Talk:Khatri

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article incorporates text from the Encyclopædia Britannica Eleventh Edition, now in the public domain.

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Khatri article.
Article policies
WikiProject_India This article is within the scope of WikiProject India, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of India-related topics. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page.
B This article has been rated as B-Class on the quality scale. (add comments)
This article is maintained by the Punjab (India) workgroup.
More information about this article...

/archive1



Contents

[edit] This is getting ridiculous, SERIOUSLY

"In Hinduism, the Asura (Sanskrit: असुर) are a group of power-seeking deities, sometimes misleadingly referred to as demons. They were opposed to the devas. "

Khatri's and Asura's? Get real. The fact is that this article is now no longer being disputed, there is enough evidence here to conclude Ksatriya/Khatri equivalence. None of the evidence provided has been successfully refuted or counter-citated. Put this dispute to rest; lock the article for a while and BAN vandals. Seriously - I'm getting sick and tired of all these people that change the article without providing any evidence whatsoever. Seriousy..

I agree the article has been victim of disruptive activities.All of us must analyse facts only.Bad faith editors,who seek propaganda through wikipedia articles should be banned.Holy -- + -- Warrior 09:57, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] In Desperate Need of Help

I have not committed any act of vandalism yet i was banned by user:Can't sleep, clown will eat me for "repeated acts of vandalism". I have not gotten back my right to edit, and I would like some explanation/justice (i tried to appeal but it was futile). user:Ragib also banned me for vandalism (only 1 act, admittedly, i commited (out of frustration). Both bans were without warning.

[edit] Please PROVIDE EVIDENCE OR REFUTE BEFORE MAKING CHANGES

No one has refuted or provided other evidence AGAINST the evidence that supports ksatriya/khatri linkage. PLEASE do not blatently make changes without any evidence/refutation - this is vandalism and i encourage any honest person to refer vandal usernames to admins.


[edit] Moderator is no Special Admin

While you guys are having a revert war, I wish to get one thing perfectly straight. Why do you expect Moderator to do everything for you? Is it because of his username. You need to get one thing very clear, as far as I know, Moderator3000 is not an admin, he has no powers the rest of us don't have and he may not have full knowledge of Wikipedia policies. I suggest you ask User:Nichalp, or User:Gurubrahma, who are respected admins. Here's a list of Indian Admins. Nobleeagle (Talk) 08:44, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

It has shown what a name can achieve.I am thinking of having Administrator2000 as my ID.surely people will respect me.Holywarrior 09:37, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
Respect has to be earned. Using titles does not gain you respect here. =Nichalp «Talk»= 06:01, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
Don't bet on it. "Moderator3000" has been banned indefinitely for his confusing and misleading username. That's not the way to go. --Cyde↔Weys 06:02, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Prominent historical figures

Article on Bedi clan has been created.

The following text regarding has been restored. It is quite significant.

Many prominent historical figures have emerged from the Khatri. All ten Sikh Gurus were Khatri, belonging to the Bedi, Trehan, Bhalla and Sodhi subcastes. Raja Todar Mal was a Tandon Khatri who codified the revenue collection system as Revenue Minister for Akbar. Haqiqat Rai was a Puri Khatri whose martyrdom was celebrated on Basant Panchami in Lahore until independence. Hari Singh Nalwa, an Uppal Khatri, was a prominent general under Maharaja Ranjit Singh. The father and son pair of the Diwans Sawan Mal and Mul Raj Chopra were successive governors of Multan under Ranjit Singh. The former instituted vast improvement in agriculture, while the latter was instrumental in leading the revolt against the British to prevent the annexation of the Sikh kingdom into the East India Company territory.

--ISKapoor 22:05, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Please be civil

Please be civil. In a discussion people will have differing views. Please respect that and try and potray your viewpoint in a cogent and mature manner. All articles should conform to the neutral point of view, and not have a pro- or anti- bias. Please also do not indulge in name calling. See Wikipedia:No personal attacks. Wikipedia policy states that articles contributed should not be original research. To include material here, please cite credible sources. Thank you, =Nichalp «Talk»= 06:05, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Please stop messing with this page....

MODERATOR AND SYSTEM ADMIN........PLEASE UNDERSTAND, THERE HAVE BEEN PEOPLE OF NON-KHATRI ORIGIN MAKING EDITS AND COMMENTING OUT FACTUAL INFORMATION ABOUT KHATRIS..........WHICH WE WILL NOT APPROVE OF..........THESE PEOPLE NEED TO BE BANNED FROM COMING TO THIS PAGE AND MAKING EDITS.....I WILL PROVIDE YOU IP ADDRESSES IF YOU NEED THEM...

THANKS, JAY3 (A TRUE KHATRI/KSHATRIYA)

[edit] Administrators

Hello, there seems to have been some confusion over who is and who is not an administrator here. To check whether or not someone is an admin, type their username in Special:Listusers. If "sysop" appears next to their username, then they are an admin. If it does not, they are not. (example) Prodego talk 00:41, 20 June 2006 (UTC)


[edit] I CAN DO THIS ALL DAY....

I CAN KEEP CHANGING THE PAGE BACK TO THE WAY IT SHOULD BE ALL DAY ALL NIGHT....NO PROBLEM

.......YOU HEAR ME """ONESTONE"""....QUIT MESSING WITH THE PAGE

-JAY3

You belong in a mental institution. Onestone.


ACTUALLY ONESTONE, I AM IN A MENTAL INSTITUTION.........HAHAHAH!.....I WRITE ALL MY INFORMATION FROM MY ASYLUM CELL....

-JAY3


[edit] Problem with edits by 156.80.102.158

The aryan invasion theory etc. belongs elsewhere. This article is about the Khatris, based on well-known documented facts.

I have seem claims of people claiming to be superior because they came from elsewhere or have a lighter colored skin. These views have no place in this article. The following are not appropriate.

were scattered in the northern areas of Afghanistan and southern Tajikistan (in ancient times these areas were known as Bactria and Sogdiana.
All Kshatriya/Khatris and Brahmins are descendants of Aryan people originating in Central Asia (related to Iranian Aryan tribes of Persia/Iran). They migrated/invaded the Indian subcontinent around the year 3000-1500 B.C., often referred to as the Aryan Invasion).

This article is about Khatris, but it not about claiming that they have exclusive authority to rule.

Khatris were for many centuries the only group that made up the government administration roles including the rulers, kings, landlords, and governors, as well as the civil administration officials.

Aroras and other similar communities are brothers and friends of Khatris. Aroras are a distinct group, with their own unique history. There is a separate article on Aroras.

Finally Brother 156.80.102.158 - why did you insert the POV tag?

--Vikramsingh 21:20, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

VIKRAM SINGH, WHICH POV TAG ARE YOU REFERRING TOO?.......I AGREE, I WILL TAKE OUT THE STATEMENTS ABOVE, SINCE THIS IS SOLELY ABOUT KHATRIS, BUT THE FACTS REMAIN TRUE ABOUT THOSE STATEMENTS ABOVE....LOOK AT THE ROLES OF KHATRIS, AND THEIR RELATIONSHIP TO BRAHMINS....WHY DOES NO OTHER CASTE/GROUP HAVE THAT RELATIONSHIP TO BRAHMINS? OBVIOUSLY THERE MUST BE SOME DEEP SEEDED HISTORY WITH THESE TWO GROUPS, CORRECT?

-JAY3

Yes, the relationship between Khatris and the Saraswat Brahmins is well documented. It is also referred to in the article. --Vikramsingh 20:01, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The tag: "The factual accuracy of this article is disputed"

Please let us know which specific facts are disputed. Please note that there is a list of references at the end.--Vikramsingh 21:28, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Have you read the talk page archive, when there is a revert war like what's going on now, the article is considered disputed. Nobleeagle (Talk) 01:14, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
I think there is a good list of references. Is there something you question and want referenced? --Vikramsingh 20:04, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
I looked at Nobleeagle's recent version. It looks like the appropriate one, I have restored it. It seems that there is some feeling of rivalry that is behind the revert war. I think for India, and for the Hindus, it is time for people to respect each other regardless of the caste we may belong. The article should be factual and based on hard information. That is what I and several of the other contributors have worked for. --Vikramsingh 20:18, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reversion

You guys revert everyone without even thinking about what you're reverting. Read WP:LEAD at least, read WP:3RR. The article needs a lead section and you guys are removing it. I inserted the Caste Infobox onto the article and was reverted...this is a pointless waste of time if you guys maintain this attitude. Nobleeagle (Talk) 01:14, 21 June 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Khatri....Kshatriya

I do not actually believe in caste and my interest is only from an anthropological point of view, but the continuous editing and re--editing of this page is quite ridiculous and the continous vandalism quite pathetic, one version actually says "khatris are an actor caste" for God's sake come on...

Khatris throughout the middle ages were always considered as Kshatriyas and the difference in the spelling is simply the Prakrit/early punjabi spelling, just as just as Raksha becomes Rakha. Take away the s and y from Kshatriya and you have Khatriya. At some point in the post-Gupta era they took to commerce.

I am from a saraswat Brahmin family and there is indeed a close relationship between the two communities, i HAVE TRIED TO ADD TO THE ARTICLE but it has been changed. Hence my discussion here as i will no longer bother taking "the bate". Regards Sarsut -( punjabi way of saying Saraswati, as in Sarsut Brahman)

[edit] AND STILL..........

NO ONE HAS ANSWERED MY QUESTIONS ABOVE, AND ARE STILL EAGER TO CHANGE THE PAGE...........

FOR THOSE WHO DENY THE KHATRI/KSHATRIYA RELATIONSHIP, ARE ANY OF YOU GOING TO ANSWER MY QUESTIONS ABOVE OR WHAT? OR ARE YOU STILL DOING YOUR RESEARCH?

JAY3

Please don't use capital letters to make a point, it's pretty much the online equivalent of shouting at people! Please stay cool when discussing articles. It's much easier to get your ideas across when others don't think you're being hostile. Have a great day, — riana_dzasta • t • c • e • 04:52, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Khatri/Ksatriya Citings + Refutation Against Manushmritis Citings

Firstly, the admin "Ragib" has banned me for apparently vandalism. I admit, I got frustrated with the revert war and wrote quite blatently in the main article (only that the Khatri's are indeed Ksatriya). I don't believe that the family one is lucky/unlucky enough to be born in defines much at all about their character, it is action that does. All men (and of course, women) are equal unless their character is perturbed by their action - regardless their rights are always equal.



