User talk:Khoikhoi/Archive 12

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[edit] Is Wikipedia here for Snark or Contibutions?

Reverting the vandalism back from the Tarkan talk pages: Can you tell me what exactly about the pure snark added by some anon who didn't even have the guts to leave his sig have any redeemable quality for you to revert back to - when what was removed was for vandalism purposes? I was so surprised as we all know how wonderfully helpful you've been in all things Turkish on Wikipedia... 82.145.231.24 07:54, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Category:Terrorist organizations

My point was that Meibion Glyndŵr was classed as a terrorist organisation but other groups with supporters on Wikipedia were given the nicer "accused of". Now everyone is equal, thats fine.Hypnosadist 22:07, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Tajik" vs "Persian"

Usually, Tajiks do not consider themselvs "Persians". Most of all it's because they consider "Persian" a synonym for "Shia", and thus regret the term. In Afghanistan, people do neither use the word "Tajik" - actually, it is quite unknown - nor "Persian", but simply "Afghan".

Due to the high ilitracy rate (especially in Afghanistan, the country with the highest illitracy-rate in the world), people do not have access to proper education. That's why you'll see Afghans who claim that "Zarathustra was Afghan", that "Rumi was Afghan", and that eventually "Hafiz was Afghan".

In past 20 years, however, there has been some revival of Persian-nationalism (although not with the term "Persian"). The politcal party "Setam-e Mili" had some influence on the communist regime, until their leader, Badakhshi, was killed.

The problem is that the term "Persian" is actually a Western expression - it's not even in use in Iran.

There is some kind of a national feeling in regard of Persian language and culture among Tajiks and Afghanistan - but usually without the term "Persian".

They rather say "Dari" or "Aryan" instead of "Persian language" and "Persian identity".

You might also be intersted in the writings of Dr. Latif Pedram[1], a politician in Kabul who is usually regarded as a "pan-iranist". He openly opposes the name "Afghanistan" and suggest a name-change to "Khurasan" and calls Iran his "cultural homeland". He is an Islamili Tajik from Badakhshan.

Tajik 23:18, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

BTW: This template: {{Turkic}} is pure nonsense! Claiming all kinds of peoples and empires as "Turks", such as Huns or Avars (people of whom we almost know nothing) is more than POV. That's like claiming the Sumerian civilization "Iranian" only because of a few Iranian words in their language. According to the German Wikipedia (de:Hunnische Sprache, an article that is being written by academic Prof. Dr. Ernst Kausen - de:Benutzer:Ernst Kausen, see also de:Ernst Kausen - who in only 2 months managed to write 7 featured articles about Eurasian languages!), there is absolutely no proof for the claim that the Huns were "Turks". They could have been Mongols or maybe even an extinct ethnic group ... and most of all: the Huns were not "one people", but an extremely heterogenious horde of all kinds of peoples. Tajik 23:42, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
Regarding the template: I've nominated it for deletion: [2]. Tajik 15:59, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
Regarding your question about "Afghans": the term "Afghan" is a synonym for "Pashtun", and the name "Afghanistan" was a creation of the Brittish colonial empire who simply created European-like nation-states in Asia. The Pashtuns were the ones who had closest contacts to the British, so that's why they called the lands north of British-India "Afghan lands" - in the Perso-British contract of Paris ("Treaty of Paris"; 1857), the English term "Afghan lands" was translated as "Afghanistan" into Persian, and from 1919 (Afghanistan's official independence), it became the "official name".
From then on - and especially after the constitution of 1964, which defines the citizes of Afghanistan as "Afghans" - the term "Afghan" is the most common self-designation of the people - no matter what ethnicity. However - as very evident in the speeches of the countries rulers, including Dr. Najib and even Hamid Karzai - the term "Afghan" is still used as a synonym for "Pashtun".
It does not matter wether Tajiks consider themselvs "Persians", "Afghans", or "Russians" - FACT is, that the term "Tajik" is a Turkish expression meaning nothing else but "Persian". The Turkic rulers of Iran called all Persian-speakers in Iran "Tajiks", and the Turks in Central-Asia call the Persian-speaking population (keeping in mind that the Persian language is the predominant factor for "being Persian") "Tajiks".
It's also important to note that the term "Tajik" and "Uzbek" as modern nomina for ethnic groups is a creation of the Russians. While 100 years ago, the people of Central-Asia were rather classified by their way of life, the Russian forced an European view of "ethnicity" on them, seperating Chagtay-Turkic speakers (whom they wrongly named "Uzbeks", purposely eliminating their self-designation "Tork" in oder the seperate them from Ottoman Anatolia) from the Persian-speakers (whom they gave the name "Tajik", purposely creating a cultural border between them and the Shahs of Persia who were rivals of the Russians in the Caucasus). This is also exactly the reason why the term "Tajik" was adopted by the Afghan Shahs - fearing pan-Persian sentiments among the Persian-speakers, the Pashto-speaking kings (and their British, anti-Iranian supporters) forced the Turkish term "Tajik" on the Persian-speaking population of Afghanistan. That's exactly why still today the term "Tajik" is quite unknown in Afghanistan (to be honest, I only came accross that word in Western sources, but had never heared it in my family) and why most people still call themselvs "Farsiwan" ("Persian-speaker") or - in Herat or Farah - "Farsi" ("Persian"; usually a name given to Persian-speaking Shias in addition to "Qizilbash") ... or why they simply call themselvs "Kabuli", "Herati", or "Mazari".
The definition "Tajik = Persian" is also given in the Encyclopaedia of Islam and Encyclopaedia Iranica, therefore we should use that same definition in Wikipedia. These two sources are authoritative and - what'S most important - not written by nationalists. Tājik 23:58, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
User:Sikandarji has created a very nice article regarding the "ethnicity issue" in the former Soviet republics of Central Asia: Sart. You might be interested in that. Tājik 08:19, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] CrazyRussian's RfA

Image:Motherussia.jpg Hello Khoikhoi, and thank you for your support at my request for adminship, which ended with an awe-inspiring 86/1/2 result. I plan to do much with my shiny new tools - but I'll start slow and learn the ropes at first. Please deluge me with assignments and requests - I enjoy helping out. For Mother Russia!! - CrazyRussian talk/contribs/email 05:05, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] My RfA

Hello, Khoikhoi/Archive 12, and thank you for the supportive vote on my recent RfA! With a final vote of 84/1/4, I have now been entrusted with the mop, bucket and keys. I will be slowly acclimating myself to my new tools over the next months, but welcome any and all feedback and suggestions on how I might be able to use them to help the project. Thanks again! - Kukini 05:16, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 80.237.35.202's statement, Englished

Here's 80.237.35.202's statement:

Sen Azerisin. Bu bellidir. Ve bu konuda cahilsin. "Panturkism" (Turkculuk) baska mesele. Ben dedim ki Avarlarin bir buyuk kismi Turkce bilir. Sen ise bana "Panturkizmin" hakkinda yaziyorsun.Dil ve Politik doktrin ayni anlamlar degil. Turkce bilenler automatik olarak "Turkculer" olamazlar.

And here it is, Englished:

"You are an Azeri. This is clear. And you're ignorant on this subject. 'Panturkism' (Turkculuk) is another matter. I said that a large proportion of the Avars know Turkish. As for you, you're writing to me about 'Panturkism'. Language and political doctrine are not the same thing. People who know Turkish are not automatically 'Panturkists'."

—Saposcat 05:57, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Too many barnstars!

Hey man, I didn't think we were allowed to give more than one barn star. Unwritten rule or something. Turkish people might be tougher to do given the situation. I'll see what's next. Maybe help fix Alan Moore. Let me know when the Pashtuns can have some pictures cause that one with Ahmad Shah's a big eye sore the way it's placed. Ciao. Tombseye 06:04, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] My RFA
Khoikhoi, thank you very much for your support in my recent Request for adminship, it passed with a final tally of (65/3/3) - which I find both amazing and humbling. I wish I had time to thank everyone personally, but I'm afraid all I can offer is this token of my gratitude. I hope to live up to your expectations/hopes. If at any stage you need to contact me, for help or a request or to point out a mistake in my conduct, please make sure to tell me on my talk page. --Fir0002 08:23, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Turkish Cypriots

Yes you were right to revert. There were massacres, and even veiled threats by Makarios "To attack every Turkish Cypriot on the island", but not enough academic support to call genocide. If Sampson did stay in power though, that would have been a different story...

