User talk:Kevinalewis/2007archiveQ3

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Welcome - to my July 2007 – September 2007 talk archive

This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archives
October 2005 – December 2005 January 2006 – March 2006 April 2006 – June 2006 July 2006 – September 2006 October 2006 – December 2006 January 2007 – March 2007 April 2007 – June 2007 July 2007 – September 2007 October 2007 – December 2007 January 2008 – March 2008
Current Talk
updated 2 January 2008 — (changes • edit)

1 Fair use rationale for Image:NormanMacLean ARiverRunsThroughIt.jpg
2 WikiProject Novels
3 {{WikiProject Novels}}
4 Fair use rationale for Image:TheaBeckman CrusadeInJeans.jpg
5 Fair use rationale for Image:TheaAlexander 2150AD.jpg
6 Fair use rationale for Image:StephenHunter PointOfImpact.jpg
7 Fair use rationale for Image:StephenFry TheLiar.jpg
8 Non-free use disputed for Image:StephenDonaldson TheRunesOfTheEarth.jpg
9 Fair use rationale for Image:StephenBury Interface.jpg
10 Fair use rationale for Image:StephenBaxter evolution.jpg
11 Fair use rationale for Image:TheTitan.jpg
12 Non-free use disputed for Image:TheHobbit FirstEdition.jpg
13 Fair use rationale for Image:TheFloatingAdmiral.jpg
14 Fair use rationale for Image:TheDainCurse.jpg
15 Non-free use disputed for Image:TheCorrs ForgivenNotForgotten TourEd.jpg
16 Novel series / novels
17 Kafka Categories
18 Orphaned non-free image (Image:JanetteRallison FameGlory.jpg)
19 Invite to join Novels WikiProject
20 Fair use rationale for Image:WillaCather ALostLady.jpg
21 Non-free use disputed for Image:WarAndPeace.jpg
22 Fair use rationale for Image:UrsulaHegi StonesFromTheRiver.jpg
23 Non-free use disputed for Image:WarAndPeace dvd.jpg
24 Fair use rationale for Image:TrudiCanavan TheMagiciansGuild.jpg
25 Non-free use disputed for Image:TroyDonockley UnseenStream.jpg
26 Non-free use disputed for Image:TroyDonockley PursuitOfIllusion.jpg
27 Non-free use disputed for Image:ZaneGrey ToTheLastMan.jpg
28 Non-free use disputed for Image:WolfHaas ComeSweetDeath.jpg
29 Fair use rationale for Image:WitoldGombrowicz TransAtlantyk.jpg
30 Fair use rationale for Image:WinterKing Cornwell.jpg
31 Fair use rationale for Image:WillianGolding TheInheritors.jpg
32 Non-free use disputed for Image:WilliamWellsBrown Clotel.jpg
33 Fair use rationale for Image:WilliamSaroyan TheHumanComedy.jpg
34 Non-free use disputed for Image:WilliamHorwood DunctonWood.jpg
35 Non-free use disputed for Image:WilliamDiehl PrimalFear.jpg
36 Non-free use disputed for Image:WilliamBrinkley TheLastShip.jpg
37 Fair use rationale for .... errrr I mean July 2007 Newsletter stuff
38 Novels project
39 Fair use rationale for Image:ThomasMann TheBelovedReturns.jpg
40 Unspecified source for Image:JamesClavell_Gai-Jin.jpg
41 Unspecified source for Image:MoyaBrennan_Maire.jpg
42 Unspecified source for Image:MoyaBrennan_WhisperToTheWildWater.jpg
43 Unspecified source for Image:MoyaBrennan_MistyEyedAdventures.jpg
44 Image:Sharpes Prey.jpg
45 Unspecified source for Image:AdrianSnell.jpg
46 Fair use rationale for Image:ThomasMann TheBelovedReturns.jpg
47 WP Novels question
48 Image:DavidWebberEricFlint_1633.jpg
49 Novels tag
50 Fair use rationale for Image:WilkieCollins TheMoonstone.jpg
51 Non-free use disputed for Image:Transatlantic SMPTe.jpg
52 Fair use rationale for Image:TracyHickman RequiemOfStars.jpg
53 Non-free use disputed for Image:TracyBarrett AnnaOfByzantium.jpg
54 Kushiel's Dart: Still a Stub??
55 The Novels WikiProject Newsletter: Issue XIV - July 2007
56 Unspecified source for Image:GentleGiant_ScrapingTheBarrel.jpg
57 Unspecified source for Image:IraLevin_TheStepfordWives.jpg
58 Unspecified source for Image:Iona_promo.jpg
59 Unspecified source for Image:IrisMurdoch_TheItalianGirl.jpg
60 Unspecified source for Image:IrisMurdoch_TheSandcastle.jpg
61 Unspecified source for Image:Iona_WovenCord.jpg
62 Unspecified source for Image:Iona_Treasures.jpg
63 Unspecified source for Image:Iona_JourneyIntoTheMorn.jpg
64 Unspecified source for Image:JohnMichaelTalbot_promo.jpg
65 and
66 Monobook
67 Your expertise required
68 WPNovels
69 Fair use rationale for Image:WalterScott QuentinDurwood.jpg
70 Non-free use disputed for Image:WalterLord ANightToRemember.jpg
71 Fair use rationale for Image:WalterKirn Thumbsucker.jpg
72 Fair use rationale for Image:WallyLamb ShesComeUndone.jpg
73 Fair use rationale for Image:WallyLamb IKnowThisMuchIsTrue.jpg
74 Fair use rationale for Image:WalkerPercy TheThanatosSyndrome.jpg
75 Fair use rationale for Image:VictorHugo TheManWhoLaughs.jpg
76 Fair use rationale for Image:VernorVinge RainbowsEnd.jpg
77 Today's BetacommandBot messages
78 Sparknotes References?
79 Dark Wind Blowing
80 Dark Wind Blowing
81 Dark Wind Blowing
82 Dark Wind Blowing
83 bassoon user boxes
84 Unspecified source for Image:AxelTeichmann_promo.jpg
85 Infoboxes
86 Re: your edits to Runaround
87 Non-free use disputed for Image:TonyEarley JimTheBoy.jpg
88 Fair use rationale for Image:TomClancy TheBearAndTheDragon.jpg
89 Fair use rationale for Image:TomClancy RainbowSix.jpg
90 Non-free use disputed for Image:WRF RallyCry.jpg
91 Fair use rationale for Image:TobiasWolff ThisBoysLife.jpg
92 AutoWikiBrowser v4 Alpha Released
93 Pages for Attention
94 Orphaned non-free image (Image:BernardCornwell SharpesFury.jpg)
95 Image copyright problem with Image:Asia_SilentNation.jpg
96 Re: AWB and Kingbotk Plugin
97 Non-free use disputed for Image:TimLaHaye TheRising.jpg
98 Fair use rationale for Image:TimLaHaye TheRegime.jpg
99 Fair use rationale for Image:TimLaHaye TheRapture.jpg
100 Non-free use disputed for Image:TimLaHaye Assassins.jpg
101 Unusual Adoption Request
102 Fair Use Rationales for Image:Soul Harvest.jpg & Image:Apollyon.jpg
103 Image copyright problem with Image:EmersonLakePalmer_Album.jpg
104 The Novels WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XV - August 2007
105 Notification of discussion: Guideline/policy governing lists
106 Patriot Games
107 WikiProjectNovels
108 Book vs. Short story infobox template
109 Journey to the Center of the Earth book cover
110 WP:WARRIORS
111 Stub?
112 Proposed deletions (WP:PROD)
113 For your info:
114 Ascent (novel)
115 Ad
116 Newsletters
117 WP:Novels newsletter
118 Wollstonecraft category
119 Kiki Strike
120 Books/Works
121 Re: Kiki Strike + Novels WikiProject
122 Category:Novels by David Brin, etc.
123 Fantasy Task Force...
124 Re: Kiki Strike
125 The Novels WikiProject Newsletter: Issue XVI - September 2007
126 Orphaned non-free media (Image:AgathaChristie CatAmongThePigeons.jpg)
127 Orphaned non-free media (Image:AgathaChristie DeadMansFolly.jpg)
128 Orphaned non-free media (Image:AgathaChristie EvilUnderTheSun.jpg)
129 Orphaned non-free media (Image:AgathaChristie PerilAtEndHouse.jpg)
130 Image:AndThenThereWereNoneBookCover.jpg
131 Orphaned non-free media (Image:EdithNesbit ThePhoenixAndTheCarpet.jpg)
132 Charteris mysteries
133 Mike Ashley (writer)
134 Laura (novel)
135 Thanks!
136 Thanks
137 Orphaned non-free media (Image:AgathaChristie ACaribbeanMystery First.jpg)
138 Orphaned non-free media (Image:AgathaChristie ACaribbeanMystery.jpg)
139 Template:World Rally Champions
140 PKD
141 Biographies
142 Alan Bennett's The Uncommon Reader
143 Fair use rationale for Image:BernardMalamud_TheNatural.jpg
144 Singerman list
145 Hello
146 Star over Bethlehem
147 Novel
148 Gaia (Foundation universe)
149 Disputed fair use rationale for Image:The Hundred Days cover.jpg
150 Disputed fair use rationale for Image:SusanCooper OverSeaUnderStone.jpg