Secondly, I must say it is quite ridiculous how everybody bought into the Manushmritis citings. Here is a nice and quick way to put them to death (re-post):

The nepalise warriors are called 'Chetri' (in fact, Chetri redirects to Ksatriya in Wikipedia) which is linguistically just as close as 'Ksshatri'. Hence there is a contradiction in the logic behind the citation (Manushmritis citation) that is heavily based on the linguistics of "Ksshatri", rendering it invalid. Let alone, a whole community being spawned by a very vague and RARE occurance of events; probabilistically and statistically approximately 0, as this event would have to occur over thousands of times. Here 'event' refers to the event that results in a Ksshatri, as defined previously to be a situation where a Ksatriya female mates with a Sudra male, their child becoming a 'Ksshatri'. Can anyone here provide any solid historical evidence of these events occurring thousands and thousands of times? Thus although it may or may not be valid to refer to Khatri as Ksatriya, it is certainly not valid to refer to them as Sudra.

Here is an arguement posted by someone else that actually favours Khatri/Ksatriya linkage linguistically:

"Khatris throughout the middle ages were always considered as Kshatriyas and the difference in the spelling is simply the Prakrit/early punjabi spelling, just as just as Raksha becomes Rakha. Take away the s and y from Kshatriya and you have Khatriya. At some point in the post-Gupta era they took to commerce."


Thirdly, breif mentions of citings which one VikramSingh has also referred to, please check the articles listed in "References". Also check articles via clicking the names available in the list of Khatri surnames. One in particular has references to the history of Burdwan, where Kapoor ruled for a long time period. Although Burdwan is part of Bangladesh, the ruling Kapoor family undoubtedly trace their origins to Khatri - and hence the HISTORY OF BURDWAN MUST BE REFUTED if anyone is to say otherwise to Khatri = Ksatriya.

Jay3, I don't argue against your Khatri origins, but to call yourself a Khatri is to call yourself a warrior - are you?

Also, there was a very nice section on this article a long time back on Muslim Khatri's. Does anyone know why that was removed?

Also althought Khatri and Ksatriya are one and the same, citation is definately needed when whoever wrote "The Khatris are the original members of the Kshatriya caste" must citate this... that they are indeed the ORIGINALS.

Enough said.

All men have equal rights, all men are equal until their character is perturbed by their actions.

IP: wateva, go check

Restoring this after vandalism got it blanked. Nobleeagle (Talk) 08:03, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

NOBLEEAGLE, YES I AGREE, TO CALL MYSELF A KHATRI, IS TO CALL MYSELF A WARRIOR......BUT IT IS ALSO RIGHT TO CALL A KHATRI/KSHATRIYA A LEADER, AN ADMINISTRATOR, GOVERNOR, MILITARY OFFICIAL, LANDLORD, KING, RULER, CIVIL ADMINISTRATOR, GOVERNMENT ADMINISTRATOR, ETC.ETC....BASCIALLY, ANY ROLE IN AN ARISTOCRATIC POSITION......AND THIS WHAT THE MAJORITY OF KHATRIS ARE IN.... -JAY3

[edit] Maharajas of Burdwan

Actually Burdwan fortunately remained a part of India. Yes, It's Maharajas are Khatri. See the article Kapoor.

The ruling family of Burdwan was responsible for numerous contributions to what is now known as the Bengali culture, many of them in turn, influenced all of India.

--Vikramsingh 23:36, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] AND STILL.........AS OF 6/29/06

NO ONE HAS ANSWERED MY QUESTIONS ABOVE, AND ARE STILL EAGER TO CHANGE THE PAGE...........

FOR THOSE WHO DENY THE KHATRI/KSHATRIYA RELATIONSHIP, ARE ANY OF YOU GOING TO ANSWER MY QUESTIONS ABOVE OR WHAT? OR ARE YOU STILL DOING YOUR RESEARCH?

JAY3 JAY3 infact it was I who had written citation from manusmriti which you persistently removed.You are encouraged to write about your refutations of Mnaushmriti even on my talk page if you prefer.I just wonder what makes people hate the word Shudra.Holywarrior 08:01, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for those citings Holywarrior, but they were easily refuted if you read above. No need to refute any more.

I DON'T HATE THE WORD SHUDRA, INFACT, I ONLY HATE WHEN PEOPLE FABRICATE AND MISINFORM PEOPLE ABOU HISTORY AND FACTUAL INFORMATION about KHATRIS, OR ANYONE FOR THAT MATTER.....ALSO, SHUDRAS PLAYED AN IMPORTANT ROLE IN THE ANCIENT SOCIAL STRUCTURE OF INDIA, NO ONE CAN DENY THIS....BUT I WILL SAY, BECAUSE OF PEOPLES NATURE, THE HIGHER CASTES WOULD OFTEN CORRUPT OR TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THEIR POSITIONS AND EXPLOIT LOWER CASTES....WHICH WE ALL KNOW, WAS TOTALLY WRONG THING TO DO! -JAY3

Hi Jay I read your refutations which are actually countercharge on nepal kings.Yes they are called chettri but actually they are from Mewar Guhilot dynasty whose Kshatriya status is also challenged by Gen.Todd linking them with sasanian sakas /Guebras .This is not the way to refute something.Holywarrior 14:44, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
It should be noted that James Tod wrote in 1829-1832 when most of the archaeological information was not available, and many manuscripts had not come to light. The Kings of Nepal are certainly Rajput, and are thus not immediately related with the Khatris. It should be kept in kind that in ancient times, India was a very large country, with different clans of Kshatriyas ruling different kingdoms in various parts of India. Thus it cannot be claimed that only a certain set of clans from a specific region are the only descendants of the ancient Kshatriyas.--Vikramsingh 16:40, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
Later findings and works have attested James Todd's work with seal of trust.Holywarrior 10:32, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

....


Hey Holywarrior. Those citings and the refutation against your citings wasn't done by Jay, it was done by none other than I (no username). The fact remains that the implications you wish to draw from your citings can only be true under the heavy assumption of a linguistic connection between 'Khatri' and "Kshatri". "Kshatri" is also just as close to "Ksatriya". Also your citings are still refuted regardless of the assumption.

Infact, "Khatri" and "Ksatriya" linguistic connection has been well cited already above. You have also not counter-citated or refuted any of the other citings of ksatriya/khatri linkage posted above.

Can we stop refuting on refutation now?

[edit] disambiguation

Kindly stop reverting to versions where the links point to Punjab, as opposed to a specific usage of the term. It's really bloody annoying, cuz I've busted my chops trying to remove disambiguation links to Punjab. — riana_dzasta • t • c 14:59, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kshatri

Kshatri was also the name of the famous character from the mahabharat "Vidura" who was half brother of Dhritarashtra and cousin of Pandu. "Please check mahabharata." Kshatri also denotes one who is intelligent just fair and strong; qualities that were possessed by Vidura ( supposed incarnation of lord yamaraja, whose son was yuddisthira. )—Preceding unsigned comment added by Alokbagga (talk • contribs) .

Plz go through some earlier versions of this article and if you are interested go through archieve too.You will get the idea what Kshatri means and why Vidura was called so.Holy|Warrior 14:02, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I would suggest.....

that you a-holes stop messing with the page, and putting bogus information up that Khatris are not Kshatriya.....

No one can deny that Khatris/Kshatriya are the same people, so get over it!

KHATRI = KSHATRIYA........simple as that!

will you answer Kshattri=?,I am going to start an article Kshatri.Holy -- + -- Warrior 15:48, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Kshatri page will include most of the deleted part of the articles.It has got references in scriptures and should not be contended.Yeah it will be a separate article without referring to any existing community.Holy | Warrior 15:32, 28 July 2006 (UTC)


........HOLY COWARD, stop being such a loser with that whole 'Kshattri' idea!.....I mean come on, does it not go to prove that you are trying so hard to prove the Khatri/Kshatriya relationship is not true, that you are desparate and looking for anything you can find? And it just goes to show how much you want to dissociate Khatris from Kshatriya. No one can deny or change the fact that Khatri/Kshatriya are the same!.....I bid you good luck on your research! -JAY3

Thanks for reminding me,why should I loose.This is the right place to make Kshatri related edits.Holy|Warrior 14:17, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Khatri ==> Kshatriya

Khatris are the foremost kshatriya race, descended from Luv And Kusha the sons of Lord Rama as narrated by Guru Gobind Singh In bachitar Natak.

Rajputs originated around 700AD. Bappa Rawal first leader who was blessed by Guru Gorakhnath. Rajputs were created by Guru Gorakhnath much the same way as Khalsa was created to protect Hindu ANd INdia from the Islamic Invasion Starting In makran( modern day Balochistan) around the same time.

Rajputs actions of yore were of Khsatriya heritage whether they were originally Kshatriya is debatable.

Khalsa can be anyone his actions have to conform to Kshatriya duties..

similarly earlier rajput could be anyone his actions should conform to kshatriya standards.

Rajputs and Khalsa both adore and worship the sword.

Sword is the symbol of Dharma as narrated By bhisma pitmah in the Santi/Anusansa Parva(I'll give the details of exact section by check in the online text for NAkula, BHISMA, KHADGA)

Also Divine Mother( God in the form of mother) descended on earth with the sword to wipe out adharma and protect her children. Guru Gorakhnath was a worshipper of Mother, get it confirmed from Kanphata yoga's ( Also refer to Swami Rama's works) and Guru Gobing Singh called the sword BHagoti or the Mother or the Sword( as claimed by SIkhs though I doubt it??).

Singh is the Middle name adopted by rajputs and Khalsa. Both suppose to be upholders of dharma. Many texts of Hinduism say that man is known by his deeds. i.e you are a kshatriya if your actions are such. Khalsa gurus were khatris.

IMO muslim rajput is an oxymoron.

So khatris are one of the most ancient kshatriya race by birth/lineage thought they make conform to other duties of different orders as regards to their deeds.

ALok PS ( I have a bunch of reference if someone needs let me know) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alokbagga (talk • contribs) But,that is all your opinions,it will be better to discuss Khatri/Kshatri only here.Holy|Warrior 13:51, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Holycoward, why would anyone discuss only khatri/kshattri on this page, only because you say so??......Don't you get it, there is nothing in the Khatri's history that shows them to be of Kshattri (Shudra) origin as you so cleverly try to make accusations of based on false and misleading information. I really don't understand your deal man, how long can you go on with this nonsense you post?? You see, even after you and I are dead, nothing will change about the Khatri/Kshatriya history....

[edit] Added

I have added a reference and a few links to articles on specific clans. The Sodhi article has been started.--Vikramsingh 00:31, 15 August 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Vandals User:IPKapoor, User:SanjayMohan, User:MSKhanna

These three are frequent vandals:

As you can guess User:IPKapoor and User:MSKhanna are not really Kapoor or Khanna, User:SanjayMohan is same as User:IPKapoor.

If you encounter vandalism by these, I suggest restoring a good version before making any edits.

