User:Katr67/Archive2.4

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Archive This page is an archive. Please do not edit the contents of this page. Direct any additional comments to the current talk page.

Contents

Images

There's this really cool tool at http://tools.wikimedia.de/~magnus/watchflickr.php that searches Flickr for free images based on WP categories and uploads them to commons. I've been running through various Oregon related cats:Oregon; Portland, Oregon; Buildings in Oregon; etc. I highly recommend it,what would take hours now takes minutes. - Peregrine Fisher 17:25, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Eugene Franklin Skinner

Hi,

It was nice to see your work on EFS on Wiki. I haven't searched for additonal information on him in quite awhile. The picture of the his sculpture was a delight to view.

My mother's maiden name was Helen May Skinner and she is the great-granddaughter of Eugene F. Skinner and I the great-great-grandson.

As my brothers and I were growing up in Oak Grove/Milwaukie, Oregon, my mom was always proud to state her heritage and instilled that in us.

As a child I often visited my grand parents Eugene and Emma Skinner in Eugene and always knew how important it was to them for me to realize my pioneer history.

Pauline Walton a distant cousin, daughter of Judge Walton in Lane County made quite an impression on me. She really carried the family torch. Being the head librarian at U of O put her in a position to keep the family history alive and often in the news. Her diary was donated to the library.

When my mom moved from La Grande to Eugene attending University High School, she stayed with Pauline in the Judge Walton home, now Moreno's Mexican restaurant on E. Broadway. Our family dined there many times over the years. We confirmed much to my mom's delight that the heat vent my mom sat on while doing her homework was still there.

Well I do go on. Anyway, thanks very much for your contribution to the pioneer history of Eugene Franklin Skinner.

Sincerely,

Kenneth W. Darling

<email address removed by Katr67 to save you from spambots--these pages get copied all over the Internet>

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.193.154.234 (talk) 19:31, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

You're welcome! I think Moreno's has changed hands recently and goes by a different name. I have a picture of it I took when I was doing a project on rural Gothic Revival architecture in Eugene...unfortunately it's on a hard drive I can't access right now. I didn't know it was Judge Walton's home (or I had forgotten) I think I just recognized it was Gothic from the center gable and didn't do any research into it... I've also got a shot from a different angle of the Skinner statue. If I end up uploading any of this stuff to Wikimedia Commons I'll let you know. I'll have to check out Judge Walton and see if he needs an article as well. Thanks for writing! Katr67 19:40, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
Found a picture of Moreno's: http://www.historiceugene.com/history.cfm?id=23 Katr67 19:44, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
Hey Kenneth, if you're still around, I wrote an article on Walton, Oregon. Judge Walton got around. Katr67 17:37, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Concerning recent: Western Oregon University edits

Hello, I am obviously new to this and do not understand all of the in and outs of this process. As far as gaining permissions to use images specifically Copyright problems with Image:1871 Campbell.jpg(warning body removed) and text from University printed material. The University and the State of Oregon would be considered the copyright holder. I have been given permission through through the PR office and my job description to use a wide range of images as well as text from various printed material like the current catalog which provides excellent paraphrased information. I am also considered a contact concerning the release of printed and online materials for publication. So is it okay for me to give other folks permission to use this, but not use it myself or how do I note that myself or any other individual can act as an representative of the copyright holder (the univ). Also for elements like history, if it is published by the univ is this considered proper documentation or do I need other documentation - the library archives would be the provider.

Concerning conflict of interest. I do work as the web designer and was tasked to update and monitor this page with current information. I have no problem with many of the directions for conflict of interest sense we have very strict rules here about using material for monetary or promotional purposes. Also the individuals making these request will understand these limitations too. It would seem that anybody interested and knowlegable in a specific area would have a conflict of interest in their topic. Many proffesors here edit their areas of special study sometimes using quotes from their or other like minded individuals work. So from what I gathered it is not just a matter of having a possible conflict of interest, but really using the forum to actively promote a view over the stated goals of Wikipedia.

I did notice that there are specific entries on academic departments added by faculty, which I am not free to remove because of perceived academic freedom violations. Would these actually belong in a list or a special feature and how would they document this information (is it better to make the footnote be a link to the material online or in printed format). Also is it proper to link to the current online listing of this information (as a footnote or inline).

