Talk:Kevin Pietersen

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Contents

[edit] Neutrality

Has anyone updated the 2nd Test Match for the Ashes? He had 20 runs for the 2nd Innings, though I don't know what the 1st Innings runs were.

--- He made 75 at Cape Town, then at East London made an unbeaten 100 from just 69 balls. England lost, but Pietersen made sure it was a glorious defeat, smashing the last ball of the game for his seventh six to bring up his century. ---

--- He had a relatively quiet debut in the second One-Day International at Harare, scoring 27 not out from 47 balls with just one boundary, sedate indeed by Pietersen's standards, but an unbeaten run-a-ball 77 in the third ODI began to hint at what he could be capable of. ---

--- Pietersen was, unsurprisingly, selected for the full England one-day side at the earliest opportunity, for the tour to Zimbabwe and South Africa in 2004/05. ---

--- After England's 2005 Ashes triumph, the nickname "KP" is used to refer to Pietersen across the country. ---

--- NEUTRALITY, NEUTRALITY, NEUTRALITY, NEUTRALITY. this article is awful.

ALSO

pietersen was no "unsuprisingly" selected for the full england one day squad to south africa, and was, in fact, a last minute addition after the test series had finished.

Thorpe was not "struggling with poor form" - he was not dismissed in the Bangladesh series and had scored a vital hundred against the South Africans. I'm still at a loss to understand why Bell was preferred. It certainly wasn't on cricketing grounds. England has a history about this sort of thing (getting rid of your best and most experienced player because he doesn't get on with some of the management) - most notably the omission of David Gower from the 1992/3 India tour --- --- NEUTRALITY?? It's fine!

Neutral? This reads like it was written by KP himself, by far one of the most arrogant figures in sport, as much as I admire him.

I have removed the tag. Some of the points have been addressed and the others are incorrect. He average 22 in his last 6 innings against SA and runs against Bangladesh mean little. 62.31.55.223 03:15, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fastest 1000 in ODI matches

His 71 this morning means he has equalled Viv Richards record for the fastest to 1000 runs in ODI's. They both managed the feat in 21 innings. The record should be included and stats updated when the match has finished.

- Can we quanitify this in terms of number of overs/balls?

Certainly not overs, but you could possibly quantify in terms of balls if the the respective strike rates are known as of the 1000 mark. I had a quick look and not been able to find it yet. I'll have a longer loook sometime. As a matter of interest, if you just look at his performances for England, i.e. KP's innings for the ICC team are ignored, he did it in 19. --LiamE 00:52, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Endorsements

Is there any reason other than advertising for this section? KingStrato 22:23, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

I would be happy to see it removed. Stephen Turner (Talk) 11:11, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
Why? It is useful information. If ever hear Pietersen say anything about Woodworm I shall know he is being paid to say it. It is massively over-paranoid to regard this as advertising. Pcb21 Pete 11:24, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
It is useful information, yes, but it looks out of place...Nikevs 15:02, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] verification

What do you mean you can find no unverified facts? Given that there're five citations for the whole article I would suggest that the vast majority of the article is not verified. Have you ever read the verifiability policy? I am not going to go and put the {{fact}} tag on every unsubstantiated statement in the article, it's why we have the {{not verified}} tag for the whole article. Alun 17:57, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Do you seriously want a source tag on every score mentioned or something? Please point out what needs verification that is not verified by the sources already listed and I'll do my best to improve the article. The article may err towards pov but not unverication in my opinion but thats a different matter. --LiamE 21:50, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
The cites given include the Cricinfo article, which contains a great deal of information. If you can't be bothered to add {{fact}} after every sentence, why do expect us to add a link to cricinfo after every one? Please indicate which information is unverified. Average Earthman 18:36, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
I really don't understand why this is such a big problem, editors are responsible for verifying their own edits. It is not good enough just to give a list of sources at the end of the article, this does not tell us from which sources each assertion comes from. If unsourced edits creep in, then any reader will assume that these are verified from the list of sources at the bottom, when in fact they may not be. All statements should be properly referenced with in line referencing, this can be done in one of four ways, see Wikipedia:Citing sources#Citation_styles. Personally I prefer the footnotes style as it is less intrusive in the text (like this [1] than the harvard referencing system, which leaves a partial citaton inthe text like this (Bloggs et al., 2006). If you have multiple citations to the same source then you can name the citation like this <ref name="bloggs" >Bloggs ''et al.'', 2006)</ref> then you can use the same source again like this <ref name="bloggs" />, which will point to the same reference like this [2][2]. For example the article states that Pietersen's mother is British and his father is South African, you can point this to one of the citations at the end of the article, so reader of the article know where to look for verification. I strongly recoment you read the three policies on verifiability, neutrality and no original research, I have found them a great help. It's also worth having a look at the fact and reference check project and the reliable sources guideline. Personally I think this is a very good article, it might be worth sending it for a peer review and even try to get it up to the standard for a featured article. I am only pointing out ways in which I think the article could be improved.
You can then extract the citations like this <references/> and the citations will appear like this:
  1. ^ Bloggs et al., 2006.
  2. ^ a b Bloggs et al., 2006)