Read Cyprus dispute if your interested, the majority was written by a British expert on the subject. --A.Garnet 10:52, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

As you see the Greek name of Instanbul was removed, despite the official presence of the ethnic group. Why do you insist on providing foreign names which are of no importance to the etymology of the modern one? Is there a specific policy you have in mind or just your personal idea of how to bring the world together? Miskin 13:02, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thank you

Image:WikiThanks.png Hi Khoikhoi/Archive 12, thank you for voting in my RFA which failed eventually at a result of (91/51/8). I do not plan to run for adminship until a later date. Once again, I would like to thank you for voting. --Terence Ong (talk | contribs) 14:54, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Azeris pictures

Hey what about Babak and Dede Korkut? Apparently, there are some copyright issues. Tombseye 19:58, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

I think a picture collage is just not viable given the copyright issues and questions raised. The pictures should just be distributed throughout the article instead. Tombseye 20:06, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
Okay, I guess I'll unfortunately have to take down the cool Babak picture for now. We can put it back later hopefully as I'll leave a space in the medieval section for him. He fits appropriately in a section on medieval history in so many ways. I can just imagine him going medieval on the Arabs. At this rate, I'll be handing you a barn star a week. I feel like Stan Lee with his damn 'no prizes'. Ciao. Tombseye 20:14, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
Haha. I'm expecting hate messages any moment from the Armenians. I guess I'll have to do one of those pages next. This might become a never ending thing as I go from on neighboring group to the next. Sheesh. Tombseye 20:22, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the heads-up and helping out man. Tombseye 01:14, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
Strange deal over the Turkish people as usual. Say what's the status on the Pashtun pictures? It's been a while so I was just wondering as the page looks pretty bare in comparison to the Azeris. Tombseye 19:46, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Being rude

Why are people (User:NorbertArthur) so rude? They should be disciplined. --Telex 22:05, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Like Bonaparte - have you seen his activities (vandalism) at mowiki lately. You too should open an account there to help clearing up after him (until a steward can finally permaban him from there also). I have a very creative username ;-) --Telex 22:12, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
Repied. --Telex 22:20, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Neo-Stalinist Commie

Congrats, it seems you have received that title once again, lol. TSO1D 23:51, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Peace

Let's start from scratch, ok? Lutherian 04:48, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Sorry if I seemed sarcastic but they are sure giving me a hard time, especially THOTH with his denigrating comments suggesting that I write a childrens book and publish it in Turkey!!! Seehere lutherian 16:39, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
no problemo, I will let you know if something like this occurs again :-) lutherian 16:36, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WP:AIV

hi there. I'd say AIV is a good fix-all - I always go there when CSD is getting piled up. Although if AIV is asleep, try ANI!Blnguyen | Have your say!!! 05:06, 14 June 2006 (UTC).

[edit] I think I was working on that

Yes; I was working on sorting the names; If you like check the page and we will remove the wikify template. Thanks.--OttomanReference 05:13, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

thnks! You have a point. If you can find a better form, it will be nice.--OttomanReference 05:22, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] OK, let's leave it so

Thanks Khoikhoi, actually I don't want to be involved in the third balkanic War... ;-) What you say about Lvov makes totally sense, but unfortunately there are wounds which for some people are still open! This means that I will not touch the naming changes of your friend.

Thanks,


alex2006 06:50, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks a lot Khoikhoi

 Dear Khoikhoi/Archive 12, thanks for your support during my recent request for adminship. It means so much more to me coming from a veteran like yourself!! I look forward to serving Wikipedia as an administrator. Do not hesitate to leave me a message on my talk page or to e-mail me if there is anything I can help you out with. You take care, and I hope the California weather is better than the Toronto weather! -- Samir धर्म 08:01, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

Although no consensus was reached in the end, I still wanted to thank you for your vote in my recent RfA. Thank you very much. Fritz S. (Talk) 17:58, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Iranian languages

I am sorry my friend but anyone can come out and saw "I am a professional linguist". This is the wikipedia, how do we know who this person is or what are his credentials? The map you just showed me is from 1982! That is from during the war when almost everyone left the province so the source they used must have been from before the revolution, maybe years ago since Shah's government never provided ethnic statistics. The way it shows Khuzestan it looks like the demographics of the province from late 1800s! Its silly. Instead of using more recent data which shows that less than 40% of the province are Arabic-speakers (out of over 4 million people of many ethnic groups, and ethnologue says only 1.2 million Arabic-speakers in Khuzestan total), this person wants to claim extremely old information as superior to new sources! That is bad and why I syspect he is far from being a "linguist" or "academic". CIA may not be academic from yours or his perspective but it meets criteria of WP:V, and same for other sources listed on Arabs of Khuzestan which Mr. Imperial78 ignores. Khorshid 18:37, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Superpower

This user doesn't has a life as he/she keep vandalising the page and removing my source-citing edits (per policy). He/she commits personal attacks on 'edit summary' and probably violates 3RR. 219.79.166.20 18:49, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] cfd

What again is (or was) your reason to delete these two categories Category:Terrorist organizations and Category:Former terrorist organizations? Intangible 19:00, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

So why haven't you filed for deletion of the Category:Terrorism and all its subcategories. How will you prevent Hamas from being categorized under this category? Intangible 01:07, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
Well that category's definition is even more broad and dubious than the one I had provided in the Category:Terrorist organizations. The Category:Terrorists has existed on Wikipedia since June 2004, so why should wikipedia editors make an exception for organizations? Intangible 01:30, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Why are you going after me?

I took your comments under advisement re: Istanbul. When I re-inserted my link, I added other content, and other links. And what do you do? Remove everything, including the photo content (thus orphaning my pictures), and once again, fail to leave a single letter of explanation as to why you did so - either in a revert note, or in a note to me personally.

Why are you going after me? The Istanbul external links section is chock full of other personal photo albums (i.e. http://perso.orange.fr/istanbul/istanbul_presentation.htm) If your standards for this page, as editor, are to remove external links to personal sites with photos as the main content, then you should be applying this standard equally to other links on this page, not just to my web site.

I'm trying to improve the quality of my contributions, and would like to become a regular contributor to wikipedia, but this sort of editorial behavior is frustrating, and is going to scare me - and other new contributors - off. I'm not trying to diminish your contributions to wikipedia, I know you've done a LOT here to maintain the quality of a lot of articles, but I'd just like you to take more time to ensure your editorial actions are fair and uniformly applied. In addition, please try to take the time to explain content reverts, especially to non-anonymous users- or we'll never learn, and feel that we're just wasting time trying to contribute. Isewell 19:32, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your note, and I also owe you an apology - as you pointed out, it wasn't you who removed the images, it was the anonymous user whose changes you cleaned up that removed the images. I got lost in the history deltas. I understand your comment, and I will make sure that my contributions to the wikipedia project aren't exclusively to include links to my own website. Thanks again for your fast response.

Isewell 21:18, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Brasoveanul

The evidence is inconclusive, but if the edit pattern is the same then you don't need CheckUser. Jayjg (talk) 21:23, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ottoman Empire

About the extended info you added under Ottoman Empire about Armenian issue. I think it would be a better policy to cover it under its own page. Given that controversial nature, given that Ottoman Empire is a main page that covers more than 600 years of history without detail discussions. It would be appropriate to have link (possibly a neutral one) and leave the rest under its page. I believe, adding info in this page can easily turn into a forked page. Thnks--OttomanReference 22:43, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Please; do not think, I'm trying to eliminate the issue from Ottoman Empire page. I belive a neutral reference would bring less strain to this page and keep people working on its page. I'm not claiming that you are trying to inject anything, but just from experiance, lets keep references and sharp words on its page. You might be right about not adding info, but my defense is that it is very long page, and I do not read that page from top to bottom every day. Without the edits I might not have noticed it. Thnks--OttomanReference 23:05, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

help me out! I'm trying to play a position that is not easy. If you help me we can make it sound wright without really turning the article into another edit war page. Thnks.--OttomanReference 23:17, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Working on your first sentence, give me a sec.. I think it feels better.thnks.--OttomanReference 23:42, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Is there anything you want to add? The activity (deportation) is there, the position (state based genocide) is there, the link to the page is (armenian genocide) there. Anything I miss?--OttomanReference 23:50, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Deletion of Israeli theory

Yeah, I'd be okay with the deletion, BUT I'm worried about that stuff cropping back up at Pashtuns. That's the last thing we need. Sorry to say this, but I looked at that article as a dumping ground for that perspective so that it wouldn't screw up the Pashtuns page. I know it's horrible, but whattya gonna do ya know? Hmm, maybe you can go ahead and upload the pictures and then deal with the admins afterwards? Just a thought. I'd think given your popularity and propensity to help admins get selected, they'd drop everything to listen to you. What's up with that? Tombseye 23:06, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] {{User az iran}}

Hi Khoikhoi

Template:User mo-2 seems to be a completely different. I created Template:User az iran for those who can read and write Azari in Persian alphabet.

