Talk:Kennedy family

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Another possible indexing schemata:

Descendants of Patrick Joseph Kennedy (4 generations)

(1) Patrick Joseph Kennedy (1858-1929)
& Mary Augusta Hickey (1857-1923)
 (2) Joseph Patrick Kennedy (1888-1969)
 & Rose Elizabeth Fitzgerald (1890-1995)
   (3) Joseph Patrick Kennedy, Jr. (1915-1944)
   (3) John Fitzgerald Kennedy (1917-1963)
   & Jacqueline Lee Bouvier (1929-1994)
     (4) Caroline Bouvier Kennedy (1957-)
     & Edwin Arthur Schlossberg (1945-)
     (4) John Fitzgerald Kennedy, Jr. (1960-1999)
     & Carolyn Bessette (1966-1999)
     (4) Patrick Bouvier Kennedy (1963-1963)
   (3) Rosemary Kennedy (1918-)
   (3) Kathleen Agnes Kennedy (1920-1948)
   & William John Robert Cavendish, Marquess of Hartington (1917-1944)
   (3) Eunice Mary Kennedy (1921-)
   & Robert Sargent Shriver, Jr. (1915-)
     (4) Robert Sargent Shriver III (1954-)
     (4) Maria Owings Shriver (1955-)
     & Arnold Alois Schwarzenegger (1947-)
     (4) Timothy Perry Shriver (1959-)
     & Linda Sophia Potter
     (4) Mark Kennedy Shriver (1964-)
     & Jeannie Ripps
     (4) Anthony Paul Kennedy Shriver (1965-)
     & Alina Mojica
   (3) Patricia Kennedy (1924-)
   & Peter Lawford (1923-1984)
     (4) Christopher Kennedy Lawford (1955-)
     & Jean Edith Olsson (1955-)
     (4) Sydney Maleia Kennedy Lawford (1956-)
     & James Peter McKelvey (1955-)
     (4) Victoria Francis Lawford (1958-)
     & Robert Beebe Pender Jr.
     (4) Robin Elizabeth Lawford (1961-)
   (3) Robert Francis Kennedy (1925-1968)
   & Ethel Skakel (1928-), aunt of Michael Skakel
     (4) Kathleen Hartington Kennedy (1951-)
     & David Lee Townsend (1947-)
     (4) Joseph Patrick Kennedy II (1952-)
     & Sheila Brewster Rauch (1949-)
     & Elizabeth Kelley (1957-)
     (4) Robert Francis Kennedy, Jr. (1954-)
     & Emily Ruth Black (1957-)
     & Mary Richardson (1960-)
     (4) David Anthony Kennedy (1955-1984)
     (4) Mary Courtney Kennedy (1956-)
     & Jeffrey Robert Ruhe (1952-)
     & Paul Michael Hill (1955-)
     (4) Michael LeMoyne Kennedy (1958-1997)
     & Victoria Denise Gifford (1957-)
     (4) Mary Kerry Kennedy (1958-)
     & Andrew Mark Cuomo, son of Mario Cuomo
     (4) Christopher George Kennedy (1963-)
     & Sheila Sinclair Berner
     (4) Matthew Maxwell Taylor Kennedy (1965-)
     & Victoria Anne Strauss
     (4) Douglas Harriman Kennedy (1967-)
     & Molly Stark
     (4) Rory Elizabeth Kennedy (1968-)
     & Cecyle Teresa Radziwill
   (3) Jean Ann Kennedy (1928-)
   & Stephen Edward Smith (1927-)
     (4) Stephen Edward Smith, Jr. (1957-)
     (4) William Kennedy Smith, M.D. (1960-) (accused and acquitted of rape)
     (4) Amanda Mary Smith (1967-)
     (4) Kym Marie Smith (1972-)
     & Alfred Tucker
   (3) Edward Moore Kennedy (1932-)
   & Joan Bennett
     (4) Kara Ann Kennedy (1960-)
     & Michael Allen
     (4) Edward Moore Kennedy, Jr. (1961-)
     & Katherine Gershman
     (4) Patrick Joseph Kennedy (1967-)
   (3) Edward Moore Kennedy (1932-) (2nd marriage)
   & Victoria Reggie
 (2) Francis Benedict Kennedy (1891-1892)
 (2) Loretta Kennedy (1892-1972)
 & George William Connelly (1898-1971)
   (3) Mary Louise Connelly (1928-)
   & Matthew James McCarthy (1926-)
 (2) Margaret Louise Kennedy (1898-1974)
 & Charles Joseph Burke (1899-1967)
   (3) Margaret Louise Burke (1926-)
   & John Bernard DeVine (1920-)
   (3) Charles Joseph Burke (1928-)
   & Claire Colton (1935-)
   (3) Thomas Francis Burke (1933-)
   & Gertrude Ann Miller (1936-)

