Talk:King Caesar

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"King Seesar (キングシーサー) or King Shisa(most commonly and inaccurately known among fans as "King Caesar" due to the similarity to the name of famed ruler Julius Caeser)"

Hardy-har-har. No, actually. King Seesar is known among fans as "King Caesar" because that's Toho's official English spelling. The Official Godzilla Compendium, the DVD case of Godzilla: Final Wars, they both use "Caesar" as the spelling (as does the film's ending credits).

I would not give any credence whatsoever to Tri-Star's dumbed-down subtitles, which are verbatim to their dubbing. If the character is a Shisa, then he is obviously King Shisa and not King Caesar. --Scottandrewhutchins 04:02, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
I (yes, that was me) didn't say anything about TriStar's subtitles (which, yes, can be atrocious), I said the film's END CREDITS. Those are done by Toho, not TriStar (neither is the dubbing, for that matter). "Caesar" is also used, like I said, in the Official Godzilla Compendium, which was published long before TriStar released either Final Wars or Mechagodzilla '74 on DVD. Hell, it was published before Godzilla 2000 was even filmed. -- MegaZeo

I agree. Shisa is more accurate to the mythology behind the character and sounds somewhat better anyway. 1 vote for Shisa.

Get it to your thick skull, people call him Caesar, not the stupid Shisa name. Your the only person who call him Shisa. I warned you once to knock it off with the Shisa crap or I'd have a administrator block you. Deal with Caesar, Shisa is a crappy name and no one calls him Shisa except geeky nerds who act like immature little children like you're acting Scottandrewhutchins. "Prove it", there are things that prove his name his Caesar, like Toho Kingdom and numerous sites. So stop with the Shisa crap! No one likes the dumb name. --Naruto134 00:00, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
The fifteen year-old fanboy with no understanding of Japanese is the only one who would called the name Shisa "stupid" or "crappy". "Caesar" is a ludicrous name for the character, considering he is a Shisa, which is clearly how his name is pronounced in the song. Toho Kingdom is a fan site and proves nothing. Also, Caesar in Japanese is spelled "カエサル", not "シーサー". [1] Also, one of your reverts was to "King Ceasar" [sic], which also impacts your credibility in this situation. --Scottandrewhutchins 20:27, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
"Caesar" is a ludicrous name for the character Yeah? And Invasion of Astro-Monster is a ludicrous title for Monster Zero, but guess what? That's what the upcoming DVD is titled (check [[2]] if you don't believe me). Or is Toho wrong about their own creation again? Shisa, which is clearly how his name is pronounced in the song. And Mothra's name is clearly pronounced "Mosura" in her song. What's your point? This isn't about preference, because honestly, I prefer the "Seesar" spelling. I mean, short of having a meeting with some Toho representative, I don't know what you want/need to be convinced it's "Caesar." Or are you saying that Toho is stupid/ludicrous/whatever for naming him that? -- MegaZeo
I'm not convinced it's not some hack copywriter writing the back covers of DVDS that is coming up with these spellings. As for Invasion of Astro-Monster, yes it's a stupid title, and not a translation of the Japanese title at all, but at least that's what it says on the Japanese VHS tape from c. 1995. I'm not sure these other names have a history pre-TriStar. --Scottandrewhutchins 14:36, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
I guess you missed what I wrote above, so I'll repost it for you: "I didn't say anything about TriStar's subtitles (which, yes, can be atrocious), I said the film's END CREDITS. Those are done by Toho, not TriStar (neither is the dubbing, for that matter). "Caesar" is also used, like I said, in the Official Godzilla Compendium, which was published long before TriStar released either Final Wars or Mechagodzilla '74 on DVD. Hell, it was published before Godzilla 2000 was even filmed." -- MegaZeo
See? Not everyone calls him Shisa. So enough with the Shisa its getting old now. Turn the page's name back. --Naruto134 00:00, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps if J.D. Lees says I should. --Scottandrewhutchins 04:30, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

