Talk:Kirksville, Missouri

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[edit] Nickname

"K-Vegas" is used mostly by college students from Truman. Eab969 21:22, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

"K-vegas" was recently added as a nickname. Never heard that one, but that doesn't mean anything. ANybody else heard it? DavidOaks 20:59, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

We're gonna need something a little more solid, or it has to go -- we've got a clothing store and a column in the Index for "the 'Ville" -- is there a story behind "K-vegas?" I never heard this term, but of course that's neither here nor there. DavidOaks 22:50, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
"K-Vegas" started as a theme for a casino night type event, a play on "Las Vegas". Now it is used as a fun nickname, without the context of casino games.Eab969 13:51, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
Yes, it comes up with a few hits on Google that definitely indicate it's in circulation as a nickname. DavidOaks 18:49, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Why is my name constantly being deleted from this Web Service? Also to one "Mrs." David Oaks I can bench your house, you'd best back down. I would surmise that you don't even live here. And who calls Kirksville "The 'Ville"???!!!!? Good day to you, ma'am. ~~Mike Bartig~~

When I was a kid, living in Kirksville, we always called it the Kirksville State Teachers' College. jaknouse 20:39, 23 Feb 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Merging

This article seems to be cut and pasted from Kirksville. As a result the page history of the article and talk page is split among these pages. This needs to be fixed per Wikipedia:Candidates for speedy deletion#Technical reasons number "2". Paedia | talk 13:47, 2004 Apr 15 (UTC)

I just tried to revert everything to do a proper move, but Wikipedia won't let me because of the page history! Aargh. I apologize for not doing the move correctly in the first place. jaknouse 15:54, 15 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Only Wikipedia:Administrators may fix cut and paste moves. Paedia | talk 16:17, 2004 Apr 15 (UTC)

[edit] local term: "Cricker"

I moved to Kirksville when I was 8. I went to Washington School, the Upper Elementary, Olphelia Parish Junior High (the last year it was used) and graduated from Kirksville Senior High. I did 2 years at NMSU and then finished my degree at the University of Missouri. One thing that is unique (I think) to Kirksville is the slur "cricker." It's somewhat analogous to white trash. I've never met anyone who wasn't from Kirksville who was knew the term.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.176.184.138 (talk • contribs) 18:25, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

It's awesome you're from the 'Ville, but what does this have to do with the article? --KHill-LTown 02:10, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
I guess I included it because I did not know how to include that bit of local etymological information in the main article and will let more experienced Wikipedians decide whether or not and how to include it. 67.176.184.138 18:09, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
"Cricker" is a distinctive local term. Short for "sh*tcricker," reference to the open sewer that ran along the western edge of the old town -- not surprisingly, the poor district, as well as the black part of town, when Kirksville had a significant black population. There's history regarding that as well, but I'll wait to hear if anyone thinks it should be posted.01:53, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
Ahh. Well, being in Kirksville right now and with family in the region, I've honestly not heard the term in common parlance. Then again, I'm immersed in the University community, and the rift between the University and community is a whole another can of worms, especially with the mission change's 20th anniversary (and 10th anniversary of the name change) this year. Many of us on Wikipedia will consider whether to add it or not.
Thanks for bringing it up. As always, your contributions are welcome, and you're more than welcome to create a username! --KHill-LTown 18:52, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Notable People

I restored Carolyn Roehm to the notable people section. The reason given for deletion was that the deleter had never heard of her, and therefore nobody on Wikipedia should, either. Whether one particular individual already knows a thing is not a good yardstick for whether the thing is worth knowing. A quick Google suggests she's not invisible. DavidOaks 16:46, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

So noted, but make sure there's an actual article attached to it. Wikipedia is not a listing of random people, and though I am in no capacity the sole arbiter of who's who in this town, I've yet to see any proof of Ms. Roehm's significance. Else, I might as well list ever furniture dealer and spotlight operator in town. --KHill-LTown 17:08, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Alex Linder

