Talk:Kenny G

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The link to the University of Washington is wrong in the actual article... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Twudude (talk • contribs) 05:48, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Birthdate

I found various dates quoted for his date of birth. I added him to July 6 before I realised the confusion. He's listed as being born on June 6 on 1956 in music (and some online sources), and I saw another couple of dates quoted elsewhere. Does anyone have a reliable source? fabiform | talk 19:43, 9 May 2004 (UTC)

Logic dictates june 6th - making his birthdate a very appropriate 6/6/56 :) I'm guessing his place of birth was actually Megiddo -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 02:41, 28 May 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Most wanted articles

I must say that while I'm not a fan of Kenny G, it shocks me that we didn't have an article on him until so recently. Kudos to fabiform for filling the gap. Oh, and I have no idea when he was born. Isomorphic 05:21, 17 May 2004 (UTC)

I found him languishing on Wikipedia:Most wanted articles, which is quite a nicely random selection of articles to work on if you're in need of inspiration. :) fabiform | talk 16:32, 17 May 2004 (UTC)
There should be an article on the new album, Rhythm and Romance. I haven't heard the album yet, so I won't write it. Kenny G pitched the new album on HSN the other day. It's on Concord Jazz after he left Arista after 25 years, so I put that down.Sposato (talk) 21:01, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Which saxophone?

His bio doesn't say which saxophone he plays???

Though I can't garuntee that this is all he plays on his albums, but he is mostly seen (I've only seen) playing a soprano sax. The photo of him on the article is of him holding an soprano sax. La Pizza11 01:50, 20 February 2006 (UTC)
On some songs, he also plays alto and tenor. Andros 1337 16:22, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Genre dispute

By definition, Kenny G is a smooth jazz saxophonist, not a pop saxophonist. His music sounds nothing like pop music (i.e. Britney Spears). You will NEVER find Kenny G in the pop section of a music store, he will always be found in the jazz section. His main influence was Grover Washington Jr. I am not going to get into the argument whether smooth jazz is a valid jazz genre or not, but to remain neutral, he should be classed as smooth jazz. Andros 1337 21:52, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

very true, he is the exact opposite of pop music, people like usher, and the backstreet boys are pop, kenny g is jazz. the sax is a dead give away

Give me a break. Kenny G never improvises at all in his performances. His pieces are all arranged in advance, sax as well as orchestra, note for note. The essence of jazz is original composition inspired by a melody, usually a "standard," or popular song of some kind. Regardless of where record-store clerks happen to place his recordings, Kenny has never been a jazz performer at all. While some jazz performers, such as Ella Fitzgerald, have indeed made some--even many--pop recordings, they have also made many jazz recordings. The difference is in whether they improvise or not. Sinatra, for example, a consummate musician, has never made a jazz recording. It is not a question of greater, but of different.66.108.145.155 01:19, 13 April 2006 (UTC) Allen Roth

THE SAX IS A DEAD GIVE AWAY??? How ignorant are you? Sax is used not only in jazz, but classical, POP, rock, R&B and avante-garde. Jimi Hendrix improvises, does that make him a jazz musician? I agree with the adult contemporary genre but I strongly disagree that Kenny's music is jazz.

  • Pop simply means "popular". "Pop" music isn't an established genre, like Jazz. Any music can fall into that category. Anybody who doesn't think Mr. G is pop music should be shot.

THANKYOU! Fantastic comment you are great.