--Vikramsingh 22:37, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Notethat User:IPKapoor is not me. Apparently the vandal User:IPKapoor whoever he really is, wants people to think that he is me.--ISKapoor 01:24, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vandal User:156.80.102.187

This person 156.80.102.187 has been inserting the tags:

unsourced}}
POV}}
disputed}}

and also this ridiculus text (with no historical support) :
All Kshatriya/Khatris and Brahmins are descendants of Aryan people originating in Central Asia (related to Iranian Aryan tribes of Persia/Iran). They migrated/invaded the Indian subcontinent around the year 3000-1500 B.C., often referred to as the Aryan Invasion).

--Vikramsingh 01:49, 19 August 2006 (UTC)


VikramSingh, what is your caste background? I'm guessing you are an Arora, correct? JAY3

[edit] Vandalism by "IPKapoor"

The vandal "IPKapoor" had inserted a number of Jat family names in the list (see below). Perhaps he is a Jat.

I think people from the same region should specially respect each other, since they share a cultural heritage.

List with non-Khatri names inserted by IPKapoor:

Some Khatri family names include Anand, Ahlawat,Alpials, Awal, Badhwar,Bahl, Bagga, Baijal, Bajwa (=Baswaal) ,Bakshi, Bangyaal,Bedi, Bhalla, Bhasin, Bhandari, Bindra, Chadha, Chandok, Chatta, Cheema, Chona, Chopra, Choudhary, Dahiya, Dalal, Deswal, Dhawan, Dhillon, Dhuhra, Dua, Duggal, Dhupar, Dumra, Gadhiok,Gatwallas, Ghai, Gill, Gandhi, Golia , Gondal, Gosain, Gujral, Gulla, Handa,Her, Jerath, Jairath, Jaggi, Jakhar,Joura, Kadian,Kakkar, Kapoor (Kapur), Kahlon, Kang, Kehar (= Kher, Kharral) ,Khanna, Khosla, Khullar, Kochhar, Kohli, Koshal, Lajwa, Langah (= Langriwal), Lal, Lala, Lamba, Loomba, Madhok, Mahendru, Maini, Malhotra, Malik, Mankhand, Manraj, Mehra, Mehrotra, Mehta, Monga, Nair(Nayyar), Nayer, Nijhawan, Nikhanj, Oberoi, Ohri, Parwanda, Phull, Phul, Phool, Puri, Rai, Randhawa (= Ranjha), Rathi, Roshan, Sabharwal, Sablok, Saggar, Sahni, Sami, Sarin, Saroya,.Sehota, Sochi, Sukhera,Sehgal (Sahgal), Sekhri, Sethi, Seth, Sahrawat,Sial (Syal), Sibal, Sikka, Sobti, Sodhi, Sondhi, Soni, Suri, Talwar, Tandan (Tandon), Taror (= Tarraar and Tharthaal), Tehim, Thapar, Trehan, Uppal, Vadehra, Vig. Vij, Vinaik, Vohra, Wadhawan, Wahi (Wahie), Walia and Waraich (= Virk, Varya or Brar,).

I am sad to see this vandalism.--Vikramsingh 22:10, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism of this Talk page

Please see http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AKhatri&diff=71427701&oldid=70550862

How IPKapoor is vandalizing this talk page itself.--Vikramsingh 22:36, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism by [BMehra]of this Talk page

Please see http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AKhatri&diff=71972812&oldid=71843488

Apparently BMehra is same as IPKapoor (and is neither a Mehra or a Kapoor or from any other Khatri clan).--Vikramsingh 23:56, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article started

I have started.

You are requested to kindly contribute. --ISKapoor 00:16, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ok....This is not a page about ARORAS!

I would suggest we remove the long section about Aroras, since this is strictly a Khatri page!...Let me know what you think moderator

[edit] Arora article

There is one alredy. Please see Arora.

--Vikramsingh 22:58, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Aroras, Lohanas, Soods and Bhatias ARE NOT KHATRIS/KSHATRIYA

Sorry to inform you, but Aroras, Lohanas, Soods and Bhatias are not Khatris or Kshatriya. The original and true people of the Kshatriya caste are Khatris. Some Khatris have expanded into the mercantile/business man field, and work along with the Aroras, Lohanas, Soods, and Bhatias, who are considered part of the Vaishya caste... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jvegas3 (talk • contribs) 19:32, 29 January 2007 (UTC).

In Wikipedia we do things by sources and there are ample sources proving that Aroras, Lohanas, Soods and Bhatias are Kshatriya.Religion and CasteAncestry.com. Nobleeagle [TALK] [C] 21:50, 29 January 2007 (UTC)


Ok Nobleeagle, no where in that link you sent to me above does it say Lohanas, Soods, Bhatias, or Aroras are considered Khatri/Kshatriya. It only says, for example, that Aroras THEMSELVES claim to be Khatri/Kshatriya, but no one else other then their own community recognizes this. So I think you really need to remove the piece from the article:

"The Khatris, along with the Aroras, Lohanas, Soods, Bahris and Bhatias, are the Kshatriya communities of Punjab."

[edit] Nobleeagle, are you a Khatri even?

Just curious, are you a Khatri or Arora? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.110.28.119 (talk) 16:39, 24 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Leave Bhatias, Soods and Lohanas out of this this Khatri-Arora spat

Whoever says that Bhatias are not Kshatriyas are ignorant. The Bhatias, like the Khatris are of Kshatriya stock. The wikipedia entry Bhatia notes that the Bhatia community, like many Jat and Rajput clans, claim descent from one of the greatest Rajput clans of the subcontinent, the Bhatti Rajputs. You do not need more evidence than that, do you?

Next, the Soods claim descent from the Parmar Rajput clan, which is one of the four Agnikula Rajput clans, the other three being Chauhan, Gurjar-Pratihar and Solanki. Again, this is noted in the wikipedia entry on Soods.

Lastly, the Lohana community claims descent from Lav or Loh, one of the twin sons of Sri Rama, and are thus Suryavanshis. May I also put on record here that though the Lohanas are believed to have evolved in the Punjab region (Lav or Loh founded Lahore and his twin Kush founded the town of Kasur on the left bank of the Satluj from Ferozepur), I have yet to come across a Punjabi Lohana. Today, the bulk of the community is domiciled due to centuries of migration, in Sindh and Gujarat. Conversion of Lohanas to Islam gave rise to some of the prominent Muslim communities in western South Asia: the Memons, the Bohras and the Khojas.

And finally, I would say this to the casteist Khatris who have belting out vitriol about Aroras: We do not need your sanction to claim Kshatriya descent. As it is, everybody else who knows Old Punjab, considers both Khatris and Aroras to be just tight-fisted, petty and small-time shopkeepers and moneylenders, a task akin to that performed by Banias, rather than as 'noble warrior Kshatriyas.' —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 210.212.129.66 (talk) 13:04, 26 February 2007 (UTC).

Uhhhhh yea, nice try there buddy!....Look at history for proof, and it will show how Khatris have been the noble, educated, ruling, and aristrocratic high caste for centuries and centuries (EVERYONE KNOWS THIS). The only groups who are considered petty shop keepers are Bhatias, Soods, and Aroras, Banias. If Khatris were petty shop keepers according to you, would they have been able to start a new religion (Sikhism), and have millions of followers (including, Ramgharias, Soods, Jatts, Bhatias, Kambojs, Rajputs, Aroras, Lohanas, Tarkhans, Gujjars, Ahirs, etc.) follow it during its beginning??? If, according to you, that Soods, Aroras, and Bhatias were Kshatriyas, then why would they allow Khatris to start Sikhism? I'll tell you why....it's because they had no control over this, they were not of the same caste or level as Khatris. In fact, the only group at the start of Sikhism that could infact of the power to oppose the Sikh faith were the Mughal rulers or other Khatri groups, who feared they would lose their high caste ranking because of the equality Sikhism promoted. So please "UNSIGNED".....don't even try to come to this discussion board and bring facts about a topic you have no knowledge of!! -JAY3

My dear chap, I know you are a "defender of the community". But it is not me, but you who do not look beyond your backyard. I am not one of your bete noires, "Holy Warrior" or "Sanjay Mohan" or "Rajesh Chauhan" with whom you have had some very nice loud mouthed exchanges. I am justr an ordinary Arora man, who has been just plain annoyed to notice the bilethat folks like you try to belch out against my community. Like you said, look at history itself. And you will find Aroras at every place where the "noble Khatris" are mentioned. And do not give me the "duhai of Sikhism". Orthodox Sikhs do not even consider caste to be an important factor. And even if you look at Sikh military history, you will find most of the Sikh martyrs and warriors to be the rural and militant Jats, than the pusillanimous, urbsne, shop-keepers, the Khatris and their counterparts, the Aroras. If you are so well-versed in Khatri history, just cite me some of the major wars involving Khatris and some of the major states they ruled. That is the true hallmark of being royal and warlike.

And lastly, this site does not belong to you. So do not give me 'naseehats' about not coming on this discussion board. "Ae tere pyo di Chaudhar nahi hai."

[edit] My daddy strongest

Ever so often this imbecile discussion breaks out . and comments like ..jat best or jat beast ,khatri ...best.. or .shopkeeper ...moneylender ...khatri worst ....malhotra elite ....dhai ghar at the top of the pyrimid ....sareen at the lowest ....arora this arora that . Sikh Jat better that Sikh Khatri ..... Hindu bania !....seems to me that posters making both peacock references to them selves and derogatory references to others are only venting their own insecurities from the real world . Intothefire 05:46, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Well put. There sure is a lot of pathetic and petty status squabbling here. You would expect better from a community so closely tied to Sikhism, which always preached equality. I can't believe you folk (on all sides) still care so much about this nonsense in this day and age. Nobody else does. 82.111.242.154 (talk) 23:38, 13 May 2008 (UTC) R.E.D.

[edit] How can you keep saying Aroras, Lohanas, Soods, and Bhatias are Khatri/Kshatriya????

If these groups were Khatri/Kshatriya, don't you think they would be called that, and not Sood or Bhatia. This is such b.s. to being that these groups are classified along with Khatris. They might share comment professions at time or live in the same geographic region, but that does not make them part of the Kshatriya caste. Answer me this then, why is that certain families or groups are even called Khatri then? I mean, you would think, if Bhatias or Soods were Kshatriya, they would also be Khatri, right??? This just goes to show that they are NOT Kshatriya, they are business people and merchant class (Vaishya)

Aroras are Khatris .Intothefire 18:42, 5 April 2007 (UTC)


If Aroras are Khatris, why don't Aroras refer to themselves as Khatris?

Your question ...coming as it does from an anonymous user with no background of posts is neither here nor there ,
Have you anything worthwhile to contribute?
Then say ?
Intothefire 04:10, 13 April 2007 (UTC)


IntotheFire, I made that comment above (username JVegas3), I just didn't log in that day, but its my words, my comment. Now, can you answer the question, "If Aroras are Khatris, why don't Aroras refer to themselves as Khatris?"

