Talk:Kirby Company

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[edit] Bad experiences

Kirby puts an ad in the newspaper that says "Customer Service Reps needed. Hire first come/first serve". I called the phone number and scheduled a same day interview, then got the job. I was told the job was demonstrating paint sprayers and assembling them. I returned the next morning for training, only to find out I'd be going door to door selling vacuums for over $1500. Why couldn't they just say that during the interview? It would have saved us both some time —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.177.94.83 (talk • contribs) 01:29, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

That's why this article exists. Watch out for Vector_Marketing, they do the same thing, only with knives. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.137.27.26 (talk • contribs) 03:26, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

yeah, demonstrating "spray painters" and assembling them is a bit over the top, but the sales model of the independent contractors selling kirby's (one of whom put that ad) is that they hire people to do demo's (which include showing the spraying nozzle - nonlatex paint only, please, if you're going to paint with it.) typically a van is run by fresh recruits doing demos for people (Kirby only sells in-home) and a salesman to try to close the customer after the demonstration. how many fresh recruits are running around assembling and demonstrating for each manager (salesperson, closer, maybe even in a suit) varies from operation to operation. turnaround is so high you're supposed to hire recruits every week. Also, what part of the country were you selling out at? In California it's more like a $2,000 system, but anyway after selling them for a while I bought mine on eBay. I'm not going to write in the main article, since I'm very very biased (no current connection) but then again I've never met a door-to-door knife operation or encyclopedia operation, which I've heard of -- but man would I love to sell either of those. A good demo and paying every week means the buyer (e.g. me) would actually read those volumes, not just rest content with, yeah, it's there (e.g. Wikipedia). same thing with knives, it's not so much about the knives (which I would love to be demo'd) or the food processer (as seen on TV!), it's about being walked through until at the end you're cookin'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.2.135.17 (talk • contribs) 14:56, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Same reason I would love to have a fresh recruit demo a Linux more premium than Red Hat for a couple of hours - maybe $700 is insane for it, when you can just download the ISO for free, but you know what? After all my objections have been addressed and I've been properly demo'd (even if the recruit thought they were going to be 'demoing virus protection by running it', which, like your "spray painter" assembly is pretty much flat-out lying) that $700 is nothing compared to the value that is mine after paying for it. But you know what the kicker is? We live in such a capitalist mindset that if you didn't pay $700 you wouldn't feel a nagging to justify the price point, and you might have burned a free ISO that is the same as what's being sold, but you might still limp along on an old version of excel because to you open office's spreadsheet program is pretty much in the same category as vi from 15 years ago -- if you're not SOLD on it, how would you know the VALUE? you wouldn't even try it.

84.2.135.17 14:56, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

I have been subjected to the "job" training of Kirby dealers. As such, an average work day can last more than 12 hours. For the week I worked as a Kirby dealer, I was subjected to hours of pointless teenage bantering as the driver of the van I was in took his time getting to our destination. It's basically a job for kids who want to hang out all day and work a little, while at the same time wasting other people's time who are in the van and want to get home as soon as possible. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.188.172.165 (talk • contribs) 22:05, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I've been through a similar ordeal, though I could be considered to be one of those teenagers. The starting pay is rather low and you really need to know how to sell the vacuum cleaner in order to make a decent amount of money (though it is possible to make a fortune so to speak). It seems that most Kirby dealers have a van system, but during my five weeks of work we didn't have such a system and used our own automobiles to transport the vacuum cleaner from house to house. Often times a seller would work alone, unless he or she is training a novice. --Thumbtax 00:23, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

A van? I worked a summer for Kirby Arlington Heights IL and we had nothing like that. Telemarketers would foil people into letting us into their homes. Then I would be handed a slip for an appointment on the other side of the Chicagoland area that was 15 minutes late already. Then I would have to drive like a maniac in my own car to get there, give a 2 hour sales presentation to someone that didn't really know about a presentation (lying and saying it would be about 30 minutes), and ignore all hints that the person wanted me out of their home. For example, if a person said that they couldn't afford such a machine or they were happier with what they had I was supposed to use a bunch of lines to respond to that, or call the office on the customer's telephone to make a deal or something. It was very cult like. The morning meetings would feature singing company songs and that, and the few times I tried to have lunch with fellow employees, they would quickly drift the conversations to the topic of how great Kirby is. But yeah, I used my own car and burnt all of my own gas, usually about 1 tank a day. I did get a weekly pay if I didn't sell anything, but it was barely enough to cover the gasoline, if that. Most weeks I wouldn't have been able to survive at all but for a the gasoline money I got from hitch hikers that I picked up. I came in for an honust summer job to pay off some minor credit card debts and save money for the coming school year, and ended up going into an even greater debt. I think that I stayed there for the entire summer for two reasons. First, I have a very strong sence of duty to anyone who employs me. Once I have comitted to a job I don't skip out when things get bad. Second, and in this case equally important, it is very difficult to find honust jobs for students who wanted to work only for a summer. Yeah. I would add to this article but I am very biased myself. I can say that I didn't have the luxary of a van taxing me around. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.175.223.49 (talk • contribs) 16:28, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Current logo