I have deleted Mr. Linder from the "Notable Citizens" category. A quick poll of Chamber leaders, business leaders, and officials in Kirksville indicates Mr. Linder is not a notable citizen and that his white supremacist viewpoint is a damaging and regrettable blight on the town. Mr. Linder is certainly entitled to his opinions, wrong they may be, but he is not entitled to be a self-selected "notable citizen." Aanast (talk) 18:00, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree 100% with your estimation of Linder's general appeal, but it's the wrong standard: a Chamber of Commerce and other local leaders legitimately want to cast the town in a good light, but that just isn't the purpose of an encyclopedia. Now, the guy's hardly a bragging point, but he's undeniably notable (makes national news, is on the radar of the ADFL and the SPLC, and has a Wikipedia article; moreover, he writes with a Kirksville dateline and appears – disruptively -- at events there). Can we agree that "notable" does not mean "admirable"? It would be a good thing for the Chamber to do what they can within the boundaries of the law to make Mr. Linder go away, but there's no justification for trying to make facts disappear. If these remarks do not clarify things, then we probably should submit the question to mediation [1] (talk) 18:12, 10 January 2008 (UTC) modified for tone DavidOaks (talk) 18:34, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Mr. Oaks, I agree that we should move to mediation. Mr. Linder may be notorious, not notable, and the civic leaders in Kirksville have every right to want their town to be cast in a favorable light. People use Wikipedia for research...and for my end, this all began when I learned that a physician recruiter had questions from an African-American physician who is looking to begin practice in Kirksville. Understandably, he was concerned about having a white supremacist listed as one of our notable citizens. We do not want one bad apple to spoil the barrel. Kirksville isn't perfect, but Mr. Linder's viewpoints are not representative of the community as a whole - or even a minority. They Chamber has no recourse to make Mr. Lindrer "go away" - he has a right to his opinions, what we need to decide as a group is if he has a right to represent our community. Aanast (talk) 19:33, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Aanast, I'm afraid you fighting a hopelessly loosing battle here. As long as Mr. Linder has a wikipedia page, he is notable enough to list in this article, and I very much doubt that your going to get the page deleted. Remember that Wikipedia is not saying anything that resembles Mr. Linder's viewpoint as being representative of Kirksville. Wikipedia is simply saying, that here is a notable person of lives in Kirksville. If you want to improve Wikipedias' coverage of Kirksville I encourage you to take pictures, write an economy section, or provide sources, but don't try to hide facts and change Wikipedia policy. It would also be good to read Wikipedia:Notability (people) and remember that Wikipedia is not censored good or bad.Grey Wanderer | Talk 20:11, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

I have to disagree with the above. Mr. Linder is a no-show in our community. He does not go public, nor cause any local uproar. My best estimate is that he lives in an apartment with thick blinds and quietly and cautiously types at the keyboard like a coward. Notable indicates that one is an active part of our community, of which Mr. Linder is not. I understand and agree that notable can be good or bad, but the simple fact is that Mr. Linder is not a notable part of this community. He may be notable within the anti-jew circles. His long article does not even mention Kirksville. The relationship of him living here is solely coincidence and nothing further and thus, bearing him NOT notable for Kirksville citizens.


Here’s documentation that he’s pretty strongly identified with the town. Rationale for deleting him from the list needs to address this evidence, and present counterevidence, rather than simply trying to make facts go away. Meanwhile, the listing should be restored.
  • The ADL identifies him with Kirksville:

http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/alex_linder.asp?LEARN_Cat=Extremism&LEARN_SubCat=Extremism_in_America&xpicked=2&item=linder

  • Encyclopedia Dramatica also links him to the town (URL blacklisted)
  • His own kind, “Aryan Awakening” and “Stormfront” link him to the city.
  • His last appearance in the national news (last summer, during his arrest at the Knoxville incident), he and his network were identified as based in Kirksville.
  • Googling "alex linder" + Kirksville gets 3200 hits; googling, say, "alex linder" + Vincennes (an Indiana town of roughly comparable size) gets 24 hits. If he were not linked to Kirksville, we’d expect a much smaller difference.
Yeah, his article should probably include a mention of where he hangs his spiked helmet.
You’re right, he’s a coward. But he was reported as a presence at Nader’s visit to campus, where he was saved by campus police from at least a jostling; he also showed up at a production of Fiddler on the Roof to distribute his anti-semitic literature
Now, trying to make all this go away is practicing denial. The express intention to make this information invisible to black people who are wondering what the town is like is really unsettling, and very, very far from what an encyclopedia should do.
I find this guy loathsome. I wish he weren’t connected with Kirksville. But an encyclopedia is not a record of things we wish were true. The note needs to remain. Maybe it will make people mad enough to do what they can – always within the rule of law – to convince him that this is just not the kind of place he wants to be. The factuality of his prominence and presence here is hard to refute. Given that, how can we deliberately delete him from the list without affirming that we are manipulating facts in order to produce the reality we desire? And how can we square that with what Wikipedia, what any encyclopedia, is for? DavidOaks (talk) 14:39, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
The usual standard for inclusion in a "notable residents" listing is a) some indication that the person once lived in the place, and b) the presence of a Wikipedia article about the person. "Notable" people have biographies, non-notable people don't. Notability is different then likeability. If Charles Manson had grown up in this place we'd still list him as a notable resident. Since Linder is undoutedly notable (by Wikipedia standards), and since there is no dispute that he lives in the place, the listing appears appropriate. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 21:18, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Founding

I am providing you here a more accurate history of the Founding of Kirksville. Unfortunately people tend to rely on Violette’s History, which is not always accurate. Violette, himself, committed wholesale plagiarism in his history from earlier sources, the most notable being the 1888 Illustrated History of Adair, Sullivan, Putnam, and Schuyler Counties, Missouri. You may use this information to update your article advantageously:

The Treaty of August 4, 1824, made at Washington City, ratified 1826, ceded title to all lands in Missouri held by the Sacs, Foxes, and Iowas. In 1829 Chief Che-Quesa (Big Neck) led 60 to 70 warriors back into the Chariton Valley and killed some hogs belong to the settlers. Isaac Gross, John Cain, and Jim Meyers visited Che-Quesa and protested both the killing and their presence. Upon being informed that the Chief and his warriors intended to stay they traveled south to the house of William Blackwell, in Randolph County, where a troop was raised and they went to evict the Indians. Routed the settlers fled south down the Chariton towards the Randolph County Settlements. Another Company under Capt. John Sconce was raised and upon return to the battlefield found that the Indians had retreated. The early pioneers of the county settled upon the lands of George and Philip Cain and King Collet located six miles west of where Kirksville is now located. At this time the nearest settlement was located in Macon County to the south and held by James Loe. Early in 1829 saw the arrival of the Clifton, Cain, and Miller families. The Site of the Town of Kirksville was settled between the decade of 1846-1856.

The Village (now City) of Kirksville was established on a Pre-emption Grant (certificate no. 26406) of the North West Quarter of Section Nine in Township Sixty-Two, of Range Fifteen; in the District of Lands subject to sale at Fayette, Missouri; containing 160 acres.The Patent was issued under The Act of 26th, May, 1824 and The Act of 24th, April, 1820 on December 1st, 1848. This was based upon claim made by Jonathan Floyd Trustee Adair County Commissioners under the Acts above sited on December 25th, 1846 and recorded at the Land Office in Boonville Missouri for the establishment of the County Seat.

Though selected in 1841 for the site of the seat of justice for Adair County, the Village of Kirksville dates from the Act, approved January 30th 1857 incorporating the Town. In 1841 the site was selected by Jefferson Collins, L. B. Mitchell, and Thomas Ferrell and a plat was established in 1842. The village was bounded by the south line of McPherson Street on the south, by Illinois Street on the north, the alley east of Marion on the east and Main Street on the west. (The Original Town of Kirksville Plat shows a slightly larger area most notably toward the south) and the first sale of town lots was made in 1846.

The settlements of Long Point 1830-1840, and The Cabins 1841 while close onto Township Sixty-Two of Range 15 and being in the Benton Township should not be confused with the site of the Village of Kirksville. (Galiel 23:08, 29 January 2007 (UTC))

The plat info is probably too detailed for inclusion in a general encyclopedia. As for the names, this is original research, and runs against the oldest authorities, which clearly indicate that the Adair County communities were identified with, if not identical to one another on a plat. Historical info reworded and restored. 66.141.254.119 01:03, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
What you are relying on is Violette’s History pg. 342 written in 1911. It is not one of the “the oldest authorities”. Long Point as a farm settlement is distinctly sited in the 1888 Illustrated History as being outside of Kirksville and important only in the fact that a small blockhouse was built there on the ridge in the early 1830s, it would be in error to consider it more than a minor trading post and fortificaton against the indians to the north. Violette chooses to take the position that this was an earlier name of the town based upon two lines in the 1888IH on pp250/252 while ignoring other distinct passages clearly stating that the blockhouse built on Long Point Ridge was outside of Kirksville. – Kirksville is located about one end of Long Point Ridge, it is not the site of the blockhouse settlement. I can find no mention of Hopkinsville in the 1888IH. I must consider Hopkinsville to be apocraphyl as the only citation I can find is in Violette and he, himself in his preface admits that he has not done adequate research in regards to the early settlements of the county and he provides no bibliography or footnotes.
The 1913 History of Northeast Missouri relies completely upon Violette and makes no mention of Hopkinsville or Long Point. They are not even mentioned in the ramblings of J.B. Bowcock in his 1925 pamphlet “A History of Kirksville”. Reviewing the archives held by the Rinehart News Agency (founded in 1861 in Kirksville) I can find nothing regarding Hopkinsville. If there are any sources other than Violette I would be more than happy to look at them. I once again point out that Violette lifted most of his material on early Adair County and Kirksville history from the 1888 Illustrated History of Adair, Sullivan, Putnam, and Schuyler Counties, Missouri . The Land where Kirksville now sits was unoccupied until 1840s, first being held by County for the County Seat of Justice with lots later sold to private individuals.
None of this is original research and hardly runs contrary to “the oldest authorities” as I am citing the oldest authority. (Galiel19:47 27 February 2007)

[edit] Origin of the name

gold star to David for the article from the Daily Express covering the folk legend about "Hopkinsville". Every community has stories about its early days; most of which turn out to be apocryphal in nature though fun in the telling. The same can be made about Long Point. Just because the modern boundaries of the city have annexed the site of other, now defunct, communities does not mean that the current community is founded upon those earlier settlement sites, just that they have been annexed into the city as the it’s boundaries have expanded. (Galiel16:17 26 March 2007)