Talk:Kimbo Slice

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

↓    Skip to table of contents    ↓

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Kimbo Slice article.
Article policies
Archives: 1
This article is within the scope of the following WikiProjects:
Articles for deletion This article was nominated for deletion on 26 February 2006. The result of the discussion was keep.
Articles for deletion This article was nominated for deletion on 2 March 2007. The result of the discussion was keep.
Archive
Archives


Contents

[edit] PRISON======

KIMBO DID SERVE A PRISION TERM IN FLORIDA —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.34.56.132 (talk) 23:30, 3 June 2008 (UTC)



[edit] University of Miami

I haven't ever seen a source supporting that he had an academic scholarship to the U. Why is this information still included in the article? --Justinmhill (talk) 21:32, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

the way that he was gay whole sentence is phrased is confusing. The two points made do not relate to each other. Either it was an athletic scholarship, or it needs to be phrased better —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.13.240.36 (talk) 20:59, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

ESPN the Magazine this week has an article contradicting the U of Miami rumor, which also renders the current source highly suspect. --216.9.250.104 (talk) 21:22, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Source [2] is a bad link. Also, in the interview that used to be posted there, Kimbo never said he received an academic scholarship. He said he went to U of Miami, but he never said he had an academic scholarship. PLEASE CORRECT THIS OR UNLOCK THE PAGE SO I CAN. Justinmhill (talk) 12:33, 1 June 2008 (UTC)


He actually went to Bethune Cookman and he flunked out.--Franknskank (talk) 00:39, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] German Site

There is a German Wiki-Site for Kimbo. I cant link it with that one due to it´s protection. Could someone add de:Kimbo Slice to this article? thx —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.7.219.194 (talk) 00:04, 12 March 2008 (UTC) IF KIMBO WOULD FIGHT SOMEONE IN THE UFC HE WOULD GET HIS ASS BEAT

I have provided a credible source stating it is an exhibition match. The NJSAC approved the fight partially and required it to be an exhibition, so it does not count. Unless you can come up with something that states otherwise (that is credible) then stop changing it from an exhibition Thesaddestday 20:53, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

This is rather confusing. Does an exhibition match count towards an MMA record? In the past it has counted before, particularly in the case of TUF. Now then in the case of Kimbo, Sherdog is recognizing his victory as part of his MMA record. http://www.sherdog.com/fightfinder/fightfinder.asp?FighterID=22388 I really wish CFFC kept records for their fighters on their website but sadly they do not, and if they consider it a win on his record then so should we. I am going to look into inquiring with CFFC on this matter. UnknownToaster 02:32, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

TUF fights do not count as pro bouts because they are exhibition. The only people that will count them are the UFC and sometimes the fighters because it will pad their stats. I e-mailed Sherdog about it and Rob's reply was along the lines of "full rules and he got paid... pro mma". The reality is it was an exhibition bout. Contact the NJSAC and they will tell you the same thing, they sanctioned it as an exhibition. Keep in mind the word sanctioned does not mean pro. A pro fight can happen unsanctioned, just as well as an amateur fight can happen sanctioned. In this case it was a sanctioned exhibition match where they allowed full rules. It should also be noted Sherdog are not the be-all-end-all authority when it comes to records, though they are fairly reliable because they keep a running history of fights (meaning they can show who fought who, when and where). In this case they are making their own call despite the fact the NJSAC didn't sanction it as a pro fight. Thesaddestday 03:47, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
Neither is the NJSAC's official regulations the end-all be-all on what constitutes a legit pro MMA fight, despite the fact that they've firmly established themselves as the America's #1 Meddlesome Athletic Commission.--Halloween jack 17:30, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
Considering it fell under the NJSAC's jurisdiction it is up to them. They only sanctioned and allowed the fight as an exhibition. I explained the situation above and I provided a few links showing you guys. Thesaddestday 20:49, 4 July 2007 (UTC)

What is the "credible" source then? MMAfan2007 18:39, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

http://www.fcfighter.com/news/Mar%202007 Thesaddestday 19:58, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
I agree with Thesaddestday. I figured because he was headlining the event, it was sanctioned and he got paid, that made it automatically Pro, but if it was exibition only according to the NJSAC, he shouldn't have a Pro MMA record yet, it would simply be false. -- cowwithbeans 21:55, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Um...that isn't "credible" nor does it even state that it was an exhibition. Go on cage fury's message board, the staff even spoke with the NJSAC and said that was not an exhibition. MMAfan2007 18:26, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Actually FC Fighter is a credible source and if you read the article it clearly says exhibition. Here is another credible source http://mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=4196&zoneid=1 Thesaddestday 21:44, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
Here is a third source- http://www.thefightnetwork.com/news_detail.php?nid=4154 Thesaddestday 01:32, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Rw4GSRSVYA - The commentator says kimbo 1-0.