Fair use rationale for Image:NormanMacLean ARiverRunsThroughIt.jpg

Thanks for uploading or contributing to Image:NormanMacLean ARiverRunsThroughIt.jpg. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use. Suggestions on how to do so can be found here.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on those pages too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 00:34, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Novels

As part of WikiProject James Bond, we have a collaboration of the fortnight (two weeks) and for this two weeks (first two weeks of July), our collaboration is on the novel Live and Let Die (novel). The project also put it up to the WikiProject Novels Collaboration of the Month, hoping that both projects may be able to better get it up to higher standard. Currently Live and Let Die is tied with the most supports, but being the newer one, will probably won't pick it. But if both projects collobarating on it, would be much better. If you could give your support, it would be much appreciated. SpecialWindler talk 04:30, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know. :) So you know, I took the talkpage template I was using from your project page - you may want to update that if you haven't already. Katharineamy 16:31, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Wow, I lose at noticing comments I've got. I don't actually remember where I found it, but I thought it was on the project page. Maybe it wasn't! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Katharineamy (talk • contribs) 19:07, August 20, 2007 (UTC).

Fair use rationale for Image:TheaBeckman CrusadeInJeans.jpg

Thanks for uploading or contributing to Image:TheaBeckman CrusadeInJeans.jpg. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use. Suggestions on how to do so can be found here.

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Fair use rationale for Image:TheaAlexander 2150AD.jpg

Thanks for uploading or contributing to Image:TheaAlexander 2150AD.jpg. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use. Suggestions on how to do so can be found here.

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Fair use rationale for Image:StephenHunter PointOfImpact.jpg

Thanks for uploading or contributing to Image:StephenHunter PointOfImpact.jpg. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use. Suggestions on how to do so can be found here.

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Fair use rationale for Image:StephenFry TheLiar.jpg

Thanks for uploading or contributing to Image:StephenFry TheLiar.jpg. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use. Suggestions on how to do so can be found here.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on those pages too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free media lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 04:30, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Non-free use disputed for Image:StephenDonaldson TheRunesOfTheEarth.jpg

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Thanks for uploading Image:StephenDonaldson TheRunesOfTheEarth.jpg. However, there is a concern that the rationale you have provided for using this image under "fair use" may be invalid. Please read the instructions at Wikipedia:Non-free content carefully, then go to the image description page and clarify why you think the image qualifies for fair use. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If it is determined that the image does not qualify under fair use, it will be deleted within a couple of days according to our Criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 04:31, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:StephenBury Interface.jpg

Thanks for uploading or contributing to Image:StephenBury Interface.jpg. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use. Suggestions on how to do so can be found here.

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Fair use rationale for Image:StephenBaxter evolution.jpg

Thanks for uploading or contributing to Image:StephenBaxter evolution.jpg. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use. Suggestions on how to do so can be found here.

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Fair use rationale for Image:TheTitan.jpg

Thanks for uploading or contributing to Image:TheTitan.jpg. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use. Suggestions on how to do so can be found here.

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Non-free use disputed for Image:TheHobbit FirstEdition.jpg

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Fair use rationale for Image:TheFloatingAdmiral.jpg

Thanks for uploading or contributing to Image:TheFloatingAdmiral.jpg. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use. Suggestions on how to do so can be found here.

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Fair use rationale for Image:TheDainCurse.jpg

Thanks for uploading or contributing to Image:TheDainCurse.jpg. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use. Suggestions on how to do so can be found here.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on those pages too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free media lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 04:49, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Non-free use disputed for Image:TheCorrs ForgivenNotForgotten TourEd.jpg

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Thanks for uploading Image:TheCorrs ForgivenNotForgotten TourEd.jpg. However, there is a concern that the rationale you have provided for using this image under "fair use" may be invalid. Please read the instructions at Wikipedia:Non-free content carefully, then go to the image description page and clarify why you think the image qualifies for fair use. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

Novel series / novels

Been considering tackling Crhis Bunch's Dragonmaster trilogy, but I don't think it would warrant separate articles for each novel to start with. But the Wikiproject Books didn't have an easily findable guideline for novel series article? Should I just put down the article in form starting with following format with novel infoboxes set into the corresponding novel's part? 'General' 'Novel 1' 'Novel 2' 'Novel 3' --TLein 10:52, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Kafka Categories

Great work on the Kafka categories. I would suggest the "Books by Kafka" be changed to "Nonfiction books by Kafka" to exclude the two other categories (novels and story collections) and include the five books of letters. AshcroftIleum 22:02, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image (Image:JanetteRallison FameGlory.jpg)

Thanks for uploading Image:JanetteRallison FameGlory.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

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Invite to join Novels WikiProject

Thank your very much for the invite.

I would gladly join the Novels WikiProject however to be fair I must admit that my availability for participating to the project would be erratic at best. If that is not a problem with you, then count me in, otherwise I'll keep on providing updates from time to time as my schedule permits like I'm doing now.

Best regards and kudos to the whole team for the oustanding job you're doing.

Msan

Fair use rationale for Image:WillaCather ALostLady.jpg

Thanks for uploading or contributing to Image:WillaCather ALostLady.jpg. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use. Suggestions on how to do so can be found here.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on those pages too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free media lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 11:12, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Non-free use disputed for Image:WarAndPeace.jpg

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Fair use rationale for Image:UrsulaHegi StonesFromTheRiver.jpg

Thanks for uploading or contributing to Image:UrsulaHegi StonesFromTheRiver.jpg. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use. Suggestions on how to do so can be found here.

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Non-free use disputed for Image:WarAndPeace dvd.jpg

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Fair use rationale for Image:TrudiCanavan TheMagiciansGuild.jpg

Thanks for uploading or contributing to Image:TrudiCanavan TheMagiciansGuild.jpg. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use. Suggestions on how to do so can be found here.

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Non-free use disputed for Image:TroyDonockley UnseenStream.jpg

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Non-free use disputed for Image:TroyDonockley PursuitOfIllusion.jpg

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Non-free use disputed for Image:ZaneGrey ToTheLastMan.jpg

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Non-free use disputed for Image:WolfHaas ComeSweetDeath.jpg

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Fair use rationale for Image:WitoldGombrowicz TransAtlantyk.jpg

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Fair use rationale for Image:WinterKing Cornwell.jpg

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Fair use rationale for Image:WillianGolding TheInheritors.jpg

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Non-free use disputed for Image:WilliamWellsBrown Clotel.jpg

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Fair use rationale for Image:WilliamSaroyan TheHumanComedy.jpg

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Non-free use disputed for Image:WilliamHorwood DunctonWood.jpg

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Non-free use disputed for Image:WilliamDiehl PrimalFear.jpg

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Non-free use disputed for Image:WilliamBrinkley TheLastShip.jpg

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Fair use rationale for .... errrr I mean July 2007 Newsletter stuff

Here's an old Hugo Award for Your good work for the Newsletter. feydey 07:59, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

I have added items to Newsletter July 2007. Send it out after reviewing it. Apparently nothing important happens in June - July :) feydey 07:59, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Novels project

Thanks for the invite. I've debated for some time over whether my wiki-energies would be better put to use devoted to a single project rather than scattered over books, opera, and whatever else. But, I can't decide! I'm sure you'll continue to see me around the Nabokov articles. Dybryd 18:29, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:ThomasMann TheBelovedReturns.jpg

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Unspecified source for Image:MoyaBrennan_Maire.jpg

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Unspecified source for Image:MoyaBrennan_MistyEyedAdventures.jpg

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Image:Sharpes Prey.jpg

Hi, is this cover (and another) your own scan?--OsamaK 02:31, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

Unspecified source for Image:AdrianSnell.jpg

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Fair use rationale for Image:ThomasMann TheBelovedReturns.jpg

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WP Novels question

Is adding "pp" after the number of pages in book/novel infoboxes an established practice in the Project? I've seen you implement this before, but it seems redundant (and kind of ugly) considering that the infobox already puts the word "Pages" right next to the number. TAnthony 14:50, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Image:DavidWebberEricFlint_1633.jpg

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Novels tag

Just curious, since {{WPNovels}} and {{NovelsWikiProject}} give the same results and both of them can be used identically with full piping (i.e. {{WPNovels|class= |importance= |auto= |attention= |needs-infobox=}} and {{NovelsWikiProject|class= |importance= |auto= |attention= |needs-infobox=}} what's the difference? SkierRMH 16:12, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Only that the second is the official wikiproject banner. Particularly when searching for the banner string it is useful to know what to look for. In fact why do we have two redirects to NovelsWikiProject.