Oh, that really clears things up for me. Daniel Quinlan 08:29, Nov 15, 2003 (UTC)

  • Perhaps not: nonetheless this seems to be one page where all the Kennedys are actually unambiguously related, though perhaps some articles have escaped me. -- Someone else 08:33, 15 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Linked the Marquess to above family tree. Wrote page for Ethel, but she was already linked. jengod 08:45, Feb 10, 2004 (UTC)

An anon change the article to always say family, not dynasty. While both are correct, the title says Dynasty. Should the article be moved, or the article reverted, or neither? -- user:zanimum

Moved to political family b/c only other article on U.S. political families page that has an article is the Bush family and they are listed as a family, not a dynasty. jengod 11:29, Feb 22, 2004 (UTC)
wondering at point dynasty status is achieved... :) --Rj 03:19, Feb 23, 2004 (UTC)
They are almost a dynasty... should we put it to a vote? -- user:zanimum
The reason the "anon" changed it was because he/she thought "dynasty" was perjorative, and I agree. Family is more neutral--they are inarguably a family; they are debatably a dynasty. jengod 18:13, Feb 23, 2004 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] material moved from JFK article

The following material was a section in the John F. Kennedy article. It's about the family, not about John Kennedy, who apparently did nothing at all regarding McCarthy. It would better belong in an article of this title, though this doesn't seem to be organized in a suitable fashion for inclusion. It strikes me as fairly POV writing, and it's totally unreferenced, but some mention probably belongs somewhere. Derex 19:10, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
Someone's stuck it back in the JFK article, I've challenged it there. Derex 19:20, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

McCarthy's support from the Kennedy family

After 1950, Senator Joseph McCarthy was the nation's most prominent Irish-American along with the Kennedy family. Even before becoming famous, McCarthy forged a close friendship with Joseph P. Kennedy, who contributed thousands of dollars to McCarthy, and became one of his major supporters. Joseph Kennedy often brought him to Hyannis Port as a weekend house guest in the late 1940s. McCarthy at one point dated Patricia Kennedy, JFK's sister. In the Senate race of 1952, Joseph allegedly worked a deal so that McCarthy, a Republican, would not make campaign speeches for the GOP ticket in Massachusetts. In return, John F. Kennedy would not give any anti-McCarthy speeches that his liberal supporters wanted to hear. In 1953, at the father's urging, McCarthy hired Robert Kennedy (age 27) as a senior staff member. In 1954, when the Senate was threatening to condemn McCarthy, Senator Kennedy faced a dilemma. "How could I demand that Joe McCarthy be censured for things he did when my own brother was on his staff?" asked Kennedy. By 1954, however, Robert Kennedy and McCarthy's chief aide, Roy Cohn, had had a falling out and Robert no longer worked for McCarthy. John Kennedy had a speech drafted calling for the censure of McCarthy, but he never delivered it. When the Senate voted to censure McCarthy on December 2, 1954, Senator Kennedy was in the hospital and never indicated then or later how he would vote.