They do indeed say 1-0 hmmmUnknownToaster 23:33, 4 July 2007 (UTC)
The NJSAC made the decision so what the commentator said is irrelevant. Thesaddestday 00:02, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
random info: CFFC 5 ring announcer says Kimbo is "making his octa...cage debut" and does not cite a fighting record

You're missing the whole point. You don't have a DOCUMENT(.pdf format) from the NJSAC that says it's an exhibition. All these sites you listed are the same sites that post up rumors and such. By default, Kimbo is 1-0 until you can provide the exact FACTUAL document that says otherwise. MMAfan2007 17:57, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Actual I have posted multiple reliable sources that state it is an exhibition and there is nothing from anyone else to counter that. It is fair to say the burden of proof is no longer on me. Thesaddestday 21:14, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
You don't need a document from the NJSAC. That is considered a primary source. News reports saying the bout was an exhibition are secondary sources. Both are permissible by WP:RS and WP:V to establish if this one fight was an exhibition or not. And if you really need to see official results from the NJSAC, look here hateless 21:37, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

It may say exhibition but he won so he should be 1 and 0 he won a MIXED MARTIAL ARTS MATCH and the thing says MMA record.

That is not how it works though... he won an exhibition, not an actual pro fight. We don't count exhibition matches or amateur fights. Thesaddestday 10:31, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

That isn't how it works. You need to provide the actual .pdf document. Any website can say anything they want, it doesn't make it credible. The actual document from the NJSAC is credible, not some site YOU THINK is credible. MMAfan2007 22:52, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

OK we get it, you're a Kimbo nuthugger, but give it a rest. I don't know where you get the idea how things work around here considering you've been making contributions since June 27, 2007 but you cannot arbitrarily dictate how Wikipedia works. If you want I can give you the NJSAC's number and tell you who to ask for and he will tell you it was an exhibition bout. I notice you made repeatedly stubborn edits to the Hidden Palms page and were demanding admin approval before your edits were reverted. Now you continue to be stubborn regarding Kimbo's page. Cut it out, it's getting old. You don't run Wiki so stop trying to get your way. Thesaddestday 23:05, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
First, I'd like to remind everyone to keep WP:CIVIL and WP:AGF in mind. Thesaddestday has provided multiple reliable sources including The Fight Network and Full Contact Fighter magazine that say that the match against Mercer was an exhibition. As the threshold for inclusion is verifiability, not truth, I'll take his side in this content dispute. east.718 23:36, 9 July 2007 (UTC)
Sorry to MMAfan2007, the community, and everyone else coming here for the unnecessary comments I made. Thesaddestday 23:46, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

That is your opinion that the sites are credible. MMAfan2007 23:17, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure why you insist on arguing over this so much, but stop changing his record.Thesaddestday 03:31, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

That is your opinion that the sites are credible. :) MMAfan2007 21:47, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

You're not in discussion with good faith, MMAfan2007. If everyone disagrees with you, don't be an obstructionist, and don't put unwarranted vandalism notices on people you simply disagree with. like you did with Thesaddestday. hateless 19:35, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
MMAfan2007 is definitely not editing in good faith, and has put vandalism warnings on my page (when I hadn't made any edits at all) simply as a retaliation for my vandalism warning on his. If he keeps up this behaviour, we should get him blocked. Hopefully he will stop on his own good will. --Mista-X 20:58, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

The fact of the matter is, is that if wikipedia is supposed to be reliable then what makes a website reliable? I could make a website and say "Kimbo's fight doesn't count." Does it make it credible? MMAfan2007 21:59, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

To answer that question specifically visit WP:RS. It explains it perfectly. Thesaddestday 00:24, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

"Reliable sources are authors or publications regarded as trustworthy or authoritative in relation to the subject at hand."

So basically it's our OPINION on what is credible. LOL what a joke. MMAfan2007 20:11, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

At least we are providing sources. Thesaddestday 00:53, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Sherdog.com http://www.sherdog.com/fightfinder/fightfinder.asp?FighterID=22388 His fight recored 1-0 Sherdog DOES NOT count exhibition matches. His record is 1-0. deal with it

In this case they did. They rationalized it as "full rules and he was paid- pro fight". But that is not the case. Thesaddestday 06:25, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Why the match should be counted

Ok, here is my take on things from everything I have heard from multiple credible sources: The Kimbo Slice vs. Ray Mercer fight was originally intended to be an exhibition fight by the New Jersey State Athletic Commission, but they decided to sanction the fight soon before it took place. That is the reason you see conflicting stories, some calling it an exhibition, and some saying it was sanctioned. (not "sanctioned exhibition" or any other thing, but indeed a fully sanctioned match) I even know someone personally who spoke to Nick Lembo firsthand at the weigh ins and asked him directly if it was going to be sanctioned, and he stated that yes it would. (yes I realize this is not a "credible" source since it is just me saying it, but Lembo has said similar things other places) So, in other words, it was indeed a sanctioned fight when the actual fight took place, and therefore needs to be reflected as such in the record, in my opinion. Here are the links to back up my assertion:

  • [1] Relevant part: "White openly bashed the New Jersey State Athletic Commission for deciding to sanction the upcoming June bout between underground fighting legend Kimbo Slice and former heavyweight champion Ray Mercer." (this coming from a UFC guy, which is the competition making it that much more credible.)
  • [2] Relevant part: "Nick Lembo, council to the New Jersey State Athletic Control Board, asked himself the question out loud at this week's news conference: Why is this sanctioned?"
  • [3] Relevant part: "On June 23rd, one time WBO Heavyweight Champion Ray Mercer will drive myriad nails into the coffin of his remaining boxing career, when he takes on celebrated street fighter Kevin Ferguson in a 3 round MMA rules exhibition bout. Trump Entertainment Resorts is presenting this PPV “contest” in Atlantic City’s Boardwalk Hall as the main event of Cage Fury Fighting Championship 5, and the match (dubbed “Two Worlds – One Cage”) is sanctioned under New Jersey’s unified MMA rules."
  • [4] Sherdog.com lists his record as 1-0. I don't know of any other "credible" sites that keep track of MMA records. (there are plenty that do boxing, but not MMA)

I actually do not like Kimbo and think he will get beaten (probably badly) if and when he runs into anyone with any real MMA talent, but fair is fair, and this fight should count on his record. I will not make the edit to the page again, because you crazy fight fans scare me, but I thought I would throw in my take on it. Keep it classy guys. (Cardsplayer4life 14:02, 15 August 2007 (UTC))

Your entire argument hinges on the point that a sanctioned bout is mutually exclusive with an exhibition one, which is not true. east.718 at 14:43, August 15, 2007
Hmm, no actually it doesn't. It hinges on the fact that when the term is used exclusively by itself (as I stated clearly in the above, not "sactioned exhibition" or anything like that, which should have made it clear) that it means non-exhibition as well as the fact that I have not seen anyone who reports "official" records report anything other than 1-0. As well as the whole bit about Nick Lembo saying in several places that it was in fact sanctioned, and no longer an exhibition. Of course, I am willing to be convinced, I just haven't seen any evidence to the contrary yet. That is all I am saying. (Cardsplayer4life 20:43, 15 August 2007 (UTC))
Cardsplayer4life, you are entirely incorrect in your assumption about what is going on. In the state of New Jersey ALL MMA fights (amateur, exhibition, and pro) are sanctioned. That is one of the few states where you can't just do whatever you want running shows (thank god) and the commission regulates it heavily. Of course the fight was sanctioned, it had to be to take place there. Thesaddestday 23:53, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
Any links to back that up? I am not trying to be mean or anything, but I'd like to see some proof of that. (even though that was just one strain of my argument) Like I said, I am always open to new data, but I need something concrete to look at besides just a person's opinion. (again, not questioning you personally, its just anyone can say anything so I need some linky's) I am always willing to change my mind. Also, to strengthen the argument overall, it would be helpful to find a site which did "offical" MMA records which contradicted the sherdog one. (since sherdog carries a lot of weight as far as MMA is concerned) Also, anything showing Nick Lembo saying it was an exhibition would be the nail in the coffin for me, personally. (just trying to help you guys out) (Cardsplayer4life 01:38, 16 August 2007 (UTC))
All fights aren't sanctioned, it's just that no major promoter would have the gall to run an unsanctioned event, since that would lead to the NJSACB revoking their license. Since the state athletic commissions generally respect each other's rulings on sanctioning of promoters and fighters, that would lead to ruin for that promoter in the US (ostensibly, the CSAC is all over FEG Korea right now but that's a different issue altogether). One of the few occurances I found was this, where Michigan's department of labor shut down a promoter for running unlicensed events.
That's neither here nor there though, since multiple reliable sources [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] have stated that this fight was an exhibition. Also, see here and here for some context.
Also, Sherdog's fight database is incomplete in many places, I usually cross-reference it with Full Contact Fighter's database (which tracks amateur fights) and interviews to get a real record. east.718 at 02:45, August 16, 2007
Aaah, you are right. I found Kimbo in their database, and it does say that his amateur record is 1-0, and the note beside that fight says exhibition. Ok, color me convinced. Are amateur records ever listed on wikipedia for fighters? If so, that might be an appropriate thing to do here. (Cardsplayer4life 16:40, 16 August 2007 (UTC))
Like I said, check out the talk archives of WP:MMA, the consensus so far has been to exclude them because of verifiability issues—for example, Houston Alexander has over 200 unsanctioned fights, but there is no record of this. You're welcome to start a new discussion though. east.718 at 19:20, August 16, 2007

Of course this carries no weight because it is "original research", but I am a member of the MMA media (and no, none of the sources about Mercer/Slice being exhibition are from where I work). I've actually talked to the NJSAC (which any of you can do via phone or e-mail) about the bout. Furthermore, Sherdog's idea is "full rules and he got paid- pro MMA", which is not really the case. There are exhibition boxing matches that don't count but both guys get paid well and fight with full rules. If you want to have peace of mind for yourself over the issue you can find a lot of useful information at SAC websites (unfortunately NJ's is less easy to navigate then NV's). Thesaddestday 06:48, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Genius