Kevinalewis : ^{(Talk Page)}/_(Desk) 16:15, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

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Non-free use disputed for Image:Transatlantic SMPTe.jpg

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Fair use rationale for Image:TracyHickman RequiemOfStars.jpg

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Non-free use disputed for Image:TracyBarrett AnnaOfByzantium.jpg

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Kushiel's Dart: Still a Stub??

Hi! I was looking at the Kushiel's Dart page. It says on the page that the plot summary is overly long, yet the talk page says its a stub class article. Is it really still a stub?? eveningscribe 07:08, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Can we keep this conversation in one spot? I'm getting dizzy. ;) So... is it?

Different people like different thinks of a talk page dialogue. So short answer no, but I did say that and I have adjusted the rating - at least I thought I did. In these article Plot is just not enough. I know loads of article are like that but that is not what wikipedia is about. The bulk of any article needs to be "out of universe" in style. Also verfiability, npov and referencing are key. Thanks. :: Kevinalewis : ^{(Talk Page)}/_(Desk) 08:06, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

The short answer is that no, the article isn't npov and referenced? *Just clarifying* Evening Scribe 08:24, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

MY fault for trying to add value to the conversation I'm not really saying these things apply to this article currently. Some of them did and that's why I mentioned them - it is much improved now but still could do with extra work, perhaps in the area of critical comment and reviews from respected sources. :: Kevinalewis : ^{(Talk Page)}/_(Desk) 08:28, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

No no, its all good, I just wanted to be clear because I'm so new. I'm learning from you. :) So between your first and second reply tonight, I read the plot summary. Oh my GOD that was pretty awful, I'm itching to clean it up. Also, can you direct me to a wiki policy about spoilers/ Because I think THAT plot summary has too many spoilers. :p Evening Scribe 08:31, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Oh dear, spoiler policy! there is one (a guideline) about that at WP:SPOILER, however there is "loads" of debate and disagreement about it. The current trend if to assume that if the spoiler is in a plot section that that is enough to be clear that such a spoiler should be expected. Cant' agree myself but that is what is said by many. Personally I have alway tried to include a "plot introdcution" that is spoiler free and then a "plot summary" which "can" include spoilers and is more detailed, although not the majority of the article. :: Kevinalewis : ^{(Talk Page)}/_(Desk) 08:44, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks! Have a good night. Evening Scribe 10:14, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Actually it's just coming up to Noon in the UK, but thanks anyhow! Sleep tight. :: Kevinalewis : ^{(Talk Page)}/_(Desk) 10:19, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

The Novels WikiProject Newsletter: Issue XIV - July 2007

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The Novels WikiProject Newsletter
Issue XIV - July 2007

Project news

The demand for fair use rationales for book covers has generated a discussion among wikipedians and also WP:NOVELS members. See the discussion here it has some potentially very important ideas to consider and possibly contribute to.

Member news

The project has currently 247 members, 11 joined & 0 leavers since the last newsletter at the start of June 2007

Other news

The French and Francophone literature portal was created in June.

Novel related news

The Novel - (author notes by kind permission of Gregory David Roberts)

What is a novel? What are the elements that must be found in any piece of writing for it to be considered a novel? I think it fair to say that traditional definitions of the word “novel” work along these lines: A novel is a fictitious prose story of book length. In my view, a novel has six basic elements: 1) It must have a society of characters; 2) They must be undergoing transformations; 3) And those must be in the course of a sustained prose narrative; 4) The sustained prose narrative must be impelled by a plot; 5) And it must be unified by clearly discernible central themes; 6) And to the extent possible, it must be universalised by a complex architecture of allegorical and symbolical sub-strata. If I write those six basic elements into a single definition, I come up with this: A novel is a society of characters, undergoing transformations, in the course of a sustained prose narrative, which is impelled by a plot, unified by clearly discernible central themes, and universalised by a complex architecture of allegorical and symbolical sub-strata.

item courtesy of Boylo (talk · contribs)

Current debates

After lengthy discussions about the {{Infobox_Book}} it has settled down at a possibly permanent layout. Any suggestions are still of course welcome.
Also the important book cover debate mentioned first above.

From the Members

Welcome to the fourteenth issue of the Novels WikiProject's newsletter! Use this newsletter as a mechanism to inform yourselves about progress at the project and please be inspired to take more active roles in what we do.

We would encourage all members to get more involved and if you are wondering what with, please ask.

Kevinalewis : ^{(Talk Page)}/_(Desk), Initiating Editor

Collaboration of the Month

This month's Collaboration has been selected by popular vote and is Live and Let Die (novel).

Newsletter challenge

Last month's Pity is Not Enough challenge was quickly written by our two eager Novel's WP members Imasleepviking (talk · contribs) and Yllosubmarine (talk · contribs) from the US.

The first person to start the article is mentioned in the next newsletter. This month's article is Sinclair Ross' As For Me and My House.

To stop receiving this newsletter, or to receive it in a different format, please list yourself in the appropriate section here.

This is an automated delivery by grafikbot 17:46, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

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Unspecified source for Image:Iona_promo.jpg

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Unspecified source for Image:IrisMurdoch_TheSandcastle.jpg

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Unspecified source for Image:Iona_WovenCord.jpg

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Unspecified source for Image:Iona_Treasures.jpg

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Unspecified source for Image:Iona_JourneyIntoTheMorn.jpg

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Unspecified source for Image:JohnMichaelTalbot_promo.jpg

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Hi! Please see your images:

Thanks!--OsamaK 21:36, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

and

Sorry :).--OsamaK 21:42, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Monobook

Greetings. For some reason your monobook is appearing in Category:Unassessed film articles. SkierRMH 23:02, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Your expertise required

Someone created {{Dune character box}}, which I think will be useful but is behaving badly; it won't stay at the top of articles and somehow is merging with the TOC (see Gaius Helen Mohiam). I've tried to troubleshoot it but I'm no expert, my only solution would be to recreate it from scratch, which I don't want to do. Can you take a look and see if you can quickly determine the issue? TAnthony 16:02, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Can't immediately see It and I must go! Try checking the number of opening and ending elements that is often a gotcha! :: Kevinalewis : ^{(Talk Page)}/_(Desk) 16:13, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

WPNovels

Hi Kevin, I'm excited to have joined Wikiproject Novels and look forward to helping with more projects! I've put in a request at WP:AWB to be added to the list, hopefully by Monday I'll be able to use this to start saving that mass of book covers. I think once we have a basic "book cover image guide" up, we should link to it from {{WPNOVELS}}. I'm going to be away for the weekend, but once I'm back next week I'm looking forward to getting to work! --JayHenry 20:21, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:WalterScott QuentinDurwood.jpg

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Non-free use disputed for Image:WalterLord ANightToRemember.jpg

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Fair use rationale for Image:WallyLamb ShesComeUndone.jpg

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Fair use rationale for Image:WallyLamb IKnowThisMuchIsTrue.jpg

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Fair use rationale for Image:VictorHugo TheManWhoLaughs.jpg

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Fair use rationale for Image:VernorVinge RainbowsEnd.jpg

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Today's BetacommandBot messages

Hi. I've given all your images that BetacommandBot tagged today (the 14th) rationales. I hope you don't mind :p I tagged Image:WalterScott QuentinDurwood.jpg as {{PD-old}}, so you might want to change the tag if I've gotten that one wrong.--Bláthnaid 14:33, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Sparknotes References?

Hi, I'm a new user and I'm wondering whether it's permissible to cite Sparknotes or Cliffsnotes as references in an article about a novel. --Massyold 23:16, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Dark Wind Blowing

Hi Kevinalewis

Hope you don't mind but I have undone the edit you did to the Wikipedia page I set up for my students to create for a class assessment task. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Wind_Blowing

I am trying to teach students how to use Wikipedia; how encyclopedias are valued in new ways, why text is valued academically etc.

