Talk:Kevin Trudeau

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WikiProject Biography     (Rated B-Class) This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography. For more information, visit the project page. Biography Portal B This article has been rated as B-Class on the project's quality scale. [FAQ] More information about this article... The following comments have been left for this page: this article is continually re-edited by someone who wishes to cast Trudeau in a favorable light. He is an ex-convict w/no medical background. Suggesting there is controversy about his theories simply perpetuates the notion that his ideas have merit, making this entry another advertisement for his materials. I would pare this p.o.s. down to the nub. Less opining, and more facts. (edit) An appropriate infobox may need to be added to this article, or the current infobox may need to be updated. Please refer to the list of biography infoboxes for further information. WikiProject Rational Skepticism      (Rated B-Class) This article is being improved by WikiProject Rational Skepticism. Wikiproject Rational Skepticism seeks to improve the quality of articles dealing with science, pseudosciences, pseudohistory and skepticism. Please feel free to help us improve this page. See Wikipedia:Contributing FAQ. B This article has been rated as B-Class on the Project's quality scale. See comments WikiProject Cue sports This article is within the scope of WikiProject Cue sports, a project to improve Wikipedia's coverage of pool, carom billiards and other cue sports. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this talk page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
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[edit] Debt Cures, New Book?

I was flipping through the broadcast TV Channels and saw an infomercial with Trudeau promoting Some book about how to get out of debt, Debt Cures, Credit Cures , something along those lines, But it's not listed in the article. From the little bit of the Infomercial that I watched it seemed like a sort of conspiracy theory where banks, credit card companies, and, of course, the government are working together to be sure that people can't get out of debt. The book supposedly will help, and you can subscribe to a newsletter too. edit:oops forgot to sign--Compgeek86 05:35, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Actually it's just a repackaging of other people's information. He just claims he's REVEALING it. His weight loss book is really just Simeon's "Pounds and Inches" coupled with more FTC/FDA ranting. All the Debt Cures information, like "pay yourself first" has been on popular shows like Oprah, Good Morning America and more. Kinda hard to tkae the "'They' Don't Want You to Know About" part of the title seriously when you learn that little tid bit. TheDevilYouKnow 07:05, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Discussion of Debt Cures should include notice that the Trudeau infomercial advertising this book has appeared in at least both the USA and Australia and perhaps also the UK, but that such advice would always be nation specific and should only be provided only by an attorney or solicitor licensed to practice in that nation, preferably one who is also specialised in bankruptcy law. Links should be provided to readers to:

United States of America The American Bankruptcy Institute http://www.abiworld.org/

National Association of Consumer Bankruptcy Attorneys http://www.nacba.org/

Similar links should be provided to Wikipedia readers for the same types of associations in Australia and in all nations where convicted felon Trudeau's Debt Cure infomercial is aired. rumjal 11:58, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm not sure why his debt cure book is controversial. There are thousands of books that repackage information that is readily available. This entry is biased and I think it needs to be reworded.

Same as compgeek I ran across this show this morning. If you having seen it here's what it looks like. He had 2007 Playboy Playmate of the Month as one guest; I suppose the only redeeming quality of the show. ;) Anyway, he claimed he's received death threats for writing and promoting this book. Maybe these death threats are from customers, I don't know, but why can't the FCC regulate these infomercials based on some reasonable criteria? I don't think any of his products per se are controversial (as indicated above), but his pattern of activity is probably a good example of the types of people in the business. Maybe this should be the focus in the article. --THE FOUNDERS INTENT ^TALK 13:01, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] If only we took the time...