[edit] Still-born daughter Kennedy ("Arabella")

The stillborn daughter of JFK and Jackie was not named. See [1]. Bastique▼parler voir 02:26, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Correct. This from Kennedy Curse confirms the fact: Jacqueline Kennedy gives birth to a stillborn daughter. (Although the daughter was unnamed and is buried at Arlington National Cemetery next to her parents with a marker reading "Daughter," later reports indicated that the Kennedys had intended to call her "Arabella Kennedy".). JackofOz 04:50, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Derex reverted my edit with the summary: "it didn't say legal name. it also indicated she was stillborn. respect what the family chooses to call her, this isn't a legal document, and there's no need to distract the reader on such minutae". My take on that is that, if an encyclopedia is not about minutiae, what is it about? While a bereaved family may refer to their still-born child by the name they had intended to give him/her, the fact is that that name has no status in law or anywhere else. It is simply a private family matter; without wanting to seem callous, "Arabella" is essentially a nick-name. We can report the fact that the Kennedys had intended to name their daughter Arabella had she been born live, and we have done so in Kennedy Curse. But to simply assume that name for a stillborn child in an encyclopedic entry is not, in my opinion, appropriate. I even question whether it is correct to say that the Kennedys had 4 children. I would agree they had 4 pregnancies, but they only ever had 3 children. The very fact that the still-born child's grave is marked "Daughter" and not "Arabella" means that the Kennedys accepted that this undoubtedly loved creature should have no name as far as the outside world is concerned. That includes Wikipedia. Finally, lots of notable people have had still-born children, and I'm sure many of them had chosen the babies' names, and referred to the still-born by those names informally in much the same way the Kennedys called their still-born daughter Arabella. But you won't find any of those names in an encyclopedia, for good reason. Why make an exception for the Kennedys? JackofOz 05:09, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
I can't see what "status in law" has to do with this. The text indicated that she was stillborn. Anyone who cares about such matters therefore knows that she has no legal name. Anyone who doesn't care about that is unlikely to be reading an article on the Kennedy's for a discussion of the legality of naming a stillborn child, which is all that the edit added.
My position is that we should respect the wishes of the family in description. If they called her Arabella, that's enough. However, you now indicate that they elected to mark her gravestone as "Daughter", so that is what should be indicated. I suggest "Stillborn daughter". If the intent to call her Arablla at a later time can be documented, it can be noted with "Stillborn daughter -- intended name Arabella". Derex 05:24, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Which is amazingly close to my initial edit which you reverted: "stillborn daughter 1956 (she is usually referred to as "Arabella", although technically she had no legal name)". I've never seen any primary documentation of the claim that she was intended to be called Arabella, but I've seen plenty of secondary material. I don't think there's any serious doubt that they chose this name. Fwiw, I actually prefer your form of words "Stillborn daughter -- intended name Arabella". JackofOz 05:32, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Predominantly" Democratic family

The intro describes the "Kennedy family" as "predominantly" Democratic. This implies that there are exceptions. Yet the article fails to mention a single Kennedy active in Republican (or non-Democratic) politics. Maria Shriver is of course prominently married to Schwarzenegger, but she's still a Democrat who famously banished him to the couch after publicly supporting Bush.

That said, as a Kennedy and an American no less I would tend to object to the title of this article. The "Kennedy family" of this article is no doubt the most well-known branch of the Kennedy clan but represents only a minuscule fraction of Kennedys worldwide (who all have families of their own). I think I'd be fighting a losing battle here though. NTK 04:13, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rufus?

This article claims Ted & Joan Kennedy's second of four children is a "Rufus Kennedy". Neither the article Ted Kennedy nor the article Joan Bennett Kennedy has any mention of a Rufus, both asserting they had only three children together: Kara, Edward Jr., and Patrick. The change was made here by an anon last March, and I suspect subtle vandalism, so I'm removing it. —Angr/talk 21:02, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hello

What is wrong with all the kennedys? why are they all dieing? even if you marry into the family or your not even there blood you end up dieing? stupid. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 164.116.73.138 (talk) 16:58, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

It's just a sad coincedence. I'm a Kennedy and i hope i don't die young. Ofcourse there is nothing wrong with the family and no curse, just a coincedence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by President Elect (talk • contribs) 03:31, 3 November 2007 (UTC)