They are going to create literal intertextual links that create an encyclopedic record of texts on bullying using their references from this text.

If you could leave the headings in place I would really appreciate - I am planning on starting with students over the next few days and building up over the next term ( 11 weeks).

(Ccb2007 11:28, 16 July 2007 (UTC))

Dark Wind Blowing

I appreciate your criticisms, however, if Wikipedia is a public space where encyclopedia references can be created than I do not see how my students developing an encyclopedic entry is any different to any of the other entries or edits on novels such as Fahrenheit 451, Brave New World etc. Everything has to start somewhere. I feel as if I am being censored here - not what I thought the role of Wikipedia was.

I regularly present at ICT conferences on Wikipedia supporting it when other academics howl it down - I am trying to support this concept not destroy it!

This page is meant to be a very sophisticated, accurate exercise and I would appreciate the chance to create and develop the page without the work being removed before ( or during) students work develops.

Can I please ask you to indulge us and allow the headings to be replaced - even if it goes against your personal design and rationale for the entry?

Ccb2007 11:55, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Dark Wind Blowing

Whilst the headings are showing up when I go to edit the whole page they are not showing when I open the page. Can this please be adjusted ( or can you inform me how to ensure it is so, so that students can edit each section separately please?

I am happy to put in any templates you wish that meet your Wiki Novel Project for students to complete as part of their work.

Ccb2007 12:20, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Dark Wind Blowing

Thank you.

bassoon user boxes

Hey thanks for cleaning those up some more, they were kinda disorganized before, and I tried to fix them a little, but I knew it was a bit...hacked. ;) Bassgoonist Talk 19:44, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Unspecified source for Image:AxelTeichmann_promo.jpg

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Infoboxes

I appreciate your efforts to improve the infoboxes on a series of articles that I have edited (such as A Vindication of the Rights of Woman and Maria: or, The Wrongs of Woman)), but I'm afraid that you are only introducing errors. For example, I have linked to Kingdom of Britain rather than United Kingdom in many articles because that page is more historically relevant; the books were not published in the "United Kingdom" since it didn't exist yet. Also, please stop inserting "Hardback and paperback" into eighteenth-century infoboxes. No books in the eighteenth century were printed in either hardback or paperback. Binding was done separately from printing, often at the reader's request. Thanks. Awadewit | talk 10:48, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Re: your edits to Runaround

Hi, just noticed your amendments to the article on the Asimov short story Runaround. No problem with the edits you've made, but I am curious as to your reclassification of the article as a stub. As far as I can find, there isn't much else that could be expanded upon in there.

I'm interested in getting a bunch of Asimov short story articles up to scratch, so any hints you may have on this one would be appreciated. Thanks. - Liquidfinale 10:09, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Many thanks for the advice. And I'll have a look into my reasonably extensive library of Asimov paraphernalia for reviews and reactions to this and his other stories. Liquidfinale 19:59, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Non-free use disputed for Image:TonyEarley JimTheBoy.jpg

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Fair use rationale for Image:TomClancy RainbowSix.jpg

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Non-free use disputed for Image:WRF RallyCry.jpg

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AutoWikiBrowser v4 Alpha Released

Hey Guys, We've packaged up a new version of AWB based on the latest SVN version. Logging now works, amongst other things

AutoWikiBrowser4000r1480.zip

Bug Reports to the usual places

Thanks,

The AutoWikiBrowser Team

Reedy Boy 16:01, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Yup, something like that! Reedy Boy 18:25, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Pages for Attention

What is the current state of updates to the Pages for attention project. :: Kevinalewis : ^{(Talk Page)}/_(Desk) 14:06, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

any update on this - very quiet :: Kevinalewis : ^{(Talk Page)}/_(Desk) 14:13, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Sorry for my lameness. Pearle needs a complete rewrite to adapt to Mediawiki changes, which I expect will get done the week of July 30. -- Beland 18:43, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image (Image:BernardCornwell SharpesFury.jpg)

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Image copyright problem with Image:Asia_SilentNation.jpg

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Re: AWB and Kingbotk Plugin

Good, thanks for letting us know. I think we are not far off releasing it properly now!

It should, in theory, be something fairly similar to what it was before, just its part of AWB now, not part of Steve's plugin.

There are a couple of minor tweaks and such that need doing, and some that have been done, but its not like its completely broken or anything!!

10:55, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Non-free use disputed for Image:TimLaHaye TheRising.jpg

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Non-free use disputed for Image:TimLaHaye Assassins.jpg

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Unusual Adoption Request

Hi! Im an English teacher in Toluca Mexico (west of Mexico City). My Advanced B classes will be contributing to Wikipedia as the focus of their English course for Fall 2007. I am looking for people who would like to mentor my students (who will be working in groups) as they do the following assignments: Edit and article (adding a citation), writing a stub with a citation, translating an English language article for Spanish Wikipedia and for the final project, writing a full article for English Wiki (they can expand on the stub mentioned previously). What I would like to do is put a list of "mentors/adopters" on my talk page as a kind of short cut for my students, who have limited time to get things done. The semester begings Aug 6, but the real Wikipedia work wont begin until the beginning of Sept. If you would like to add your name to my list, please go to my talk page and add it there, perhaps with a short introduction, if you like.

Thank you!

Thelmadatter 20:15, 26 July 2007 (UTC)Thelmadatter

Fair Use Rationales for Image:Soul Harvest.jpg & Image:Apollyon.jpg

Hi,

I noticed that you updated my images for these books with other bigger ones but you did not insert a fair use rationale, could you take a couple of moments to do that?! I do not know where you got these images from so I can't do it myself and Wikipedia admins are real sticklers about these rationales. Thanks. HeMan5 03:34, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:EmersonLakePalmer_Album.jpg

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The Novels WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XV - August 2007

Archives | Tip Line | Editors

The Novels WikiProject Newsletter
Issue XV - August 2007

Project news

During July we passed the 13,000 mark for articles tagged as within the scope of the WikiProject.

Member news

The project has currently 248 members, 8 joined & 0 leavers since the last newsletter at the start of July 2007

Other news

Book cover images are discussed at large on WikiProject_Novels/GeneralForum.

Novel related news

Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows, the seventh and final book in the Harry Potter series by J. K. Rowling, is released worldwide in July.

Current debates

On {{Infobox_Book}} we have new debates on ISBN format and coding ideas. Also we have the possibility of making or asserting COinS usage, for those who know more about this please get involved.

From the Members

Welcome to the fifteenth issue of the Novels WikiProject's newsletter! Use this newsletter as a mechanism to inform yourselves about progress at the project and please be inspired to take more active roles in what we do.

We would encourage all members to get more involved and if you are wondering what with, please ask.

Kevinalewis : ^{(Talk Page)}/_(Desk), Initiating Editor

Collaboration of the Month

This month's Collaboration has been selected by popular vote and is The Plague.

Newsletter challenge

Last month's As For Me and My House challenge was getting left so I Kevinalewis (talk · contribs) had a pop at it. Please add anything you can find about this important work of Canadian literature. .

The first person to start the article is mentioned in the next newsletter. This month's article is Jules Verne's 1897 novel The Sphinx of the Ice Fields.

To stop receiving this newsletter, or to receive it in a different format, please list yourself in the appropriate section here.