Persian Magi 01:55, 15 June 2006 (UTC)


It is the same language. But Azeri of Republic used to write in Russian alphabet, Cyril, and have opted to move to Latin a while ago. Iranian Azaris read and write Azari in Persian alphabet. Persian Magi 01:59, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

In other words, not all Azeri speaking people can read and write Azeri literature published in Iran and Azeris of Iran might have difficulties readin the Latin publications of Republic. I personally can not read the ones in traditional Russian alphabet. Persian Magi 02:02, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

If we merge the templates, someone from Republic of Azerbaijan, who can only read and write Azeri in Russian and Latin, might find the template fit for him/her as he/she can not read/write Persian alphabet. Also, some Iranian Azeris might have difficulty reading Latin version. I read and write Azeri much slower when in Latin than in Persian. Persian Magi 02:08, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Maybe We should have a third template, including both Persian and Latin alphabet. But I think we might have two distinc templates one in Latin and the other in Persian alphabets, to include all three possibilites: One for those who can read and write Azeri only in Latin alphabet, one for those who can read and write only in Persian alphabet and one for those who can read and write in both alphabets. Persian Magi 02:14, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

I would not be surprised if they debate whether or not we should have a template in Persian alphabet at all as some of them might feel it is an effort to Persianize them. :) However, seriously, although, no formal education for Azeris in Iran has existed, there are plenty of Azeri books in Persian alphabet and in fact, there was debate in Azeri Republic's parliament which decided Latin over Persian and Russian alphabet in 1991 to replace Russian which was forced upon them by soviets: [[3]] Persian Magi 02:28, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

That is great news Khoikhoi. :)

Regarding the template, I think the second cell should have lang="fa" dir="rtl" in its text style so the direction goes from right to left. But only for the second cell. I do not mind to change the template as long as Azeris from Republic do not feel it is a sort of Persian conspiracy to annex their oil wells. :)

Thanks Khoikhoi. The template looks okey from Persian script point of view. But the first cell should be left aligned. I am not sure how you do it. But the text format for each cell should be different. Persian Magi 02:54, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

If you could do the cells horizontal, it would be nice. The text in verticals looks a bit clumsy. Persian Magi 03:01, 15 June 2006 (UTC)


The template looks great now. Thanks. :) Persian Magi 03:47, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

For the record, Azerbaijan has had a Latin alphabet already since 1928, and was planning to introduce it back in First Republic times, but was overrun by Bolsheviks in 1920. Then Stalin changed it for all Turkic people to Cyrillic in 1938. Thus, when Azerbaijan parliament made the decision to change to Latin in 1991, it was a switch back, not smth new, and not forced by anyone -- it was a very popular decision. Meanwhile, literature in Azerbaijani in Cyrillic and Latin alphabets is much greater than in Arabic script. Yet Arabic script is taught in some schools in North Azerbaijan, and of course Latin alphabet is taught in many schools in Iran. --AdilBaguirov 04:04, 16 June 2006 (UTC)


I removed the padding. Font size does make a difference for me; I am using mozilla on Unix though. Let me know if that is still not good. By the way, Latin alphabet taught in Iran are for English usage only and does not have many of those vowels used in Turkish and Azerbaijani. (Just for your info.) Persian Magi 06:07, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tibet dab phrase

Before editting again, I want to say that I think it's better to bold the link Tibet Autonomous Region. We need to emphasize that one as the TAR is almost as relevant as the historical/cultural Tibet. Heilme 03:39, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the understanding. My concern is that "Tibet" nowadays can regularly mean to the TAR. I mean this is the same as the China article. So, in case people are looking for TAR instead for cultural Tibet, just to try to get their attention by bolding the phrase (make it more stand out). Heilme 03:45, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Stop

Stop your harrasment or you'll be blocked. I'm very serious about it. I have spoken with an Admin and you'll be blocked. However can you support your edits? No. So you'll get blocked. I'm very happy. Next time you'll not do that again, I'm sure. Bonaparte talk 05:44, 15 June 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Please fix my user page

Khokoi, I tried adding in some boxes to my userpage and the overall shape is irregular. Could you please rearrange them so that they all go down in one column? Also, try to make sure the socialist box is apparent. My edit page has it, but it's not coming up in the main page. Thanks! Afghan Historian 07:09, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

One more thing: I ask because you helped me once before. Thanks once again!

[edit] Help with vandalism

Hi Khoi, I thought you could help with User:Macahel who repeatedly vandalizes the Adjaria and Machakheli articles. He edits from Turkey and keeps removing the Adjarian flag because it has Christian crosses. He tries to remove everything Georgian related to the Machakheli page and even removes a link to the Georgian Wikipedia. I've recently received a complaint about his similar behavior on Turkish wiki where he has gained fame for his bellicose Islamist rhetoric. Thanks in advance, --Kober 09:44, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Speedy deletion

I noticed that you tagged the page Image:Erivan1796.jpg for speedy deletion with the reason "now in the Wikimedia Commons". However, "now in the Wikimedia Commons" is not currently one of our criteria for speedy deletion, so I have removed the speedy deletion tag. You can use WP:IFD if you still want the article to be deleted. Thanks! Stifle (talk) 09:53, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

This also applies to:
Stifle (talk) 09:54, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

Thanks for the welcome:) And keeping an eye on my page (with Kagan's vandalism and stuff).

I don't mind the rough start. The guy totally refuses to compromise, so I guess some roughness is necessary.

I read the 1RR page. What was I supposed to learn from there?

Thanks again.

Thank you for helping out with Karbala :) Chaldean 00:31, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dari

Hi Khoikhoi. The article Dari (Afghanistan) needs some attention and copy-editing. It's in a bad shape with many spelling mistakes, etc. Could you please take some time and correct a few of those mistakes? That would be great. Tājik 21:51, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Azeris junk

Man, I don't check in for a while and all hell breaks lose. And man the changes just disrupted the whole flow of the article. Anyway, just removed the whole mention of their "controversial" origins (which had a citation so I don't even know why it was still debated, yeesh) and left it at they were Shiites which is more relevant to the point of their take-over. Ciao for now. Tombseye 22:31, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Khoikhoi, your latest addition, "Azerbaijani, Persian (in Iran)", is confusing, IMHO. First, because it leaves the impression that Azerbaijanis in Iran speak only Persian, and second, that Persian is native to most. Likewise, we can then include Russian for North Azerbaijan -- and do that for each and every ex-USSR republic. Armenians speak Eastern and Western Armenian. Do you see the point? I think it's obvious that majority of Azerbaijanis in Iran must be able to speak Persian, some natively, because that's the official language of Iran. Likewise, Azerbaijanis can speak other languages, including English which is taught from 2-4th grade in North Azerbaijan. I think you should restore the table to what it was, which is one language, Azerbaijani. --AdilBaguirov 03:55, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks for Supporting my RfA!

My Request for Adminship passed by a margin of 54/6/1. If you see me doing something I shouldn't, let me know. Ian Manka Talk to me! 00:35, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hi

HOw are you? You seem like a nice editor? Have we ever meet before? 69.196.164.190

[edit] Edit warring

Haha, that link is hilarious. I can't believe the stupid things people argue over! Avengers vs. New Avengers?! I usually monitor the Afghanistan page along with lots of others (I've lost count), but the Azeris has really kept me busy to notice today. I take it someone doesn't like Afghanistan or something. Nice writing. I took a Persian class years ago so I vaguely recall the writing. It seems your talents are expanding! Tombseye 05:45, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Dude, what's up with the Azeris page? The history section is somehow blanking out the medieval section's beginning which is really odd. I can't figure out why. Check out for me if you can. Tombseye 06:29, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
Forget it. Problem solved. Tombseye 06:35, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Streets of Kabul

Though the copyright blurb seems to imply that he allows people to "use" it, he hasn't clearly stated that. It could be that permission must be sought to use it, and the blurb only states how to use it once permission is sought (Though I haven't come across such a thing. If he has to explicitly grant permission, can't he indicate the terms while granting the permission?). Also it is unclear whether modification to these images are allowed.

Probably you can try asking at Wikipedia:Requested copyright examinations. -- Paddu 06:11, 16 June 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Machakheli

  • The Machakheli is a small region in the Kartvelian history. It has two parts. Today, Upper Machakheli (it’s smallest part) in Turkey and it is called Camili, not Machakhel. Lower Machakheli in Georgia is called Machakheli today also (see მაჭახელი in Georgian Wikipedia). That’s all. This guy, has penname “Macahel”, is a problem boy, especially in Turkish Wikipedia. See Macaheli, Acara, Kobuleti in Turkish. The form of Machakhel(i) is not true, because this name is Georgian, not Turkish. See Kutaisi, Poti, Tbilisi etc. We cannot to write these names without “–i”. Thanks.--SidE 06:56, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
  • I have just seen this message. These guys really don't know so much about Machakhel! Above message contains almost false informations. Machakhel had never been a part Kartvelian history. It was first under the dominance of independent princes, then was a part of Ottoman State. Upper Machakhel is not only called Camili, but also called Machakhel! Lower Machakhel in Ajaristan is called Machakhel-a, not Machakhel-i! Machakhel-i is only a spelling that exist in Georgian! That's all! These guys (I called them the lobby of Kartvelian) are also prolem in Turkish Wikipedia.--Macahel 10:29, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dear Khoikhoi

After another night of heavy drinking, I am writing to you. Thanks to my f-word server I cannot get access to any of my e-mail accounts. I'll drop you a notice as soon as I solve the problem. My gang was not the type of an LA gang, of course we were humbler, a dope for the adolescence trauma you'd say :-)

I agree with the guy above for the issue Machakheli. Macahel guy is a casual POV pusher whom I'd never qualify as a user, accordingly. Probably an ethnic-Georgian-Turkish-nationalist. The "solution" you have found is very mediocrish. The real issue is that in the vicinity of Artvin, they usually drop the -i suffix at the end of Georgian names of location. For example, no one will talk about Klarjeti but Klarcet, i.e. Klarjet. I think we should stick to the Georgian spelling მაჭახელი and its usual transliteration Machakheli.