His [word not allowed] name is King Caeser. EVERY SINGLE TRUE GODZILLA FAN CALLS HIM KING CAESER! Oh, wow he looks like Shisa or whatever the hell. That's like saying Godzilla's article should be 'Giant Lizard' becauses he looks like a Giant Lizard. --JohnVMaster 00:01, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Bull. I haven't seen that spelling EVER used pre-Internet, indeed, I've never seen that spelling pre-TriStar's issues of the new series. The most common spelling I have seen is Seesar, but that doedn't make it any more correct than Caesar, which you're not even spelling correctly. It's not like calling Godzilla "giant lizard". It's like calling Godzilla "Gojira" (which is the pronunciation used by the guys in the helicopter in King Kong vs. Godzilla in the undubbed version), and in this case the "Caesar" spelling seems to significantly postdate the original film, as though you are deciding "Gigantis" is the correct name for Godzilla, or "Monster X" is the correct name for Jiger. --Scottandrewhutchins 14:39, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Image:Caesar_Logo.jpg

<----- There ya go. King CAESAR's official character logo, complete with trademark. There's your proof- the monster's official name is King Caesar. Doesn't matter what they used to call him, or what the Japanese call him, this is the English wikipedia- what his english name is now, according to the company that created him, is the name we use. Now can we quit it with this stupid edit war?

K00bine 00:03, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, seriously. It's getting everyone annoyed. --Naruto134 00:00, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.


King Caesar → King Shisa — I have seen nothing official with the Caesar spelling that existed before 2000, while the character was introduced in 1974. The name appears to be a retcon by an anonymous copywriter. Scottandrewhutchins 18:34, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Survey

Add  # '''Support'''  or  # '''Oppose'''  on a new line in the appropriate section followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~. Please remember that this survey is not a vote, and please provide an explanation for your recommendation.

[edit] Survey - in support of the move

  1. Support Unlike Anguirus, the name appears to have been retroactively assigned. --Scottandrewhutchins 13:59, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
  2. Support — "King Shisa" sounds right, because it uses Japanese romanization, and the monster looks like a Shisa too. By contrast, "Caesar" means emperor in Latin so "King Caesar" means "King Emperor", which is a ridiculous name.--Endroit 17:39, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
  3. Support - Per above. John Smith's 17:50, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
  4. Support - Per above. Dark hyena 20:19, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
  5. Support - If it was intended to reference Caesar, it would be 「キングシーザー」not「キングシーサー」. LordAmeth 10:09, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Survey - in opposition to the move

  1. Opposed Doesn't matter if it's a retcon or not, since "King Caesar" is trademarked, that's officially the character's name. Furthermore, this is the english wikipedia and the character's name has been "King Caesar" outside of Japan since 1974. Ergo, we leave it as is. Please. WHY is this even an issue? K00bine 02:23, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
  2. Oppose - This is the english Wikipedia and here he's called Caesar. There are numerous sites that call him King Caesar. Enough with this Shisa war. It's been going on for one or two months now. Naruto134 13:07 , 5 May 2007 (UTC)
  3. Weak oppose. We should be making descriptive, not prescriptive, judgments here. It's clear that Shisa is a more correct transliteration/interpretation of the Japanese name, but it's not clear to me that the accuracy of the transliteration should be the thing we use to name the article. Dekimasuよ! 07:02, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
    The "Caesar" spelling has major WP:V problems, because they seem to be used only advocated primarily in fansites such as Tohokingdom.com (とほ) which are totally unrelated to Toho (東宝).--Endroit 10:20, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
    Obviously I don't agree with the tone of some of the discussion here, but assuming Toho really trademarked the name, it's not just fansite-based. Dekimasuよ! 03:48, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
    I'm finding a lot of "hear-say" on the web, although nothing official. And one of them is that Toho has trademarked BOTH "King Seesar" and "King Caesar". (For example, I'm reading that Bandai has used "King Seesar" for its action figure, and is therefore trademarked.) If there are TWO trademarked names, you can't just pick one and say that it's the only English name. Plus IMDB uses "King Shisa" as I have cited below.--Endroit 06:43, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

Add any additional comments:

Please show some proof that the character has been known as King Caesar since 1974. --Scottandrewhutchins 12:18, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Give it up. No one is on your side so drop this King Shisa name. It's annoying everyone, your ignoring the proof everyone is showing you, your being a stubborn little kid, and this is really getting old, so just drop it already. And let me guess, your going tattle on me because I said no one is going on your side and I told you to deal with the name King Caesar. That's something a six year old whould do. --Naruto134 00:00, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
I count four people on my side and one person on yours. You're obviously not any better at math than you are at etymology or spelling. You told me the deal, but that doens't amke it true. You supplied evidence that the name currently stands on the DVD, but when I asked you for something of the film's vintage, you insulted me. That is what a six year-old "whould" do.--Scottandrewhutchins 13:38, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
That's because they're idiots. --Naruto134 00:00, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
^Flagrant violation of WP:Civility. Apparently your definition of "idiot" is someone who disagrees with a 15-year-old kid like you. --Scottandrewhutchins 14:24, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