I would agree with the thought that Kenny G is not a jazz musician, for several reasons. One, as mentioned above, he does not improvise. While improvising is not limited to jazz, it is still an essential part of jazz. No improv, no jazz. Number two, in Kenny G's music, there is absolutely no musical reference to any traditional jazz arrangements, such as chord changes, melodic arrangements (i.e. AABA form), swing notes, and especially the blues. Although there are certainly wonderful pieces of jazz that are missing some of these elements, if a piece of music contains none of them, it ought to be disqualified as jazz. It also does not help that so much of Kenny G's music is synthesized. However, while his music is certainly not jazz, a mention should be put in the article of his prodigious talent in handling fast music.63.43.18.139 02:42, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't think that's quite accurate. A good deal of jazz is arranged, there is even Category:Jazz music arrangers. Although usually arranged jazz basically means big band not solo work. The other point you make I would have to agree with, in that very little of his music seems to be based in any jazz tradition not even smooth jazz. It rarely "sounds like" jazz of any kind. (Although he's had a few songs I think are jazz, most being when he started out) I don't think I'm being a purist because Candy Dulfer and David Sanborn "sound" more jazzy to me. Granted I'm not trained in music so I can't explain what I mean by that. That said I don't think he's pop either. He usually sounds more like "Easy Listening" or "New Age" and those are the sections where I've seen him. Not that I ever bought any of his stuff, but I'll admit he had a few songs back in the early 90s I liked pretty well.--T. Anthony 11:00, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Most mainstream jazz musicians do not consider Kenny G's genre to be jazz. There was an interview of Pat Metheny several years ago where he was very adamant that Kenny G's music not jazz. Kenny G is just like many artists who are chosen by the music industry to force on the public. His music is very cookie-cutter and packaged just like many "pop" artists. The public is inundated with these so-called artists on a daily basis on the air waves and in advertisement. People who are exploring jazz for the first time are sometimes lead down the path that the Kenny G's music is actually jazz. Many times because the music stores whether it's Tower Records, Circuit City or Best Buy place his music under jazz. All of the smooth jazz stations owned by Jefferson Pilot/Lincoln Financial jam Kenny G down the public's throat.

Silick\\ Whatever music means to you is subject to your intepretation of it, music alone is what is appreciated and the fact is that Kenny G is a very good musician who plays soulful melodies (my opinion) and arguing whether or not his music is strictly "jazz" in the traditional sense is irrelevant as music is constantly changing and the diversity it brings ought to be accepeted and even embraced. And to the subject to those musicians who are in the mainstream jazz are confining their creative flair by imposing limits on their music and others' by stating it must lie within a particular genre/chord progression/rhytmn. Music matters as expression, that is indeed if it comes from the heart and beyond that it as appreciation of the listner to identify/intepret the music and not judge it relative to musical classes that we force upon. Music simply is music.

FYI, I added a link to the article for the full text of Metheny's last comments on the jazz or not debate, Metheny changed his mind, sort of, while ripping Kenny a new one the size of a musical Grand Canyon. Tvccs 08:06, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

The fact that Kenny G categorizes his music as jazz is in itself an invitation for all jazz musicians and listeners to make the comparison between what jazz is now established to be and what Mr. G plays. Anyone who does this however quickly realizes how wrong he is. Kenny G's music is not jazz as established jazz musicians see it. Firstly, his music contains very little improvisation, which is a fundamental characteristic of jazz. He also frequently employs harmony which is characteristic of pop music, and rarely uses jazz associated harmony. He simply uses the saxophone as a tool for melody playing, just in the same way that this is often done on pop records. Many people who are ignorant to this do not realize the differences between this music and jazz and therefore believe what Kenny G says, incorrectly categorizing the music as jazz. For this reason there should be a paragraph about genre dispute and musical criticism, even if only to comment on the aforementioned contradiction and to let people know about this widespread misunderstanding.

[edit] Clean Up

Please, especially discog.


DRUMMERS NAME?????

I need some help please in locating the drummers name in the band of Kenny G's first album Kenny G, I believe the last name is Alexander, but not sure if anyone can help me with this it would be greatly appreciated..email to iveri_ma@yahoo.com, thanks so much....

teehee...i wud wike twee cookies to go, pweez! my gwandma is a cabbage and fushia is a purple dats a pink wannabe! ^^ -sweetiekins

[edit] Legitimacy

I think that the general jazz community would NOT consider Kenny G to be a jazz saxiphonist. Aside from a vast majority of jazz lovers (myself included) who think he is terrible, there are realistic aspects of his music (and I haven't heard all of it, so bear in mind I speak for a few tracks that I have listened, and the words of others) that allow him to NOT be placed in the realm of jazz.