That's clear if you knew anything about Aroras. Aroras were Khatris that migrated from the Eastern Punjab areas facing a Brahmin uprising. They settled in Aror, in Sindh, and became known as the Arora communities. Although Kshatriya and maintaining their Kshatriya ways, they changed location and thus changed names. dishant 07:55, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Jvegas3 -
I will answer you after you answer me
which is your favourite cartoon character on Cartoon Network
Micky mouse or Popeye the sailor man . Intothefire 09:42, 18 April 2007 (UTC)


Intothefire, what the heck is that question above....Is that suppose to be a some type of clever rebuttle and insulting remark or something? Please don't tell me you thought that was cool to write, I mean....please don't tell me thats the extent to which you know how to insult someone. Seriously, what were you thinking?

[edit] In-line citations

I have started inserting in-line citations.

Note that citatations are inserted in the text using the ref tags. They are automatically listed at the end of the article.

If you would like to add citations, please check the code during editing and use examples there.

--Vikramsingh 01:10, 30 March 2007 (UTC)


[edit] George W Bush preference

Nice to see the article finally got sorted after those ridiculous 'Ksatri' disputes. I request, althogh Manmohan Singh is Khatri, remove the picture cause I prefer not to have Bush in a page about Khatri's. Or at least change the picture to one that has Manmohan Singh in it alone, which should suffice, as Bush is completely irrelevent..

Note that Dr. Manmohan Singh, as the leader of India, is a world leader, and that is indicated by leaders of the major nations hosting him. That is why a photo with the leader of USA is interesting. It is not about Bush as a person. --Vikramsingh 17:18, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

No worries then - even more reason to just put a portrait of the Prime Minister and take Bush off.

[edit] What is the need to mention this piece in the article?

This article is clearly titled for Khatris, so why does it need to mention this below?

The Arora (see List of Arora surnames), Sood, Kukhran, Bhatia and Lohana castes are distinct communities of the Punjab and Sindh. Although they are not Khatri, they share a similar cultural background, all five communities being Kshatriya in origin.

Aroras and Khatris in particular share a close heritage. One interesting difference between Aroras and Khatris is the colour of the bangle (Churah), which brides wear during the marriage ceremony. Arora women wear white bangles (Chitta Churah) and Khatri women wear red ones (Laal Churah), along with their bridal wear.[citation needed] But in many areas of Punjab, Arora women women red bangles as well and vice versa.[citation needed] —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 156.80.102.121 (talk) 20:09, 17 April 2007 (UTC).

It's a fact of relevance in an article about Khatris. It needs to be said somewhere so one can say it here. dishant 07:53, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
Yes, it is needed to identify the relationship among these communities. They are culturally related, although historically distinct.--Vikramsingh 20:40, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thank you for classification of distinguisehd Khatris

Thanks 210.212.129.66, and 81.149.27.200. Nice classification.--Vikramsingh 20:39, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Some edits

Some of the {{Fact}} tags have been removed for the wrong reason. For example, a citation was requested to say that the Khatris alone had built the Hindu temples of Kabul, and it was removed saying that "The temples exist". Existence does not mean it can be traced back to Khatris. Otherwise you can say, the Eiffel Tower exists, when I add a {{Fact}} tag to "Khatris built the Eiffel Tower in France". dishant 07:42, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Dishant ji
What would you suggest the article should say about temples of Kabul?
Incidentally please look at the Wikipedia article on Hindu temples of Kabul and the links there.
--Vikramsingh 21:48, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
No, you misunderstand. As per Wikipedia:Citing sources, you have to add a <ref>reference</ref> to prove a fact. Otherwise Wikipedians could claim anything they wanted. dishant 00:51, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Division

Does anyone oppose to moving the very long List of distinguished Khatris to an article called List of distinguished Khatris as it overloads this article and similar approaches have been taken on other articles. dishant 01:18, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Dishant I had worked extensively on this list primarily as an attempt to put in perspective an ongoing effort at wicked stereotyping of this community. Unfortunately these kind of motivated slurs abound on the net and on wikipedia and I find both the slurs as well as "pecking order" edit wars derogatory , be they related to Khatris , Jats , Aroras , Bhatias , Lohanas , Rajputs ,Punjabi Shaikhs , Sikhs , Hindus etc . Simillarly I find the notion of excluding Muslim Khatris Unmerited .

The additions to the list created by me were seeking to exhibit the Across-the-board participation of Khatris in Society and specially the armed forces .The order was deliberately not alphabetical (please ref to history to see how I had arranged this).

Comment inserted: That was a very valuable addition to the article. Thanks.--Vikramsingh 00:28, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

I do not have any objection to moving this List, but I just thought you may like to consider why this list had been expanded in the first place in the way it was .

Cheers Intothefire 03:52, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

I think this is what Intothefire is talking about. dishant 05:23, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
Dishant This is where I started working on this section on Distinguished Khatris -see the order .

Revision as of 17:11, 18 April 2007 (edit) (undo) Intothefire (Talk | contribs) (→Distinguished Khatris and Kukhrans - ORGANISED) cheersIntothefire 08:58, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

It is true that the list of distinguished Khatris has become long. However they do define the community. We look at the list and see what the Khatris are about. I think we do need a list here in the article in some form. Perhaps someone can format the information as a table. --Vikramsingh 00:21, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
That would take time, how about removing the headings and just having bolded headings for each category of famous Khatri? dishant 07:49, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
I have made the list two column. One suggestion: Let us remove the models. Let us keep the list distinguished.--Vikramsingh 00:37, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Are they Khatri?

Someone has raised questions about:

Master Tara Singh: he is extremely well known to have been a Khatri. See Master Tara Singh.

Mira Nair: I should point out that Nair (or Nayyar) is a Punjabi family name as well, these are totally different from Kerala Nairs. I have known both kinds of Nairs. Mira grow up in Orissa where her father, a civil servant was posted.

General Om Prakash Malhotra, ex Chief of Staff of the Indian Army, Governor of the Punjab. Why is there a question? Malhotra is a well known Khatri name.

Raj Khosla: Why is these a question here?

--Vikramsingh 00:13, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

I'll take your word for them. Master Tara Singh does not have a source saying that he is Khatri. Someone wrote that he is Malhotra but no source is presented for that either. The confusion with Nair was related to the Kerala Nairs. I don't know why there were tags on Khosla and Om Prakash Malhotra, but it was probably to do with the content instead of the surname. dishant 07:47, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
Please see http://www.allaboutsikhs.com/person/mastertarasingh.htm http://www.oxforddnb.com/index/101073517/ etc. The fact that he was Khatri has been mentioned many times in discussions and artricles, often related to Khatri-vs-Jat discussions for example see (http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.pakistan/browse_thread/thread/b6b33bf76c06e3c0/9cb8dfb116d882e8?lnk=st&q=Master+Tara+Singh++khatri+satanic&rnum=1&hl=en#9cb8dfb116d882e8) {sorry for the crudity of the note}--Vikramsingh 18:57, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Separating Kukharan from Khatri?

I see some people trying to imply that Kukharan are not Khatri. I know no justification for that view. --Vikramsingh 00:25, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The number of Sikh Khatris & other issues

All the Sikh Guru were Khatri, as were many of their followers during their time.

However overwhelming majority of Khatris are Hindu. The fact is well known. For those who need a reference:

Census of India, 1901 By India Census Commissioner, Sir Edward Albert Gait, Published 1903 Office of the Superintendent of Government Printing, India, Part 2 Tables, page 292

gives tables of numbers. Only 5.89% of the Sikhs were Khatri in 1901.

The article does not compare Hindus and Sikhs, about which is the better faith, or which is most important. It simply gives the facts.

It must be noted that until the beginning of the Tat Khalsa movement, the Hindus and Sikh Khatris were not considered separate. Hindu and Sikh Khatris still intermarry, and often visit shrines of both faith. Just giving the facts, no opinions.

--Vikramsingh 01:06, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Models removed

Please forgive me for having removed models from distinguished Khatris.

--Vikramsingh 02:29, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] MODERATOR or VIKRAM SINGH...

I'm not sure if you are the same person, but please revert back to the original Khatri article that had the classification of Khatri as Kshatriya. How are you guys letting the a**hole change this article by saying stuff like "No Kshatriya would ever marry a Khatri"

MODERATOR, DO YOU NOT KEEP UP TO DATE WITH THE CHANGES/EDITS!!??.....

please revert back...

Thank you

[edit] Vandalism by 71.247.104.31

71.247.104.31 keeps vandalizing the article. Please watch for his actions. --Vikramsingh 22:55, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] MODERATOR....

PLEASE STOP ALLOWING 24.185.136.255 TO COMMIT EDITS TO THE ARTICLE. HE IS VERY ANNOYING AND POSTING FALSE INFORMATION ABOUT KHATRIS.

[edit] Khatris are not Kshatriyas

Khatris are NOT Kshatriyas. These are two distinct castes. the Kshatriya the fighter, the Khatri the trader. In India the two rarely marry or merge socially.

Both castes have their own importance and contribution to India.

Kshtriyas never use the word Khatri to describe themselves, neither in Punjab nor anywhere else. Khatris can make as many claims to be Kshatriyas but real Kshtriyas never entertain such bogus claims anywhere in the world. It's just a wishful thinking on some Khatris' part

Why would you want to be someone that you are not?

Are you ashamed of being a merchant caste?

Misrepresenting facts about one's origin is not an honest thing to do.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.185.136.255 (talk • contribs).

WRONG - Sri Dasam Granth makes explicit refrence to Khatri Sodhi and Bedi clans as Kshatriya Surya Banshi clans. --Sikh-history 10:01, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Anoymous user 208.125.3.245

You have posted on two articles viz

Chaudhry Pervaiz Elahi and Khatri
Since you have posted on 01:19, 8 July 2007 208.125.3.245 (Talk) (3,921 bytes) (some basic facts about Chauhdry Pervaiz Elahi and his family as editor knows him personally for last 25 years) (undo) I would assume that you are Pakistani .

Which brings me to the issue of your post on Khatri where you say
" Dr. Paul Joseph Goebbels was sure if you lie several times it does become the truth. Time proved him wrong. the Khatri (a caste of businessmen) is a much respected caste in India but they can not be classified as Kshatriyas (the warrior-royal-caste). Not only are the profession of these two castes in general totally different there is a big difference in structure and attitute too."

Apparently as a Pakistani you have special reasons to come to this conclusion since Pakistan has been ethnically cleansed of Hindus and Sikhs after the partition of India . Therefore please inform on what basis is your opinion based
a)Books ??
b)from first hand dealings with Pakistani Muslims from Khatri Lineage ?
c)Someone told you so
d)your interest in caste is touching ...since the caste lineage of Punjabi muslims is an area of my interest as well perhaps you will be able to shed more light on this subject that could be of my interest ...so which castes among Punjabis are Kshatriya and which are Khatri ?