I will have to admit so far the easiest way for me to find the correct methods of adding material and making edits is to just go at it and wait until I get a notice with the correct link. The help and user guides are written like the refference pages with too much info on the reasons and very little specific how too examples, and is it my imagination or do the links on copywritten materials take me back and forth to the same pages. Note: I use mostly tech help message boards more than research tools.

Is there a spell check or should I always use firefox with the dictionary plug-in?

I was hoping for an reply to editor button to send this message so hopefully was not placed in the wrong place.

thanks Moonpoint 20:32, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

If you were to look at the Encyclopædia Britannica article for Western Oregon University, what would you expect to find? Would you expect odds and ends from the college's recruiting brochures? Would you expect phone numbers? Would you expect it to be written by an advocate of the University? No. All of those are expected in college recruiting and donor sales materials, but definitely not in an encyclopedia.
Rather than getting and documenting copyright permission, it is almost certainly far easier in this case to not copy material which is protected.
There is no "reply to editor": It is the work of millions of unpaid, volunteer editors. Our payment is a job well done—and maybe a little appreciation. —EncMstr 21:50, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
I find your writing style hard to follow, but I will try to address all the points you brought up.
1) I'm not the one to whom to explain the copyright of your image. You will need to follow the instructions on the disputed image's page and provide the proper permissions or the image will be deleted. If at any time you're having trouble figuring out the instructions, use the {{helpme}} function on your talk page and an editor should be along shortly to help you.
2) I hope that because you are being paid to edit Wikipedia, you have read the COI guidelines carefully. They do not preclude you editing the article, but I think you are beginning to understand their implications.
3) "So is it okay for me to give other folks permission to use this, but not use it myself or how do I note that myself or any other individual can act as an representative of the copyright holder (the univ)."
You will need to follow the procedures at WP:COPY to show that you have permission to use the material. Remember that anything posted to Wikipedia (text and images) needs to be able to be used under the GFDL--that is, it needs to be able to copied and widely distributed by anyone outside Wikipedia. However, I'd suggest taking EncMstr's advice and rather than seek permission to use copyrighted material, rewrite the material so it fits our NPOV guidelines.
4) Documentation is provided by citing your sources.
5) "I did notice that there are specific entries on academic departments added by faculty, which I am not free to remove because of perceived academic freedom violations."
Are you still referring to the Wikipedia article? I'm not getting how you think these were added by faculty, nor why academic freedom violations would apply here on Wikipedia. At one point you did remove this section, and someone else reverted it, but this is because you did not provide an edit summary explaining why you removed it. Unexplained blanking of content is almost always perceived as vandalism.
6) "Would these actually belong in a list or a special feature and how would they document this information (is it better to make the footnote be a link to the material online or in printed format). Also is it proper to link to the current online listing of this information (as a footnote or inline)."
Check out WikiProject Universities for examples of how to handle sections about academic departments. You can also ask your questions on the WikiProject's talk page. Again, you will need to follow the format laid out at WP:CITE. Linking to the current webpage that backs up the facts stated in the article is OK. It would be good to provide outside sources besides the University's webpage, for balance, if any such sources exist.
7) "I will have to admit so far the easiest way for me to find the correct methods of adding material and making edits is to just go at it and wait until I get a notice with the correct link. The help and user guides are written like the refference pages with too much info on the reasons and very little specific how too examples, and is it my imagination or do the links on copywritten materials take me back and forth to the same pages. Note: I use mostly tech help message boards more than research tools."
Well, one of the primary tenets of Wikipedia is be bold. However since your attempts at editing were reverted several times, at that point you need to slow down and discover why this is so. If you don't understand what happened to your edits, you need to check the page history and read the edit summaries therein. I'm sorry you find the the user guides confusing and unlike what you are used to. If you need help, there's always {{helpme}}, as mentioned above, and also the the Village Pump, where people are available to answer your questions.
8) Wikipedia doesn't have a built in spellcheck. I either copy and paste my articles into a text editor like Word and use the spellchecker there, or when I'm using FireFox as my browser, I use the spellcheck function built into it.
9) Some editors put a link to their talk page in their signature, everyone else, you just click on their user name in their signature and then when you are at their userpage, click on the tab at the top of the page that says "discussion". Yes, you did this correctly.
I honestly don't have the patience to explain Wikipedia policies any better or more succinctly than the policy and guideline pages to which I have linked. Please use the help resources I have mentioned above. Katr67 18:03, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
I completely agree with Katr67. Spend an hour or two reading the guidelines at WP:MOS, WP:NPOV, WP:V, WP:RS, WP:NOT, and WP:COI. Does an hour of reading seem like too much? Consider how much time you've already wasted. Once those make sense, you should understand where we're coming from. —EncMstr 18:29, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Copywrite