As for the Lazistan map, it sure is not relevant. It even covers the territory of Trabzon sanjak, the seat of Trabzon vilayet! I removed it. I can help on the boundaries if you are eager to create a new map. Ciao! Behemoth 07:45, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

  • Behemoth, etnik Gürcü-Türk milliyetçisiyim öyle mi? Sen nesin peki? Ben sadece Macahel'liyim, Artvin'liyim. Macahel'in ne şekilde yazılacağını da çok iyi biliyorum. -i sadece Artvin'de düşüyor diyorsun.. Peki Batum'u ne yapacağız? Her yerde, herkes Batum diyor! Batum neyse Macahel de odur. Elbette Gürcüce'de Batum-i', Macahel-i diye yazılır ve söylenir. Bunun da kelimenin aslıyla ilgisi yoktur. Sonu sessiz harfle biten Türkçe veya başka bir kelime de Gürcücede -i eklenerek yazılır ve söylenir. Mesela Behemoth-i, Mehmet-i, Uğur-i vs. Bu Gürcücenin kuralıdır. Diğer dillerde böyle bir kural yoktur. Eğer bunu diğer dillere taşırsak, mesela Macahel-i yi esas aldığımızda, Macahel'de yaşayanlara ne diyeceğiz? Macahel-i-li gibi komik bir kelime ortaya çıkar. Oysa Gürcücede doğrusu Macah-leli dir. Yani büyük bir inatla savunduğunuz -i Gürcücede dahi zaman zaman düşebiliyor. Dolayısıyla kelimenin bir parçası değil. O zaman asıl kelimeyi almalı, eklerini ilgili dile bırakmalıyız. Mesele bu kadar basit. Bunun Gürcüce düşmanlığı veya Türk milliyetçiliği ile ilgisi yok, bu basit bir mantık kuralıdır. Aslında bu tip kelimelerde doğrusu, o kelimenin yazımı ne şekilde yerleşmişse onu kullanmaktır ve Macahel yazımı da yerleşmiştir. Gidin sorun Artvin'deki insanlar Türkçe konuşurken hangisini kullanıyor, Macahel'lilerin kurduğu vakıf ve dernekleri, siteleri araştırın... Biraz objektif olun, bir kişinin masabaşında uydurduğu, sonra da kendisinin dahi içinden çıkamadığı birşeye takılıp kalmayın... Beni kullanıcı olarak dahi kalifiye etmemişsin ama bir kullanıcının ahkam kestiği konularda asgari bir bilgisinin olması da şarttır sanırım..--Macahel 10:50, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
    • No, dear Khoikhoi, I won't care to argue with him. I can never really take a Zeyrekist for serious. Ciao! Behemoth 22:33, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Merhaba Khoikhoi, iyiyim teşekkür ederim. Umarım siz de iyisinizdir... Dear Khoikhoi, he said:"I won't care to argue with him". But the reality is that he can not argue with the facts! Because the spelling of Machakhel is a clear fact, as he certainly knows. And his other sentence: "I can never really take a Zeyrekist for serious".. This is only funny... I'm not a zeyrek-ist or other -ist, I am only realist! But he claims something that are against the reality and logic. So maybe he is (...)-ist! He might fill the (...)--Macahel 07:42, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Dear Khoikhoi, the all people of Machakhel speak Georgian. The people of upper Machakhel use "Machakhel" when they don't speak Georgian and the lower Machakhel is called -even in Georgian- Machakhel-a, not Machakhel-i. The supporters of Machakhel-i know very well this fact.Any way..
I will upload some photos of Machakhel to the article of Camili. I don't want to contribute to other article anymore.. Because I believe it does not express our Machakhel.--Macahel 20:40, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Issue on TRNC Coat of Arms

The reason why I listed TRNC among the sovereign states is that neither TRNC neither so-called "Cyprus Republic" considers the North of the island as a part of another whole. Besides it's not in the same category as "Abkhazia" or "Ossetia" it's in the same category (Partially Recognized Countries of the World) with "Republic of China", (see: List of unrecognized countries) of which Coat of Arms is enlisted.

Also considering the definiton of "State": "A state is a set of institutions that possess the authority to make the rules that govern a society, having internal and external sovereignty over a definite territory."

And considering the criteria to define a Sovereign State: "Criteria for inclusion This list derives its definition of a sovereign state from Article 1 of the Montevideo Convention from 1933. According to the Convention, a sovereign state should possess the following qualifications: (a) a permanent population, (b) a defined territory, (c) government, and (d) capacity to enter into relations with the other states(Turkey, International Islamic Conference, recently Germany)."

You'll clearly see that although not yet a member of the UN (so as Vatican City) it is a sovereign state filling out all te necessary criteria.

Wishing your continued constructive contributions, have a nice day.


[edit] California

I was in San Diego recently, didn't like it, went across to Tijuana and had great fun though. Don't like Southern California, some of the people there are incredibly vain, dull and niave.Bazzajf 11:54, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Babak

Do you know what Babak means? LOL 69.196.164.190

[edit] Oops

Sorry for goofing up your edits on Elazığ. I had been cleaning it up and got an edit conflict. I've re-added what you had, though the Catholic Encyclopedia says the ancient kings were Armenian, not Assyrian. --Awiseman 17:25, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Cool, and good point on the Kurdish source. --Awiseman 17:31, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 82.77.250.42 and Noua Dreaptă article

It looks like 82.77.250.42 is trying to vandalize the Noua Dreaptă article again. Bogdangiusca reverted him this time. Apparently, the little missive I left on 82.77.250.42's talk page about constructive NPOV efforts fell on deaf ears / blind eyes. Richwales 21:53, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Do you think it might be appropriate for someone to try to separate out the more contentious parts of the Noua Dreaptă article into a new section (possibly entitled "Controversy over Noua Dreaptă", or "Reputation of Noua Dreaptă") — and we could all be especially careful to seek NPOV in this portion of the article? Richwales 00:46, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] CFD "Designated terrorist organizations" underway

I thought you may be interested,

see here

Count Iblis 23:17, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DVD+R/W's RfA

Thank you for your support in my RfA, which ended with the result of (74/0/0). If there is anything I can help with feel free to ask. Also, if there is anything I am doing wrong, please point that out as well. I look forward to working with you in the future.

Highest regards, DVD+ R/W 01:35, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Thanks

Thanks for the info on 1RR. As a general rule I always prefer to discuss instead of reverting. Unfortunately, this guy simply refuses to discuss and reverts as a first resort. Thanks though.

So, any new votes you are involved in?--TigranTheGreat 05:31, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, I had forgotten to authenticate my email. The things I learn here every day, lol. What is your problem with tibet and what is your authority on tibetan history? My spouse is tibetan

[edit] Turks/Kurds

Sorry, Ive been busy with other things. I dont think I will "help out" with that article, but if you file a WP:RFM I will take it as a Medcom case. Regards, -Ste|vertigo 06:50, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mustafa Kemal Atatürk

You left me a message on my talk page, so if you see at last what I want to say please put your support on the Talk page of the relevant article in the favor of the move. Thanks. (Kertenkelebek 21:49, 17 June 2006 (UTC))

[edit] Pashtuns pictures needed oh so badly!

I see you're quite popular and appear to be omnipresent in wikipedia-land, but I'm gonna bug ya anyway. I did some minor edits at Pashtuns and was again struck by the lack of pictures. Man, we really need some before that page goes on the main page (dunno when that is but I'm just sayin'). I mean how about just putting the pictures up and give the guy's rationale for its usage and then if something goes wrong we'll deal with or something to that effect? Sure hope we can them up soon. US tied Italy and Ghana won. Just proves how unpredictable soccer is. Tombseye 22:00, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Links

this: The user that hasen't sign his/hers name is talking about User:Ruzgar's block and that it supports Ruzgar on the image to be displayed on the PKK article. Then this user says that if a Kurd was to do such action we would want an unlimited block for this user and about how the image has an point of view and readding the image makes you a vandalist. Then user recommends Ruzgar to be calm and not radical. Finally, says that not only the Kurds fight for their freedom but the Gavurs (The non-moslems, a racist word in Arabic/Turkish to the West) think they guard this.

denisutku: This user is saying; if in any matter that they are in the right and in need for help they shall contact denisutku for support. Ozgur Gerilla 01:16, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

this: is basically Ruzgar saying the image has no copywrite problem and asks these users to keep uploading the image to the article. If you need full translation feel free to ask me. Ozgur Gerilla 01:22, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Why have you vandalised the Bhumihar page?

I need an explanation. Oblige, please.

Agreed that it contained stupid tags but this page is sensitive and is vandalised by users hostile to the clan of people this article is about. I am protecting this page by vandal protect else please do something to ban this notorious user called User:Holywarrior. He has been doing such things to all the articles on influential or say 'upper' clans of the North Indian social hierarchy.

Thank you for the suggestion but I am unable to get it listed. I am a bit confused as I am new to the Wikipedia. Please list it on that page: a request. Thanks.

Can you tell me how to get this vandal User:Holywarrior banned?