Why can't you guys just compromise somehow and list an official record with an asterisk or sidenote that he has one (1) win in a Professional Exhibition match? Just a suggestion.G0dsweed 14:48, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

G0dsweed has made the most sensible suggestion yet, unless I hear objections next time I see his change i'll be WP:BOLD --Nate1481( t/c) 10:25, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
It's because project guidelines and common sense dictate not to list non-professional bouts.  east.718 at 17:44, August 21, 2007 

Project guidelines are just that--guides, not rules or hard fast laws. This debate has been going on now for 2 months without any resolution. I think (and we need to have more people's input here) that what I have suggested would stop all this back and forth. Also, unless Wikipedia has started to not even use its own definitions of things (see Professional#Sport ), this bout makes Kimbo a professional, and this match a Professional Exhibition. I think most of us know that exhibition matches do not qualify as official records, but at least if we put up the info the way I have suggested (or something similar) that may stop every Tom, Dick and Harry from coming by and changing the page without consulting this looooong debate people have been having. G0dsweed 18:31, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

I am entirely opposed to doing that. It was not a professional fight so don't list it in his record. The mention of his sanctioned debut enough. Thesaddestday 00:18, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
It was a regulated fight he took part in so deserves a mention, if can be sourced it should be mentioned. Not saying that the record dose not include the fight if a bad idea as it leaves it ambiguous, note the suggestion was not to include it but just to acknowledge it. p.s. why are you so adamant on this? --Nate1481( t/c) 08:26, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
Because it was an exhibition fight, not a pro fight. There is a difference. Like I said, mention of the fight in the article is enough, but adding the number in there is misleading. Thesaddestday 09:55, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

This is so trivial and yet we have been debating it for months--the purpose of my suggestion was to curtail the persistent changing and revising that has resulted from the old way of doing it. --thesaddestday: if how you wanted it done was sufficient then perhaps the casual user would have stopped long ago from modifying it constantly. So, I still think that unless we want to monitor this entry for the rest of our lives we are going to have to figure out some way of solving this. This is a collaboration after all, and if a compromise can not be made, perhaps we should appeal somewhere else. (we all know the match is not "official", but I do not understand why it keeps being said that the fight was not pro; according to both Webster and WP definitions a paid fight is a pro fight.) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by G0dsweed (talk • contribs).

I see that there is no fight record displayed now. Was that the compromise? If so, once he starts having some other professional fights, people are going to want his record in there, and some type of compromise will be needed. (Cardsplayer4life 06:56, 10 September 2007 (UTC))
Also, why was the bareknuckle fighting chart of fights removed? (Cardsplayer4life 06:59, 10 September 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Subject not noteworthy enough to warrant an article

This is just some guy who beat up a bunch of average joes on internet videos. He got his ass handed to him the one time he actually faught someone with an ounce of skill. --68.149.181.145 03:47, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Get with the times man, he had a sanctioned MMA bout and is set to have another one against MMA legend Tank Abbot! UnknownToaster 02:23, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Average Joes? Apparently you're some sort of fighting legend. I'd love to see you fight those guys. I can fight and I admit that I wouldn't stand a chance against Kimbo.

Anonymus, You're my superhero! In my village, 2 streets down the road there's also a guy who I wouldn't stand a chance against. Shall i create a Wikipedia article bout him? But I agree with UnknownToaster, due to the fact that he has become a professional MMA fighter, he has to be mentioned in Wikipedia. And next to this, Wikipedia is stuffed with nonsensical articles. Every single f*ckin Pokemon cartoon creature has its own article, so who cares about another backyard brawler, even if he hadn't turned professional, he's way more worth an own article than for example Skiploom or what the hell ever. --134.76.63.1 13:23, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

well the thing about kimbo is that he is a celeberty and an internet phenom, as such, has fairly wide recongition in the mma world, despite his lack of good opponents. I think it is for these reasons that he should be included.

He now appeared 2x in MMA/UFC. If a random-crap guy from world wrestling federation deserves an wikipedia article, than this guy deserves so as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.108.103.172 (talk) 13:00, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

It seems to me that if Pokemon characters merit a Wiki entry, then a professional fighter -- especially one who has fought on prime-time network television -- does as well. Austinmayor (talk) 14:23, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Age

Since the graphics of the Mercer fight list Kimbo as being 33 years old, I'm going to change his birth date to circa 1974.Ulpian 17:31, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

This was a mistake, the announcer said this. UnknownToaster 18:00, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
OK, thanks for the correction.Ulpian 13:14, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
No problem! Forgot to sign the first one gonna sign it now I suppose x.X UnknownToaster 17:00, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Born in April? Where is the source for that information? UnknownToaster 19:53, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Weight

Is 240 his official weigh-in weight? I haven't seem the Mercer fight, maybe he slimmed down, but Kimbo looks a bit heavier than 240. The sublime directory has his weight at 260. Just wondering where the 240 came from. Turtlescrubber 00:42, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

It was actually 239lbs. MMAfan2007 22:01, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

This was discussed right before the Kimbo/Mercer fight at CFFC5. They said he walks around the streets at around 280, and planned on slimming down to around 260. He actually weighed in for CFFC5 at 240, which is very light for him.