What needs to be done to verify that permission has been granted from the copywrite holder? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Huggler (talk • contribs) 23:19, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Read this about copyright: WP:COPY. However, its much better for the project if the material is written in your own words, using several outside sources. Like I said, Wikipedia isn't here to provide a duplicate of the state's website. Katr67 23:32, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Fort Vancouver article

I've added quite a bit on the McLoughlin house (less info on the Barclay House)... and I'm thinking that there is enough material for a separate article. My thought is that Fort Vancouver National Historic Site be kept kind of small; and link to Fort Vancouver (and possibly Officers Row), and new articles on the McLoughlin House and Barclay House (the former currently redirs back to Fort Vancouver National Historic Site). The fact that the McLoughlin House was apparently a brothel during the late 1800s is a good WP:DYK hook. Oregon History Project has lots of good material. Let me know what you think. --EngineerScotty 00:31, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I made Dr. Forbes Barclay House, the full NRHP name, redir there too. I should go out in the big blue room for a while, but I'll take a look later. I like separate articles myself... Katr67 00:39, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Carpenter Gothic

Thanks for your help in removing the Carpenter's Gothic novel stuff from this article. I was trying to straighten this out so that there would be an article on Carpenter Gothic architecture. Originally Carpenter Gothic redirected to a section of Gothic Revival architecture. (You have taken care of the Main article reference there, for which I thank you also.) I found the original Carpenter's Gothic article which had the novel stuff added into it and today merged it into Carpenter Gothic. I was trying to figure out what to do the the novel stuff when you solved the problem. Many thanks. My interest in Carpenter Gothic arises from my long time membership in an 1898 Carpenter Gothic church in Florida. I'd appreciate any help you can to give in expanding this article. clariosophic 14:42, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

You're welcome! I'm the one who originally made the redirect, so thanks for making a long-overdue article. I've got a paper I wrote that I can use to fill out the article if the refs are good enough. (i.e. I can make sure it isn't original research) There's a whole intro I wrote on Downing, et al. I've got a ton of images too, but right now they're on a hard drive I can't access. There's one crappy pic on my userpage--that house was built from a pattern book. I have a thing for board and batten siding, center gables and the "Western Farmhouse" vernacular version you see a lot out here, but I also love the really frilly versions. I'll go see what else I have for pictures--none as gorgeous as that Ohio place though--yow! Katr67 15:16, 30 October 2007 (UTC)
I think the house in Eugene looks pretty good. I like its simplicity. I put it in the gallery as I'm sure you've seen. I've put some stuff in my sandbox on churches in Cove, Oregon and Metuchen, New Jersey. I'm trying to get some idea of the regional extent of C.G. buildings. I'm also wondering about the time frame starting before 1840. Look at St. Mary's Episcopal Church and Cemetery (Newton Lower Falls) built in 1814 and check out the pictures on its website. Let me know what you think. Thanks again. clariosophic 01:51, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
Eek! Thanks. I went back and cropped it a bit. Those churches in Cove and NJ are just lovely--I had no idea there was such a place in li'l ol' Cove. The wooden buttresses are something else. My paper focuses on the Pacific Northwest, but I'll see if I mentioned the regional extent--I think there are examples all over the U.S., with concentrations in certain places. The pattern book thing really helped to spread them around. St. Mary's is interesting--IANAAH (I am not an art historian) but I'd say it isn't CG. Its more like a vernacular Federal architecture-type thing with Gothic touches--it's funny the shape is so squat and then it has the very fancy high Gothic detailing. You'll see I added another blurry pic. If the weather stays nice I can go get this one. I've got Field Guide to American Houses (ISBN 0394739698) so I can add some info from there as well. It's nice to know there are other CG enthusiasts on the wiki! Cheers, Katr67 02:31, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Arago and Cape Arago