This is an automated delivery by grafikbot 14:46, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Notification of discussion: Guideline/policy governing lists

Given your extensive Wikipedia experience, I'd appreciate your input on the following:

User:Sidatio/Conversations/On list guidelines

Thank you in advance for any thoughts you may have on the topic. Sidatio 01:11, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Patriot Games

My apologies. I STAND CORRECTED AND FEEL LIKE A TOTAL BUFFOON. I WAS REFERENCING THE MOVIE (AS SHOWN IN MY ERROR) AND NOT THE NOVEL. YES, I'M SHOUTING BECAUSE I FEEL SO STUPID! SORRY AGAIN! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Conchchowder0 (talk • contribs) - 16 August 2007

WikiProjectNovels

Wow, I lose at noticing comments I've got. I don't actually remember where I found the older/wrong template, but I thought it was on the project page. Maybe it wasn't!Katharineamy 19:09, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Book vs. Short story infobox template

Hello, Kevin. I noticed you changed a bunch of the infoboxes on the Poe short stories I watch into the short story infobox template. I had changed them to the books infobox so that the illustration could show up; this was actually discussed on the short story task force page, and I believe you were the one that suggested it. I still strongly think that the short story infobox could use an image field and that would solve the problem. Anyway, is this okay? --Midnightdreary 15:01, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Hmm... I didn't realize the intention for that image field was first covers from first editions. I was under the impression, though, that it's usually preferable to have some kind of image on the upper right corner at the top of each article (I got that in a peer review recently). So in this case, should I just move these illustrations to somewhere else in the article? --Midnightdreary 15:59, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Journey to the Center of the Earth book cover

Hi, I have replaced the book infobox image on Journey to the Center of the Earth with a PD image, moving Image:JulesVerne AJounreyToTheCentreOfTheEarth.jpg down further. Do you recall where you obtained that picture from? if it is PD, we can move it to Wikimedia Commons. John Vandenberg 07:55, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

No, I can't remember, probably an old Ebay sale and it isn't a particularly significant edition. Certainly not first. The edition you have put up is about as close as we are likely to get to 1st. So I would stick with that. :: Kevinalewis : ^{(Talk Page)}/_(Desk) 08:19, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

WP:WARRIORS

Hi, a while ago on my talk page you said that you might be able to help with the template currently used for WP:WARRIORS. Well I was wondering if you could put an area where people can put assesments for the article similar to what {{NovelsWikiProject}} has. I really have no idea how and only know super basic stuff, and would really appreciate it if you could help out. Thanks, Bella Swan_(Talk!) 12:50, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

As an assesment section I meant a place where you would put what you think your ratings/class would be for the article (such as A class, B class and so on) and how important it would be on the importance scale. Bella Swan_(Talk!) 13:04, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

So basically yes, that is all I was thinking that would be added to the template. Bella Swan_(Talk!) 13:09, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

I wasn't thinking of a page so much as just getting the template done, and I don't think there's that many articles in the WP to make a whole worklist page. On the WP:WARRIORS page there's just a small section labeled 'Assesment' and I think that's all we'll need pagewise. Bella Swan_(Talk!) 18:30, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure if it's this simple, but couldn't you just find the spot in the {{NovelsWikiProject}} templete where the HTML is the part where it talks about the Assesment and just copy and paste it into the current WP:WARRIORS template? I don't know that much about it, but I just thought I'd ask. Bella Swan 02:29, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

I have made the changes I believe are necessary for the support of a few extra parameters, the two main ones are "class" for the quality assessments and "priority" for the urgency, priority or importance assessments that some projects use. I have left in code for "attention" and "auto" should you wish to use those. Hope it all works and this of use to you all. :: Kevinalewis : ^{(Talk Page)}/_(Desk) 10:25, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

There is end to my thanking you for the AMAZING work you did with that template. I fixed a couple liks but other than that it was awesome! - Thank you so much!!!! -Bella Swan 19:41, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Stub?

Hi, and thanks for categorising the article on Anna Lombard. Although I've mentioned this to you before and no longer mind, I can assure you that it is not a very pleasant feeling that, after having exhausted nearly every possible source, you are informed that you have written a "stub", ie "at best a brief, informed dictionary definition" (criterion: "usually very short, but can be of any length if the material is irrelevant or incomprehensible") where "any editing or additional material can be helpful", something which "may be useless to a reader only passingly familiar" with—well, with what really? If Anna Lombard is a stub, what is The Story of a Modern Woman?

I can assure you that there is not a single book anywhere, let alone an encyclopaedia, where you will find more detailed information. Only if someone hosted a symposion on the New Woman novel with special emphasis on Cross's novels, invited all leading experts in this field, they actually came and everything they said were published (so that it meets our "referenced" criterion), only then could substantial additions to this article be made.

Of course I'm not just talking about articles I have written. For example, I recently came across The Marrow of Tradition, which you also classified as "Stub". Why?

I'm not asking you to change the rating to "Start" class. I'd rather you explained to me in some detail what I ought to have done to achieve at least "Start class" status: Should I have asked other contributors to join in? Should I have included a "list of characters" which on the one hand repeats information already given in the article and on the other hand, to the confusion of the reader, mentions characters who I have left out altogether in the plot summary? Should I have referred to more individual contemporary reviews? Or should I have written a longer, or even much longer, plot summary, mentioning how often Ethridge throws up in the course of one night when he has an infection (just once) or how he first learns that Anna Lombard is sleeping with her servant (he stands under her open window in the middle of the night and wants to serenade her but before he gets started he hears unambiguous noises oozing out of it)? Is longer always better?

Let's suppose—just a thought experiment—it were my ambition to turn Anna Lombard into a "Featured Article" or at least a "B-class" article ("commonly the highest article grade that is assigned outside a more formal review process"). What would I have to do? Wouldn't it be virtually impossible? (one of the few rhetorical questions I have ever asked) Does this mean that by introducing this kind of categorisation we have bitten off more than we can chew? In other words, what's the point of having all those categories if it is impossible to live up to the expectations set by them? If I can't convince Melisa Brittain to contribute referenced, NPOV material to this article, I predict that there will not be a single substantial edit until at least 2017, that all subsequent edits will be the usual—disambiguating a word, changing categories, changing categories again, adding a template here or stupid tags like "free image needed" there (who needs one?), changing to American spelling, "cleanups", etc. etc.

Best wishes, and keep up the good work <K F> 17:03, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Proposed deletions (WP:PROD)

Hello. When you removed the PROD nominations from Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Novels you indicated in the edit summary "move to forum". What forum were you referring to? I'm collecting information on preferred discussion fora for this deletion path across WikiProjects at User:Ceyockey/Notifying WikiProjects of Deletion Proposals and I want to update that information so it is relatively accurate. Thanks. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 10:52, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for the information; I will put any future notifications on the page Wikipedia:WikiProject Novels/GeneralForum. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 11:18, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

For your info:

Salvadore Allende is Isabel Allende's Uncle, not cousin once removed And Eva is Spanish, meaning life. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xiaop (talk • contribs) 09:17, August 29, 2007 (UTC)

Actually, Haviva is one of the Hebrew words for "life", because (to paraphrase the Bible) Eve was the mother of all the living. Eva is just a Spanish transliteration, part of the Haviva/Eve name family. "Vida" is Spanish for "life". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.185.187.46 (talk) 23:49, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Ascent (novel)

Isn't it also science fiction? Bob aka Linuxlad 16:36, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes :: Kevinalewis : ^{(Talk Page)}/_(Desk) 08:20, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

Hi, Kevin. I like your ad very much. Unfortunately, we cannot accept a fair use image for the ads, which I think the books are. I can make a substitute banner with free images such as Image:Books-aj.svg_aj_ashton_01.svg and Image:Nuvola_apps_bookcase.png. For now, I am removing it due to the fair use concern. Thanks for understanding. Miranda 01:09, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

I saw the image that you used, and it was free. For future use on making ads, please list all of the images you use in order to prevent confusion. Thanks. Miranda 02:42, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

In response to your communication yes if you could make a replacement we would be very grateful - thanks. :: Kevinalewis : ^{(Talk Page)}/_(Desk) 07:51, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Image is hosted on commons. Will respond here later. Miranda 09:53, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Newsletters

I've noticed you've made some newsletters for the wikiproject. I have recently founded a wikiproject myself, and I was wondering if you'd know any base templates to work off or where they could be found. Thanks a lot.--CyberGhostface 03:09, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Alright, thanks.--CyberGhostface 11:46, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

WP:Novels newsletter

The September newsletter looks fine. I have nothing to add. Send it out. feydey 20:46, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Wollstonecraft category

Thanks for helping to categorize the Mary Wollstonecraft pages, but I don't think that there are enough articles to justify an entire category for her books - I think that the navbox is more than adequate for that purpose. Also, she only wrote two novels - that is definitely not enough for a category. I think it would be best to delete these categories. Awadewit | talk 16:22, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

If nothing else the "Works by" category is valid. If you must, uplift to that! :: Kevinalewis : ^{(Talk Page)}/_(Desk) 16:31, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't see why the "Works" category is necessary. There are links to all of MW's works that one could easily write an article on in the navbox. Awadewit | talk 16:51, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

I have put the "Novels by MW" category up for deletion. Awadewit | talk 17:24, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Why have you separated out "Books by MW" in the category "Works by MW" when there are so few works? Also, why is Original Stories from Real Life considered a "work" but not a "book"? If we must have the "works" category, might we consider listing all of MW's works in the one category, since there are so few? Awadewit | talk 17:35, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Kiki Strike

Thanks so much for your help on clean-up for my Kiki Strike article. :) I'm a new member of Wikipedia and wanted to make some contributions. If there is anything else I can do to help, or clean up my article, please let me know (I've re-updated it with character profiles, etc.).