I was skeptical about Kevin Trudeau, but actually calling the FTC and judicial systems, for public information, Kevin Trudea has NEVER been found guilty of any wrongdoing in his dealings with the FTC and FDA, as the FTC was ordered by the courts to sign a document implying he has never been 'fined' or found guilty of wrongdoing. Look up any other celebrity who has beenfaced with criminal charges jail time, and you will note that the most prominent information within the first two sentences, let alone the rest of their articles, of said publications is NOT about wether or not they have been convicted or found guilty of crimes. Just a thought, who is funding the Kevin Trudeau wikipedia page? Who wrote and maintains the information and flow of information within it? The facts are the facts, and as long as Wikipedia maintains provably false and misleading information, it is just another worthless source of paid-for corporate media. Just my two, un-biased cents. I love Wikipedia! -Adam Jones Computer Sciences 68.0.173.185 22:01, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

First, Kevin Trudeau has not been found guilty as the cases against him have never reached a Federal court. Basically, Trudeau signs a settlement stating that he does not admit to any wrongdoing but he won't do it again. However, he HAS violated settlements on a couple of ocassions. The most recent being one example. The FDA, nor the FTC have NEVER been ordered by ANY court to sign ANY such document. In fact it's the EXACT OPPOSITE. As you can see in the article, including citation, that case brought by Trudeau was DISMISSED and the DISMISSAL was held up on appeal. Trudeau has made many claims the FTC officials are on record making such claims in the 2004 Stipulated Final Order. In actuality the statement was made by TRUDEAU. If there is ANY misinformation it's that which you are trying to spread, despite FACT. TheDevilYouKnow 07:01, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

UPDATE -- I forget to include that Trudeau's status as a convicted felon deals with his past activities such as credit card fraud. The statement is NOT in relation to cases involving him and the FTC. TheDevilYouKnow (talk) 21:48, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Random stuff by someone

... he recently informercialed "dept cures they don't want you to know about" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.11.73.232 (talk) 21:13, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Random Stuff by Someone else

Please clean up the first few paragraphs of this article. Trudeau is a snake oil selling carpet bagger of the worst sort but I suspect "Kevin "Steal Your Money You Gullible Idiots" Trudeau" comes close to a NPOV violation. As satisfying and well called for as the insults may be in this case they still fail to educate Trudeau's potential customers er, victims as well as a dispassionate recitation of the facts regarding this man. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.241.145.196 (talk) 15:27, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Billionaire Claims

It seems that some contributors have taken it upon themselves to inject claims of Trudeau's financial status without bothering to cite any reliable source. One editor even asked if there were cited sources for Oprah, Gates, Jobs, etc as the reason for the inclusion. Yes...The Forbes 400!!! I find it interesting of course that someone would feel the need to suddenly include this claim. It's funny because the 2004 Stipulated Final Order includes an Avalanche clause. If he made his MULTI billions in a mere 3 years, why was he unable to pay the winners of the IPT!?!

It is my belief that these claims are being introduced into this article (and other sites) to coincide with his Debt Cures book. Not only is it a means to promote his book which reveals secrets already revealed years earlier on shows like GMA, Oprah, etc., but to present him as some kind of financial guru. Personally, it makes me wonder if this is simple vandalism or if said contributors are acting as agents of Trudeau. TheDevilYouKnow 22:38, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Wow...amazing. I can't stand the guy personally. I think he should be put under the jail. I added the billionaire thing because it is a true and interesting fact, but also because I thought it might help to shock people about what a crook this guy is and how successful he has been at ripping people off. Are you always so paranoid about edits? By the way, google "Kevin Trudeau Billionaire" and don't just read the first page of entries. There are hundreds of pages of entries about this. Please table the paranoia, too. katherinewelles 04:06, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

If there are reliable sources for this information (which is a tall order - just because a tabloid like People magazine or whatever says it does not make it true), then fine. You can't keep adding unsourced assertions, and the excuse that some other articles make similar assertions without sources doesn't fly; the assertions should be removed from those articles as well until they are sourced. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 09:42, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

I too was unable to find one reliable source after about an hour or so. I even went back and searched his books (I have the ebooks as PDFs on my HDD). He goes on and on making claims about his wealth. He mentions making a couple million and TALKING to billionaires. I was able to find a number of relatively NEW discussions on forum where people randomly plop in "he's a billionaire". There's some info about Stanley Ho, whom KT teamed up with for the IPT. He's a rich guy. Again, nothing solid.