I was wondering if we should add Arago and Cape Arago to the List of cities and unincorporated communities in Oregon that I noticed you were helping to tidy up. When I looked at the list I noticed that Arago wasn't on it, and I recalled that most of the old timers from Myrtle Point knew where Arago was, as if it was a generally accepted place. Maybe there just aren't enough people living there now. I remember taking drives to Arago with my father when I was very young, though I can't recall why we went. I know there is a page for the Cape Arago Light, but I thought perhaps Cape Arago itself should be noted as an unincorporated place or have a page as a place of interest. I'll have to search for citation materials for each place of course. Thanks, Permalearning 01:01, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

There are hundreds of places not on that list. At this point, it's probably best to add new ones only if we write an article on them. I write new ones when I can, but often I do better if someone starts a stub and then I'll add what I can from Oregon Geographic Names. Arago, Oregon, used to have a post office, but now their mail is addressed to Myrtle Point, according to the USPS. OGN doesn't say anything about a Cape Arago post office, so it is a landform, but not a populated place. Feel free to start an article or two, but I would urge you to study the Wikipedia Manual of Style and how to cite your sources. At minimum, each paragraph of an article should have an in-line citation. This makes it easier for future editors to add to the article. Don't worry if you don't get the format quite right, others can tidy up if a citation at least has the title of the work, the author, the publisher, the URL if there is one, etc. Thanks and welcome to WikiProject Oregon! Katr67 15:47, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Triple sec

Aren't you just a DYK away yourself? Just start a nice 2,000+ character article on a beautiful, little, vibrant, historic, and wonderful hamlet nestled amongst meadows, brooks, streams, and stunnily clear lakes where fine living and friendly people come together to make a community. It touches my heart just thinking about it right now. I need a tissue. Aboutmovies 03:10, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

OGN?

Could you check to see if either Cornelius Gilliam or Thomas R. Cornelius is the namesake for Cornelius Pass? Thank you. Aboutmovies 07:10, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately it doesn't say. I'd assume it's T.R. though. Doesn't that silly McMenamins have a history pamphlet on it? We should compile a list for McArthur for things to include in the 8th edition. Katr67 15:47, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
I'd pick TR out of the two as well, but there are some other non-notable Cornelius named folk that could also be the namesake. The McMenamins brouchere didn't help. Thanks for checking. Aboutmovies 19:27, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
Yes, I was thinking it could be a TR relative, or named for the family in general. But I bet there's some connection with TR, since he was in the general area. BTW, I got a book on the Yakama War, with some mention of the Cayuse, but I'm not convinced of its scholarship. There sure are a lot of self-published history books out there. Oy. Katr67 19:34, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

new articles

Since you're so good at finding these tools, do you know of a tool that can give you a list of all the articles you have created? --Esprqii 18:13, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Hey Esprqii. I don't. Did you check the link I posted on the WPOre page with the list--did they explain how they did it? When I've tried to check for mine, I just through my mainspace contribs by hand 500 at a time and search for the word "new", because most of the time I put that word, and somtimes "create". It's a pain though. I'll see if there's some way to do it in the Special pages. Katr67 18:31, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
There's this, but it doesn't go back very far: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Newpages&namespace=0&username=Katr67&limit=500&offset=0 As you can tell, I've been slacking lately. Katr67 18:37, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, that looks like it gives you a month's worth or so. I have not been one to list all my articles on my user pages, but I was just curious. Let me know if you stumble across something. --Esprqii 18:41, 13 November 2007 (UTC) (P.S. I don't know about you, but I finished off several bags of popcorn in the past week watching the whole supercentenarian saga. It had everything: drama, pain, comedy, and a great ending!)
I loved it. It was much better than Cats. I want to see it again and again. I laughed, I cried, Smartfood started a franchise in my house, and I have to reset my civility meter. C'est la vie... Katr67 18:58, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your welcome! (belated response)

Hi Katr67,

Thank you so much for the warm welcome to Wikipedia. As you surmised, my creating a user account and editing the Volga Germans page was very job-related. A colleague and I were charged with investingating Wikipedia after the article about the University of Washington appeared in D-Lib. I had contacted one of the authors and she told me about the controversy of adding the links and that was included in our investigation. One option she suggested for legitimately adding a link to any of our digital collections to a Wikipedia article was to add real content and to use the digital collections as a reference for that content. Although this is a little more time consuming than just adding an external link, I can see the value--now to see if our administrator's perceive the value vs. the resources necessary to do this.