[edit] Question about copyright

Hi Carnildo,

I was wondering, under what licence would this image have on the Commons? It says at the bottom of the page, Any use of this file must include "(C) Foley, Michael 2003/The Streets of Kabul", which gives me the idea that he gives people permission, so should I still contact him? Thanks in advance. —Khoikhoi 01:10, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

That sounds like a license of {{Attribution}}, but you probably still should contact him to make sure he lets people use it freely. --Carnildo 05:35, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Kochi

Well, he is partially correct. Kochi is not a metropolitian city as it does not meet the "4 million inhabitants" standard (Kochi has just a million and a half). There are only 5 cities in India that meet the standard. Kochi is, however, ranked as a second tier metro in India. The thing is that "metro" has no proper definition. I think User:Nichalp would be the right person to ask this question. -- thunderboltza.k.a.Deepu Joseph |TALK08:04, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tibet

Yep! I know I made a mistake. I reverted seconds before you left me the message. I realized that besides the TAR, there is also western parts of Sichuan, northwestern part of Yunnan, Qinghai, and southwestern part of Gansu. Sorry for the error!! --Heilme 09:18, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

You can't spell!! :P --Heilme 09:22, 18 June 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Turkic Nationalism

Well Turkic nationalists do make that claim about the Scythians and the Xiongnu but I thought I removed that passage. At best I might have edited it, but there is no way in the world I added it. Would you mind checking it was me who added it? I have no recollection of doing so at any rate and it is the sort of thing I try to remove. Lao Wai 16:10, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] KHOJALY POV

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khojali

check it out ... seems like more pov moving in ...

[edit] MONGOLS

Thank you for guarding against 1 frequent vandalist on this web. Lemonhead 18:01, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Anti-Hungarian

Why ask me? Name it whatever the wiki convention seems to be - anti-Magyar or variations on that theme are better, I guess, because they are more comprehensive. And, please, don't use it as a way to take things out of context and repeat the claims in Romanianization (many of which are taken out of context). I would also like to point out that, if you mean to analyse it from a historical perspective, to make note of what that history is, especially for Transylvania (for example, any references to the mythical "Maniu guards" that would have "targeted Magyars" after WWII would be unacceptable and surreal, even if some "respectable" sites rant at length about them). Also, please do not let it pass into text that minority of a minority groups such as the "National Council of Hungarians" have any say over the Democratic Union of Hungarians in Romania - any claims they make have relied on sensationalism. Btw: where did you get that first picture from? I mean, if a site does present exiting a locality as "anti-Hungarianism", then the site is obviously not well-intentioned. Dahn 19:52, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

I meant the one with the ribbon over the locality name. The first one you referenced. I noted since that it did not. As to the other pictures: I do not condone those actions in any way, but I would like to point out that some of them may be attributed to some Romanians' resentment of multi-culturality rather than specifically aimed at Hungarians (this is to say: even if those people are morons, not all of them might be the anti-Hungarian type of morons). Dahn 20:06, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
And just how is "The cyanide spill from the Romanian operated gold mine at Baia Mare (Nagy Banya) has spread to surrounding countries. Before the spill, the Tisza was described as one of the cleanest rivers in Europe." "anti-Hungarianism?" Dahn 20:08, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
You got mail.--Tēlex 20:04, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

I saw your new article. If you are going to expand it, check Anti-Hellenism (i.e. Anti-Greek sentiment). It is the most neutral one of the lot (OTOH Anti-Romanianism is the most POV).--Tēlex 20:11, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Also, check your e-mail again. --Tēlex 20:19, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Again, I'm sorry, It took ten minutes for me to notice it :-/ --Tēlex 20:46, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Khoi, you could have reverted to the right version ;-) --Tēlex 22:29, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Yunus Emre

I had seen the article, and I hadn't liked it very much. Truth be told, I had wanted wanted to clean it up, but hadn't done so partially out of laziness and partially out of fears of having to confront nationalist types (they tend to attach themselves to Turkish folk literature out here—you know, it being "folk" and all—and to leave Ottoman stuff—i.e., the stuff I tend to work on—more or less alone, because Ottoman stuff has essentially entirely dropped out of the curriculum and the public consciousness insofar as there is a tendency—slightly wrong, I believe—to imagine that Mustafa Kemal Atatürk/Kemal Atatürk overthrew the Ottoman Empire).

Anyhow, thanks for the heads-up reminder, 'cause Yunus Emre really is a fantastic writer/thinker/person (quite the equal of Jalal ad-Din Muhammad Rumi, to be honest) who deserves a damn good page, which I'll do my best over the coming days/weeks to take care of. Cheers. —Saposcat 21:07, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Asian Supremacy

You voted to delete the article Asian supremacy because you felt it was unverifiable. It is verifiable. The organization Goldsea supports Asian supremacy.--Dark Tichondrias 01:15, 19 June 2006 (UTC)


[edit] about userpage

I ust got back from out of town and took a look at it. It looks sweet! Thanks a lot Khoikoi. Afghan Historian 03:53, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What Vandalism?

What Vandalism? I am a friend of User:Ich and I called him at an inappropriate time, he said that, and I left it on his user page as a memento.

Um, ok. How about the talk page next time not to throw us all off. Yanksox (talk) 04:31, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Barney and Friends

I wasn't directing that comment to you. I must have been in the process of reverting the anonymous vandalism when you already corrected it. My bad. Handface 04:51, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] PJAK

Yakhi, please see PJAK and PKK - a user by name of Cool Cat is attempting to merge both articles together under false pretense that they are some organisation, but this is not true. PJAK is allied with PKK but is a separate and autonomous group. I have gone through his edits and he is anti-Kurd. You have not helped with the problem with Imperial78 and his anti-Khuzestan map, but please if you can help with this Cool Cat and his anti-Kurd behaviour. Thank you. Khorshid 07:02, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hey

I know you're always busy and all, but when you get time, check out this [4] its kinda suspicious, he has been calling me "azeri turk" and my edits as "azeri turk propoganda" [5], check it out! --K a s h Talk | email 10:36, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Who is "Mahmoud Afshar Yazdi"? His edits were not "legitimate", they were his POV and pure assumption of his which instead of discussing in the talk page he kept inserting in to the article which stopped me from editing it again. No worrys, I have asked an admin to block me hopefully because this is just insane and waste of my time. --K a s h Talk | email 08:24, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Semi-protect?

Hey, can you semi-protect the Armenian Genocide article just so that only registered users can edit the article? We're going through a big revert war.--MarshallBagramyan 16:22, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Hey, can you revert 194.141.39.2 (talk · contribs)'s latest vandalism (I've already given him a third warning). It's been overwritten by its sockpuppet master. It'll have to be done manually. --Tēlex 19:45, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

He did it again (although it's no longer vandalism, but a heavily POV disclaimer). --Tēlex 20:02, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
no problem, your efforts are always appreciated. --MarshallBagramyan 02:09, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] RfA thanks!

Thanks for voting!
Hello Khoikhoi/Archive 12, and thank you so much for voting in my recent RfA. I am pleased to inform you that it passed with a final tally of (119/1/3), into the WP:100, so I have now been cleared for adminship and will soon be soaring above the clouds. I was overjoyed, shocked, and humbled by the tally, and, most importantly, all the support. Thank you. If there is ever anything you need, you know where you can find me. Take care.

--Pilot|guy 22:33, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Regarding SC

That's a pity. He was pretty knowledgeble. Thanks for the email. Afghan Historian 02:00, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Aromanians

Thanks:). i got pissed off... it was so POVish, that i could not believe what i was reading! when i'll have more time, i will take a closer look on that article... i have personal reasons to do so. btw, i did not know that the Greek Wikipedia has an article about 'Κχοϊκχόι'... (u know, as some users say, the greek wik. is so weak, cause the greek users are trying to push their POV in the english one:p). Also, i had the chance to see that i had always pronounced your nick correctly:) --Hectorian 02:09, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Adios en hasta la vista baby...hmmm, i mean amigo. sorry but i first learnt this phrase from Terminator 2: Judgment Day, and u, as a Californian, know that Arnold Schwarzenegger isn't the best english-speaker ever...:) --Hectorian 03:26, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Hi. what happened to the 3RR? do u know why i cannot make an internal link about it? --Hectorian 00:05, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
lol! i do not mean u, my friend:) I tried to inform User:Mywayyy in case he/she doesn't know it, but i cannot make an internal link... [6]... --Hectorian 00:10, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Thanks! --Hectorian 00:15, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nizami

Hi if you have time, I can use some help with the .html and linking the references. Looks like there was an agreement finally.  :)


Hi I think for the spelling we agreed on the Britannica entery.

http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9055636?query=nezami&ct= in full Elyas Yusof Nezami Ganjavi , Nezami also spelled Nizami greatest romantic epic poet in Persian literature, who brought a colloquial and realistic style to the Persian epic.