The current logo can be found here.

http://www.kirby.com/index2.shtml —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.188.172.165 (talk • contribs) 22:05, 4 June 2006 (UTC) kirby is willing to do what no one else will,put your money where your mouth is and build a better machine.Until then stop complaining about it being an ordeal!,thats just the losers excuse to give up.Grow a spine and take responsibility for your failure,or youll end up right where kirby told you you would.in a dead end job barely surviving till the day you die! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.72.10.204 (talk) 12:02, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Whitewashing

How did this article turn into an Advertisement for Kirby? Previous versions of the article provide more information and a more balanced view. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.149.81.4 (talk • contribs) 16:01, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Complaints? Give me a break!

The complaints section is incredibly biased. I am changing it back to a more balanced view immediately. -70.176.93.225 23:29, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nuts and Bolts

For all the whining on this page I got to add this: I bought an old Kirby Dual Sanitronic 80 at a junk shop for $15 about 5 years ago, and have been using it weekly since. All I have had to do is replace the brush roll belt, and change the carbon motor brushes. It is easy to use and has already lasted twice as long as any vacuum I have had before. I sure don't like what I've read about how Kirby sells their machines, but it seems they know how to build them well.-WK-139.78.96.87 (talk) 02:58, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Airflow indicator

"This part of the demonstration is typically the most impressive. However, the key to the Kirby's performance is that with the "Dirtmeter" attached to the Kirby instead of a bag, there is much less restricted airflow/back pressure which allows the Kirby to move nearly twice as much air. Once the customer attaches the Kirby bag the suction of the machine will be considerably less."

This section needs to be removed because of its complete falseness. The logic attempted here is simply lacking factual basis. The truth is that the Dirtmeter actually hinders the ability for the vacuum to successfully reach its peek potential. Vacuums use two things to remove dirt, airflow and suction. The airflow is significantly less with the Dirtmeter, rather than the bag. This is due to the surface area differences.

There exists a product on the market called an Airflow Indicator, that can be used to show how the Dirtmeter actually "steals" 1/3rd of the power that the same machine would have with the bag on. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.118.142.228 (talk • contribs) 02:52, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kirby vs Consumer Reports

its hilarious how kirbys and other expensive vacuums are compared to cheap plastic vacuums on consumer reports. for one, if anyones ever owned a kirby, or even seen a demonstration it is completely obvious they remove a suprisingly impressive amount more dirt. not to mention they'll last a lifetime. i worked at kirby for a little bit and you could vacuum with ANY vacuum over and over until you see their bagless vacuum picking up nothing else. go over with a kirby and pick up a mound of dirt.

not to mention the reference from the statement the kirby is equal to a 250$ vacuum is not even from the official consumer reports, but from a spinoff website that doesnt even compare products, but search for reviews by individuals on the internet. which is totally irrelevant for one, bad news travels faster than good news. people will come on the internet and complain and not come on and promote.

and FYI... according to the newest official consumer reports, kirby is ranked #7 overall, but every stat of the kirby is ranked better then EVERY OTHER VACUUM out there. the only reason its lower in the chart is because consumer reports dont take payment plans or the lifetime warranty into account.

[edit] This article is a waste of time

I came here for information on the company, its history, and information about my specific models of vacuum (I have a few older kirbys in various states of repair). This article needs some serious work... it upsets me that an article on a rather well known American company is almost entirely made up or criticisms, most of which are written horribly. I am not saying there aren't criticisms to be made, but wikipedia is NOT your blog to post how upset you are, it is an encyclopedia, and everything should be sourced and readily verifiable.

The picture caption for the second offer needs to be changed, since the third offer of 995 was not written that makes it un-verifiable doesn't it? So we keep the two pictures (they are very important to the criticisms section), but that caption must be changed.