All the best. Alun 05:02, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Well I suggest you do it yourself if you're so keen on it. Average Earthman 07:53, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
The burden of evidence lies with the editors who have made an edit or wish an edit to remain. quote from verifiability policy, this policy is one of the three non negotiable policies, WP:V, WP:NOR and WP:NPOV. There is no need to be so aggressive. Please observe the assume good faith guideline and the wikiquette guideline. Wikipedia is a collaborative effort, surely we are all aiming for the same goal? Alun 09:38, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
It is a collaborative effort. But it seems a bit of a one way street. You are happy to quote rules ad nauseam but I havn't seen a single edit from you improving the article. Every fact in the article is verified by the sources so far as I can tell. --LiamE 10:20, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
And as you seem so fond of rules, try this one WP:AAGF. --LiamE 10:29, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
So should there be an AAAGF page as well? (joke) OK, if I have caused offence, as it appears I have, then I am sorry, it really was not my intention, I was in actual fact trying to offer an olive branch earlier, maybe it was a lack of skill on my part that I didn't do it effectively enough. The reason why I haven't added any constructive input to the article is because, as I said earlier, it is a very good article, I'm not sure it needs any more than a bit of tweaking (and that is just my POV, other may disagree of course). I did actually think that the suggestions I had made about improving the reference style of the article was constructive, at least it was meant to be, again I am sorry that I expressed myself in an antagonistic way. I will take your suggestion and reference the article in the way I usually use (here's an article fact and reference checked a little while ago Rosalind Franklin. If you find that you don't like it you can revert my changes and we'll leave it at that. Alun 12:05, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
I would say the Rosalind Franklin article goes a bit OTT on referencing for my taste - its begining to detract from the artcle - but thats by the by. If the same were done to any cricket article it would be the same ref over and over again which would certainly detract from the article. The cricinfo bio is cited in the first paragraph proper so what would be gained from citing it again after that? Most regular cricket article editors are meticulous with regards to facts and figures and this article in particular has come in for a lot of attention. Compare this article to other leading cricketers like Rahul Dravid, Ricky Ponting or Jack Hobbs for instance off the top of my head. If you feel that the style of referencing could be changed for the better on these articles and therefore cricketers articles as a whole the Cricket project would be the place discuss it rather than on one cricketer's page. The vast task of getting a bio up for all international cricketers is either complete or nearly so, so now might be a good time to look into what needs to be done next. Incidentaly the Donald Bradman, referenced silmilarly to this, article was denied featured article mainly on length and refs so things perhaps need to be changed/improved but across the cricket bios as a whole not just here. --LiamE 13:17, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
Ok, I give way to your obvious superior knowledge of the whole Cricket project on wikipedia. All the best, Alun 16:03, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Endorsements again

I've taken out this text from the "Endorsements" section:

Pietersen and other Woodworm players. Pietersen is also endorsed by Citizen Watches.

There's no need whatever for the external link, which is pretty much pure advertising. The Citizen connection doesn't seem notable unless there's been some newsworthy (not just PR-worthy!) happening that's related to it. Actually I'm not that happy with this section at all: what bat Pietersen uses might be of interest, but since it's directly cricket-related (unlike what brand of watch he wears) why can't that just go in an appropriate place in the bulk of the text? Loganberry (Talk) 14:41, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Why don't you have a look at the Tendulkar article or the Dhoni article? Endorsing a product needs to be covered as an aspect though i agree that it should avoid sounding like an advertisment. Kalyan 11:32, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Statistical updates

In order to contain the amount of on-going statistical updates, I request they be updated on a match-by-match basis, not run-by-run?

The stability of this article is an important factor of the FA criteria, so frequent changing to run totals etc will detriment this.

–MDCollins (talk) 11:08, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

I have reverted one update already - please wait for the source, in this case the cricinfo link, to update stats first. Having 'stats correct to June 6 sourced to cricinfo' appearing "incorrect" will not help this articles FA candidacy. When cricinfo updates their stats at the end of the match, feel free to update the infobox and test match tables, but remember to update the source dates. –MDCollins (talk) 18:44, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
I've mentioned a bit about his lack of form in the ODIs hope that is okay re: your above comments. SGGH speak! 15:47, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
That's fine - now it passed FA it isn't so much of an issue. I gave it a quick copyedit, unfortunately the 52 was Prior's not KP's so had to remove it! Seems a bit short now, sorry about that! –MDCollins (talk) 21:44, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] KP

Kevin Pietersen is often called KP (at least as much as Collingwood is called Colly), which is included in Collingwood's article so shouldn't it be included in this one?Monsta666 19:46, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

Look more carefully :-) –MDCollins (talk) 21:40, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reverse sweep six

Has the reverse sweep six (off Murali) video (and even its mention) been taken off from KP's article? What was wrong with it in the first place? - div333 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.177.150.49 (talk) 10:02, August 28, 2007 (UTC)

I was fiddling with my digital camera, and I managed to record the reverse sweep six. Unfortunately, as I was on the opposite side of the ground you can't see the ball on my video. KingStrato (talk) 07:43, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] International cricketers of South African origin

I would vote moving this from the See Also section into the lead, perhaps as a wikilink under "moving to England" or perhaps somewhere in was called up almost immediately into the national side. It's just that a See also section with one thing in it seems a bit impotent. Any thoughts? It just occured to me when I was updating the Sri Lankan part, because the See Also was right there. SGGH speak! 14:45, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Well all quiet on the answers front, I've gone ahead and done it. The link could just be removed as there are cats at the bottom for that sort of thing. --SGGH speak! 22:25, 11 December 2007 (UTC)