So I guess to be consistent with Britannica, Nezami is good. I don't see a problem with the labor of Farhad though. --Ali doostzadeh 03:12, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Also sorry to bother you again, I fixed one of the links of the Iranica, but I am not good at referencing it. Also here is the wilson book:[7]. Thanks for all your good work in Wikipedia. --Ali doostzadeh 03:33, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the great help and effort. The Iranica article is: Encyclopedia Iranica, "Atabakan-e Adarbayjan", Saljuq rulers of Azerbaijan, 12th–13th, Luther, K. pp. 890-894.
The wilson book is quoted in the translation given of the haft paykar. --Ali doostzadeh 03:47, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

HI here is the references:

Encyclopedia Iranica, Ganja[8], C. EDMUND BOSWORTH

Encyclopedia Iranica, Haft Peykar[9], Francois de Blois

Encyclopedia Iranica, Eskandar-Nama of Nezami[10], Francois de Blois

As per Wilson's book, it is at the end of the article when we discuss Nezami's Haft Peykar. (The Seven Beauties) (1196). The English translation is from Wilson whose book I gave the Amazon link.

--Ali doostzadeh 04:00, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Also the following reference can be given when we discuss the Caucasian Albanianness of Shirin.

M.Shaginyan, “Studies/sketches about Nizami”, 1955/1981


Yep here it is:

The Haft paikar [engl.], Wilson, Charles Edward, London: Probsthain. 1924. (Probsthain's oriental series.).

HI, thanks for your excellent work. The labor of Farhad is part of the epic of Khusraw and Shirin.. I think it is fine really o have it and I don't see any reason to put it in a separate space. It actually is a good translation. --Ali doostzadeh 04:42, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Yep, the reason was we do not need two Nizami articles on his biography. Also is the tag due to the long poem ? ALso thanks for your work again. --Ali doostzadeh 06:56, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Okay I think the best way to get rid of the messiness is to shorten the summary of khusraw o shirin. what do you think? --Ali doostzadeh 07:35, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] PJAK

I see your point about not calling others "anti" this or that, though I see a bias in trying to merge the two articles. I cannot provide a reference for something that is not true or does not exist. This is as if someone were to propose merging for instance "Communist Party of United States" with "Democratic Party of United States" because someone is alleging that Democratic Party is the political wing. It is stupid and everyone knows is not true, but cannot be proven or disproven, much like the existence of God. It is the same situation here. PJAK is a Iranian Kurdish guerrilla group based in Iraq that has a relationship with PKK, but they are not the same organisation. It is too silly to suggest that a guerrilla group like PJAK is a "political wing" of PKK. Also PKK has since abandoned idea of Pan-Kurdish state and focuses only on Turkey whereas PJAK unofficially has a vision of a future Kurdish Republic from Turkey to Iran (Kurdish regions). Officially PJAK struggles for strong federalism in Iran. There are links on the page to news articles describing PJAK and (if you can read Persian or Sorani) there is also PJAK's official web site with much information. Khorshid 03:23, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, but see (from your link), "Security experts say PJAK is an Iranian wing of the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK)". If I am correct in recalling, there were also "security experts" who stated and who were very certain that there were "weapons of mass destruction" in Iraq. :) What is kind of funny is that PJAK is Maoist but they still would like support from Mr. Bush! How does that work you think? Khorshid 08:34, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: The Ottoman text on Ottoman Empire

That anon's change is a bit more right than wrong, but it's not really a necessary change. All he or she did was to remove the vowel-marking diacritics that showed an "a" on "âliye" and an "o" on "osmâniye" (but for some reason he or she decided not to remove the vowel-marking diacritic that showed "i" at the end of "devlet" to make "devlet-i"). The changes are more right than wrong insofar as those diacritics were very rarely used in Ottoman Turkish (just as they are very little used in Persian to this day), but the name was actually correct already. Actually, now it's ever so slightly wrong due to inconsistency: one diacritic is left there, but the others are removed. —Saposcat 04:14, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and got rid of the inconsistency by changing "دولتِ" (devlet-i) to "دولت" (devlet). Thanks for bringing the thing to my attention. Cheers. —Saposcat 04:26, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DO NOT REMOVE WARNINGS!!!!

Hehe jk. You beat me to it [11]. =D AmiDaniel (talk) 05:06, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Transylavania in Romani

Hi! It is Ardyalo, sometimes Transilvaniya. I dropped the names in the articles Transylvania and List_of_European_regions_with_alternative_names#T. All the best, Desiphral देसीफ्राल 10:26, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Just individuals, the same as for other writing systems. In the meantime I improved the article Romani writing systems to clarify some facts. I'd like to ask you: does it sound POV favourable to Devanagari? I did not include the last part of the source article from external links about Devanagari. I don't know if it is good or bad. What do you think? Desiphral देसीफ्राल 13:07, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
I see, thanks, Desiphral देसीफ्राल 10:49, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image Tagging for Image:Azer1.jpg

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[edit] Ismail I

As far as I know he was born in the state of Ak-koyunlu. Not a big deal, really, but for the sake of accuracy I think its better just to refer to the city or province, rather than a state. Grandmaster 19:25, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

He was the Shah of Iran but not born in Iran? Look there is national identity and then their is national entity. When someone was born in Iran during Arab occupaiont how is the historical description of birth place formatted. We need consistancy. We can not have a false answer from two totally correct premises. I have no proboem with Iranian Azarbaijan, but I do have a problem in inproper terminology of birth places. I have even spoke to user:Tajik and discussed by change on the talk page. I guess we are all going to have to talk about how to classify birth places. NIzami was born in what was Iran and the presedent-day Reoublic of Azarbiajna. I do not see why some users have to be so difficult or aggressive over such a change. 69.196.164.190

[edit] Re: Hemşin

Barev!

I don't think that this recent anon edit should be taken seriously. I think it was just another case of "on-the-fly" vandalism. I think the way it is now with your partial revert is just fine, though the vandalim on the talk page should be removed. Kenats't, Clevelander 20:49, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree, a source should be added (which I will do immediately after I'm finished typing this). Actually Hamshenis receives more hits than its alternative English name, Hemshinlis. -- Clevelander 21:01, 20 June 2006 (UTC).
Not really. -- Clevelander 21:05, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] AfDs

Hi there, again. Take a look at 3 AfDs going on: I hope that you care enough to keep these articles which are very informative especially to those interested in geography or minority languages. [[12]] [[13]] [[14]]

Thanks, Carlos Carlossuarez46 21:04, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the follow-up. Is it boiling hot where you are? It's hell-a-hot in the Bay Area. Also, another question, do you speak either Armenian or Greek -- I am trying to learn both and was wondering if you could recommend someplace to buy some easy reading material (geared to say 3rd graders) in either language in California. Carlossuarez46 00:48, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Azeri pictures

Yikes! that's a lot of pictures! Hmm, I dunno where to put them. Shall we replace the famous Azeris with the regular folks? I just don't know. Great call with the 3 old guys in the hats though. Really makes the article look professional. I think the mosque would be cool as well the displaced family maybe. Now why can't we have pictures like this for the Pashtuns too? ;) Say, I'm a little worried as I noticed some of the copyright requests go wayyyyyy back. These guys aren't going to backlog the Pashtun pictures for a year are they? That would suck. Ciao. Tombseye 04:31, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Yeah problem is that I don't know which pictures to replace. I'm thinking the general and writer. both black and white pictures and not really essential. Tombseye 05:20, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Word. Man, this page has taken a lot more time and effort than the last couple of times. Must be all the controversy that makes precise wording so important to everyone. Oh well. Tombseye 05:24, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Hey where's that mosque from and what is it called? Might be kind of important to note. Also, the refugees picture is from where and how do we know it's of Azeri refugees. I'm only asking because people will ask given the close scrutiny this article is getting. Oh agony, agony. Tombseye 05:28, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Man, that refugee picture has controversy written all over it. Yeah, I'll axe GM. He's gotta know. Probably walks past it everyday or something. ;) Tombseye 05:31, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Oh this one with the sad Mom and kids: [15]. Wow, what a downer. Thanks dude, now we're going to have a bunch of crying readers. ;) Tombseye 05:35, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Yeah all that stuff is sad to see. People are such wankers to each other. Damn British terminology, thought I'd be rid of it by now! Tombseye 05:39, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Sure did. funny thing about living in another country is you develop empathy for the people there. So when England plays soccer I now root for them, well after the US of course. Can't believe those wankers couldn't beat the Swedes. Doh, did it again! Tombseye 05:42, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Nah, never been to Iran or Azerbaijan. I'm thinking of taking Russian language classes this fall so that I can go to all the old Soviet countries and Eastern Europe and talk to them in an imperialist language with a lot of bad history. I'm hoping it'll endear me into the local cultures and help me pick up chicks! Tombseye 05:56, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Oh the Moldovan thing. I had a flatmate who was Moldovan and he calls his language and nationality Moldovan. He mentioned the Romanians as 'close', but didn't say he was a Romanian really. Romanian chick I knew didn't think it was a big deal one way or another. Yeah those wacky Turks sure do get around! I figure I'll check out all the unusual peoples like the Gypsies and Gagauz. Hey, your Israel trip is coming up right? You gotta go hang with the obscure people there. Look for the recent arrivals from the former Soviet Union as I hear they are often stand out. Also, check out the Druze, who'll probably be wondering why some American guy is talking to them, but what the hell. Maybe you can eat some Bedouin food, preferably something that would make a lot of folks in the US puke. Talk about great war stories... Tombseye 06:13, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Hi Khoikhoi. Can we use promotional pictures from the website of Aziza Mustafazadeh [16]? Such as [17] or [18] As far as I know there's a special tag that allows the use of such images. Grandmaster 06:36, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Help