Cheers Intothefire 13:52, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dr N D King posts on Kshatriya and IP 208.125.3.245 on Khatri

The intriguing and funny case of Dr N D King whose posts appear on Kshatriya page resembling the similar posting pattern of IP 208.125.3.245 that posts on this page

Dr N D King starts posting edits on 24 april 2007 , 11:19, 24 April 2007 (hist) (diff) Central Asia (passes NOT asses)
from this day onwards Dr N D King makes about 35 edits …
every single edit thereafter being only minor language , grammar edit ….
and then lo and behold on 26th July Dr N D King makes the following emphatic post in bold on the Kshatriya page viz
Revision as of 09:06, 26 July 2007 (edit) Dr N D King (Talk | contribs) m (→Further reading) ← Older edit The Kshatriya, or Royal and Warrior caste, is not to be confused with the Khatri which is a merchant caste

Now lets look at IP 208.125.3.245 posts on the Khatri page .
See the posts of this IP 208.125.3.245 strange ...same posting pattern grammar etc as Dr N D King and then posts see its post
[1] Revision as of 21:12, 8 July 2007 (edit) (undo) 208.125.3.245 (Talk) Newer edit → "Dr. Paul Joseph Goebbels was sure if you lie several times it does become the truth. Time proved him wrong. the Khatri (a caste of businessmen) is a much respected caste in India but they can not be classified as Kshatriyas (the warrior-royal-caste). Not only are the profession of these two castes in general totally different there is a big difference in structure and attitute too."

See the posts of this anonymous IP 208.125.3.245 and Dr N D King strange ...same posting pattern grammar etc as Dr N D King and then posts its opinion on Khatri . Meawhile IP 208.125.3.245 also has a personal problem with a pakistani politician who it says it knows personally

Lol
Cheers Intothefire 19:41, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] LETS START KHATRI MAHASABHA AGAIN.

HI,

   TO SOLVE THIS MISUNDERSTANDIG ABOUT KAHTRI, WE SHOULD RESTART "KHATRI MAHASABHA". IT WILL HELP ALL  KHATRI'S IN THE WORLD. I AM READY TO HELP TO RE-FORM THIS. IF YOU LIKE MY IDEA, PLEASE E-MAIL ME @ RAVIUNITED@AOL.COM.

RAVI KAPOOR —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.110.224.44 (talk) 00:22, August 20, 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Khatri Kshatriya A Sikh Perspective

Having studied the Sikh Dasam Granth or compilation of the Tenth Sikh Guru - Guru Gobind Singh ji, there seems to be a clear description of Khatri's as a Kshatriya clan. Note that the Sikh Guru's were of Bedi and Sodhi Clans as described as Khatri's:

Page 144

ਭੁਜੰਗ ਪ੍ਰਯਾਤ ਛੰਦ ॥

भुजंग प्रयात छंद ॥ BHUJANG PRAYAAT STANZA

ਤਹਾਂ ਸਾਹ ਸ੍ਰੀਸਾਹ ਸੰਗ੍ਰਾਮ ਕੋਪੇ ॥ ਪੰਚੋ ਬੀਰ ਬੰਕੇ ਪ੍ਰਿਥੀ ਪਾਇ ਰੋਪੇ ॥ तहां साह स्रीसाह संग्राम कोपे ॥ पंचो बीर बंके प्रिथी पाइ रोपे ॥ There Sri Shah (Sango Shah) become enraged and all the five warriors stood firmly in the battlefield.

ਹਠੀ ਜੀਤਮੱਲੰ ਸੁ ਗਾਜੀ ਗੁਲਾਬੰ ॥ ਰਣੰ ਦੇਖੀਐ ਰੰਗ ਰੂਪੰ ਸਹਾਬੰ ॥੪॥ हठी जीतम्लं सु गाजी गुलाबं ॥ रणं देखीऐ रंग रूपं सहाबं ॥४॥ Including the tenacious Jit Mal and the desparate hero Gulab, whose faces were red with ire, in the field.4.

ਹਠਿਯੋ ਮਾਹਰੀਚੰਦਯੰ ਗੰਗਰਾਮੰ ॥ ਜਿਨੈ ਕਿਤੀਯੰ ਜਿਤੀਯੰ ਫੌਜ ਤਾਮੰ ॥ हठियो माहरीचंदयं गंगरामं ॥ जिनै कितीयं जितीयं फौज तामं ॥ The persistent Mahari Chand and Ganga Ram, who had defeated lot of forces.

ਕੁਪੇ ਲਾਲਚੰਦੰ ਕੀਏ ਲਾਲ ਰੂਪੰ ॥ ਜਿਨੈ ਗੱਜੀਯੰ ਗਰਬ ਸਿੰਘ ਅਨੂਪੰ ॥੫॥ कुपे लालचंदं कीए लाल रूपं ॥ जिनै ग्जीयं गरब सिंघ अनूपं ॥५॥ Lal Chand was red with anger, who had shattered pride of several lion-like heroes.5.

ਕੁਪਿਯੋ ਮਾਹਰੂ ਕਾਹਰੂ ਰੂਪ ਧਾਰੇ ॥ ਜਿਨੈ ਖਾਨ ਖਾਵੀਨਿਯੰ ਖੇਤ ਮਾਰੇ ॥ कुपियो माहरू काहरू रूप धारे ॥ जिनै खान खावीनियं खेत मारे ॥ Maharu got enraged and with frightening expression killed brave Khans in the battlefield.

ਕੁਪਿਓ ਦੇਵਤੇਸੰ ਦਯਾਰਾਮ ਜੁੱਧੰ ॥ ਕੀਯੋ ਦ੍ਰੋਣ ਕੀ ਜਿਉ ਮਹਾ ਜੁੱਧ ਸੁੱਧੰ ॥੬॥ कुपिओ देवतेसं दयाराम जु्धं ॥ कीयो द्रोण की जिउ महा जु्ध सु्धं ॥६॥ The godly Daya Ram, filled with great ire, fought very heroically in the field like Dronacharya.6.

ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਲ ਕੋਪਿਯੰ ਕੁਤਕੋ ਸੰਭਾਰੀ ॥ ਹਠੀ ਖਾਨ ਹਯਾਤ ਕੇ ਸੀਸ ਝਾਰੀ ॥ क्रिपाल कोपियं कुतको स्मभारी ॥ हठी खान हयात के सीस झारी ॥ Kirpal in rage, rushed with his mace and struck it on the head of the tenacious Hayaat Khan.

ਉੱਠੀ ਛਿਛਿ ਇਛੰ ਕਢਾ ਮੇਝ ਜੋਰੰ ॥ ਮਨੋ ਮਾਖਨੰ ਮਟਕੀ ਕਾਨ੍ਹ ਫੋਰੰ ॥੭॥ उठी छिछि इछं कढा मेझ जोरं ॥ मनो माखनं मटकी कान्ह फोरं ॥७॥ With all his might, he caused the marrow flow out of his head, which splashed like the butter spattering out of the pitcher of butter broken by lord Krishan.7.

ਤਹਾ ਨੰਦ ਚੰਦੰ ਕੀਯੋ ਕੋਪੁ ਭਾਰੋ ॥ ਲਗਾਈ ਬਰਛੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਣੰ ਸੰਭਾਰੋ ॥ तहा नंद चंदं कीयो कोपु भारो ॥ लगाई बरछी क्रिपाणं स्मभारो ॥ Then Namd Chand, in fierce rage, wielding his sword struck it with force.

ਤੁਟੀ ਤੇਗ ਤ੍ਰਿਖੀ ਕਢੇ ਜਮਦਢੰ ॥ ਹਠੀ ਰਾਖਯੰ ਲਜ ਬੰਸੰ ਸਨਢੰ ॥੮॥ तुटी तेग त्रिखी कढे जमदढं ॥ हठी राखयं लज बंसं सनढं ॥८॥ But it broke. Then he drew his dagger and the tenacious warrior saved the honour of the Sodhi clan.8.

ਤਹਾਂ ਮਾਤਲੇਯੰ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਲੰ ਕ੍ਰੁਧੰ ॥ ਛਕਿਓ ਛੋਭ ਛਤ੍ਰੀ ਕਰਿਯੋ ਜੁਧ ਸੁਧੰ ॥ तहां मातलेयं क्रिपालं क्रुधं ॥ छकिओ छोभ छत्री करियो जुध सुधं ॥ Then the Maternal uncle Kirpal, in great ire, manifested the war-feats like a true Kshatriya.

ਸਹੇ ਦੇਹ ਆਪੰ ਮਹਾਬੀਰ ਬਾਣੰ ॥ ਕਰਿਯੋ ਖਾਨ ਬਾਨੀਨ ਖਾਲੀ ਪਲਾਣੰ ॥੯॥ सहे देह आपं महाबीर बाणं ॥ करियो खान बानीन खाली पलाणं ॥९॥ The great hero was struck by an arrow, but he caused the brave Khan to fall from the saddle.9.
Sri Dasam Granth


Kirpal here is The Guru's (of Khatri lineage) maternal uuncle. Quite clearly described as a Kshatriya.

[edit] Sodhi Khatri Surya Banshi Descendent

Again from the Dasam Granth the following is narrated in detail of the Sodhi Khatri Kshatriya descendency Page 113.:

ਅਬ ਮੈ ਕਹੋ ਸੁ ਅਪਨੀ ਕਥਾ ॥ ਸੋਢੀ ਬੰਸ ਉਪਜਿਯਾ ਜਥਾ ॥੮॥

अब मै कहो सु अपनी कथा ॥ सोढी बंस उपजिया जथा ॥८॥ Now I narrate my own life-story, how the Sodhi clan came into being (in this world).8.

ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥ दोहरा ॥ DOHRA

ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮ ਕਥਾ ਸੰਛੇਪ ਤੇ ਕਹੋ ਸੁ ਹਿਤੁ ਚਿਤੁ ਲਾਇ ॥ प्रिथम कथा संछेप ते कहो सु हितु चितु लाइ ॥ With the concentration of my mind, I narrate in brief my earlier story.

ਬਹੁਰਿ ਬਡੋ ਬਿਸਥਾਰ ਕੈ ਕਹਿਹੌ ਸਭੈ ਸੁਨਾਇ ॥੯॥ बहुरि बडो बिसथार कै कहिहौ सभै सुनाइ ॥९॥ Then after that, I shall relate all in great detail.9.