I do notice that Katherinewelles mentions HUNDREDS of sources yet can't give us ONE. Katherinewelles then goes on to ask where the sources are for Winfrey, Gates and other although I have already mentioned the most notable. So here you go. The Forbes 400 Richest Americans (lists their net worth) and Forbe's The World Richest People (again lists their net worth). Trudeau isn't on either list. TheDevilYouKnow (talk) 17:50, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

It was in the Boston Herald. Other sites have linked to it but the Boston Herald no longer has the article available on their site. Here is a link of another article that reprints the Boston Herald article and also gives the credit to the article being from the Boston Herald: http://www.backchannelmedia.com/newsletter/articles/2314/WHY-MY-SON-WENT-BAD-Trouble-Began-With-Adoption-Self-Help-Guru-Says OK so go ahead and click on that link and then come back and tell me I'm wrong. You guys are much smarter than me and stuff and much more internet savvy so I'm sure I am wrong and that article does not actually say it was from the Boston Herald. I also read a guy's blog where he talks about the Boston Heraldn referring to Trudeau as a billionaire. katherinewelles 05:14, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

This is a single source which you have failed to verify with all the other HUNDREDS you claimed you had Googled. While it does present the notion of BILLIONAIRE (which flies in the face of know facts about Trudeau's IPT pay out woes) it DOES NOT substantiate your "added the fact that he is a billionaire (MULTI-BILLIONAIRE). surprised this wasn't already mentioned!" edit. MULTI!?! Where did you find this? Also there are no other articles, even within the same timeline mention this billionaire status. It is also unclear as to whether this is information the author is provided or claims made by his mother. Now let's look at the 2004 Stipulated Final Order --

If, upon motion by the Commission, the Court finds that the Defendants’ or Relief Defendants’ financial information failed to disclose any material asset, materially misrepresented the value of any asset, or made any other material misrepresentation or omission, the Court shall enter judgment for consumer redress against Defendants and Relief Defendants, jointly and severally, in favor of the Commission, in the amount of twenty million dollars ($20,000,000); provided, however, that in all other respects this Order shall remain in full force and effect unless otherwise ordered by the Court; and, provided further, that proceedings instituted under this Part would be in addition to, and not in lieu of, any other civil or criminal remedies as may be provided by law, including any other proceedings that the Commission may initiate to enforce this Order.

Trudeau paid $500,000 plus handed over a luxury vehicle and a house to satisfy a $2 million settlement. Trudeau would have had to have made his [MULTI] billion dollars in as little as a year OR would have been subject to the avalanche clause summarized above. TheDevilYouKnow (talk) 20:58, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

So I proved he is referenced as a billionaire by a reputable source (the Boston Herald) and now you are saying I have to prove "multi" billionaire status. WEAK. So basically whatever I prove doesn't matter. You will just change the rules, sort of like a child on a playground who lost a game. Not going to play this game with you. I would rather find an actual child and play with them. You have some sort of personal problem with facing the truth that a crook charlatan can become a billionaire in today's world. Maybe you should seek help with that isssue instead of playing it out on Wikipedia. hey, I hate Trudeau. I wish he wasn't a billionaire. I wish he had nothing and was homeless to be honest with you, but that isn't the truth. I also wish Oprah was penniless too but I'm not going to go over to Oprah's page and remove the billionaire stuff because I don't like it. I will consider taking this matter up with wikipedia admins since I have found a credible source and you want to keep blocking edits in the face of that with flimsy excuses and new standards. I never put "multi-billionaire in the article, not a single time. I put billionaire. Again, Boston Herald article not my opinion. Unless you can find a printed retraction by them admitting an error then there it is in writing. Again I will mull this over for a possible formal report to admins. you are deliberately blocking what has appeared in print from a reputable news outlet. A source such as that is the only thing needed for a wikipedia standard. No original research--or wishes or opinions--are allowed here. katherinewelles 21:32, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

You are the one who put forth his MULTI-BILLIONAIRE status. I was also able to find at least ONE additional archived source which uses billionaire to describe Trudeau. However, like your own source it isn't recent (2005) and simply plops the adjective in there without anything to back it up. Most information from other sources is from Trudeau's own mouth but it is in regards to overall revenue over years from his supposed 60 or so "companies", many of which are now defunct and bankrupt (Trudeau paid out quite a bit in civil lawsuits)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,,1558471,00.html

However, unless you can provide a current up-to-date source regarding his financial status it cannot rightly be placed in the opening paragraph in the present tense. It should be easy with all those hundreds of sources you Googled. Otherwise it will continue to be scrutinized or removed by myself and other editors if there are no current citations.