Thanks, that clears everything up. Turtlescrubber 03:49, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Excessive info

There's way too much attention on the Kimbo vs. Gannon fight. That is long forgotten and was not the most notable fight of his. His fight with Bird was.

MMAfan2007 22:23, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

I would have to agree. Everyone just uses the Gannon vs Kimbo match up as a reference to Kimbo's poor cardio ( at the time before MMA ) and his lack of true fighting abilitiy to being matched up to someone with half decent skills. I think the Byrd vs Kimbo fight was the most notable fight due to the fact Kimbo let's him lay a free hit and has so much agression at the time, also the footege at the end of the fight with Byrds eye is a preety big factor aswell. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 58.161.34.129 (talk) 07:57, August 21, 2007 (UTC)

just a side not but it is also questionable whether the right actually adheared to the ground and pound rules of his other fights. in these fights there was no hitting someone on the ground and in this fight they fought on the ground which upset many of the spectators —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.163.136.149 (talk) 03:32, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Image

As the latest uploaded image is about to be deleted, I have asked a Flickr user if they would be willing to change the licence on photos he took at the Mercer fight. Its a Creative Commons licence at the minute, but with a non-commercial right reserved which would have to be removed to be used here. If I forgot to check to see if he responds here's where I asked him. Stu ’Bout ye! 11:03, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fighting style

Kimbo's early fights were much closer to fisticuffs then boxing. To call someone a boxer you should show they have some sort of background in the sport. Bareknuckle fights don't show said background. Also, by definition it can't be called street fighting since they were organized fights. --Mista-X 21:04, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Why are you double posting to my talk page? Anyway, fisticuffs is a dead sport which was a precursor to modern boxing. That is why when you try to add Kimbo Slice to the main page he is the only boxer from the 21st century (let alone the 20th century). Fisticuffs was a sport who's heyday was in the 18th and 19th century. Are there any fighters in the world who practice the art of "fisticuffs".Turtlescrubber 21:11, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
You're citing the movie fight club as a modern example? Turtlescrubber
I never said anything about Fight Club as an example, and gave two examples aside from Kimbo slice. Fisticuffs is practiced in Russia, Ireland, and many other places as underground fights with rules. They are not street fights, they are not pit fights (because pit fights are organized fights with little or no rules) but fisticufss (organized bareknuckle punching only fights). If Kimbo is a boxer, what cl;ub did he train at? Who was his coach, etc. etc... and even then, what he did was fisticuffs, not boxing. If I bareknuckle fight someone right now, it's not gonna' be called boxing. Seriously, you really need to grow a brain pal. --Mista-X 21:27, 5 August 2007 (UTC)
Argue boxing/fisticuffs all you want, but MMA is not a fighting style. Thesaddestday 03:29, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
That's a good point. Turtlescrubber 03:51, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

MMA is a fighting style. MIXED MARTIAL ARTS. Common sense. MMAfan2007 16:11, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Actually that is incorrect. MMA is a sport which encompasses several styles. Thesaddestday 23:47, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

You failed to answer my question. If you are fighting and you use strikes, wrestling and Judo/BJJ, etc then what did you use? MMAfan2007 15:48, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

You didn't actually ask a question. If you are fighting and use those techniques then you use those techniques... but you don't use a style called MMA. As for how fighting style is generally used for MMA fighters, it tends to list their strengths (i.e. Shaolin is a BJJ guy, Mirko is a kickboxer, etc). In the event of an incredibly well rounded guy it could say Muay Thai, BJJ, wrestling, etc. I think it would be best to give him a chance to fight some more and if he is utilizing wrestling, mt, etc well then add it. Otherwise I highly object to listing BJJ on his page considering he is most definitely a brand new white belt haha. Thesaddestday 00:08, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Alright, well lets come to an agreement. If he uses the same styles he used against Mercer on Tank Abbott, can he be credited for this being his fighting style(Boxing, Grappling, BJJ)? It seems like he does not JUST wanna use boxing. He appreciates MMA and is trying to learn it all and use it all. MMAfan2007 19:17, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to see what he does against someone... better than Tank haha. Tank is going to gas on the way to the ring, try to KO him in an immediate brawl, and probably get taken down. Against a well rounded fighter though, I think BJJ will be one of the last things he uses effectively, though. But this is just what I think. More feedback from others would be nice. Thesaddestday 01:23, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

That's true what you said about the BJJ, but I think he'll use the grappling more effectively though to be credited. MMAfan2007 18:57, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

