Talk:Kim Philby

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[edit] Ambiguity

The line "Among his espionage duties for the Soviets was the writing of spurious love letters (interlaced with codewords), addressed to a girl in Paris who lived on the Rue de Grenelle. Only years later did he discover to his fury that the letters were actually addressed to the Soviet Embassy and that the possibility existed he could have been so easily found out" is somewhat ambiguous. Anyone with knowledge about such an event might clarify. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.2.182.135 (talk) 20:02, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] vague

When I 'initiated' this article I feared for it. The information on Philby is completely contradictory beyond the most basic dates. Sources don't agree on his positions in SIS, his value, what secrets he passed on, even whether he was homosexual or heterosexual. This misinformation lead me to create a rather dry article - the dates were there but his actual role was left vague.

He was heterosexual. - Richardcavell 18:33, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Declare

I can't believe it is safe to include information such as that from Declare as it is either arguing towards a specific theory and therefore dodgy; or it is bizzare but essentially irrelevant or confusing/distorting (eg - pipe smoking pet). I have therefore moved the Declare material to below.

Normally I'm all in favour of non-NPOV. But I think in this case it's not NPOV but veracity that will suffer. If you disagree you can put the Declare stuff back, I won't get into an 'edit war'.

His father made sure he was never baptized, and seemed to have a special interest in baptism, sending samples of water from the Jordan River to the British Museum for testing for occult powers.

, where he was the SIS Head of Station, and spent a lot of time near Mount Ararat

When he lived in Beirut, he had a pet fox that drank whiskey and would puff on smoking pipes, which died in 1963.

Tim Powers based the book Declare on his unusual life story, providing a supernatural explanation for his behavior ("Tradecraft meets Lovecraft").

Certainly Declare shouldn't be used as a reference; but the afterword to Declare has footnotes referencing various books and articles about Philby, which might support some of the above "bizarre but essentially irrelevant" stuff. --Jim Henry 15:43, 30 October 2007 (UTC)


What's this about Philby and young boys? Does anyone have a cite on the anonymously posted claim? Buffyg 23:21, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I removed it. Unsourced anonymous accusation from an anonymous source, that I can't corroborate from likely searches of Google. The "known homosexual" languages sounds like an axe to gind, too. I've left it here if anyone can confirm it. Varitek 01:47, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

*[[1991]] Unnamed sources within the United States intelligence community confirmed that Philby had been a known homosexual and sexual deviant and had been wanted for questioning in the rape/murders of 12 small boys. A recently unclassified governmental finding found references to Philby's involvement in the assassination of U.S. President John F. Kennedy, however there was never any proven, direct connection.

clumsy attempt at slur. What "recently unclassified governmental finding"? All conspiracies lead to JFK.64.160.47.40 01:42, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Jack Philby

from John Loftus book: "...There was another special reason for Kim's hatred {of his father}...Jack raped Kim's mother. Young Kim was a bastard. It was all hushed up...when it was discovered the woman was pregnant, a marriage was quickly arranged in September 1910. According to rumors, Kim was born January 1, 1911, not 1912, as officially recorded. With the help of Jack's collegues in the civil service, an altered birth certificate was planted in the hospital files..." Any use for this information? Also, need help creating a disambig page for Philby Nobs 21:35, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

My Secret War p. 88n reads: "transfer from SOE to SIS", not from SIS to SOE Nobs 03:33, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Born where

The article isn't consistent: it says he was born in India at the top, but in England in the "chronology" section. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 13:26, September 1, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] SIS

Seminumerical 07:24, 5 October 2005 (UTC) 'Thus, in 1956 Philby was again in the employ of SIS as an "informant on retainer".' AT THIS Point in the edit history SIS is not, or is no longer defined. A reader might reasonable expect to hear about SIS before the above mentioned sentence.

Yes, I agree; there appears to be somewhat of a piecemeal approach to this article from dozens of sources, and no one straightforward coordination of the whole to iron ambiguities such as you just put your finger one. nobs 16:01, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
Agreed. I have now replaced all references to "SIS" with "MI6". If editors prefer SIS, then please change all references to "MI6" to read "SIS", or, if there's a concensus to this effect, put a note on my talk page and I'll be glad to do it myself. TheMadBaron 16:17, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Poland

Many Poles believe that Philby was involved in anti-Polish activities during WWII. He's rather unpopular there. Xx236 10:30, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fourth Protocol

I deleted reference to ths book stating Philby was a triple agent who work for Britain "all along'. In fact the inference is that after many years in the USSR he may have started passing along some information. Iwalters 21:56, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] references

what about peter wirghts book sypycatcher in the references section

--

I have cleaned up the slightly erroneous information about Philby's Moscow years in this article based on Genrikh Borovik: The Philby Files: The Secret Life of Master Spy Kim Philby, Phillip Knightley : Master Spy, The : The Story of Kim Philby and Rufina Philby: Private Life of Kim Philby: The Moscow Years. Those are the best sources for that period of his life. —Preceding unsigned comment added by LennartF (talk • contribs)