--Gautam3 07:00, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

This page already has a lot of debate on the subject, and I added some detail with support on disdain for Kenny G in various forums to the article. However, much as I hate to, I'm deferring to Metheny here, who I thought addressed the issue well in his 2000 comments linked here. He explained why he went from the "not jazz" to "okay, most people think he is" position pretty well. He also did a great job of articulating, from a very knowledgeable point of view, just how bad he thinks Kenny G is, jazz, or not. Tvccs 08:04, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Longest Note

Why does this article claim that the man who broke Kenny's record did so by farting?


I didn't see anything regarding flatulence. I even did a search of the main page. Someone can delete this entire section labeled "Longest Note" when what I am saying is verified again.

--Gautam3 02:59, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

I strongly object to Kenny G being listed as a jazz musician. Is Cheez-Whiz cheese? Is Thunderbird wine? I don't advocate vandalism but if it happened on this article I wouldn't complain.

[edit] Large deletion in September?

I'm curious as to why Kenny G's whole discography, early life, criticism and see also sections were removed (and never replaced) back on the 25th September by an anonymous IP? Shouldn't these be reinstated? H4cksaw 15:29, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Musical Criticism

The original overview of the criticism paragraph was unsupported and so it was rephrased to match the critical material. The orignal was, "While Kenny G's entry into the smooth jazz market remains popular with the American buying public, he has come under fire from music critics and jazz devotées, leading him to be described as "the musician many jazz listeners love to hate." The phrase, "under fire from music critics and jazz devotees" did not match up to the actual criticism as only two jazz guitarists and the lyrics of a hip hop artist were quoted. In fact, I would suggest removing the entire paragraph because the individuals making the criticism are neither noted music critics, nor are they peers in the sense of being saxophone players. What do others think? The so called criticism from "Mos Def" in the form of a lyric from one of his songs was moved to popular culture. 24.27.200.205 23:55, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Kenny G, aka Kenny Gorelick appeared on the 1980 Lp by The Jeff Lorber Fusion "Wizard Island". He played flute, tenor and soprano sax. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.69.36.57 (talk) 02:10, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the info, but if you want it to go in the article you'll need to find a source for it I'm afraid. Cheers, -Panser Born- (talk) 08:50, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Why do people hate him? He has beautiful music. -Yancyfry

I must admit I liked him in the mid-80s to early 90s. Still I can kind of see disliking him. Although songs like Songbird are pretty a problem is that all his stuff starts kind of sounding the same after awhile. That's sort of a general criticism applied to most Easy listening or New Age musicians.--T. Anthony 20:06, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Of course most rap sounds the same. -Yancyfry

Please refrain from discussing anything other than changes to the article here. This talk page is not the place for critiquing Kenny G's work (or anyone else's, for that matter). -Panser Born- (talk) 08:56, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
Wonderful idea!! Why not leave out all criticism of Kenny G, notwithstanding the fact that he is well-known to be loathed by 99.99999999999999% of real jazz musicians on the planet. Good Christ!! Besides, if you actually wanted to make this into a Good article or higher (which I think is not possible, speaking as someone who has worked on 5 FAs and many GAs), you would be required to include extensive criticism. I do this with scientists and philosophers; I cannot imagine that no criticism of an artist can be found anywhere. Oh, the wacki Wiki!!!!!!!!!!!!!--Francesco Franco 09:08, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

What makes a "real" jazz musician? Sounds like a bunch of less successful musicians sour graping because they cannot sell as well. The entire article seems to have an undercurrent of hostility slanted towards criticizing Kenny G. For example not making the band on his first try, the emphasis on golf, the accounting major he was taking on the side, etc. Is it being implied he's not a "real" musician because he doesn't come from a musical family, doesn't devote himself entirely to his music, and didn't drop out of school to pursue this interest?


To answer the question of what makes a "real" jazz musician-there can only be one reply: If you have to ask that question, then it would behoove you to take some time and research the subject of jazz. However, it can definately be said that becoming a jazz musician has nothing to do with what family you come from, whether or not you devote your entire time to music (i.e. Branford Marsalis hates practicing, unlike his brother Wynton, who practices everyday at 4:00 a.m. for 3 hours) or whether you drop out of school to pursue the artform. There are many elements that make up a jazz muscian, but for me communicating musical ideas through improvisation, use of harmony, interpretation of melody and lyrics, and the ability to tell a story are the things that I think about concerning jazz. Try using this site as a point of reference on jazz. Of course, you cannot use it as your only source, as there are so many books on the jazz idiom. Better yet, go and get your Kenny G recordings, listen them. Then go out and purchase the "Love Supreme" or "My Favorite Things" CD's by John Coltrane. Then evaluate the differences that you hear.