One last item. The Oprah Winfrey article you mentioned contains no less than seven (7) citations in regards to her billionaire status. All of these are recent or refer to previous years. Bill Gates contains eight(8). Let me know if you need a count on any others. If you are looking for sources regarding Trudeau's financial status, you need only look to the IPT section and full article. There you will find a multitude of excuses and whining from Trudeau about his difficulty coming up with the money to pay the winners. TheDevilYouKnow (talk) 03:55, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Your excuses just keep changing, don't they? Now you are demanding that it be up to date. Who defines up to date? Is there a section you can show me in Wikipedia policy that shows the definition of up to date? 2 years is too old for you. If I find one with a year that will be too old for you. Then you will probably come up with a new feeble reason. So every references source on Wikipedia is something that was sourced within the past calendar year? Is that right? About the whining about paying, plenty of people do that even when they have money to pay. It's called stalling. Corporations worth tens of billions of dollars stall payment on claims all the time. I guess they are broke too? OK, next feeble excuse? Again it is hard to keep up. First you need proof so I give it to you. Then you say it isn't proof of "multi" which again I never once (never one single time) put on the article itself, only in the talk page. Then you say the source is outdated because it didn't happen last week.

Again: define up to date sources. If you do not cite this area in policy then you do leave me no choice but to re-write the article again with proper citation per wikipedia policy, and then if you edit it report you to admins for malicious edits and/or edit wars or whatever violation it would be known as. So show me the policy on how old a source can be. I'm waiting.katherinewelles 23:13, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

I have been reading through the article and it would seem that something more recent would be warranted. I agree with TDYK because if you read through the Pool Tournament citations there are numerous occassions in which KT claims not to have the money. During one interviewe one of the players makes the statement to the effect that if KT has as much money as he claims to be he should be able to pay them. Many of the billionaire assumption do in fact come from Trudeau himself. There is an interesting interview linked at infommercialwatch.org where he claims to have made his first millions before he was 18 and later set up something like 60 companies in 6 different countries with earnings of up to $3 billion (Gross? Net?). There are a number just like this. Most were Amway and Nutrion for Life and other such companies. In the face of contradiction I would like to think there should be a bit more solid info on his current status as a billionaire. After all you did drop in the claim as a "present tense description". All those other folks you mentioned all have up to date information regarding their net worth.

For the record you did in fact claim multi-billionaire and not just in the talk page. You titled your edits things like "he's a billionaire, no mutli-billionaire" and he's a "billionaire it's common knowledge" at no time did it seem you provided any source information other than that we should just Google it ourselves. Quite frankly if I had seen your contribs earlier, as opposed to just your comments on the talk page, I would have wrote it off as vandalism pure and simple. SIGNED -- Sorry about the rush job and any misspellinga or bad grammar. I'm at work guy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.22.123.107 (talk) 12:46, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

To the previous poster: if you could sign your responses with the appropriate approved and prescribed method that would be great. We are trying to follow policy to the letter here, remember? Again, for the (fourth?) time: I never edited the article itself to say multimillionaire. I may have put that on the talk page or the section for the reason of my edit, but never once would anyone have read the article itself and seen the words "multi" next to Billionaire. not once. do I need to say this a fifth time, or are you guys going to revert to another feeble--and utterly inconsequential--technicality with which to support your flimsy point? Just in case, here's the fifth time: the article never, not once, read "multi-billionaire" (at least not on my accord; I'm not sure what anyone did months or years earlier before I ever came here) I simply put the word "billionaire" in with the list of things that describe him. One word only. Check the logs and then make me explain it the 6th time. katherinewelles 22:46, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Might I propose some sort of balanced compromise? Perhaps a neutral statement which addresses both points. I.E., "Some publications, including the Boston Herald, have referred to Trudeau as a "billionaire." However, this has proven difficult to confirm, and Trudeau himself claims to have a much lower net worth." That would seem to address the points of both sides, which I think is in keeping with wikipedia's objectives of providing as much verifiable information as possible from a NPOV. -JBlinder 24.72.150.82 (talk) 04:32, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] University of Calgary claim