[edit] Beruit

I edited the last paragraph of the Beruit section, correcting the statement that Philby "immediately confessed" to Nicholas Elliot when told of new evidence against him. I based my correction on The Philby Files by Genrikh Borovik, which I also added as a reference. I think The Philby Files serves as the most reliable source on the information in question, considering that the information in the book came from discussions with Philby himself. --Runnermonkey 01:19, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Beruit Speculation

The question of how Philby responded to accusations from Nicolas Elliot can not be answered without mere speculation. Thus I have edited the last paragraph of the Beruit section to reflect the nature of the topic, avoiding leaning toward any possible answer. It is not known whether Philby confessed to Elliot or simply downplayed the accusations. Philby himself claimed the latter, but many sources do claim otherwise. --Runnermonkey 01:18, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Graham Greene and Kim Philby

This article refers to Graham Greene as a "deputy director" of the MI5. If you go Graham Greene's article there is no indication that he actually held a rank in the organization, just that he was recruited by Philpy to perform espionage for Britian during WW2.

  • I agree: in the world of smoke and mirrors one cannot both know and tell, but I expect Greene was a wartime "asset" and thereafter only a lifelong patriotic "agent". Delete it!Jezza

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Is there really any connection between Philby and the Graham Greene-written "The Third Man"? Besides the title, they seem to me to be wholly unrelated. Perhaps this reference should go?e

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I agree "The Third Man" reference is spurious and the notation should be removed. Graham Greene wrote the novella in 1949. Kim Philby fell under suspicion in 1951.

My understanding, from reading long ago ("My Secret War" perhaps or maybe "Treason in the Blood" or an obscure New Yorker article from the late eighties), is that after the Burgess / MacLean affair news story broke, the press widely used the term "The Third Man" as part of the sensational headline fodder of the story as at the time there was speculation there was a third member of their ring. Now we know that there was not only a third, but there was a fourth and a fifth at least. Harry Lime is small beans compared to our Mr. Philby which is to say there is no relationship between Greene's character and Philby in terms of their activities. I suspect the confusion arises out of the press re-manufacturing the title of a movie into a headline. --Poxenator 06:29, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

--

The literature section has:

Graham Greene's novel The Human Factor explores aspects of Philby's story.

Would it be more accurate and helpful to say something like

The Human Factor by Graham Greene has a main character partly modeled on Philby.

That is, it isn't overtly about Philby like the Powers or Forsyth novels listed. --Jim Henry 15:39, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Philby was a close friend of the novelist Graham Greene, who reportedly left MI6 rather than become involved in exposing Philby. Then Greene shares responsibility for the deaths that were caused by Philby.Lestrade (talk) 02:11, 19 January 2008 (UTC)Lestrade

[edit] Chronology

It seems to me that the more elaborate details in the "Chronology", such as those concerning Konstantin Volkov, should be moved to earlier sections of the article. The "Chronology" should serve as a brief summary, or be removed altogether, once such details are transferred. TheMadBaron 16:24, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mitrokhin Archive

I have finished reading The Sword And The Shield, the first book written from info in the Mitrokhin Archive and have inserted information about his life in Moscow, including first hand accounts of his downward spiral into alcoholism, his subsequent rehabilitatin and his KGB job.I have tried to insert this info into the section MOSCOW without removing any of the good info.If you wish to edit the Moscow section, courtesy is called for.Saltforkgunman 05:46, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Not bloody Nikita

His Soviet cryptonym was Stanley. C 08:47, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Behavior of Burgess

What exactly constitutes behaving very badly? The reader is left wondering what would cause someone to be labeled persona non grata. (Diskzero 15:55, 19 March 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Operation Musketeer

'He was supposedly given the position of second-in-command to the leader of Operation Musketeer, the British, French, and Israeli plan to attack Egypt and depose Gamal Abdel Nasser. However, given Philby's sympathies, it can only be supposed, if this truly occurred, that his role was less one of support, than of subversion.' Where did this come from? Why on earth would a disgraced ex-spy be given second in command of such an operation? 217.7.209.108 09:07, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Philby.jpg

Image:Philby.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 21:07, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tone

The article needs some serious overhaul. The tone alone is so weird that at time I thought it was a joke:

First came the discovery of the cryptonym HOMER (Donald Maclean) in the VENONA decrypts — a "jigsaw puzzle" of decrypts, decoded piecemeal because some Soviet code clerk had used a one-time pad twice; then came another visit from Guy Burgess who ensconced himself in the Philby household for a year and proceeded to behave very badly.

The biography is told out of chronological order and parts are repeated. SnappingTurtle (talk) 12:08, 5 February 2008 (UTC)