Also, I'm trying to insert an image for the page, but not having much luck. I was hoping you might have some ideas.

Anyway, thanks again,

--TokyoSummit (Raphael) 04:31, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Books/Works

I must say I find the books by/works by categories duplicatory. I think they should be merged to more inclusive "Works by". Has this been discussed, and how do you feel about this? Johnbod 13:24, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't find the definitions especially problematic, what bothers me is we have two huge categories that are very largely the same thing, except that in practise they are unpredictably not. Take Category:Works by Paul Theroux, which contains a novels sub-cat & a Books sub-cat. So the novels apparently aren't books. Except for eg Category:Books by Thomas Mann they are. Is there any point in maintaining a separate "books by" category? It seems as if at one point this was for non-fiction/drama/poetry works, but this distinction has broken down. There is certainly no definition on the category pages to help explain any distinction. Johnbod 13:47, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Those were just examples picked at random. The problem is pervasive. Some authors only have "books", others only "works". If we are to have both categories, logically each should contain exactly the same articles in most cases, as few "non-book" works have articles (drama maybe excluded). But then what is the point of having both? Johnbod 13:58, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

'few "non-book" works have articles', essays, short stories, excluded of course. Ok I don't pretend there is an easy solution to the problem especially when it is so large. However I am trying my best. "Works by" is the catch-all and when I use "Books by" at all it is mainly to isolate clearly 'book published' non-fiction material by the author. And this I mark clearly in the category description. Categorization is never an exact science, which is one of the things I rapidly learnt at Library School (I trained as a librarian if that makes any difference at all of course). The problem often comes where people use terminology so loosely in real life and categorization is an attempt to bring tidiness to this untidy world. Ah well we try our best. :: Kevinalewis : ^{(Talk Page)}/_(Desk) 14:16, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Isn't it simpler just to either remove the books category, by merging into works, or define it clearly as a non-fiction (+drama & poetry) category, which sits under works? Not that many essays, articles, speeches or poems or short stories have their own articles, or are ever really likely to. Johnbod 14:46, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes, they are, but technically "non-fiction" includes some poetry at a minimum. Maybe "non-literary" might be better? I think I'll draft a proposal in my sandbox & circulate to you and - Books Project, Literature project etc. Any other individuals you can think of? Johnbod 14:58, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

To insert another viewpoint here: I would think that a categorization scheme based around genre would make the most sense. The reason "Books" seems so odd is because it is not a genre. What about categories such as: poetry; drama; tracts; novels; short stories; screenplays; children's literature; essays; philosophical treatises; religious narratives, etc.? It would make far more sense to divide a writer's "works" into genres (which are hard enough to define) than to divide them into amorphous categories like "Books". It is hard to understand what a category called "non-literary" might mean, except perhaps for something like it has only pictures" - all prose and poetry is literary. (Also, I would dispute that not many poems or non-fiction works have their own page or are likely. The pages relating to William Blake's work are a good example and one could easily write an article on every poem in Lyrical Ballads. All of the philosophy written in the Western tradition is non-fiction and much of it also deserves its own page.) Awadewit | talk 03:04, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Those are all there. I think you are not really used to how categories work. Actually, I just discovered, almost all Shakespeare's Sonnets have their own article eg: Sonnet 88, but they manage to rather slip through the cracks, & are neither in Works by or Books by him. Look at Category:Books by author and the main books category. I was contemplating "Non-literary works by Foo", as I hope was obvious to Kevin. Legally at least all non-fiction is also literature, & if you can think of a better pithy phrase to describe works other than "imaginative literature", please let me know. Johnbod 03:13, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

I am fairly familiar with the categories at wikipedia (I usually spend a lot of time hunting through them when I make new articles). I am even more familiar with the literature categories since that is my area of expertise and I have spent time browsing through them. Unfortunately, they are very poorly arranged and not very intuitive. ("Books by author" is a good example of a poorly-conceived category - what is a book?) Awadewit | talk 04:10, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm not convinced that lumping together so many disparate genres into "non-fiction" is really useful to browsers. Beginning with "Fiction" and "Non-fiction" would create a tree effect and wikipedia categories are not supposed to be trees, apparently, although I think it is difficult to avoid this at some level. Part of the problem is, I think, that wikipedia hasn't totally decided what the function of the categories should be. Awadewit | talk 04:10, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't think Shakespeare's sonnets have really slipped through the cracks: they are in "Shakespeare's sonnets" which is in "Poetry of William Shakespeare" which is in "William Shakespeare". "Shakespeare's sonnets" are also in "William Shakespeare" (as well as several other broader categories). That seems quite logical to me. Awadewit | talk 04:10, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

All here seems reasonable although "Poetry by " should by under a "Works by " category rather than the eponymous category you mention, other than that it all seems ok. :: Kevinalewis : ^{(Talk Page)}/_(Desk) 07:17, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Exactly, they are not in either Works by or Books by Shakespeare, supposedly the two alternative main Author categories - in fact I don't think there are such categories for WS. There should certainly be Works by. I have begun a Proposal on all this, which I am still pondering, but would welcome comments (strictly to the point Awa, and having carefully read what is being said) on at: User:Johnbod/Books v Works. Awa is right that the roles of these categories just aren't clear. Johnbod 11:19, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

I have added the "Works by" for the William Shakespeare items mentioned as this seems obvious. :: Kevinalewis : ^{(Talk Page)}/_(Desk) 11:57, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Re: Kiki Strike + Novels WikiProject

Yes, the image is on the web - thank you. :) I would be able to get images of both the first and the second book (The Empress' Tomb), and would be able to continue the article or write a new one. Whichever you think might be more suitable (you seem a lot more experienced than me). xD

And thanks again for your extra-cleanup on the article plus the ISBN. I'm really grateful for that. :D

Also, the Novels WikiProject: I'm really happy about this - and happy to accept the invitation. :) I'm really grateful. It should mean me getting started right away. :D

Anyway thanks again,

--TokyoSummit (Raphael) 20:51, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Category:Novels by David Brin, etc.

A couple of comments on your recent reversions of my recent edits:

1. I am not persuaded by your reason for removing Category:Works by David Brin from Category:David Brin. If you think that Category:David Brin should not exist, there are procedures for getting it deleted. As long as it continues to exist, however, Category:Works by David Brin should clearly be a part of it. --Paul A 08:12, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I could go with that for now, I don't have much an issue with this myself I was just trying to be consistent with the many removals of such eponymous categories that have come up for review recently, to my knowledge they have very nearly all been decided against. :: Kevinalewis : ^{(Talk Page)}/_(Desk) 08:33, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

2. I don't understand why you say that "Novels by..." and "Short story collections by..." should not be subcategories of "Books by...". Are novels not books? Are short story collections not books? (I have noticed your attempt to redefine the "Books by..." categories as being about non-fiction books only, but this goes against what I understand the "Books by..." categories to be for. If my understanding is incorrect, can you show me where in Wikipedia it says so?) --Paul A 08:12, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

No, Novels are certainly not books they are most often delivered "in" book form. Novels can be delivered in Audio form, and in print they can be serialized in newspapers of magazine, on-line etc. Of course the normal form is by book but that doesn't by definition make them one. I understand your concerns however and I am attempting to unravel a very large tangle where numbers of literary works are called books when clearly they are not. Short stories, Essays, Letters, are some of the most obvious. Also saying a literary work is a book is almost like calling such a work writing, it says almost nothing about it beyond the obvious. So if we kept on assigning "Novels by" and Short story collections by" categories to "Books by" then we would need to be consistent, however when such items in those categories are not delivered by "book" we would then be lying. By putting such categories in "Works by" we avoid that risk without reducing the level of information to the reader. We are left with the anomaly of the "Books by" (probably used for non-fiction) category and some ideas on how to resolve this would be useful. :: Kevinalewis : ^{(Talk Page)}/_(Desk) 08:33, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Is this a widely-held consensus, or merely your own point of view? Is it, for instance, shared by the members of Wikipedia:WikiProject Books? --Paul A 08:40, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

I can't claim it is a widely held consensus. Wikipedia:WikiProject Books is itself a fairly quiet project and my activity has been extensive in this general area, mostly with the narrative prose interests of Wikipedia:WikiProject Novels. User Feydey is my most common contact with Wikipedia:WikiProject Books you might like to check with them. What I can say is that something needs to be done the current muddle is not doing wikipedia any favours and a clear logical scheme is what is needed. But it needs to account for an untidy world, a generally imprecise use of language and aim for clarity. So if we can work together to achieve consensus that would be good. You might notice a very similar debate going on above with some others. :: Kevinalewis : ^{(Talk Page)}/_(Desk) 08:52, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Fantasy Task Force...