Hallo Khoikhoi, I almost finished an article about Borgo, an ancient quarter of Rome. If you have time and lust, could you please have a look on it and tell me if I did something wrong? But maybe it would take less time to say what I did right... ;-)

Thanks a lot,

alex2006 05:39, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Hallo Khoikhoi,
many thanks for your help and compliments! Ehmm, actually you are right, I must still insert the page numbers which belong to that book. :-(
About DYK, I don't know. When I started to write this voice (about one month ago, I think), it was just a nano-stub with a single sentence and the logo...I will try to apply anyway! The problem now is that Rome has 22 Rioni: I fear that I will be forced to write 21 articles ;-)
Thanks again,
greetings from the (tropical) rainy Europe
alex2006 09:54, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Good morning Khoikhoi,
actually, the answer to my request for DYK has been the fastest in history. The article is too old, someone said about two minutes after the submission, so: "Adios, amigo!" (I am sure that as californian you understand spanish quite well... I studied it watching the movies of Sergio Leone and the TV-series of Zorro. ;-) ). So, I applied it as a good article... and now, wait and see!
Of course, before I have been fixing the notes. Now it should be pretty stable.
Muchas Gracias, Hasta luego,
alex2006 12:47, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wali Khan

Hiya Khoik, I'd like your comments on my Wali Khan article..its already been given good article status and I had a bruising peer review so I think I've sorted out some of the bugs. I'd appreciate your opinion on how it looks and reads.

Thanks

--Zak 12:55, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Hi thanks for the reply..what do you mean about the pictures? I'm contacting Tony right now ..will update you on the article soon!

thanks again --Zak 17:36, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Public domain image modification

Sunset at South Street Seaport, Manhattan
Sunset at South Street Seaport, Manhattan

Do you know if I need to add additional copyright information when I modify (or touch-up) a public domain image. Like these two;

original
original
modified
modified

.

Thanks! DeliDumrul 00:39, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

What I really wanted to ask was if I needed to release a copyright for the modifications I made on the image, or is it OK to leave the licensing as it is with no additional licensing or copyright info. In addition, is there a template for touch-ups?
It's probably a really old drawing, I guess the artist just liked it with gold tones. You know, the other name of "Halic" is Golden Horn. That might have inspired him. Anyways, I just tried to restore it to its original colors. I'll try to use that image you like. Cheers! DeliDumrul 04:23, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
It must be the long day's dizziness that handicapped my sense of humor :) Here is a sunset picture I took at Southstreet Seaport, Manhattan. DeliDumrul 04:37, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
I found somewhere else to use your favorite picture :) Check this out. DeliDumrul 04:53, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Regarding Macedonism‎

Any reason why you are siding with Bulgarians having two sections, and Macedonians having only one, after asking FF repeatedly about what the format should be? [19], [20], [21], for which he answer he doesn't care, or "lets not get ridiculous", in other words, no explanation has been provided --Cigor 03:26, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

What two sections? There is the statement of the points, support and oppose.   /FunkyFly.talk_  03:27, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Not true. There are Claims (Bulgarian view), Support (Macedonian view), and Criticism (Bulgarian view, again). The whole article is an attack page to make being Macedonian represent as being a member of some political party. --Cigor 03:37, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
And what constructive suggestions have you extended to improving the neutrality of the claims?   /FunkyFly.talk_ 
But don't you think, it looks not quite encyclopedic as is now - having two Bulgarian statements against each Macedonian one? Cheers. --Cigor 03:41, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Sure, why not add some original research from the Macedonian side to balance it out. As it was said, suggest improvements to the claims then.   /FunkyFly.talk_  03:42, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
What exactly are you talking about? I provided reference about each of my claim, unlike your claims? --Cigor 03:45, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Yes yes, references are fine, but the conclusions are not obvious, and are original. And by "claims" I mean the original 6 points, not the support or criticism.   /FunkyFly.talk_  03:47, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't see what Moldovenism have to do with anything. --Cigor 03:48, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't see how the new version is better. All you did is you erased most of my answers and kept his. Please tell me what am I missing. --Cigor 03:52, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
You're not missing, rather you have too much of, and that is original research.   /FunkyFly.talk_  04:13, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] about Pamuk

Hi khoikhoi, about the hardtalk interview of Pamuk, he not once mentions the word genocide and he clearly states that what he is trying to highlight is freedom of speech issues in Turkey. The way I interpreted it is that he brought taboo subjects such as the Armenians and the Kurds into the fore to provoke a reaction in order to prove his point! What do you think? lutherian 05:21, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Hi again Khoikhoi, pls go ahead and add it if you wish although I would point out that if he really believe it was a genocide he would mention it because, as you very well know, there is a world of a difference between calling such an event a genocide and calling it a massacre. Also, giving a figure of 1 million seems arbitrary, most Armenians and the countries that agree with them systematically quote a figure of 1.5 millinon so it seems awkward that this guy comes up with 1 million as if he knows something that others dont.
As for the NYTimes article I dont know if it is a minority or majority that want reparations in whatever shape or form but the way I see it is that pressuring Turkey to accept this is simply a means to an end which in this case would be reparations. Its just natural that it be like that, thats at least what history shows us. Cheers lutherian 05:26, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The people of Machakhel call "Machakhel"

Hi Khoikhoi. Mr. Zeyrek is a Turkish historian, who is the author of the book: Ajaristan and Ajars. Dear Khoikhoi, I come from Machakhel. All of the people of Machakhel and the people of Artvin use "Machakhel" in Turkish spelling. I can write many web sites, foundations,publications which use Machakhel. Nobody uses Machakhel-i, except a few person! Morover the lower Machakhel in Ajaristan is called Machakhel-a, not Machakhel-i! As a result, Machakhel-i is a some marginal kartvelian's usage.

  • If Macahel refers Mr. Zeyrek to us, all is very clear in that case. Mr. Zeyrek says the Adjars (he denies to write Adjarians and Adjara) are Turks or Kipchak Turks. Belong to Zeyrek Adjars are non-Georgian people and the Adjarians’ ancestors are Kipchaks. This historical theory is very pathetic (!), but not true. Machakheli is a small historical region, before Ottoman rule it was also a historical region. The valley is called as Machakhela, where leis this historical region, but Machakhela is not the name of historical region. Of course today exits a region in Adjara which is called as Machakheli , but Turkish part of historical Macakheli is named as Camili. The people in the Camili, pronounces Machakhel in Turkish, but Machakheli in Georgian. Suffix –i is a problem in Turkish, not in Georgian language. Gagimarjos!--SidE 19:48, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Matthias Corvinus

Although, as I have said on other occasions, Kolosvar as a "former name" in a Latin-using monarchy is a bit of a misnomer, I have no particular issue with that. Note, however, that the user was removing references to his Vlach ancestry (and I believe these were voiced as neutrally as possible - see final section). I notice that the IP has been doing that type of vandalism on several occasions (check his history). I'll say it qualifies for revert on sight. Dahn 22:27, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Again, there is no major problem with reformulating the city's name, and the issue is not connected with Mathias himself (I believe this issue would be connected with the Gdansk/Danzig one, only the fact is that the Hungarian names were never official until 1848, and the Latin versions tended to vary considerably; the Romanian name first seemed like a good guideline, but I'm not married to it). I believe this is obvious vandalism as well (and am not going to hide myself if reported), not only because it is erasing valid information, but also because it destroys the unitary character of the text: the IP bothered to erase it there (without discussing it, of course), but did not even notice that it came up again in the text - making the second mention seem "suspended" (note that I have made it clear I personaly do not invest in his image "as a Romanian" - but I believe it is to be mentioned in the form I had placed in the text, especially since it establishes the reason for his image in Ro nationalism, which is relevant info in itself). I also believe there are countless precedents where such edits by IPs have been reverted on sight, no matter how many 3RRs in a row were broken. Dahn 22:50, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
I see you want a source for that, Please revert: check out the article for his father John Hunyadi, where the Vlach ancestry is even mentioned by Britannica. It is also referenced by countless sources out there, and has been the grain of Romanian exaggerations ever since.Dahn 22:52, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
No. The name of the city varied in Medieval Latin ("Napoca" was never its name after the Roman departure, until Ceausescu recycled it); I think it used Claudiopolis or Kuluswar and some other variations (someone listed them on Talk:John Hunyadi) - this is, of course, Latin as used in the Kingdom of Hungary. Again, the name is not the problem, and your previous version was ok, and not questioned by me (lest for the quotation, which I find highly unnecessary). Btw, your version now also contains a duplication of a verb.
What I had meant by "Romanian exaggerations" is described in the last section of the Matthias article: the fact that Romanian nationalism has tended to take his origin out of context, to give it a relevancy which it could never have had, and to ignore the fact that he battled with the Wallachians and Moldavians like there was no tommorrow (add to this that the Wallachians and Moldavians were battling each other at the time). See the reference to Romania's national anthem, for example, and note that I had tried to remain as neutral as possible (in fact, I tend to favour a moderate Hungarian POV, that it is not nmy goal to pass my views on wikipedia). Dahn 01:57, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hungarian noticeboard