ਚੌਪਈ ॥ चौपई ॥ CHAUPAI

ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮ ਕਾਲ ਜਬ ਕਰਾ ਪਸਾਰਾ ॥ ਓਅੰਕਾਰ ਤੇ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਉਪਾਰਾ ॥ प्रिथम काल जब करा पसारा ॥ ओअंकार ते स्रिसटि उपारा ॥ In the beginning, when KAL created the world, it was brought into being by Aumkara (the One Lord).

ਕਾਲਸੈਣ ਪ੍ਰਥਮੈ ਭਇਓ ਭੂਪਾ ॥ ਅਧਿਕ ਅਤੁਲ ਬਲਿ ਰੂਪ ਅਨੂਪਾ ॥੧੦॥ कालसैण प्रथमै भइओ भूपा ॥ अधिक अतुल बलि रूप अनूपा ॥१०॥ Kal sain was the first king, who was of immeasurable strength and supreme beauty.10.

ਕਾਲਕੇਤ ਦੂਸਰ ਭੂਅ ਭਯੋ ॥ ਕ੍ਰੂਰ ਬਰਸ ਤੀਸਰ ਜਗ ਠਯੋ ॥ कालकेत दूसर भूअ भयो ॥ क्रूर बरस तीसर जग ठयो ॥ Kalket became the second king and Kurabaras, the third.

ਕਾਲਧੁਜ ਚਤੁਰਥ ਨ੍ਰਿਪ ਸੋਹੈ ॥ ਜਿਹ ਤੇ ਭਇਓ ਜਗਤ ਸਭ ਕੋ ਹੈ ॥੧੧॥ कालधुज चतुरथ न्रिप सोहै ॥ जिह ते भइओ जगत सभ को है ॥११॥ Kaldhuj was the fourth kin, from whon the whole world originated. 11.

ਸਹਸਰਾਛ ਜਾ ਕੇ ਸੁਭ ਸੋਹੈ ॥ ਸਹਸ ਪਾਦ ਜਾ ਕੇ ਤਨਿ ਮੋਹੈ॥ सहसराछ जा के सुभ सोहै ॥ सहस पाद जा के तनि मोहै॥ He had a thousand eyes a thousand feet.

ਸੇਖਨਾਗ ਪਰ ਸੋਇਬੋ ਕਰੈ ॥ ਜਗ ਤਿਹ ਸੇਖ ਸਾਇ ਉਚਰੈ ॥੧੨॥ सेखनाग पर सोइबो करै ॥ जग तिह सेख साइ उचरै ॥१२॥ He slept on Sheshanaga, therefore he was called the master of Shesha.12.

ਏਕ ਸ੍ਰਵਣ ਤੇ ਮੈਲ ਨਿਕਾਰਾ ॥ ਤਾ ਤੇ ਮਧੁ ਕੀਟਭ ਤਨ ਧਾਰਾ ॥ एक स्रवण ते मैल निकारा ॥ ता ते मधु कीटभ तन धारा ॥ Out of the secretion from one of his ears, Madhu and Kaitabh came into being.

ਦੁਤੀਯ ਕਾਨ ਤੇ ਮੈਲੁ ਨਿਕਾਰੀ ॥ ਤਾ ਤੇ ਭਈ ਸ੍ਰਿਸਟਿ ਇਹ ਸਾਰੀ ॥੧੩॥ दुतीय कान ते मैलु निकारी ॥ ता ते भई स्रिसटि इह सारी ॥१३॥ And from the secretion of the other ear, the whole world materialized.13.

ਤਿਨ ਕੋ ਕਾਲ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਬਧ ਕਰਾ ॥ ਤਿਨ ਕੋ ਮੇਦ ਸਮੁੰਦ ਮੋ ਪਰਾ ॥ तिन को काल बहुरि बध करा ॥ तिन को मेद समुंद मो परा ॥ After some period, the Lord killed the demons (Madhu and Kaitabh). Their marrow flowed into the ocean.

ਚਿਕਨ ਤਾਸ ਜਲ ਪਰ ਤਿਰ ਰਹੀ ॥ ਮੇਧਾ ਨਾਮ ਤਬਹਿ ਤੇ ਕਹੀ ॥੧੪॥ चिकन तास जल पर तिर रही ॥ मेधा नाम तबहि ते कही ॥१४॥ The greasy substance floated thereon, because of that medital (marrow), the earth was called medha (or medani).14.

ਸਾਧ ਕਰਮ ਜੇ ਪੁਰਖ ਕਮਾਵੈ ॥ ਨਾਮ ਦੇਵਤਾ ਜਗਤ ਕਹਾਵੈ ॥ साध करम जे पुरख कमावै ॥ नाम देवता जगत कहावै ॥ Because of virtuous actions, a purusha (person) is known as devta (god)

ਕੁਕ੍ਰਿਤ ਕਰਮ ਜੇ ਜਗ ਮੈ ਕਰਹੀ ॥ ਨਾਮ ਅਸੁਰ ਤਿਨ ਕੋ ਸਭ ਧਰਹੀ ॥੧੫॥ कुक्रित करम जे जग मै करही ॥ नाम असुर तिन को सभ धरही ॥१५॥ And because of evil actions, he is known as asura (demon).15.

ਬਹੁ ਬਿਸਥਾਰ ਕਹਾਂ ਲਗੈ ਬਖਾਨੀਅਤ ॥ ਗ੍ਰੰਥ ਬਢਨ ਤੇ ਅਤਿ ਡਰੁ ਮਾਨੀਅਤ ॥ बहु बिसथार कहां लगै बखानीअत ॥ ग्रंथ बढन ते अति डरु मानीअत ॥ If everything is described in detail, it is feared that the description will become voluminous.

ਤਿਨ ਤੇ ਹੋਤ ਬਹੁਤ ਨ੍ਰਿਪ ਆਏ ॥ ਦੱਛ ਪ੍ਰਜਾਪਤਿ ਜਿਨ ਉਪਜਾਏ ॥੧੬॥ तिन ते होत बहुत न्रिप आए ॥ द्छ प्रजापति जिन उपजाए ॥१६॥ There were many kings after Kaldhuj like Daksha Prajapati etc. 16.

ਦਸ ਸਹੰਸ੍ਰ ਤਿਹਿ ਗ੍ਰਿਹ ਭਈ ਕੰਨਿਆ ॥ ਜਿਹ ਸਮਾਨ ਕਹ ਲਗੈ ਨ ਅੰਨਿਆ ॥ दस सहंस्र तिहि ग्रिह भई कंनिआ ॥ जिह समान कह लगै न अंनिआ ॥ Ten thousand daughters were born to them, whose beauty was not matched by others.

ਕਾਲ ਕ੍ਰਿਆ ਐਸੀ ਤਹ ਭਈ ॥ ਤੇ ਸਭ ਬਿਆਹ ਨਰੇਸਨ ਦਈ ॥੧੭॥ काल क्रिआ ऐसी तह भई ॥ ते सभ बिआह नरेसन दई ॥१७॥ In due course all these daughters were married with the kings.17.

ਦੋਹਰਾ ॥ दोहरा ॥ DOHRA

ਬਨਤਾ ਕਦਰੂ ਦਿਤਿ ਅਦਿਤਿ ਏ ਰਿਖ ਬਰੀ ਬਨਾਇ ॥ बनता कदरू दिति अदिति ए रिख बरी बनाइ ॥ Banita, Kadaru, Diti and Aditi became the wives of sages (rishis),

ਨਾਗ ਨਾਗਰਿਪੁ ਦੇਵ ਸਭ ਦਈਤ ਲਏ ਉਪਜਾਇ ॥੧੮॥ नाग नागरिपु देव सभ दईत लए उपजाइ ॥१८॥ And Nagas, their enemies (like Garuda), the gods and demons were born to them.18.

ਚੌਪਈ ॥ चौपई ॥ CHAUPAI

ਤਾ ਤੇ ਸੂਰਜ ਰੂਪ ਕੋ ਧਰਾ ॥ ਜਾ ਤੇ ਬੰਸ ਪ੍ਰਚੁਰ ਰਵਿ ਕਰਾ ॥ ता ते सूरज रूप को धरा ॥ जा ते बंस प्रचुर रवि करा ॥ From that (Aditi), the sun was born, from whom Suraj Vansh (the Sun dynasty) originated.

ਜੋ ਤਿਨ ਕੇ ਕਹਿ ਨਾਮ ਸੁਨਾਊ ॥ ਕਥਾ ਬਢਨ ਤੇ ਅਧਿਕ ਡਰਾਊ ॥੧੯॥ जो तिन के कहि नाम सुनाऊ ॥ कथा बढन ते अधिक डराऊ ॥१९॥ If I describe the names of the kings of this of this clan, I fear a great extension of the story.19.

ਤਿਨ ਕੇ ਬੰਸ ਬਿਖੈ ਰਘੁ ਭਯੋ ॥ ਰਘੁ ਬੰਸਹਿ ਜਿਹ ਜਗਹਿ ਚਲਯੋ ॥ तिन के बंस बिखै रघु भयो ॥ रघु बंसहि जिह जगहि चलयो ॥ In this clan, there was a king named Raghu, who was the originator of Raghuvansh (the clan of Raghu) in the world.

ਤਾ ਤੇ ਪੁਤ੍ਰ ਹੋਤ ਭਯੋ ਅਜ ਬਰੁ ॥ ਮਹਾ ਰਥੀ ਅਰੁ ਮਹਾ ਧਨੁਰਧਰ ॥੨੦॥ ता ते पुत्र होत भयो अज बरु ॥ महा रथी अरु महा धनुरधर ॥२०॥ He had a great son Aja, a mighty warrior and superb archer.20.

ਜਬ ਤਿਨ ਭੇਸ ਜੋਗ ਕੋ ਲਯੋ ॥ ਰਾਜ ਪਾਟ ਦਸਰਥ ਕੋ ਦਯੋ ॥ जब तिन भेस जोग को लयो ॥ राज पाट दसरथ को दयो ॥ When he renounced the world as a Yogi, he passed on his kingdom to his son Dastratha.

ਹੋਤ ਭਯੋ ਵਹ ਮਹਾ ਧਨੁਰਧਰ ॥ ਤੀਨ ਤ੍ਰਿਆਨ ਬਰਾ ਜਿਹ ਰੁਚਿ ਕਰ ॥੨੧॥ होत भयो वह महा धनुरधर ॥ तीन त्रिआन बरा जिह रुचि कर ॥२१॥ Who had been a great archer and had married three wives with pleasure.21.

ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮ ਜਯੋ ਤਿਹ ਰਾਮ ਕੁਮਾਰਾ ॥ ਭਰਥ ਲੱਛਮਨ ਸਤ੍ਰ ਬਿਦਾਰਾ ॥ प्रिथम जयो तिह राम कुमारा ॥ भरथ ल्छमन सत्र बिदारा ॥ The eldest one gave birth to Rama, the others gave birth to Bharat, Lakshman and Shatrughan.