Added for the next release - AWB 4.1 is due out soon... Soo.. Should come with that! Reedy Boy 21:16, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Re: Kiki Strike

Still having a bit of trouble uploading the image for the info box...

Still editing...

--TokyoSummit (Raphael) 21:28, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

The Novels WikiProject Newsletter: Issue XVI - September 2007

Archives | Tip Line | Editors

The Novels WikiProject Newsletter
Issue XVI - September 2007

Project news

During August we signed up to the WikiProject advertising facility {{wikipedia ads}} initiative.
Our tagged articles now number over 14,000 and more are being added every day. In reality the article count for our project scope is likely to be much higher so the more who can get involved and assist the process of improving the quality of the articles the better.

Member news

The project has currently 261 members, 7 joined & 0 leavers since the last newsletter at the start of August 2007.
A number of editors have signed up to our "task forces" without signing to the main project so the figure could be slightly higher.

Other news

Although many editors are doing sterling work actually working on writing and maintaining articles we could always do with more volunteers to assist with the project wide tasks.
Our Collaboration of the Month is in need of more suggested articles for our attention and more votes for those already proposed.

Novel related news

The eagerly awaited Fatal Revenant by Stephen Donaldson is ever closer now, due for release October 9, 2007 in the U.S., October 18 in the UK. As the second part of the The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, the Unbeliever#The Last Chronicles of Thomas Covenant it should seal the character of this trilogy as the closing set from this classic sequence of fantasy novels.

Current debates

One experienced editor has requested feedback on guidelines such as WP:FICT and WP:WAF. Check out his comments first and get your views felt.

From the Members

Welcome to the sixteenth issue of the Novels WikiProject's newsletter! Use this newsletter as a mechanism to inform yourselves about progress at the project and please be inspired to take more active roles in what we do.

We would encourage all members to get more involved and if you are wondering what with, please ask.

Kevinalewis : ^{(Talk Page)}/_(Desk), Initiating Editor

Collaboration of the Month

This month's Collaboration has been selected by popular vote and is The Firm (novel).

Newsletter challenge

Last month's The Sphinx of the Ice Fields challenge had quickly a short line about it by New Babylon 2 (talk · contribs).

The first person to start the article is mentioned in the next newsletter. This month's article is Susan Cooper's Over Sea, Under Stone, which currently is only a redirect.

To stop receiving this newsletter, or to receive it in a different format, please list yourself in the appropriate section here.

This is an automated delivery by grafikbot 10:39, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:AgathaChristie CatAmongThePigeons.jpg)

Thanks for uploading Image:AgathaChristie CatAmongThePigeons.jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BetacommandBot 15:08, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:AgathaChristie DeadMansFolly.jpg)

Thanks for uploading Image:AgathaChristie DeadMansFolly.jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BetacommandBot 15:08, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:AgathaChristie EvilUnderTheSun.jpg)

Thanks for uploading Image:AgathaChristie EvilUnderTheSun.jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BetacommandBot 15:08, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:AgathaChristie PerilAtEndHouse.jpg)

Thanks for uploading Image:AgathaChristie PerilAtEndHouse.jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BetacommandBot 15:09, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Image:AndThenThereWereNoneBookCover.jpg

You wrote on my talk page recently reverted an edit I did to the article AND THEN THERE WERE NONE. You substituted the current matching bookcover with the first edition cover of a book with a completly different title.

It is true that FIRST EDITION covers are preferred, but in rare exceptions, that is not always desirable. The title of this work underwent a number of changes (along with rewrites to the text) during the history of its publication. The original title in today's culture is 100% politically incorrect; as is the subsequent retitled TEN LITTLE INDIANS. The article is not listed under the original title, but rather the more neutral AND THEN THERE WERE NONE. The title on the first edition does not agree with the article, which may on first glance both confuse AND anger some readers -- the N word in the original title is ranked among the top 10 most offensive words in the english language. Some people might even mistake the image for vandalism. That book, like the recent flak about TIN TIN IN AFRICA, was the result of a blatantly and more openly racist society. In this day in age, such things should be noted further on and not placed right up front (ala TIN TIN).

You said yourself, the first edition cover is the laterary significant one. History is the record. The first edition cover image belongs in the history section. -- Jason Palpatine 06:25, 12 September 2007 (UTC) This User fails to understand Wikipedia's Systematized Logistical Projection of its Balanced Policy Contingency. (speak your mind | contributions)

I disagree with this "This User fails to understand Wikipedia's Systematized Logistical Projection of its Balanced Policy Contingency." statement you made when arguing this cover. Exactly how is seeking factual accuracy of the situation falling foul of this. I can't stand the opinions of the dictator's of the mid 20thC however that can't mean we never include them to illustrate the nature of the problem they brought to the world. I can say quite categorically I am not pushing a particular word. All I am seeking to do is accurately record history. "political correctness" in my view appears to be a euphemism for historical revisionism. What happened happened! Any encyclopaedia should be a record of it. If we "must" have another edition then the first US edition would be the next most preferable. Particularly in that it illustrates the dispute at the time. Also I would agree with Accounting4Taste the students of the controversy should at least have access to the visual information to see what the problem was. So again as a secondary solution the appearance of the cover (which is clearly borderline in content) later in the article would be helpful. Otherwise we get close to suppression of the truth rather than education, information and debate on the facts. :: Kevinalewis : ^{(Talk Page)}/_(Desk) 07:34, 12 September 2007

My friend, that is what we are doing. The book cover is still in the article. -- Jason Palpatine 13:52, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

This User fails to understand Wikipedia's Systematized Logistical Projection of its Balanced Policy Contingency. (speak your mind | contributions)

If we could find a 1940 edition cover for "And Then There Were None" that would I think be preferable. I have had a bit of a scout round but not been able to come up with one myself though. :: Kevinalewis : ^{(Talk Page)}/_(Desk) 13:58, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

If we could find a 1940 edition cover for "And Then There Were None", yes that would be a better illustration. If you do manage to find one, please do not upload it as a new file. Instead upload it into the existing Image:AndThenThereWereNoneBookCover.jpg, replacing it with the older version. I would appreciate it if you did it that way. Thank you. -- Jason Palpatine 14:05, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

This User fails to understand Wikipedia's Systematized Logistical Projection of its Balanced Policy Contingency. (speak your mind | contributions)

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Charteris mysteries

I replied on User talk:Paul A to your query about Charteris. To the best of my knowledge the only novel he ever wrote that was not a mystery novel was Juan Belmonte: Killer of Bulls which was a translation of a biography written by someone else. All his other fiction output was of the mystery genre. 23skidoo 14:29, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Mike Ashley (writer)

Wow, thanks for all your work on Mike Ashley (writer), so soon after the page was created! Awesome job. - Reaverdrop _(talk/nl) 19:06, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Laura (novel)

I noticed that you gave Vera Caspary's novel "Bedelia" a mid-importance rating and gave "Laura" a low-importance rating. As "Laura" is by far Caspary's best-known work (mostly, but not entirely, due to the movie of the same name) and has been translated worldwide and reissued many times over the last 60-odd years, I found this curious. The article is still in a rudimentary stage although I hope to peruse/incorporate some serious scholarship soon. Thanks. Jgreenbook 03:54, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks!

Thank you for correcting my current page in creation. I only had time that lunchtime to copy and paste the template before logging out. All my improvements are gradual. Thanks for removing the tags.

If you have any other format-related improvements, please feel free to help me. I'm a bit new to this.