Ok, first I am going to apologize for before. I was in a bad mood and got frustrated. Second, I would like to come to a consensus here. I think it is pretty clear that Kimbo is not and was not ever a boxer. Can we list his style as Bare-knuckle boxing or Pugilism or something? I know some of you think it is an outdated way of describing it, but I don't know what else to call bare-knuckle punching only fights. It's not Pit fighting (which includes kicking and punching) or streetfighting (which is an impromptu fight with no rules), so what else do we call Kimbo's old fights? OR we can look at what Bas Rutten teaches. What does he call his style and the style of his students? As for MMA, if you train to fight in Mixed Martial Arts tournaments, then you are training MMA. I guess it's not a really a "style", per say, but a "way" or "system". To me, saying someone who fights in MMA can't call MMA their style is like saying kickboxing isn't a style. I train Submission fighting and MMA; also in the International Fight League and KOTC I have seen them list fighter's styles as MMA. Are these professional organizations wrong? In any case, I hope we can work together to keep this article in good quality and stop the squabbling. --Mista-X 03:01, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
Bas Rutten's article lists his style as MMA. --Mista-X 16:09, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
He's an MMA fighter now so there is no point in saying MMA. It would be best to list their main fighting style(s) to give uneducated people an idea of what the guy does. Thesaddestday 02:12, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
MMA is a (type of) rules set, 'Sprawl & brawl' is a style used in MMA, "mixed martial arts (MMA) fighter" is a fair description, what did he train in originally? --Nate1481( t/c) 09:11, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Howabout "freestyle fighter"? As in, what Bruce Buffer used to call fighters who did not really have a style or has their own style? That's what they used to call Evan Tanner, who learned how to fight by his own bad self (and some videotapes). hateless 00:55, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Actually that's a good idea. I'm in favor of "freestyle fighter". Thesaddestday 01:02, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
Fine with me. Turtlescrubber 01:04, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
Good call, add it in. --Nate1481( t/c) 09:40, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
Leave it at Boxing until his next fight. One fight is hardly justice in this case. MMAfan2007 21:55, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
Is anyone going to provide some evidence or anything at all to back up the label "boxer"? Or does it just sound neater to call him a boxer? The best way to describe what Kimbo's old fights were is Fisticuffs. --Mista-X 18:07, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

This website describes Kimbo's fights as Fisiticuffs. --Mista-X 18:27, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Didn't notice they took the content from an older version of this wikipedia page?Turtlescrubber 00:08, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Arbitrary break

Since this discussion's going around in circles, I've boldly gone ahead and done something. Since the record is a point of contention and is explained in the text as prose, and putting in a fighting style would be original research, I've changed up to the {{Male adult bio}} template. Don't laugh, I know what it should be used for.  east.718  00:29, August 18, 2007 

Sounds like a good idea East. Thesaddestday 01:10, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
It's certainly not the best solution, but hopefully some forced discussion with nothing on the page will help to establish some consensus.  east.718  05:29, August 18, 2007 

I don't think their is real origin for Kimbo's fighting style, it is just stand up bareknuckle boxing with the use of elbows, their is no allowence for the use of an elbow in fisty cuffs. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 58.161.34.129 (talk) 07:59, August 21, 2007 (UTC)

In the recent match against Thompson on network television, he was introduced as being a brawler. Now, i realize this is probably OR, but if somebody could find a source on that? It seems more accurate then "boxing" or "fisticuffs" at any rate. 172.164.16.91 (talk) 01:15, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fight Record

Kimbo Slice is notable because of one thing: barenuckle boxing. His barenuckle boxing career is thus relevant to the entry, just as other boxers have their previous fights and results listed. The problem is that the fight details and results were never referenced, so editors would sometimes remove them altogether since there wasn't a proper citation. Wikipedia doesn't allow Youtube videos as references, nor does it allow videos to be used as external links or references if they do not appear on the site held by the video's copyright owner. Sublime Directory owns all rights to every Kimbo barenuckle fight (plus they wear Sublime Directory shirts in the videos), which is why the videos contain all fight details (fighter height, weight, names, etc). The fight record is relevant to the entry, and it needs a source, and the only source that supports the fight details is the website of the video copyright owners. It's a perfectly acceptable reference, just like TMZ.com was (as the copyright holders) for the infamous "Kramer" video. To remove the fight record and its reference is blatant vandalism. KimboSlice 03:44, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

That's a pretty fucked up thing to do to call me a vandal over and over again. You have been reverted by four or five other editors. You are the one vandalizing this page by adding porn links over and over again. It's not a reference but a link to a porn site that hosts illegal videos. Who knows if it's official or not. Nobody wants your commercial porn link on this page so please stop adding it. And change your name as you are not kimbo slice. Turtlescrubber 03:47, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
You're a vandal that apparently has vandalized a number of political entries (hence the constant revisions against you sitewide and the comments by other contributors). You are also making personal attacks at this point, which is against Wiki policy, if you continue I will have to report you. The site owns the copyrights to the videos, end of story. Whether or not you are personally happy with the other content that appears on the website is completely irrelevant, as playboy.com, hustler.com and countless other websites with nudity and content that people consider "porn" are used as references on wikipedia. If another reference was available, we could use it, but seeing as one isn't, it makes sense to use the actual source of the videos which owns those copyrights. Furthermore you don't know who I am, and that in itself is also irrelevant as to how an article is sourced. KimboSlice 03:54, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Personal attack? You are the only one making personal attacks. Please report me. You will be reverted by other editors as you have been in the past.Turtlescrubber 03:57, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
You have also violated the 3rr. Please stop editing the page for 24 hours as no one likes your edit war. Thanks;) Turtlescrubber 03:58, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