Colorado State University is investing heavily in digital collections. Why? Because we have a wealth of primary research materials that we want to make available to the scholarly and learning community. Two of our digital collections, The International Poster Collection and the Carnations and the Floriculture Industry collection were previously linked to the Posters and Carnations articles in Wikipedia, and we found that we did have a significant number of referrals to our collections from Wikipedia. We found that exciting! It meant that our resources are at least being accessed (if not really used--little way to determine that) based on people using Wikipedia. You know, I'm not sure I understand the full set of objections to these library-collections links (maybe I am missing something and you can enlighten me--that would be awesome!). We know that students access Wikipedia when given research assignments--to me that is little different than pulling for the Encyclopedia Brittanica when beginning research on a topic. Ideally, they would then delve further, using secondary and primary resources to continue their research, and the references and external links from to 'more authoritative' sources would be the next responsible, logical step. I view adding external links, or in the case of the Volga Germans article, content and a reference, as helping these students, whether they are elementary, secondary, or higher-ed students. Oh well. Thank you for not being critical of what I did. I will be meeting with some of the higher-ups here at CSU Libraries to see if they want to pursue finding legitimate ways to use Wikipedia to direct students and other interested individuals to authoritative sources of information.

It is very interesting to hear that you are descended from Germans from Russia. Of course, here in Colorado, there are many, but practically every time I demonstrate the site, or talk about it, someone in the audience (usually a library-related conference of some type) comes up to me to say that they are descended from a German from Russia. I, on the other hand, and just descended from plain old Germans (my Grandmother's maiden name was Kaiser until they changed it to Keyser during WWI!).

Anyway, I ramble on. Again, thank you for the welcome. And if you should see me doing something 'wrong' or inappropriate, by all means, let me know. I have personal interests that might spark adding/editing articles in Wikipedia, and I certainly don't want to get on anyone's wrong side!

Cheers!

Nancy Hunter 19:41, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Blossoming Lotus

Hi. I added the book back into the article as it is both about the restaurants and the food they serve. I agree with you about the duplicate external link, and I've removed it. —Viriditas | Talk 23:13, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair enough. Happy editing. Katr67 23:13, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
BTW, I appreciate you keeping an eye on the article. There are some strange, woo woo claims on their website. —Viriditas | Talk 23:52, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
I see a need to rewrite the article to meet your criticism. Thanks, again. —Viriditas | Talk 02:16, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Sorry to keep bugging you, but I just wanted to give you an update. I'm still working on the rewrite (haven't done much yet), but I did want to take a quick glance at WP:CORP and get your opinion. From what I can tell, the Blossoming Lotus has been the subject of coverage in multiple, reliable secondary sources independent of the organization. And while their activities are local in scope, verifiable information from reliable independent sources is easily obtained, and the book has increased this local scope internationally. The paperback version was just released, BTW. Another thing I found interesting is that the San Francisco Chronicle calls the restaurant "world-famous", which in many ways is true, as the majority of their customers consists not of local Hawaiians, but of tourists from all over the world, many of whom return again and again. There's also a small, but significant Indian clientele who make a habit of visiting the Blossoming Lotus in addition to Kauai's Hindu Monastery, and the temple even promotes the restaurant on their website.[1] This may also explain the glowing review in Hinduism Today.[2] Anyhoo, back to the article... —Viriditas | Talk 03:32, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Hi, I hope you don't mind that I sent our resident expert on business articles to check it out. It's looking very good now--thanks for all your hard work! I love it when people actually show, not just tell about their subject's notability! Take care, Katr67 (talk) 15:50, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Image resolution

Hello Katr67. I noticed that you changed the resolution of the thumbnail of the panoramic picture I uploaded on the Wallowa Mts article. I decided to browse around and I couldn’t find any stated policy regarding which resolution to use in wikipedia, or which is preferred Help:Contents/Images and media. Actually, if you take a look at the article on panoramic photography you’ll see a picture that stretches all the way out of the viewing area, even when you use a 1280x1024 resolution. Now, I had the pictures in the article “optimized” in such a way that their frames would align on a resolution of 1024x768, something that I find “elegant” (a subjective point of view of course) but having in mind that it is the most used resolution format (I’d rather have it in 1280x1024, which is the resolution I normally use). Because of that I’m reverting the changes. As you state in your page, I’m assuming that you made them in good faith, so no harm done. It’s good to know that there’s a wikiproject on Oregon, I hope I can keep on contributing. PV --Fbolanos 19:49, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