The bottom line is there is no information at all about the company's history, and nothing about individual models. I will start to rectify that, and I am going to change the caption on that photo for starters. Matt 13:49, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Section Removed

Demonstration training outline This article needs additional references or sources for verification. Please help to improve this article by adding reliable references. Unverifiable material may be challenged and removed. This article has been tagged since July 2007. All salespersons are taught to hold demonstrations by following a script, which many memorize, particularly the "closing" section. Variation is allowed as long as the six "Musts" are done each demonstration:

Make friends/have fun, Pull 100+ dirt pads, Clean the Mattress, Complete the Vac-Kill test, Shampoo a 4x4 square of carpet, and complete the Contest Closing. The salespersons are told that if they follow this script exactly, their closing average will be 1 out of 3. The script is in no way exhaustive of what salespersons are taught in training.

The script as of 2007 is as follows, reprinted with minor typefont and grammar changes and with minor additions from trainings:

The Basics: Dress professionally, be prompt (5 min early if possible), treat people the way you want to be treated, humor- when they are laughing, they are buying (when emotions are high, ask to buy and always be closing), listen- they will tell you how to sell it, no distractions- take control by asking questions, involve everyone- even children, show enthusiasm, ask questions throughout the show to help the customer think and decide, think "positive"- they are going to buy the Kirby!

1. Front Talk and Warm Up: Make friends with your customer; appreciate/admire carpet and furniture; get out the old vacuum and vacuum with the old vacuum; qualify credit- Homeowner or Renter and Job Info (Say, "Why, what a beautiful home! How long have you owned the place? That's great! Do you work around here?"); Set up your Kirby Stage; Call manager to register show, ask for the contest desk!; Tell manager the situation- Homeowner or Renter and Job info; Explain your contest to the customer and ask them to think about it; Ask for Referrals; Start the Show; Ask "what do you know about a Kirby?"

2. History of Company Use your proof book

3. Power Plant Features v. Benefits 5 attachments to the front, 3 to the side, 2 handles

4. Portable Air Pump 5. Four Types of Cleaners Canister- Hose Type w/ power brush Hand portable/Mattress Cleaner Upright Carpet Shampooer Get all 4 types with Kirby Cleaner

Say, "Kirby gives you 4 ways and more to use it and all built around one single power plant. Which types do you have?" and "Kirby is made out of metal and its motor has a constant flow of clean, cool air to keep it cool, which brings its life expectancy to 45 years. How many vacuums would you have to buy in 45 years? How much would that cost you?"

6. Canister Hose Wands Elbow Surface Nozzle- pull 5-10 dirt pads Ceiling and Wall brush Crack and Crevice tool- 2 pads around edges Massaging cup Duster Brush Upholstery Tool 5-10 pads- clean one cushion (preferably the one they are sitting on) Zippbrush- 3-5 pads from the same cushion, explain use for pet hair, let customer use on furniture- 3-5 pads, clean one step- you pull 2 pads, they pull 3-5 Value building summary: (Now that you have the dirt out, it's time to get serious about building value) "If you had a Kirby and removed this dirt, how much longer do you think your furniture would last? When something lasts longer, it saves you money, right? So if you had a Kirby, you would keep this condition out of your furniture, right? So do you see why so many people invest in a Kirby?"

7. Deep Cleaning Hand Portable Intro 'Jaws' and vacuum Stairs- pull 10 pads from one step as you explain the 4 types of dirt (surface litter, dust- mixes with moisture to make a carpet look dirty, sand and grit (show with a coin on the dirt meter glass), organic matter (explain))

Mattress test: have at least 5 stories to tell while pulling a minimum of 10 black pads 7- years to fully saturate a mattress; 70- degrees needed for dust mites to thrive; D- dry throats D- digestive tract can handle dirt better than respiratory tract, T- think about it

Value building summary: "You wouldn't have to think twice about whether or not you wanted to remove this condition, would you? In fact, if you know this condition existed, you'd probably already be in the market to find something to improve it, wouldn't you? You could pay $2-$3 a day to remove this condition, couldn't you? You should have seen my mattress before I vacuumed it with a Kirby"

8. Upright Take off small handle and put on big handle; show how to adjust- pull 2 pads quick; show the tech drive and let them use; change pads for them and pull 15-20 pads; explain build up of dirt

2 pad test- prove that dirt causes damage Side by Side comparison test:

Lay a wand down in the middle of the room; 3 strokes at a time; pull 15-20 pads until clean!; customer use the old sweeper on the other side; last pad and put it next to the first pad. say, "For $2-3 per day, which condition would you rather have in your home? What if it was $2-3 per day for the rest of your life? For a lousy $2-3 per day, it's worth living in a clean home, isn't it? Has your old sweeper removed all the dirt it possibly can? If you found out that the old sweeper was leaving over 50% of the dirt and only removing 50% what would you do with that vacuum? THROW IT OUT!" (Pull a pad behind the old sweeper- match it up) Say, "no matter how much you vacuum with this vacuum, all this dirt will stay in your carpet, your home- FOREVER!" (shut up) "Obviously, this old sweeper is not doing the job you bought it to do, is it?" (shut up and wait for an answer) "Are you curious as to why this old sweeper left all this dirt in your home?" (Show old design. Suction test- use the power tester. Line loss test, bag and motor, filtration, fools test. Not designed to clean) "How can it clean if it has no suction? Can you see that it never will?" (Lay the old sweeper on its side and bury it with pads. YOU MUST PROVE THAT THE OLD SWEEPER DOES NOT WORK AT ALL AND NEVER WILL! DO A SALT TEST- IF NECESSARY).

Value building summary: "Carpet manufacturers tell us carpets will last 2 to 3 times longer if you keep this dirt out. That would save you a lot of money, wouldn't it? How much would it cost to replace just this room of carpeting? now I've said it doesnt cost money to have a Kirby but it does cost money to use this old sweeper. Do you see why?"

9. Carpet Shampoo System Prepare the 4x4 by vacuuming the dry dirt out (pull 20-25 pads). Tell the "White Towel" Story. Show the Consumer Testing Institute Report. Explain the Dri-Foam method. Pre-treat the 4x4 area before shampooing. Shampoo a perfect 4x4 area.

Value building summary: Show the cost of shampooing carpets. "How often do you shampoo? How much did it cost?" Remove the shampooer. Put 'jaws' and bag back on. Wipe down the machine. Assume the sale.

10. Display BEAUTIFULLY DISPLAY THE COMPLETE SYSTEM AROUND THE 4X4 Quick recap: "Let me show you everything you would be getting with your new Kirby." Do not throw away any dirt pads or clean the shampooer yet. Leave the old vacuum lying on its side-buried with dirt pads, 100+ dirt pads in full view (exceed their dirt tolerance), put Kirby in upright and show them how to install a disposable bag, the hose and attachments and the shampooer. Explain the 3 year "bumper to bumper" warranty and lifetime rebuild agreement. Ask, "By the way, and I'm not asking you to buy the Kirby, but if it were not more than $2-3 per day, which condition would you want in your home- clean like this?" (Point to the clean 4x4) "Or with all this dirt?" (Point to the dirt pads and the dirty carpet. Then shut up!) "For a lousy $2-3 per day it's worth living in a clean home, isn't it? (Shut up!)

11. Closing the Sale 10 year cost analysis: Say, "Before I finish up and get the rest of the carpets looking just like that, let me show you what it will cost if you decide NOT to get the Kirby today." Go through the 10 year cost analysis with th customer. Ask, "If it costs more to keep the dirt than it does to invest in a Kirby, which would you prefer- the dirt or the Kirby?" (Shut up)

Intro price: Say, "The Kirby is only $1758.50. That includes everything I have shown you here." (Point to the Kirby on display) "The upright, the deep cleaner for your mattresses, the canister hose with all the attachments and the Zippbrush, and the carpet shampoo system. It comes with a full three year warranty and a life time rebuilding plan. It is guaranteed to be the last cleaner you will ever have to buy. I'm sure you would agree that is a very fair price for all that equipment isn't it? Now, there are two ways you can own a Kirby system. There is Plan A, which is cash, check, credit card, or Plan B which is $558 plus the tax and $213 per month. Which plan, A or B, would be more convenient for you today?"

If the customer agrees to either A or B: Shake their hand and say, "Welcome to the Kirby family- whose name do you want the warranty card under?"

If the customer says neither: Say, "oh, OK!" Take back the price sheet and say, "So what you are saying is that you can't write me a check or if you had the cash we would have sucked it out of your mattress" HA HA!! Cross it off. "What about the $558 plus tax down today?" Cross it off. "How about the $213 per month?" Cross it off. "Well, this is just like baseball, three strikes and you're out. I guess I'm out. If you can't get it, you can't get it and I have no problem with that, but I do appreciate you looking at the Kirby." SHAKE HANDS!!! "I have to call my boss now so I get credit for the show. I will tell him the truth. I'm going to tell him that you like the Kirby and you want the Kirby. You see a need for the Kirby because the old vacuum failed miserably to get the dirt out of your home. And, you are definitely in the market for a machine that will get the dirt out of your home. But, you can't get one today because of the money. Is that right? Not because I did anything wrong, and nothing against the Kirby product. I will tell him the truth. Is that fair? Ok, so please give me a minute or two to call my boss. Just in case he wants to talk to you, please put in a good word for me. I would really appreciate that."

