage a merge if we could give it some proper focus.

A split to industrial stove is a quite good plan, but that doesn't cover historic heat-only stoves. stove (heating) is pretty ghastly, but might work.

I support keeping the main cooker article at cooker because that's a less US-centric / archaic term.

While I would support WP:SUMMARY style for cooker as "generic cooking appliance", I'd assume this meant a merge with oven. Otherwise things get very confusing with, say, microwave oven, which is an atraditional device.

Action plan: merge as much in here (oven, cook stove) as possible, aiming to eventually use cooker as a WP:SUMMARY for all cooking devices. Use stove as a disambiguation page and avoid using it in other articles (because it's so ambiguous).

Chris Cunningham 11:25, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

• Oppose Merge — "In cooking, a cooker is an appliance designed for the purpose of cooking food." That pretty much describes crock pots, broilers, bread making machines and Easy-Bake toys.
• Comment I think that would call for an expansion of the article Cooker to include those appliances and a "See also" summary for Cook stove". And Cook stove is a nice description of a sociological movement but it's not NPOV and it certainly is a stretch of the definition of a stove. If anything it needs a new title. Awotter (talk) 02:37, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Article changes related to Stove/Cooker/Cookstove

I have made some changes to the summaries of stove and cooker in the hopes of clarifying the above discussion (complicated a bit by the change of cookstove to Biomass Cook Stove, that's what I get for making a suggestion someone then implements). As I read the articles I could see the logical reasoning behind having two separate articles (even though they are related).

So I tried to reflect that in both articles in the simplest way possible with stove left as it is (mainly about heating) and cooker showing the evolution from stoves that replaced open fires for heating and cooking, to the stand alone appliance that developed after the use of stoves as heat source became displaced by central heating.

Any stove linked article or redirect that used stove solely in reference to cooking I changed to cooker. Even though I'm used to the American usage of stove vs it seems to make sense to keep to the distinction so the usage isn't American centric. Awotter (talk) 04:22, 24 November 2007 (UTC)