ਬਹੁਤ ਕਾਲ ਤਿਨ ਰਾਜ ਕਮਾਯੋ ॥ ਕਾਲ ਪਾਇ ਸੁਰਪੁਰਹਿ ਸਿਧਾਯੋ ॥੨੨॥ बहुत काल तिन राज कमायो ॥ काल पाइ सुरपुरहि सिधायो ॥२२॥ They ruled over their kingdom for a long time, after which they left for their heavenly abode.22.

ਸੀਅ ਸੁਤ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਭਏ ਦੁਇ ਰਾਜਾ ॥ ਰਾਜ ਪਾਟ ਉਨਹੀ ਕਉ ਛਾਜਾ ॥ सीअ सुत बहुरि भए दुइ राजा ॥ राज पाट उनही कउ छाजा ॥ After that the two sons of Sita (and Rama) became the kings.

ਮਦ੍ਰ ਦੇਸ ਏਸ੍ਵਰਜਾ ਬਰੀ ਜਬ ॥ ਭਾਤਿ ਭਾਤਿ ਕੇ ਜਗ ਕੀਏ ਤਬ ॥੨੩॥ मद्र देस एस्वरजा बरी जब ॥ भाति भाति के जग कीए तब ॥२३॥ They married the Punjabi princesses and performed various types of sacrifices.23.

ਤਹੀ ਤਿਨੈ ਬਾਂਧੇ ਦੁਇ ਪੁਰਵਾ ॥ ਏਕ ਕਸੂਰ ਦੁਤੀਯ ਲਹੁਰਵਾ ॥ तही तिनै बांधे दुइ पुरवा ॥ एक कसूर दुतीय लहुरवा ॥ There they founded two cities, the one Kasur and the other Lahore.

ਅਧਿਕ ਪੁਰੀ ਤੇ ਦੋਊ ਬਿਰਾਜੀ ॥ ਨਿਰਖਿ ਲੰਕ ਅਮਰਾਵਤਿ ਲਾਜੀ ॥੨੪॥ अधिक पुरी ते दोऊ बिराजी ॥ निरखि लंक अमरावति लाजी ॥२४॥ Both the cities surpassed in beauty to that of Lanka and Amravati. 24.

ਬਹੁਤ ਕਾਲ ਤਿਨ ਰਾਜੁ ਕਮਾਯੋ ॥ ਜਾਲ ਕਾਲ ਤੇ ਅੰਤਿ ਫਸਾਯੋ ॥ बहुत काल तिन राजु कमायो ॥ जाल काल ते अंति फसायो ॥ For a long time, both the brothers ruled over their kingdom and ultimately they were bound down by the noose of death.

ਤਿਨ ਤੇ ਪੁਤ੍ਰ ਪੌਤ੍ਰ ਜੇ ਵਏ ॥ ਰਾਜ ਕਰਤ ਇਹ ਜਗ ਕੋ ਭਏ ॥੨੫॥ तिन ते पुत्र पौत्र जे वए ॥ राज करत इह जग को भए ॥२५॥ After them their sons and grandson ruled over the world.25.

ਕਹਾ ਲਗੇ ਤੇ ਬਰਨ ਸੁਨਾਊਂ ॥ ਤਿਨ ਕੇ ਨਾਮ ਨ ਸੰਖਯਾ ਪਾਊਂ ॥ कहा लगे ते बरन सुनाऊं ॥ तिन के नाम न संखया पाऊं ॥ They were innumerable, therefore it is difficult to describe all.

ਹੋਤ ਚਹੂੰ ਜੁਗ ਮੈਂ ਜੇ ਆਏ ॥ ਤਿਨ ਕੇ ਨਾਮ ਨ ਜਾਤ ਗਨਾਏ ॥੨੬॥ होत चहूं जुग मैं जे आए ॥ तिन के नाम न जात गनाए ॥२६॥ It is not possible to count the names of all those who ruled over their kingdoms in all the four ages.26.

ਜੌ ਅਬ ਤਵ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਬਲ ਪਾਊਂ ॥ ਨਾਮ ਜਥਾ ਮਤਿ ਭਾਖਿ ਸੁਨਾਊਂ ॥ जौ अब तव किरपा बल पाऊं ॥ नाम जथा मति भाखि सुनाऊं ॥ If now you shower your grace upon me, I shall describe (a few) names, as I know them.

ਕਾਲਕੇਤੁ ਅਰ ਕਾਲਰਾਇ ਭਨ ॥ ਜਿਨ ਤੇ ਭਏ ਪੁਤ੍ਰ ਘਰਿ ਅਨਗਨ ॥੨੭॥ कालकेतु अर कालराइ भन ॥ जिन ते भए पुत्र घरि अनगन ॥२७॥ Kalket and Kal Rai had innumerable descendants.27

ਕਾਲਕੇਤੁ ਭਯੋ ਬਲੀ ਅਪਾਰਾ ॥ ਕਾਲਰਾਇ ਜਿਨਿ ਨਗਰ ਨਿਕਾਰਾ ॥ कालकेतु भयो बली अपारा ॥ कालराइ जिनि नगर निकारा ॥ Kalket was a mighty warrior, who drove out Kal Rai from his city.

ਭਾਜ ਸਨੌਢ ਦੇਸ ਤੇ ਗਏ ॥ ਤਹੀ ਭੂਪਜਾ ਬਿਆਹਤ ਭਏ ॥੨੮॥ भाज सनौढ देस ते गए ॥ तही भूपजा बिआहत भए ॥२८॥ Kal Rai settled in the country named Sanaudh and married the king`s daughter.28.

ਤਿਹ ਤੇ ਪੁਤ੍ਰ ਭਯੋ ਜੋ ਧਾਮਾ ॥ ਸੋਢੀ ਰਾਇ ਧਰਾ ਤਿਹਿ ਨਾਮਾ ॥ तिह ते पुत्र भयो जो धामा ॥ सोढी राइ धरा तिहि नामा ॥ A son was born to him, who was named Sodhi Rai.

ਵੰਸ ਸਨੌਢ ਤੇ ਦਿਨ ਤੇ ਥੀਆ ॥ ਪਰਮ ਪਵਿਤ੍ਰ ਪੁਰਖ ਜੂ ਕੀਆ ॥੨੯॥ वंस सनौढ ते दिन ते थीआ ॥ परम पवित्र पुरख जू कीआ ॥२९॥ Sodhi Rai was the founder of Sanaudh dynasty by the Will of the Supreme Purusha.29.

ਤਾਂ ਤੇ ਪੁਤ੍ਰ ਪੌਤ੍ਰ ਹੋਇ ਆਏ ॥ ਤੇ ਸੋਢੀ ਸਭ ਜਗਤਿ ਕਹਾਏ ॥ तां ते पुत्र पौत्र होइ आए ॥ ते सोढी सभ जगति कहाए ॥ His sons and grandsons were called sodhis.

ਜਗ ਮੈ ਅਧਿਕ ਸੁ ਭਏ ਪ੍ਰਸਿਧਾ ॥ ਦਿਨ ਦਿਨ ਤਿਨ ਕੇ ਧਨ ਕੀ ਬ੍ਰਿਧਾ ॥੩੦॥ जग मै अधिक सु भए प्रसिधा ॥ दिन दिन तिन के धन की ब्रिधा ॥३०॥ They became very famous in the world and gradually prospered in wealth.30.

ਰਾਜ ਕਰਤ ਭਏ ਬਿਬਿਧ ਪ੍ਰਕਾਰਾ ॥ ਦੇਸ ਦੇਸ ਕੇ ਜੀਤ ਨ੍ਰਿਪਾਰਾ ॥ राज करत भए बिबिध प्रकारा ॥ देस देस के जीत न्रिपारा ॥ They ruled over the country in various ways and subdued kings of many countries.

ਜਹਾਂ ਤਹਾਂ ਤਿਹ ਧਰਮ ਚਲਾਯੋ ॥ ਅਤ੍ਰ ਪਤ੍ਰ ਕਹ ਸੀਸਿ ਢੁਰਾਯੋ ॥੩੧॥ जहां तहां तिह धरम चलायो ॥ अत्र पत्र कह सीसि ढुरायो ॥३१॥ They extended their Dharma everywhere and had the royal canopy over their head.31.

ਰਾਜਸੂਅ ਬਹੁ ਬਾਰਨ ਕੀਏ ॥ ਜੀਤ ਜੀਤ ਦੇਸੇਸ੍ਵਰ ਲੀਏ ॥ राजसूअ बहु बारन कीए ॥ जीत जीत देसेस्वर लीए ॥ They performed Rajasu sacrifice several times declaring themselves as supreme rulers, after conquering kings of various countries.

ਬਾਜਮੇਧ ਬਹੁ ਬਾਰਨ ਕਰੇ ॥ ਸਕਲ ਕਲੂਖ ਨਿਜ ਕੁਲ ਕੇ ਹਰੇ ॥੩੨॥ बाजमेध बहु बारन करे ॥ सकल कलूख निज कुल के हरे ॥३२॥ They performed Bajmedh-sacrifice (horse-sacrifice) several times, clearing their dynasty of all the blemishes.32.

ਬਹੁਰ ਬੰਸ ਮੈ ਬਢੋ ਬਿਖਾਧਾ ॥ ਮੇਟ ਨ ਸਕਾ ਕੋਊ ਤਿਂਹ ਸਾਧਾ ॥ बहुर बंस मै बढो बिखाधा ॥ मेट न सका कोऊ तिंह साधा ॥ After that there arose quarrels and differences within the dynasty, and none could set the things right.

ਬਿਚਰੇ ਬੀਰ ਬਨੈਤ ਅਖੰਡਲ ॥ ਗਹਿ ਗਹਿ ਚਲੇ ਭਿਰਨ ਰਨ ਮੰਡਲ ॥੩੩॥ बिचरे बीर बनैत अखंडल ॥ गहि गहि चले भिरन रन मंडल ॥३३॥ The great warriors and archers moved towards the battlefield for a fight.33.

ਧਨ ਅਰ ਭੂਮਿ ਪੁਰਾਤਨ ਬੈਰਾ ॥ ਜਿਨ ਕਾ ਮੂਆ ਕਰਤ ਜਗ ਘੇਰਾ ॥ धन अर भूमि पुरातन बैरा ॥ जिन का मूआ करत जग घेरा ॥ The world hath perished after quarrel on wealth and property from very olden times.

ਮੋਹ ਬਾਦ ਅਹੰਕਾਰ ਪਸਾਰਾ ॥ ਕਾਮ ਕ੍ਰੋਧ ਜੀਤਾ ਜਗ ਸਾਰਾ ॥੩੪॥ मोह बाद अहंकार पसारा ॥ काम क्रोध जीता जग सारा ॥३४॥ The attachment, ego and infights spread widely and the world was conquered by lust and anger.34.
Sri Dasam Granth


From this Sodhi Rai the Sodhu clan came into being.

