Talk:Ketubah

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On Dec. 14, 2005, the page stated that a ketubah is a marriage document, such that the bride and groom are married once it is signed. I am correcting this because the marriage is accomplished in one of three ways: the gift of money or its equivalent (e.g. a ring), the transfer of a document that says simply "You (the woman) are married to me (the man)," or cohabitation. See Rambam, laws of Ishut, beginning of chapter 3. Rather, a ketubah places a monetary penalty on the husband if he divorces his wife, or on his estate if he dies and leaves her as a widow. Jewish marriages do require the payment of a ketubah, but in principle the marriage exists even without the ketubah. In fact, the concept of Ketubah may be Rabbinic (d'rabbanan) in origin (see Talmud Ketubot 10a). - YechielMan

Hello to all. Newbie here. I wanted to get an editorial opinion on an External Link I would like to include in the "Ketubah" article. The link would direct to the following article that I wrote about ketubah texts:

Description of ketubah texts

Does anyone have any thoughts? Thanks for your help!

Aafish 20:40, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

I think this information should be part of the article, not only be available through an external link. How about you work that information into the article? I think that is much more desirable. JFW | T@lk 21:24, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for the suggestion. Aafish 01:12, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Examples

I have another question for the editors: I added an external link to a page that provides both Hebrew and English translations of the traditional texts. I am a ketubah artist, and this page is on my own website (where ketubot are available for sale). However, I tried to make sure that the page itself contains no marketing -- but let me know if this might be considered too close to "advertising".

I added this link, because it is something I am asked about quite a lot, so I thought it would be beneficial to Wikipedia readers as well. I added it as a link because the text is quite long, and adding it directly to the entry would overwhelm it. Thank you.

DanSroka 09:51, 08 December 2005 (UTC)

How good of you to ask. If you think the examples are representative of ketubot it would be a useful link. Would you be willing to upload an image of a "standard" ketuba to grace this article? JFW | T@lk 16:35, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

The page I linked to contains the two texts traditionally used for Orthodox and Conservative ketubot, so it is relevant to the topic. As for an image of a ketubah, there is such a wide range of designs possible these days. I think it would be interesting to have two images: a sample of a traditional design (the New York Public Library has many from the 1800s), and one like mine which is a sample of a more modern design ((for example: http://www.modernketubah.com/ketubahs.php?collection=2&design=8)). What do you think? Dansroka 19:47, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Lieberman clause/Conservative texts

The Lieberman clause is a separate paragraph that stipulates that divorce will be adjudicated by a modern rabbinic court. Its intention is to remove the issue of agunot, women "chained" within a marriage that has ended for all intents and purposes but left without a get, a writ of divorce. This paragraph has nothing to do with the language about the basic 200 zuz which is owed upon dissolution of the marriage. I made changes to reflect and clarify these points. Thanks, Ravb

[edit] Types of ketubah

Hello again. I added a few sentences and a link to this article in November of 2005, and I noticed today that the link has been deleted. The link leads to an article I wrote on the various types of ketubah texts. Before adding this information, I asked the community if the information and link were appropriate, and I was told that they should be integrated into the body of the article. This dialogue can be seen two paragraphs below. I would like to return the link to its previous location. Please let me know your thoughts. Thank you for your help. Aafish 21:07, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

The sentences on the various types should be reinserted as long as you have a good reliable source. The external link seems to be more an advertisement, and I don't think it satisfies our external links policy. JFW | T@lk 02:28, 4 March 2007 (UTC)