-- _{Escape Artist Swyer} ^{Talk to me} _{Articles touched by my noodly appendage} 18:13, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

Thank you for your amazingly fast response to my assessment request and your helpful suggestions.--Opark 77 14:00, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

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Template:World Rally Champions

Hey. We need a better solution than a <br/> tag there, as this fix only looks good on certain resolutions, like 1280x1024. Any ideas? Prolog 18:26, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

I have explicitly "nowrap"ed a section of most lines so it now appears a bit better at most resolutions I try. Ok, for you. :: Kevinalewis : ^{(Talk Page)}/_(Desk) 08:30, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes, that seems to have fixed it. Thanks, Prolog 16:40, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the detailed explanation, I'll keep an eye on the template. It has really been a bad year for motorsport, especially last weekend. I was already very disappointed by Grönholm's retirement, leaving WRC as LRC (Loeb Rally Championship), and then one day later came even worse news about McRae. Prolog 22:44, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

PKD

Do you consider yourself knowledgeable about PKD? I am dealing with a slight problem introduced into the VALIS trilogy-related articles by User:Emvan and User:DT29, and considering they are no longer active, I could use some help. The problem concerns these two separate edits: [1][2]. As far as I can make out, these editors propagated edits to the rest of the trilogy articles, but they seem to contradict statements by PKD himself, are not supported by the accompanying citations, and contradict these two links: [3][4]. In the former, "Tessa Dick" states that The Owl in Daylight was intended to be the third novel in the trilogy, whereas in the latter, PKD himself states, "Timothy Archer is essentially the third novel in a trilogy of which Valis is the first and The Divine Invasion is the second; which is sort of interesting because each book is unique." Which is true? —Viriditas | Talk 10:14, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply. I'll sleep on it. —Viriditas | Talk 10:39, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Biographies

Just to point out that Category:Biographies is a redirect, not a real category. The category for books of a biographical nature is Category:Biographies (books). (I gather that this was considered necessary because categorization newbies use Category:Biographies both for articles about biographies and for articles that are biographies - that is, articles that belong in Category:People.) --Paul A 07:13, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Alan Bennett's The Uncommon Reader

What's the point, then, of creating a new category Novels by Alan Bennett and of classifying The Uncommon Reader as a 2007 novel as well?

Best wishes, and keep up the good work, <K F> 18:11, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Do you not agree that the work is a novella as the article description has it? In such cases it is normal to include novellas as novels (until, if such time as there are appropriate category structures for them that is).Also in such an established scheme '"work type" by' the count of applicable entries is not such a concern.

Thanks for the appreciation. Although we contribute in completely different ways and from different perspectives, that is one of the great strengths of wikipedia. I eagerly read what you write and find much that is informative and new to me so keep on, keeping on. :: Kevinalewis : ^{(Talk Page)}/_(Desk) 07:54, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

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Singerman list

Noticed you're contribution to the above: Could you contribute you're view as to the article's proposed deletion? You know where to click, write?

Best, and thanks, --Ludvikus 12:48, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks so much for your "keep"!!! Much appreciate. Ludvikus 13:21, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

So now I wish to award you an acknowledgment of meritorious Wikipedian Performance, like so:

Awarded to you for defending the knowledge-based conception of Wikipedia: The Singerman list!!!. --Ludvikus 13:31, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Hello

Thank you for welcoming me into the Fantasy Task Force. I'll help any way I can. If you would like to know more about me, just leave me a message! I am a high school senior in Texas, and I'm best at analyzing literary style, that is to say, that is my specialty... Anyway, Thanks again! Humbly, Masterfeatherpen 15:47, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Star over Bethlehem

Kevin,

Please could you advise me why you have changed the table I created last night for the Christie page Star Over Bethlehem and other stories. I'll phrase the question another way - could you point me to a standards page which state exactly how the info on the table should be structured?

Thank you--Jtomlin1uk 08:24, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Ok, based on what you had put I can see that the main response would be that the focus of the infobox (not "table" that's a general term) is the first editiont. So it is irrelevant to include multiple peices of information. the only exception is the media-type which records the "various" ways the novel etc has been released. This may not be as clearly spelt out as it could be but the various pages to look at are Template:Infobox Book where some documentation on usage appears. Also have a look at Wikipedia:WikiProject Novels/ArticleTemplate & Wikipedia:WikiProject Novels/Style guidelines#Infobox. I know these are lacking but it is only as we try to use them that holes in the descriptions are found and plugged. So if anything is unclear please ask or even augment the pages. :: Kevinalewis : ^{(Talk Page)}/_(Desk) 08:33, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

I see what you mean. Perhaps I could explain where I'm coming from with my use of flags in the table (which was an idea I picked up from another page - non-crime - which I've forgotten now). There are some twenty Christie books whose true first edition was published in the United States (e.g. The Mysterious Affair at Styles, Death Comes as The End) If one followed the rule that you only concentrate on the first edition in the country of the author's nationality, then you immediately start to break that rule when it comes to Styles where almost all reference works (and current paperback printings) quote a first publication date of 1920, which is true of the US but for the UK it is 1921. I've put on virtually every Christie page both the UK and US publication dates and this means that on occasion (and Star over Bethlehem is one of them) the dates match and I would rather be consistent in the page formats than create confusion by having different formats. The dates I've put in for the UK printings are pretty exact (in most cases for the 1950's and early 60's, exact to the point of the day of publication) and I'm currently investigating similar info for the US. When it comes to page counts of first editions, I've found a source for virtually all of the US editions (I already had the UK info) and was going to update each page with this soon. The removal of the US info on Star, if replicated on the other Christie pages, takes away that option. I'd like to reverse the infobox on Star to the way I created it last night (I have no issue with the changes you made to the categories)

Best Regards--Jtomlin1uk 09:08, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

The best way to handle this would be for the "true" first editions to be used throughout - i.e. regardless of origine of author. So edition information is the first one.

The infobox information should be fairly terse (i.e. minimal). Have a look at the "Publication details" or "Publication history" section for where to record information about the various issues of the title. :: Kevinalewis : ^{(Talk Page)}/_(Desk) 09:16, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Right, I'll go back and delete all of that info then. To comply with such standards and to be consistent, I'll also delete all of the images of the UK first editions when the US first was the true first.

Many thanks--Jtomlin1uk 09:21, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

I'm not saying all the info needs deleting just arguing for a change of placing. Some of the focus of the data might mean some elements might go, but generally the 1st edition in another country is of some note so should appear, but later in the article. All the best and thanks for your editing work. :: Kevinalewis : ^{(Talk Page)}/_(Desk) 09:24, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Soory - didn't mean delete! Bad choice of words on my part!--Jtomlin1uk 09:26, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Novel

Hi Kevin, I constantly see you working on the novel related pages I have on my watchlist. Could you help me as a native speaker and read the new intro I wrote for that article (I know, the stuff following after 1750 is terrible - promise to complete that work later this year) - I just feel worried that I brought some German structures into the new intro... --Olaf Simons 18:22, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

I have made a few minor copyedit changes in response to this request. However the unfamiliarity with the scholarly material prevents me from intelligently going too far. However I believe I understand enough to have made the changes I have. One other thing, the phrase "it does with that restriction not solve the problem of a viable definition:" is a bit beyond me - the English is so obscure that I am struggling to grasp the intended meaning. Perhaps you could rephrase yourself and let me have another look or try to describe it's meaning here and I will again look at it. :: Kevinalewis : ^{(Talk Page)}/_(Desk) 08:20, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Hm... some plots are per se plots of the extended, epic genre. Snoopy wrote (in the example) a novel: a grand piece of epic, romantic fictionality - no matter how short and stupid it was. Problem is, however, that novels do not regularly offer these old and trivial, romantic plots. That's why we cannot give a definition of the subject matter... I see, I was a bit short here and thought the example would make it clear... I'll think about it immediately (and thanks for looking through my lines. I wish I had a native speakers feeling for what is right and wrong...) --Olaf Simons 10:00, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

I feel compelled to say that for a non native speaker of English you achieve very nearly the same results. If I could grasp another tongue to the same extent, I would be very satisfied. :: Kevinalewis : ^{(Talk Page)}/_(Desk) 10:03, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Gaia (Foundation universe)

Hey, I know this question is a bit late, but the comment you placed when you rated this article as a B class, it said it was in need of "third part references". What exactly are third part references? (I know, this must seem like a really dumb question but the truth is I just don't know). And any suggestions as to how I can get some information from outside of the Foundation Universe? I really can't think of anything. A review would apply for a book, but this is a planet in a book so I'm really stumped. And thanks for assessing it two times, BTW. --Slartibartfast (19 92) 22:53, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Interesting point. However wikipedia says that everything must be verifiable and not original research, so! All I can suggest is are there reviews, criticism, comment or books about the series that might include some mention of the various elements of the "universe" such as this one. I understand your problem, however this is basic to wikipedia. Otherwise it becomes fan cruft and don't think that is what you would want to be accused of for this type of article. All the best with your search. :: Kevinalewis : ^{(Talk Page)}/_(Desk) 07:45, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Well it wouldn't exactly be original research since I put in the two books where Gaia appears as references, but I do see your point in it being too centralized on the fiction of it. Maybe I can search for any works inspired on it, or something that has to do with this particular planet that's not so in-universe. Thanks for your time and thanks for the luck on my search-I'm going to need it. --Slartibartfast (19 92) 21:45, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

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User talk:Kevinalewis/2007archiveQ3

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