Talk:Khovd Province

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[edit] Population

User 128.253.117.85! You have posted this: "There are also many Uyghurs living in Khovd. Originally this aimaq, as well as Bayan Olgiy to the west were part of Chinese Turkistan, and not Mongolia."

Many Uyghurs is not any number or percent, it looks like your private opinion, and you are trying use your private POV as argument for the political declaration: Two aimags (not aimaqs) - Bayan-Ölgii (not Bayan Olgiy) and Khovd - are not Mongolia part, but they are the Chinese Turkistan part.

This declarations are not correct and can not be placed in WP, in WP is avaliable Neutral point of view (NPOV) only.

Bogomolov.PL 06:12, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Are there any sources that there are any autokhtone Uighurs in Mongolia? There are Kazakhs in Bayan-Olgii and maybe Khovd, but afaik no Uighurs.
Second parts of Khovd and Bayan-Olgii may have been part of Xinjiang, but not of "Chinese Turkestan". Yaan 08:28, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
I don't know such kind of sources, all Mongolia autokhtone population has nomad roots, but uyghurs are not nomads, I guess. Separatists in Xinjiang are Uyghurs, but nobody knows uyghur separatists in Mongolia. Bogomolov.PL 09:29, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
I wouldn't really be surprised to find some ethnic Uyghurs in the area, their primary settlement area being in neighbouring Xinjiang. But of course that still means we need sources before we can declare them to be "many".
At the time of the Qing Dynasty, Bayan-Ölgii and parts of Khovd did indeed not belong to Outer Mongolia, but to Turkestan. My best guess is that the IP was trying to allude to this fact, but unfortunately the result was rather inaccurate and misleading. --Latebird 09:47, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
As you can see
Image:Qing china .jpg
Qing China in 1892
Nothern part (Dzungaria) of actual Xinjiang was Mongolia (not Outer or Inner, they was not divided) part Bogomolov.PL 10:50, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
The problem is that Xinjiang is an administrative unit, and all one needs to establish whether Khovd is/was part of it is a map or an account on who rules/ruled the area. Turkistan is just some imaginary concept, and everyone feels free to define it as big as he wants. there once was a Uighur population, but again that doesn't mean there is one now. Yaan 11:49, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
Turkistan (Turkestan) conception is: all lands populated with Turk peoples is Turkistan, so Kazakh population in two western aimags makes possible clame as East Turkistan part. But East Turkistan has political sense - it is name of the territory with islamic Uyghur rebels, where they want islamic national state creation. It is very probleme point for Chinese and East Turkistan outspreading to Mongolian territory can be enterpreted as
1. Uyghur pretensions to unite this territories with future islamic country
2. Chinese pretensions with logic: East Turkistan is Chinese, Khovd and Olgii are East Turkistan parts and so China parts.
That is why I don't like East Turkistan probleme diskussions in WP. Bogomolov.PL 12:27, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Oops, Turkestan is just a geographical region? Then it really doesn't make sense to mention it here. --Latebird 19:45, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

    • The Manchurian Khaan organised the nowadays territory of Bayan-Olgii and western parts of nowadyas Kobdo and Uvs aimags (populated by non-Khalha ethnic groups) into the Kobdo Territory within Khalha or Outer Mongolia. He settled there the Oirats who abandoned the Jungarian Khanate and Kalmykia and submitted to the Qing Empire. The Kobdo Territory comprised in itself the aimag of Unen Zorigtu Khan and of Toegs Kuleg Dalai Khan, collectively called the Two Derbet (Oirat) aimags--Дөрвөд хоёр аймаг. Thus Bayan-Olgii was populated by the Oirat-Urianhai until the 1940s when the Choibalsan's govt deported them to Kobdo aimag so that the Kazakhs would be able to build their ethnic aimag--Bayan-Olgii. Some of the western territories of former Zasagtu Khan aimag were integrated into Kobdo and Uvs aimag. Thus, the eastern soums of these aimags are still populated by Khalha people.
    • The Uigurs have long been expelled from Mongolia by the Kirghiz. The Khoton (Hotan) ethnic group in Uvs aimag, who are integrated into the Oirat culture, descended from Uigurs captured by the Oirats in the 17th century. Gantuya eng 18:35, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Kobdo

Kobdo is the city traditional name (city exists since 1685), but aimag was Khovd (actual city name). Kobdo was in use on Russian maps since 1970's. In official documents Mongolian officials used Kobdo in Russian and Khovd in English (in 1980's). In Russian WP aimag is Kobdo Bogomolov.PL 09:29, 18 May 2007 (UTC)