Thanks for the design of the page. We will use it! :) Zello 00:34, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] the capital of Dagestan

  • Yes, Master Khoikhoi, there is a compromise. We start to write Khoikho (without –i), than we may write all Georgian words without –i, like so Pot, Svanet, Saakashvil, Zugdid etc. Because of a user desire to write all Georgian words in this form. For example no one says “minda tskal” (I want water), but doesn’t matter, compromise is important only in this case . Compromise is everything, all the rest is nothing. Let’s keep Machakhlistskal, because this river in Dagestan and flows through Makhachkala. Yours sincerely…--SidE 07:05, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
Hi Khoikhoi. I’ll try to clarify things further here. The Machakheli valley is divided between Georgia and Turkey. In Georgia, it is called Machakheli (original name) or Machakhela (diminutive form). The Turkish part has officially been renamed into Camili, but the locals still use Machakheli/Macaheli when speaking Georgian and Machakhel/Macahel when speaking Turkish. Since the placename itself is Georgian, we should obviously keep a Georgian spelling with a suffix –i, a solution on which SidE insists. Btw, both Macahel and SidE are Georgian-speakers from Turkey, but the former seems to be seriously affected by the quasi-scholars like Zeyrek. Kober 09:13, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
P.S. Here are some photos from the Machakheli valley [22]. This website doesn’t provide any info about the copyright status and I hesitate to upload these images to wiki.

[edit] Tip

Hey there. Thank you for the tip. Actually I just recently got aware of the vast amount templates - and I had great use of the overview from your userpage. Keep up the good work! Cheers Bertilvidet 09:05, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Amazing

these people continue to amaze me. even when we provide citations we are accused of making "false citations" and then you know what they do, they put in an actual false citation of their own! PJAK/PKK have never been described or describe themselves as "Marxist-Leninist" and this "behemoth" person changes it all to "Marxist-Leninist"! Who are these people and what planet did they come from?! Khorshid 09:26, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Deleting comments from talk

I've had enough! :NikoSilver: 10:31, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Compromise?

I believe you know that is not compromise, and doesn't have anything to do with the discussion in hand. Your addition is the only non-english name in the page right now. Also, the compromise was already done with removing the Turkish alphabet version. I'm sure you would agree with me on second thought, thanks! DeliDumrul 17:43, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, the naming convention says you either put all the other names in a separate place or keep them altogether in the first line. In Istanbul's case it's not practical to keep them in the first line or even as a section of the main article. I don't know if other articles on Turkish cities with just a Turkish and a Greek name keep both names in main line, but I've checked a couple of examples by Telex, and saw that there is only two names to the city and it's appropriate to keep both of them at the first line. After all, this shouldn't be about compromise, because we're just a handful of people editing these pages whereas Wikipedia's vision is to serve the world. We have to keep it as it should be, rather then keeping each other pleased with the result. (and we have such a beautiful weather here today, which is very rare. so, cheers!) DeliDumrul 17:57, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

You know I'm fairly new in editing, and I wanna keep it nice and calm. All I'm saying is that, it's what the naming convention suggests. But, now that I've seen some other individual's aproach, I see you are just trying to mediate. I still beieve it shouldn't be about compromise though.. Anyways, I'm trying to spend less time on these kind of things. DeliDumrul 18:12, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

And by the way, what do you mean when you say ..you guys don't want.. ? I'm not here on behalf of anybody or any entity, just like everybody else editing WP should not be either. DeliDumrul 18:16, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Who gives a shit about Istanbul

Nobody actually! Khoikhoi, Ill explain this to you as simple as possible so you understand it once and for all. Istanbul was created by Greeks, was Greek for 1000+ years and is still significant for both Greeks and Christianity. So as you understand the Greek name should be included. What makes it even more neccessary is the fact that some guys like you persist on adding Turkish names on Greek cities or islands that have little or no relevance with Turkey apart from tha fact that they were conquered for 300-400 years. So what?? Lots of places around the world have been periodically conquered by various civilizations. Are we gonna add all the names these places used to be called?? Alexandroupoli or Simi or or or means little in the mind of the average Turk. It is totally unacceptable to add Turkish names on Greek cities and not inlcude the Greek name in Istanbul article specificaly! So i ll keep reverting for like forever. Thank you.Mywayyy 17:53, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

According to your (Mywayyy's) contributions list, you have been editing other articles more than (if any) contributing additional information to Wikipedia. I think it is beneficiary for all of us to spend more time on improving the encylopedia rather than fighting with each other. Keep in mind that people usually first use the discussion page then make edits, which is the correct way of doing it. DeliDumrul 18:05, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Appreciate this??

No! If you want to be fair you should add the Greek name at the TOP of the article just like the place were you add it on Alexandroupoli article. Isnt that fair? Why dont you do it? Lets place a bet and see if its gonna stay there for more like 5 hours.Mywayyy 18:00, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Hey Khoikhoi, just to be on the safe side, I take it your phrase "I appreciate your threats" on Mywayyy's talkpage wasn't directed at my remark above it, was it? Because the context makes it look as if it could be read like that. If there was some misunderstanding, let me know. Just for the record, I don't strongly care about what exact solution is chosen for the Istanbul article. Take care, Fut.Perf. ☼ 20:51, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I thought I'd never live to see the day

When you are accused of being too pro-Turkish. if conquest of a place for 300-400 years is insufficient then I suppose WP should rename the New York article to Nieuw Amsterdam! LOL Carlossuarez46 18:11, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lets find a solution here shall we??

Khoikhoi, I appreciate your effords in trying to preserv Greek names on various articles. I dont think i am unreasonable and i defenately dont like this revert-war. Of course the world is not revolving around Istanbul but thats not the point. The point is that if someone wants to be fair enough he should add the Greek name AT THE TOP of this article as he does at the Xanthi or Alexandroupoli article. I have a proposition to make: Why dont we add the Turkish name on those articles not at the TOP, but somewhere IN the article itself (just like in Istanbul article? What do you think of that?Mywayyy 03:37, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, first of all i m very pleased that we finally share some common grounds here:) Actually I was never very happy with the fact to add foreign names AT THE TOP of an article, so feel free to erase any Greek naming on Turkish articles as long as you add the name somewhere in the article (preferably at the start). So i believe that we should also do that for Xanthi and Alexandroupoli where there is a Muslim minority there.Agreed?:)Mywayyy 03:49, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I would not say sizeable Turkish population because the Greek Government, right or wrong, does not recognize the term Turkish; only Muslim. So i think it should be something like this on the first paragraph: Alexandroupoli is called (whatever is called...) in Turkish Language and similarly Istanbul is called Κωνσταντινουπολη in Greek. I think thats pretty ok. I will do it myslef on both Xanthi and Alexandroupoli articles. But i want from you to go to Istanbul article personally and add in a similar manner at the first paragraph the Greek name. I think that will solve the whole issue once and for all:)) OK Khoikhoi?Mywayyy 04:09, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

I believe it should go at the first paragraph as a separate sentence in Istanbul article. I will also add it at the first paragraph on both Alexandroupoli and Xanthi. Regarding Thasos and Tilos I dont think there is a Muslim Minority over there (correct me if i m wrong). Generally you will agree we should add other names in places where there is a significant reason to do that. I agree both Xanthi and Alexandroupoli should have Turkish names but i m not sure about the islands you mentioned. Now regarding your fears that they might not accept it, remember please that this solution is only going to work if we do the same things on both Greek and Turkish articles. Frankly if they start erasing the Greek name even in that form, well i think you will agree, we should also remove Turkish names from the Greek articles.But I believe it should work.Mywayyy 04:30, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Well thats why I said that the correct thing to do from my point of view is to add names where there is either a Minority or there are significant hostorical and cultural reasons/influences to do that.Ok I agree Tilos and Thasos used to be under the Ottoman rule but so was Athens and Larissa and around 1000 or more Greek cities. Do we need to add the Turkish names there too? See what i mean? Tricky. So for a start lets focus on Xanthi and Alexandroupoli due to the fact that there is a Muslim Minority there. Now I dont want to go to square one either but if someone erases the Greek name from Istanbul dont you think I should erase the Turkish name from Xanthi and Alexandroupoli? Isnt that at least fare? I dont want to do it trust me, but there is no option its just unacceptable plus unfair. So i rely to you Khoikhoi that nobody erases the Greek name from Istanbul. OK mate?:))Mywayyy 05:04, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] nice picture

That's a beautiful picture there. Ideogram 04:07, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] insults

i am not happy to be involved in this type of cheap talk but from the day I have come to that article I have been subjected to continoues harrasment by fadix and Thoth just like half a dozen other contributers. apart from his all other uncivil words and endless copy pastes this is the 5th time he calls us klingon. Enough is enough... anyway from now on I will not feed the troll. maybe it is time for me to take a break too... sorry for this. thanks for the good will.neurobio 12:36, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Klingon is as Klingon does...lol --THOTH 13:49, 24 June 2006 (UTC)