Talk:Kingsway tramway subway

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Contents 1 Dates of closure 2 New Use 3 Single or double decker? 4 Fair use rationale for Image:TramEntering.jpg

[edit] Dates of closure

I noticed you´ve recently Corrected the LDO´s of the subway tram routes. May I ask where you get your info from?? I remember changing the dates earlier last year. My sources say 6th April 1952 was the LDO of the 33 & 35 and that the replacement bus routes FDO was 7th April 1952. May I suggest you are confusing the 5th July 1952, LDO of London Trams with 5th March 1952?? see [1] &[2]. IsarSteve 16:20, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)

(I've moved discussion here so that it doesn't come up again later!). I rewrote the whole article last year, using the booklet London's Tramway Subway (which I bought in 1985 - original publication, I believe, was mid-70s) for much of the source material. The relevant section is on page 11 of that booklet:

Finally, on Saturday 5th April, 1952, trams ran through the Subway for the last time; tram service 35 (Forest Hill - Highgate) was replaced next day by bus service 172, and tram service 33 (West Norwood - Manor House) was replaced by bus service 171, West Norwood - Tottenham (Bruce Grove). The last car to carry passengers through the Subway in service was E/3 No. 185, some time after midnight, and in the early hours of the following morning the remaining cars from Holloway depot were driven south through the Subway to new homes of the scrapyard.

The tracks remained unaltered, though disused, until the final abandonment of London's tramways on 5th July, 1952, after which ...

There is also the issue that last services on LT nearly always run on Fridays or Saturdays and new services start on Mondays, hence why your sources shows the 7th (Monday). --Vamp:Willow 16:54, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I checked out the starting date of the replacement 171s & 172s on a Route Change leaflet in my collection. Of course the 6th April 1952 was correct! Regarding London Transport tram and bus route changes, these historically took effect on a Wednesday, due to the fact that the London bus and tram crew´s working week also began on a Wednesday. This system was inherited from the LGOC London General Bus Company in 1933 and remained this way until January 1965, when the start of the working week was altered to a Saturday (start of five-day, 40 hour working week) and so it has remained ever since. This said, some but not all of the Post Second World War tram to bus conversions took effect on Saturday/Sundays, but I´m not sure of the reason for this. IsarSteve 16:26, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] New Use

This will be used as part of the Cross River Tram system won't it? If so, it needs to be referred to. 81.178.107.120 12:52, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Apparently not [3]:

"The well-known underpass which carries northbound traffic from Waterloo Bridge directly to Kingsway used to be a tram tunnel. It is therefore important to note that this tunnel would not be used for CRT. Instead, trams would travel over Lancaster Place."

Nick Cooper 19:18, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

The south end has now become a large bar & restaurant (Buddha Bar), with extensive construction work - which rules out connection between the tunnel and the embankment - [4]

"Westminster City Council has sold the leasehold of the site – which includes a former tram tunnel that links into the Strand underpass – to Buddha-bar following the submission of a planning application for the development. The new bar at 8-10 Victoria Embankment, on the north side of the Thames, will be close to the Savoy hotel and has been in the planning process for more than 10 years."

Curran2 (talk) 12:35, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Single or double decker?

The page says they decided to design the subway only for single decker vehicles, but the old photograph definitely looks like a double decker to me; is it about to crash, a miscellaneous photo or is the text wrong? Artybrad 10:59, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

The text is wrong. It always was built and used for double-deckers. Bluegoblin7 19:16, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

It was originally built for single deckers but, as the text says, it was rebuilt for double deckers in 1930-1931 by lowering the floor of the tunnel. If you click on the two external links from London's Transport Museum photographic archive you will see pictures of the tunnel in use by single decker trams. --DavidCane 19:31, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes! My bad - I had forgotten to read the article, and was going on about stuff I already (or thought) knew! This article needs a clean-up I think, to stop it from happening again. I will undertake it as part of WP:UK Trams Bluegoblin7 19:53, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:TramEntering.jpg

Image:TramEntering.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 02:43, 12 February 2008 (UTC)