Talk:Kinyarwanda

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Kinyarwanda article.
Please sign and date your posts by typing four tildes (~~~~). Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Ask questions, get answers. This is not a forum for general discussion about the article's subject.	Be polite Assume good faith No personal attacks Be welcoming	Article policies No original research Neutral point of view Verifiability

	This article is within the scope of the WikiProject Languages, an attempt at creating a standardized, informative, and easy-to-use resource about languages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.	language Portal
Start	This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality scale.

	Africa Portal This article is within the scope of the WikiProject Africa, which collaborates on articles related to Africa in Wikipedia. To participate, you can edit this article or visit the project page for more details.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the quality scale.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Democratic Republic of the Congo. See also The Democratic Republic of the Congo Portal.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Rwanda.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Uganda. See also the Uganda WikiPortal.
Assessment comments This article has not been rated for quality and/or importance yet. Please rate the article and then leave comments here to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the article.

This stub is on my to do list. I'm planning to add some demographic & linguistic data and (eventually) to conform it to the Wikiproject:Languages template. If you don't like what I do, just revert. Also, I'm not a native speaker of English, so don't hesitate to make me aware of any problems in style, vocabulary or grammar. strangeloop 19:42, 14 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Contents 1 Ba 2 Ethnic Divisions 3 Rwandan franc 4 "Genocide-related vocabulary"

[edit] Ba

Since Ba is a prefix meaning "people", and since the common means of referring to peoples outside of Bantu languages is to drop the Ba, wouldn't it make more sense to say Hutu, Tutsi, and Twa? I know that your way is more proper, but it's my impression that we're supposed to use what will be most commonly understood, not what is most technically direct, except when explaining what /is/ most technically correct...Kaz 17:08, 14 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I agree with this. The most common use of these terms in English is without the noun class prefix. — mark ✎ 07:23, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

"Kinya-" is meaning the same "ki-" in "kiswahili", isn't it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.173.119.57 (talk • contribs)

Yep, sort of. There is something about the 'nya' part though, because the closely related language of Burundi isn't called Kinyarundi but Kirundi. — mark ✎ 07:23, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

I believe that the '-nya-' might mean 'place of', as it does in 'Nyamata' ('place of milk'). Thus 'Kinyarwanda' could be translated as 'the language of the place of Rwanda'. Ionius Mundus 18:23, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Odd, the Kinyarwanda Wikipedia has "abatutsi", not "batutsi". Is the noun class prefix "aba" in Kinyarwanda, or "ba"? If it's the latter, is there an explanation for "aba"? --Saforrest 00:54, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

It is simple. A-ba- is the equivalent of an indefinite article, while ba- is the equivalent of a definite article. Abatutsi = Tutsis, Batutsi = The Tutsis --Ionius Mundus 01:38, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

I am a native speaker of Kinyarwanda.

1. Abatutsi refers to Tutsi people while Batutsi would be used when adressing directly an assembly of Tutsi people: Batutsi, mwiriwe? Hello, Tutsi people! A more likely example is Abanyarwanda (talking about Rwandans) vs Banyarwanda (calling out to Rwandans).

2. The “nya” of Nyamata, means "of". Not "place of". Nyamata means rich in milk, related to milk. Place of milk is "i Nyamata". The “i” indicates that we’re talking about a place. --Ruramaguru (talk) 21:33, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Ethnic Divisions

There is an ethnic division in Rwanda, regardless of the origins of this division. An ethnic group can be defined by many parameters. Imperial78

As can easily be seen in the article entitled 'Tutsi', there is large-scale debate over the ethnic nature of the so-called tribes. Ionius Mundus 18:09, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rwandan franc

Would it be Amafaranga Rwanda or Rwanda Amafaranga? Or a variation of either? Thankyou Enlil Ninlil 04:12, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

If you are trying to communicate in English, you'd use "Rwandan Franc." "Amafaranga y'Urwanda" is the Kinyarwanda equivalent.--RwandaTim 13:05, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Genocide-related vocabulary"

I find it horrible that a page dedicated to the beautiful Kinyarwanda language gets a section titled "genocide-related vocabulary". This speaks volumes about how far the current regime in Kigali has gone into political propaganda. It would have been more true to call it "RPF-propaganda vocabulary". For instance, "inyenzi" means cockroach and it also refers to -mostly tutsi- bush fighters from different guerilla groups, the latest of which being RPF Inkotanyi. Only RPF propagandists say that "inyenzi" refers to tutsi in general to make it look like hutus always hated tutsi, while the truth is that hutu always suffered atrocities by the hand of the successive "inyenzi" armies and therefore never liked them.Ruramaguru (talk) 23:28, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Another example, "indangamuntu" only means identity card. I don't see how this word is "genocide-related". Third Reich germany used trains to transport Jews to concentration camps. Does this make the word "train" a "genocide-related term?"Ruramaguru (talk) 23:36, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

An article on the Holocaust that contained a list of related German vocabulary could well include the German word "Ausweis," -- even though that too simply means "identity card" -- because a Jew's i.d. card took on a whole significance and symbolism under the Third Reich. Whether or not there was a J for "Jude" (Jew) on your i.d. card often meant the difference between life and death. My understanding is that back in 1994, the same was true of whether your Rwandan i.d. card identified you as a Hutu or a Tutsi. It is indeed horrible, and sad, that the page on Kinyarwanda includes a section on "genocide-related vocabulary." But unfortunately, for decades to come, many non-Rwandans who visit this page, and that on Rwanda, will be coming for background about 1994, and a few of the most common Kinyarwanda words are useful there. What one could consider is moving this list to the "Rwandan Genocide" article, and simply linking to it from here. UrsusMaximus (talk) 11:38, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a dictionary and is not a place for lists of vocabulary, whether "genocide-related" or not. --Ptcamn (talk) 12:26, 30 January 2008 (UTC)