Is there any more information about Trudeau's claim that a University of Calgary study found the "final cure for diabetes?" This is one of his most frequently discussed claims of his by the media. I understand how Trudeau is protected under the First Amendment, but can he not get into trouble for making a claim that is so overtly false and attempting to profit from it? It appears to be an outright fabrication that he is getting away with. Clinevol98 (talk) 06:35, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

No there have been no updates in regards to statements made by Trudeau. I do believe that a number of his infomercials were re-shot because they included statements by Trudeau that the UofC was "lying" when they denied any such trials or findings were made. This isn't the first stop Trudeau has been caught with his foot in his mouth only to pull the spot due to libelous statements. There has also been no information about the lawsuit between Eastwood Biomedical/YungSoo Kim versus the UofC in the media. Access to those court documents require subscription or payment to access. TheDevilYouKnow (talk) 06:41, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. In a 20/20 interview, he was told by the interviewer that 20/20 contacted the University of Calgary about the supposed study. The University responded "there has been no study done at the University of Calgary in the last 25 years about herbal cures for diabetes." Trudeau then said he was shocked, saying that he had been in "an office in Connecticut" just a few days ago looking at the study that was in a "stack this thick" (used fingers to show thickness). He also said he would send the study to 20/20, which he never did. It sounds like the University of Calgary needs to sue him. Clinevol98 (talk) 05:02, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Also sounds like Wikipedians editing this article need to take a step back and remember that we are here to document, not judge. There is way, way, WAY too much editwarring going on in this article. Everyone seems to have a point of view, either to defend Trudeau or to gut him. That is not why we are here. We are here to reliably source the notable facts about this article subject, no more, no less, period. Clinevol98, I honestly am not picking on you in particular - I could name many other editors, you just happened to be the latest and I just happen, right now, to feel that this needs to be said; no attack or particular blame implied. We really need to start being actual encyclopedists about this article. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 10:05, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

me too, i am SICK of this bullshit going on with the trudeaubashers trying to use thes article's prestige on the internet to badmouth and slander mr. Trudeauandhis efforrts on this website. i recommend the REMOVAL of all the unrwarranted hate speech and anti-Trudeau commonts that aren't sourced in order to FINALLY bring this article to something aprpoaching dignity and accuracy. wikipedia is an NECLYCLOPEDIA, NOT A FRICKING HATE SPEECH ARCHIVEOF BIGOTRY AND LIBELS Smith Jones (talk) 22:49, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunately Smith Jones you have done more to hinder the your own progress. Time and time again you have removed well cited information because paragraphs or passages were cited and not every single sentence. You have stuck in at rand words like alleged, claim and slapped the label critic on anything that cast Trudeau in a bad light. You have taken a "let's reword or delete it no matter if it's sourced or cited because it apparently overshadows what few positives there may be". Read through the NPOV guidelines again. It's not about being wishy washy with articles. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.28.48.145 (talk) 23:19, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

i am perefectly willing to cooperate but the way rthis article stands is intolerable to the ethics of wikiepdai. Smith Jones (talk) 23:35, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