(from his talk page):

Please continue this discussion on that talk page, not mine, that way everyone who edits the article in the future can see the discussion. There's nothing to indicate that it's unreliable, though. KimboSlice 17:52, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
The link is to a porn site. Therefore, the site is hardly reliable, and you can't use it for citations. You've been repeatedly warned against adding this, please stop! Gscshoyru 17:56, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Unless someone here can post an actual Wikipedia rule which states that a site that contains pornography can't be used as a reliable reference, there is no reason to remove the reference for his fight record. As of yet, no one has actually provided any evidence that such a site is deemed not reliable by Wikipedia's rules of what can and can't be used as a reference. There is a good reason why the videos are located on a site that coincidentally contains pornography: Kimbo worked for RK Netmedia, a porn company, he also appears in videos for "In The VIP". Sublime Directory is the site of one of the RK cameramen, which is why the site contains every Kimbo fight with full details and their own watermarks (and not that of another site). The cameraman and Kimbo even offer Sublime Directory shirts to beaten opponents, its in the videos. Because it's filmed under the name Sublime Directory, the videos are their copyrighted works, as opposed to that of RK or another entity. So its not unusual that the videos appear on a site with pornography, considering the only camera man Kimbo allows to film his fights is one associated with the Porn company that he worked for while these fights were taking place. This should clear up what distinguishes Sublime Directory from other sites, in the meantime, someone should post the rule about porn sites being unreliable references if this is indeed the case, because I have yet to see evidence otherwise. KimboSlice 17:47, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Regardless of whether it's a pornography site, the site isn't reliable. That being said, the pornography that people see when they click on the link doesn't help your case, either. Please see the relevant wikipedia policy concerning reliable sources. Everything you say in your argument is conjecture unless you can prove otherwise and the burden of proof lays squarely on your shoulders. In any case, a little known porn site hosting illegal fight videos is nowhere near reliable and even if it were, would not be the ideal site to link to. This opens up wikipedia to charges of copyright violation and other legal entanglements. Please read over the appropriate wikipedia policies and see if you can understand why you are constantly reverted. Then think about changing your username as it is grossly inappropriate to use when you are editing this page. Also, if you have any connection or are benefiting monetarily by linking to this commercial site, realize that is also a violation of wikipedia policy. Turtlescrubber 21:21, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
(edit conflict) See WP:V and WP:RS. Though not explicitly mentioned, commercial porn sites are not valid sources, unless the article has to do with them. Your sources are not reliable or verifiable. Gscshoyru 21:23, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
First off, to Turtlescrubber's comments: "a little known porn site hosting illegal fight videos is nowhere near reliable". Out of millions of sites on the web, SublimeDirectory.com ranks in the top 5,000 websites online in terms of traffic (source: Alexa.com), so it is clearly a known and established website. Second, the fighting takes place on private property and isn't illegal, which is why Gannon (a Boston police officer) was able to fight without losing his job. "even if it were, would not be the ideal site to link to" - this is completely POV and has nothing to do with Wikipedia policy. What we have is one of the most visited sites in the world, with copyrighted videos of activity between willing participants that isn't illegal, I fail to see how that makes the site unreliable. And to Gscshoyru: "Though not explicitly mentioned, commercial porn sites are not valid sources", you have just admitted that sites containing porn are not mentioned in Wikipedia's rules of what can be referenced, but rather that you feel that they aren't reliable. You're knowingly vandalizing the page with every edit that you make. KimboSlice 21:45, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm pretty sure he meant the videos being online was illegal, not the fights themselves. Second of all, read the policy. It can't list every possible source that's not reliable, but it can explain what makes something reliable, and it does. That webpage falls very, very far of the mark. Gscshoyru 21:52, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
So, who owns the copyright? But before you answer that, prove it. Also, change your name. Oh, and then prove that the page in question qualifies as a reliable source. Conversation over. Get to it. Turtlescrubber 21:58, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Article Protected

I have protected this article for twelve hours due to disruptive edits. Editors are reminded to avoid edit wars at all costs, and to discuss disputed edits on the talk page before reverting. Editors who continue to revert without discussion will be blocked.

Cheers! — madman bum and angel 04:55, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Is such protection still appropriate in February 2008? 68.229.184.37 (talk) 09:38, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Upcoming fight against James Thompson

He is scheduled to fight James Thompson, source: http://mmamania.com/2008/04/02/kimbo-slice-vs-james-thompson-cbs-saturday-night-fights-main-event-booked/

Can someone edit this in when the article is unlocked. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.181.123.162 (talk) 18:28, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

This fight is NOT confirmed. The quoted article has a ? in the title. The first paragraph has the words "rumored" and "apparently". NO official word form EliteXC. This is just a rumor. http://www.sportsline.com/mmaboxing/headtohead/cbs_exc_53108 lists his opponent as TBA, as does the EliteXC website. Please edit out next match info as its NOT a fact.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.139.162.232 (talk) 19:48, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