Get ready to call, then stop and say, "OK, I forgot to ask you one question before I call my boss. Look, I know you can't get the Kirby today, and I have no problem with that. But, if you decided you wanted to own one lets say...next week when you get paid. How much is too much on the $558.50 down payment? Is it $100, $200, $300, or $400 too much?"

Wait for a response. They will probably say $400 too much.

"Oh, OK, so what you are saying to me is if we came back next payday you could handle $--- down. Is that correct? Ok, as far as the montly payment of $213, I know it is too much to handle. Again, I have no problem with that. But if you decided you wanted to own the Kirby, let's say...in a month or two. How much short would you be on the $213 monthly payment? Is it $50, $100, or $150 too much?

Wait for a response. They will probably say $150 short on the monthly payment.

"Oh, OK, so what you are saying to me is that in a month or two, you could handle $--- a month. Am I correct? Great, thank you for being honest with me. I appreciate that."

NOW CALL THE BOSS FROM THEIR PHONE LINE.

ENTHUSIASTIC PHONE CLOSE: "Hi Mr.---, this is ----. I'm here at the --- home. I just got done showing them the Kirby, and they love it! (Tell us all the good things that happened!0 They would love to get one. They can see the old vacuum isn't doing the job. They like the --- the best. They told me they could handle $--- as a down payment next payday, and they could handle $--- monthly in a month or two. Is there anything special you can do because I want to win my contest? Can you help them?"

Beg! Plead! Act like you really do want to win the contest! Whatever the boss says to you, tell the customer EXACTLY! Whatever the customer says back to you needs to be communicated back to the boss. Don't leave anything out.

Assume they are buying! Say, "Let me show you how this looks on paper." Silence means consent. Don't wait for them to say, "Yes, I'll take it." Hand them a Purchaser's Statement and tell them to fill it out and then go to the table and write up the sales slip- pass it to them with a pen and say, "could you OK this for me please?"

If they fight you, then say "If I offered to clean your home for $2/day, would you hire me? I don't work that cheap, but the Kirby does." If sold then finish shampooing and Post Sell.

If they have objections: Isolate- the only thing stopping them is..., Use sales clinchers/logic to overcome objections: dirt-germs-save $

If you cannot close it here, back off, they may have unanswered questions: Put it back in the upright and vacuum 1/2 carpet-- 25 pads and shampoo 1/2 carpet. Call the manager and close again and do exactly what they tell you to do.

By following these simple rules, your closing average will be 1 out of 3.

12. Post Selling Show them how to shampoo, put it in the upright and install a disposable bag (pick a dry room. Never vacuum a damp carpet!), have your new customers practice putting on the power head and the hose (teach them how to use it. Take as much time as necessary), explain the tech-drive switch and height adjustments, clean the shampooer, clean down the power head and roller brush, and wipe down their Kirby. Thank your customer sincerely and congratulate them on a good decision. Shake hands (the handshake is important and positive. It assumes an agreement.) Gather empty Kirby box, trade-in, sales slip, contract/security agreement, warranty card, purchaser's statement, down payment, referrals, and demo kit. Put it all in your car to leave. Go back and give the customer a gift (like a starter kit) and thank them again for helping you with your contest.

TWO RULES OF SALES: 1. Always answer a question with a question. 2. When you ask for the order shut up. Use alternate of choice closes: Did you want the warranty in --- name or yours? Would you prefer a 3-pack or a 9-pack of bags with it? Did you want me to leave it in the upright or the canister? Should I put it in the closet or did you want to use it right away? Which monthly is most comfortable (show two payments on talking pad)? Use the basic four step close: Make an assumption. Get an agreement. Qualify. Close. (for example, use the alternate of choice close)

I entirely removed this section, as it seems to be verbatim from a Kirby sales manual. While it is interesting to know this information, it does not belong in wikipedia. Feel free to put it on your blog or personal website, it was interesting to read a bit from the inside. Matt 13:59, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Warranty

I changed parts of this section to bring the paragraph closer to the truth. However, I have to admit that I'm also a Kirby dealer, and not necessarily the best person to be keeping an NPOV on any part of this article. If someone could check what I have and suggest or make some changes, I wouldn't only understand, I'd totally appreciate it. Jklharris (talk) 09:12, 27 January 2008 (UTC)