So, SmithJones, do you recieve a paycheck from this snake oil peddling asshat? Seems that you are really defensive of anything that is negative about him. It has been cited and is verifiable. Please quit using weasle words and taking up for a proven con man.SincerelyMustangSixZero 02:31, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

believe or nto not everyone is motivat ed by money and is it quite possible for someone to have an opiinoion different from yours without having some evil motive as you imply. i was under the impression that wikiepdia requireds GOOD FAITH, not the automatic assumption of BAD FAITH AND EVIL. i am trtying my hardest not to lose my temper with the constant barage of hypocrites hopping all over this talk page accsing me of the very same crimes that they thesmelves are quite blatantly committing. YES, i believe that kevin trudeau is more good than he is bad YES i believe that his health care claims are LARGELY useful if combined wit h a bit of critical thought NO i don tbelieve in a massive big pharma conspiracy but YES i do believe that pharmaceutical companies, like ALL large influentail groups use htier influence to try and slant mediaand government support in their direction. perhaps i am wrong about all of htis; perhaps you are right that Trudeau is a "snake oil peddling asshat" but THAT IS BESIDE THE POINT. the purpose of wikipedia is to record information culled form other reputable and notable sources to provide an info suppository. The purpose of wikipedia is NOT to make decisions for readers and NOT to make value judgments about the nature of ANY of its subjects. you do not see me going over to the pages of sceptics or other peopel whom i disagree iwth and actually writing out "HE IS WRONG BECAUSE X". the most we SHOULD ever say is "PERSON X says that HE IS WRONG IN A CNN INTERVIEW" or something of tha tnature. NOTHING MORE. Anyhting else is a violation of original research, NPOV, and other clauses in the wikipedia policy. Smith Jones (talk) 03:31, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Random injection of CRITICS

It would appear that whenever a claim is debunked or refuted someone feels the need to include CRITICS as if THEY are the ONLY ones mentioning these items.

The infomercials suggest that these subjects will be addressed further in the book, but critics don't believe this.

This sentence has already been changed by another editor but it shows a PERFECT example of my point. It's not only critics. It's his supporters too. Read through the book reviews or even the archives for this article and discussion. You'll see them leap forth with wild conspiracies that the information was censored from the book and that's why it's on his website because (as one editor put it) because the "Internet laws are different". It's poor attempt, not through evidence or fact, but a futile attempt to discredit fact by claiming the information comes merely from critics and skeptics. In reality most of us know it's merely people reaching for any excuse not to be labeled a sucker because they were duped once again by Trudeau. Any such random injections of CRITIC(S) or SKEPTIC(S) should be heavily scrutinized. TheDevilYouKnow (talk) 15:32, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Interesting point, TDYK. But wouldn't supporters who criticize Trudeau's book for this reason be, by definition, critics? Or at least former-supporters. Perhaps both? -JBlinder 24.72.150.82 (talk) 04:32, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Where did you get "supporters who criticize"? These people are not criticizing the books. They are making EXCUSES to explain the materials are lacking. For example when it's brought up that the book does not contain actual cures (though some would argue otherwise) or does not expose secret ingredients in food which result in addiction (Trudeau merely presents the age ol' quack claim that they are hidden behind flavorings but doesn't actually REVEAL them) supporter look for excuses. So it's not just critics who are saying it. His supporters are confirming it but trying to explain it often times with wild conspiracies. Critics are simply stating their opinion and raising valid questions. Skeptics are people that demand proof. They demand that you provide credible evidence to support a claim. Trudeau will not answer critics nor provide proof. He simply dismisses them or claims conspiracies and cover up or that he would be glad to provide proof but he would go to jail (baloney). TheDevilYouKnow (talk) 17:09, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] More sources if needed

I got recurring billing on my credit card, after the telemarketer told me I wouldn't be charged, and had 90 days to cancel the "extras" that they try to shove down your throat when you just want to order the book.

Anyways, I hired a lawyer, and he did a lot of digging, and I have a long list of civil complaints against companies that he was partner in, or was the person behind the shell corporation or whatever type of legal mask you chose (a rose by any other name... right?). Anyways, I got it all in .pdf's if this page needs more proof of his antisocial personality disorder. email me at honda_rabbit@yahoo.com its 119 mb. I'm glad he hasn't hired people to infiltrate this article and give him a positive slant. Right on, this guy is the reincarnation of enron. 198.70.210.88 (talk) 13:16, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Career

Should you not also include his involvement with undisclosed intelligence agencies, or at least his claim there off, as an aid in his financial success? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nadyes (talk • contribs) 12:13, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

dont bother unles you have any sources. Smith Jones (talk) 23:58, 7 June 2008 (UTC)???