IMDB calls it King Shisa:

--Endroit 08:05, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

And Naruto, I did not write them. --Scottandrewhutchins 13:53, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Ah hello? Those are the trivias to the japanese versions of the movies. Isn't obvious? Give it up. Don't you realize your annoying everyone? Quit being a little child and trying to revert this page to the japanese name. Same goes to Kamoebas and Kamacuras. --Naruto134 9:54, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
The only one being childish is you.--Scottandrewhutchins 14:13, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
Yeah right! How am I being childish? Oh yeah, that's what I thought. Your just saying because your having a temper because King Caesar won't be changed to Shisa. When someone says that your being childish and you say the same to them, now that is being childish. Now end this discussion. --Naruto134 00:00, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
You are constantly spewing insults and violating WP:Civility. I am simply stating my case and having to deal with nonsense from you.--Scottandrewhutchins 14:08, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Copyright info

Although I don't know how reliable this source is, here's an excerpt from （無理矢理）怪獣学の部屋, by HANNYADOU (般若堂), showing the list of copyrights for Godzilla-related kaiju names:

  1. King Kong is a trademark of Universal Studios.
  2. Alien[s] from Nebula Space Hunter M (or Space Hunter M Alien[s]), Alien[s] from the Third Planet in the Black Hole (or Black Hole Alien[s]), Anguirus (or Angilas), Baby Godzilla, Baragon, Battra, Biollante, Dagahra (or Dagarah), Death Ghidorah, Destroyah, Dogora, Ebirah, Fairy Mothra, Fire Rodan, Gabara, Gaila (or Gaira or Green Gargantua), Ganime, Gezora, Gigan, Godzilla, Godzillasaurus, Gorosaurus, Hedorah, Jet Jaguar, Kaiser Ghidorah, Kamakiras (or Kamacuras or Gimantis), Kameba, Kilaak[s], King Ghidorah (or King Ghidrah, or Ghidrah, or Ghidorah, or Ghidora), King Seesar (or King Caesar), Kumonga (or Spiga), Little Godzilla, Magma, Manda, Matango, Megalon, Millennian, Minilla, Monster X, Mothra (of all forms), Orga (or Oruga), Rodan, Sanda (or Brown Gargantua), SpaceGodzilla, Varan, Xilians (or Xiliens), Zilla - are trademarks of Toho Co., Ltd. (Titanosaurus is a correct name of a dinosaur genus, and not to be treated as a trademark of Toho Co., Ltd.)
  3. Barugon, Gamera, Guiron, Gyaos, Irys (or Iris), Jiger, Legion, Space Gyaos, Viras & Zigra - are trademarks of Kadokawa Pictures, Inc. (former Kadokawa-Daiei Co., Ltd.).
  4. Gappa is a trademark of Nikkatsu Corporation.
  5. Guilala is a trademark of Shochiku Co., Ltd.
  6. Gavora, Magla, Nelonga & Pagos - are trademarks of Tsuburaya Prod.

Please note that "King Seesar (or King Caesar)" is listed here as the trademark(s) of Toho.--Endroit 09:57, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it be moved. But, wouldn't you know, the history's somewhere else, so it looks like I'm going to be moving pages anyway. Given that, and given that until the page was moved from "King Caesar" the first time, there weren't any move wars, it's going back there, and anyone who wants it changed can try to find consensus for changing it. Our naming conventions do not concern themselves too much with which is the most correct transliteration, or when names came into fashion. It's an absurd name, but "King Caesar" is more common than "King Shisa", and there it will stay. --Stemonitis 17:16, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Theme Song

I erased this: "The theme song for King Caesar, "Kingu Shisa", has a tune very simalar to "Chim Chim Cher-ee" from Mary Poppins. However, Disney fiercely protects it's copyrighted subjects, making the last statement questionable." First because it's not relevant, but also because it doesn't sound at all like the Mary Poppins song (or not enough to be a problem) and because of "last statement questionable". Why do we need to make these kind of things up ? - Cyrus 13:18, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:KingCaesar Unleashed.jpg

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BetacommandBot 10:03, 7 November 2007 (UTC)