[edit] Free Intermarrying between Khatri - Kshatriya and Rajputs

These three groups will freely intermarry into one another. Kshatriya clans will only marry Kshatriya clans.

[edit] Chetri of Nepal

See http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0014-1836(196205)6:2%3C93:TFON%3E2.0.CO;2-6.

In Nepal Chetri is derived from Kshatriya. In the local diallect. In Punjab Khatri is similarly derived from Ksatriya.

[edit] Acceptable Work For a Kshatriya

Trading and commerce and landlordism are acceptable form of work for a Kshatriya in times of peace according to Manu Smiriti hence why Khatri's are mainly landlords and involved in commerce.

[edit] People....

Please stop effing with the page. For all those people out there that try to say Khatris are not Kshatriya......get a life. You know it, I know it, and everyone knows that Khatris & Kshatriya are one in the same. The more you guys try to change it with bs and frabicated info backed by your jealousy, the more it goes to show the truth.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.174.180.38 (talk) 03:58, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] List of anonymous IP s used by Cranks to post on this article

Apparently there are several users with an agenda posting junk or deleting content from this page . If you come across one not listed here please add. It may be useful to check the other contributions of these crank ips as well as their WHOIS origin .

Perhaps they may respond to posts on their Discusssion page recording a history of their vandal edits on variou articles .<nr>

User Special:Contributions User_talk Comment
User:71.183.136.227 Special:Contributions/71.183.136.227 User_talk:71.183.136.227 Comment
User:208.125.3.245 Special:Contributions/208.125.3.245 User_talk:208.125.3.245 this one not only has a problem with Khatris but also also has a personal problem with a provincial Pakistani politician Chaudhry Pervaiz Elahi
User:65.88.88.153 Special:Contributions/65.88.88.153 User_talk:65.88.88.153 This one posts its opinion on an eclectic range of articles ..has a problem with Sitaram Yechury‎ and Prakash Karat‎
User:64.61.130.108 Special:Contributions/64.61.130.108 User_talk:64.61.130.108 in all probability same as above user

and vandals the following list of articles Prakash Karat‎ and Kshatriya and Brinda Karat and Khatri and GSLV III and Sochi
User:58.179.181.171 Special:Contributions/58.179.181.171 User_talk:58.179.181.171
User:58.178.108.241 Special:Contributions/58.178.108.241 User_talk:58.178.108.241 deletes the following sourced content

Revision as of 23:38, 1 October 2007 (edit) (undo) Colnel Cracoroft thus describes the Khatri
If on the one hand , the Khattar be fierce and blood thirsty , the Khatri of Jandal is courageous and persevering , and although living from day to day with a knife at his throat is as defiant as if he were backed by force far out weighing that of the Khattars and Khattaks and Afridis together |30px|30px|From Gazetteer of the Rawalpindi District 1893-94 page 126 [1]
User:58.105.42.173 Special:Contributions/58.105.42.173 User_talk:58.105.42.173
User:70.174.180.38 Special:Contributions/70.174.180.38 User_talk:70.174.180.38 Seems to be the same as the User:Devraj Singh posts considering same day posts or deletes of similar content with regard to this users own opinion on Khatris on two different pages Khatri and Kshatriya This is a common trait of vandal users on wikipedia to use an anonymous ip for boorish posts
User:68.100.79.207 Special:Contributions/68.100.79.207 User_talk:68.100.79.207
User:65.88.88.153 Special:Contributions/65.88.88.153 User_talk:65.88.88.153

Intothefire (talk) 02:30, 30 March 2008 (UTC)Intothefire (talk) 04:16, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The introduction

Cleaned out the introduction , removed peacock terms as well as extraneous information and adjectives. Also removed irrelevant content assigning pecking order and reference to individuals of who is and who is not . There is a good number of anonymous ips (see above) posting mischievous content including slurs . There are a good many contributors usually anonymous ips that post trash and many articles often this includes posting offensive information with a malicious intent to initiate conflict . Cheers
Intothefire 01:49, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] References

  1. ^ Gazetteer of the Rawalpindi District Published by Sang -e-meel Publications ,Lahore , Pakistan

[edit] hey a**hole 64.61.130.108....

STOP POSTING BS TO THIS SITE, CLAIMING KHATRIS ARE A MERCHANT CLASS. GET LOST! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.174.180.38 (talk) 03:57, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Some reorganization needed

Article needs some reorganization. I will try to do that in a few days.

--Vikramsingh 01:09, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bad structure, some outright lies.

Why is this article so badly written "A great caste of merchants the Khatris." which is FALSE and also contradicts with "The Khatri is a distinct warrior caste and are the actual one and only true Kshatriyas." which is outright FALSE, they are Kshatriyas all over India and in no way is Khatri the only true Kshatriya caste. "They became very important in their mercantile occupations. They also started going into things like cinema and sport when India became indepent.", this is utter rubbish and does not need to be included in an article as it is not special to the Khatri community. The first paragraph needs to be cut down and reduced in size. The prominent Khatri list needs to be transferred to a separate page as it is too large. The POV writers need to take English lessons and require writing skills as well. B Nambiar 05:36, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Comment on "one and only true"

Let me comment on the statement:

The Khatri is a distinct warrior caste and are the actual one and only true Kshatriyas. The Khatri is indeed an important caste. Lord Ram was a Kshatriya, but not from Punjab because he was from Ayodhya which is in the modern state of Uttar Pradesh.

There is no doubt that Khatris are descendants of ancient Kshatriyas.

However most of India, including Pakistan, was once ruled by Kshatriyas. Thus it would be natural that other regions also have descendants of Kshatriyas.

Incidentally the Bedi Khatris are descendants of Lord Ram according to Bichitra Natak, the autobiography of Guru Gobind Singh.--Vikramsingh 19:03, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Matka king deleted

The list of distinguished Khatris:

  • columns have been balanced
  • matka king deleted
  • Only the names of truely pioneering Bollywood individuals have been retained.

My sincere apologies if that may offend someone.

--Vikramsingh 19:19, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sunil Dutt is not Khatri, but a Mohyal Brahmin

I have deleted his name. However those interested in Khatri history should read the articles on Punjabi Brahmin, Chhibber and Mohyal because they have historically been associated with Khatris.

I have added names of a few selected Khatris in Cinema.

Not every movie star who was born a Khatri is worthy of inclusion here, there are too many; but only the distinguished ones.

--ISKapoor 23:26, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism by 65.88.88.153

Please watch for is vandalism.--Vikramsingh 02:16, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Arya Samaj added

I think this should fill a major gap. --Vikramsingh (talk) 00:57, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Proposal to move the list of distinguished Khatris

Perhaps it would be better to clutter the page less and move the list of distinguished Khatris for those who are interested into a page called List of distinguished Khatris? Or List of Khatris. dishant 05:38, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Baba Saigal and trader

Well this article certainly doesn’t lack a sense of humor,

  • Baba Seghal and KL Saigal are in the same category .
  • Other clowns using anonymous ids are getting their kicks inserting insisting Khatris are not Kshatrya ....
  • Some eager beavers keep insisting Dhai Ghar top of pyramid ---and if this were not enough keep expounding on the raison d'être of two and a half .
  • Someone rewrites the Mahabharat by creating a son of Yodhishtra .
  • How about these three worthy names on the Distinguished List -Manish malhotra

Gautam Saigal, is the founder of the [Tackyon group of companies Neville Tuli, we may as well have babbly aunty from Karol Bagh here as well

On a more serious note for God sake Khatris are not the only true Kshatriya in India . Secondly the notion that only people fighting in wars were Khatri or Rajputs is misplaced because not only is it not true but also that as a percentage of population they were so small that it may not have been feasible unless they were playing a 20 20 kind of one dayer war ......

The adjective of trader was attached by the English colonialists to Khatris ...and this was articulated in their census reports of 1885 as well as the district Gazetteer of the Punjab . Not only this many of those classified as jats or Rajputs are also mistakenly classified as such on account of their being agriculturalist ...and this is also recorded in the Gazettes .
The gazettes are full of contradictions ...some places the khatris are alluded to being weak at other places they are recorded as warlike and recorded to make the best officers . The sheer brilliance and intelligent effort of the English at social engineering was at play on the population . The Khatris were disliked for various reasons ,among them being their pre-eminent socio-economic condition and position often on account of their completely disproportionate level of economic wealth, land holding , education , social reforms and political consciousness . Considering the English known as a nation of shop keepers themselves came to rule over half the planet ...comprehended better than anyone else the power of controlling the economy
Cheers<br. Intothefire 09:50, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Removal of Muslim Khatri content

Dishant55555 I hope yo are are not the anonymous ip 88.109.57.2 who is removing information on Muslim Khatris , because if you are please dont . Khatris were converted to Islam just as many other Punjabi clans , tribes were . I would suggest you do look at various other articles related to this subject such as Punjabi Shaikh , Khawaja Shaikh Khojas , Qanungoh Shaikh , Piracha .
What purpose does it serve to remove this information ??
Cheers
Intothefire (talk) 13:35, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] A good source for some historical material on the Khatris

[http://persian.packhum.org Persian Literature in Translation The Packard Humanities Institute] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Intothefire (talk • contribs) 07:19, 5 January 2008 (UTC) Enter the site and type Khatri or any other word to find content from a large list of Persian books . Cheers
Intothefire (talk) 07:26, 5 January 2008 (UTC) Intothefire (talk) 05:35, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks.--ISKapoor (talk) 08:42, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

- :)
Cheers
Intothefire (talk) 10:17, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Legend of Hingalaj mata

I have seen the legend before, but I don't see its connection with the Khatris.--ISKapoor (talk) 04:58, 20 January 2008 (UTC)


Very True! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.0.0.29 (talk) 22:12, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] See this link

[http://www.searchgurbani.com/main.php?book=bhai_gurdas_vaaran&action=pauripage&vaar=8&pauri=10 Displaying Vaar 8 Pauri 10 of 24 of Vaaran Bhai Gurdas] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Intothefire (talk • contribs) 11:43, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Hinglaj Rama Shah Gulla and Shame Shah Gulla

I request and suggest that the entire sections on Hinglaj , Rama Shah Gulla and Shame Shah Gulla needs to be removed completely . Hingaj Temple in Baluchastan is a notable subject and could be an article on its own or part of another appropriate article . But I don’t seem to see its relevance in any way to this article in the current context.
The Gulla family section is inappropriate here as well . Without being disrespectful, if these are notable people the editor of this content would do better to first create a separate article.
If the other editors of this article have a consensus on this issue then all of this content contributed by an anonymous user may be deleted . Cheers
Intothefire (talk) 16:54, 21 February 2008 (UTC)