I would not insist that there are no jazz players that are jealous of Kenny's sucess; that fact is neither here nor there. The point is that given the genius of a John Coltrane or a Wayne Shorter (not to mention, all the other instrumentalists who came before him), his music should not exalted as being one having any real kind musical depth or intelligenc that is usually experienced when one listens to a great jazz player or vocalist. It simply is a tool, used to entertain the massess. I would have the utmost respect for Kenny if he were to say as such. It is simular to an entertainer like a Jennifer Lopez, whose forte' is dance but calls herself a vocalist because she "sings". She may like to sing as a tool of her act, however it does not make her a vocalist in any sense of the word. 162.115.108.124 18:33, 28 September 2007 (UTC)Lisa, September 28, 2007162.115.108.124 18:33, 28 September 2007 (UTC)



By all means let's have extensive criticism of his musicianship. If his skills as a saxophonist are poor that's fair game but on the other hand if he is also a composer of his own music that deserves mention as well. Currently it says "many people" are critical of his abilities but only one source is primarily used to back the assertion.

I think the entire "What a Wonderful World" controversy deserves its own section if it's taking up half the Career section. Moreover is it really a criticism of his music? Does it belong in a Music Criticism section? Why? Also who is saying Louis Armstrong overdubbed in the performance? Armstrong was dubbed into the performance but whether it was overdubbed or not is a subjective call. Should Natalie Cole performing with her father or Celine Dion performing with Elvis arouse the same ire?

Edit: My apologies it seems overdubbing is a technical term and not as I had first interpreted it used in the sense of being overdone. But that makes me wonder even more what the gist of the complaint is. It seems essentially that the ire is there because "he trespassed on hallowed ground". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.127.91.114 (talk) 13:41, 10 September 2007 (UTC)


I don't think an entire section for criticism is necessary. Yet, I won't argue against it. However, the paragraph that is in the career section is appropriate because his decision to use Armstrong's recording is a career move. - Steve3849 talk 14:23, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm glad to see the Musical Criticism back in. This is clearly significant, and NPOV requires that all significant viewpoints be represented. Dlabtot 21:25, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
The quotes in this article are fantastic. IMO a very important part of Kenny G is his campiness. In fact, all fellow musicians I've known writhe in pain when a Kenny G song comes up. Sure, it's an opinion (like "Christina Aguilera is not a talented singer"), but being such a frequently-used measuring stick of lameness is very notable. When someone compares my playing to Kenny G, I can read this article and know it was most likely an insult. NorrYtt (talk) 10:05, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

I, amongst many others, am outraged by the fact that many people who edit this page prefer not to include the section about Kenny G's musical criticism. I personally know many devoted listeners to jazz as well as a number of professional jazz musicians, all of whom offer negative criticism of Kenny G's music and emphasize the man's negligible contribution to modern improvised music (which, in the case of musicians who correctly categorize themselves as jazz, would not be described as such).

As for the first paragraph of this section, the author is quite wrong in saying that the claims in this section are not supported by reputable jazz critics. Pat Metheny alone is one of the world's most knowledgeable musicians in terms of harmony and melody - particularly in the field of jazz - and is regarded by most active jazz listeners as one of the most reputable critics out there. Therefore I believe that there are significant grounds for a paragraph under this heading to be included in the main article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.31.85.87 (talk) 13:17, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "What a Wonderful World"

I've reintroduced a paragraph regarding this part of music history. It has plenty of useable references and I've also tried to keep it neutral. The topic was quite inflamed at the time and you'll see some of the references are more recent. The debate wasn't forgotten as the track was re-released. It is both a noteworthy moment of his career and noteworthy of modern recorded music in general. - Steve3849 talk 09:23, 2 September 2007 (UTC)