I've updated the article and citation to reflect this. --Ubiq (talk) 06:08, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Ok, NOW its official http://www.elitexc.com/assets/pdf/news/2008/elitexc_saturday_night_fights_card.pdf —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.139.162.232 (talk) 13:02, 18 April 2008 (UTC)


[edit] MOVIE

It should be included in the article Kimbo had a role in the movie Blood and Bone staring Michael Jai White, and also includes other MMA fights Bob Sapp, and Gina Carano. IMDB profile: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0346631/ and trailer to movie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0IViBu1cEc —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.139.162.232 (talk) 21:12, 12 May 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Questionable Tactics

"Although Slice was defeated by Gannon and his questionable tactics..." i saw the video and didnt see any questionable tactics by gannon, I just saw a bunch of Kimbo's buddies jump in and seperate them anytime it looked like he was about to lose. Which still resulted in him being downed pretty much consistantly at the end. Anybody care to cite the fact that questionable tactics were used? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.166.58.116 (talk) 09:36, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree this comment is not supported, and is made by a Kimbo fan that can't accept defeat. Gannons 5 second choke in the beginning of the match had no affect on the outcome. Furthermore, Kimbo also violated the rules by hitting Gannon when he was down. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.139.162.232 (talk) 17:02, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

I agree with the two above comments. Anyone have a reference for the "questionable tactics." I will tag it. Thanks. --DreamsAreMadeOf (talk) 17:45, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] I have 2 issues...

I have 2 issues with this article about Kimbo Slice. The first thing is that there is an error in the article. The way it reads, it suggests that Bas Rutten trained Kimbo when Kimbo was fighting on the streets. This is incorrect, Bas Rutten only started training him when he left street fighting days behind. Logically, would someone like Bas Rutten sanction street fights?! Secondly, I think its ridiculous that there is nothing in the article about the fact the Kimbo is a convicted felon. He is quoted as saying that he "learnt how to fight in prison'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.59.35.119 (talk) 15:44, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

This is Wikipedia. If you think those edits are legit, then edit the article. Austinmayor (talk) 14:20, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm 99% sure you're right on the Ruten issue, but i'm at work and can't check all the refs. I'll try to get to it when I get home if no one beats me to it. On the convicted felon part we need to keep in mind WP:BLP. To add that, it not only needs to be true, but it needs to be backed up with an iron clad source. If we have that then it probably has a place in his background, but not without a clear reliable source reference.--Cube lurker (talk) 14:16, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm going to move the Ruten sentance. Feel free to advise if it could be done better.--Cube lurker (talk) 01:39, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

The article is semi-protected, making it more difficult to correct the first misleading statement listed above. Bas Rutten DID NOT train Kimbo until long after the Sean Gannon fight, and after his back-alley brawling vids on Youtube. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.227.85.2 (talk) 13:51, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Why This Has Been Nominated For Deletion (May 31, 2008)

The majority of this article is clearly a blatant copy and paste of the website Kimbo Slice Fights which can be evidenced from the first page of the site. ⒺⓋⒾⓁⒼⓄⒽⒶⓃ② talk 23:49, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Somehow the tag was removed and no record of it was available in the article's history. How the hell did that happen? ⒺⓋⒾⓁⒼⓄⒽⒶⓃ② talk 00:30, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
Quite the opposite actually: this page has grown organically over 2,300 edits, while that one has stolen content from here. east.718 at 00:36, June 1, 2008
Ah, ok. Glad someone could clear that up. Most situations from my experience typically are a result of persons copying from websites, not the opposite. ⒺⓋⒾⓁⒼⓄⒽⒶⓃ② talk 01:11, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] I am a fan!

He is so hott! Punkymonkey987 (talk) 17:23, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Why isn't this...

He lost to Gannon in a street fight, why isn't this mentioned?????????????????????????????????????????????? —Preceding Oh sorry, it was mentioned but calling it contreversial is NPOV. Gannon won and that's that

unsigned comment added by 99.147.140.80 (talk) 03:11, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

how exactly is he a martial artist? it seems like just street fighting that he does. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.105.134.113 (talk) 11:39, 2 June 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Press Conference Confrontation

I believe it is noteworthy to mention the post fight press conference. Fellow heavyweight Brett Rogers said Kimbos performance was garbage, looked right at Kimbo anbd said "you know you tapped". Kimbo stood up and said "That sounds like a challenge to me, dog". Promoter Gary Shaw stood in between them and ordered them to back off, saying "We'll do it in the cage". This video is available on numerous sources including Sherdog, YouTube, and MMANews.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.139.162.232 (talk) 16:53, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Kimbo vs Brett Rogers

Kimbo said on a radio show he will fight Rogers, likely in October. Here is the link to the radio station- in the center column, click on "Kimbo Slice" and you can hear the full interview. http://www.790theticket.com/shows.php?show=The+Dan+Le+Batard+Show+with+Stugotz# EliteXC promoter acknowledges Kimbo vs Rogers likely for October http://www.sherdog.com/news/news.asp?n_id=13088