I changed it, as I stated in my edit summary in the page history because in the browser I was using, the image overlapped with another image. Image layout has to be optimal for all browsers. Generally, it is preferred not to override people's thumb size preferences by assigning a pixel size to the image, but since I could see your image would be unappreciated at thumb size, I went ahead and made it just slightly smaller and moved it to the left. Your preferred way also leaves a great deal of white space and dominates what is a rather short article, which isn't ideal. BTW WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is not a particularly good argument for doing something. A centered caption isn't standard either. I won't revert again, but I am going to point a couple more editors who are more experienced with image layout to this discussion. Thanks. Katr67 20:07, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
There was some intense discussion about a year ago for WP:MOS#Images. Overriding thumb size preferences is considered unfriendly. I've formatted the image in Wallowa Mountains hopefully to address both your concerns. —EncMstr 20:41, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Re: Oregon Book Award

Thanks for your help with this as well. I've been reading Le Guin's Searoad and was surprised to see that we had nothing on the awards. I think it'll also be useful in helping the WikiProject locate notable Oregon authors that are yet to have an article. (And for that matter provide a resource for finding good local reading material.) Owen 21:41, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I think that would be very appropriate. It's certainly detailed enough. Although there isn't even an article on the book itself at this point. Owen 21:50, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

House

That House picture looks just like a house I have seen in downtown Silverton. It might be worth the trip to check it out —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fitzgerw (talk • contribs) 19:19, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Do you know the name of the house or the address? A house similar to that ought to be on the National Register. I haven't been to Silverton in ages--you're right I should go check it out. But you should also see the backlog of image uploads I've got right now. Thanks for the tip. Katr67 19:24, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

chez crum

I'm sure you'll notice that I made a Maurice Crumpacker House page soon enough...please feel free to add any additional NRHP fancy stuff that I was not aware of.

(Oh, and the picture is kinda crappy because I am obviously not brave enough to be a full-on NRHPer. I thought an open house was balloons and signs and nice old ladies waiting for my arrival; but this was just a big ol' house with no clear indication of open housiness and no one around. So I was chicken and just snapped the pic from my car before driving off. Oh well. I have a good pic of the plaque if you think that would add to the article.) --Esprqii 00:54, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Hey, you're almost as much of a nervous wreck as the 'Pack himself! ;) Nice pic, though. -Pete 06:44, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
(Heh, Pete) Oh that's a nice little cottage. I don't think the pic is bad at all. Yeah, sometimes you can tell who is really into sharing the historicness of their house and who is just in it for the tax break. I went to Garfield School (now offices) here in town when there was supposedly an open house and nobody was around. It was spooky, but I prowled around anyway. Not brave enough to knock on any doors and demand the full tour though. If you can catch a historic district group open house thing that's better. The one I went to ranged from people who printed out history fliers, gave you the run of the house, had blueprints out and would let you talk to them about their Pietro Belluschi remodel and their pocket doors, to people who ask you put blue booties on your feet, to people with hot apple cider and piles of hors d'oeuvres. Even people who no longer get the tax break will open their homes sometimes. The plaque pic would be good too (mine never come out very well). We'll turn you into an NRHPer yet... Katr67 15:49, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
Double heh to Pete...yes, I was tempted to throw myself into Tryon Creek, but I persevered. Anyhoo, I posted the plaque here: Image:Crumpacker NRHP.jpg. My only concern is that it shows the address, but hey, that's public domain info, so suck on that, tax break junkies who don't offer cookies! I'll try to incorporate into the article later, unless one of youse beat me to it. --Esprqii 16:01, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Follow up on open houses: Well this month I got a nice tour from the owner of Grand Theater (Salem, Oregon) (and a frustrating amount of fascinating original research I can't use), found another place (city block of businesses and apartments) wasn't open on the day stated and their "open house" was moved to a different day and seemed to be a holiday sales event. I checked out one private home but this was one of the times it felt weird. Beautiful woodwork though. Imbrie Farm's open house is coming up next month, not sure if it matters since it's open to the public anyway? I'll post more on the project page. Katr67 17:47, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Manx Ancestry

Hi, I knew I couldn't have been the only one. An actual Manx person, now that would be a find—they're seldom seen on the internet. Do you ever plan on going? Even if you were in the UK, it could be difficult to manoeuvre a visit but it's a great place Yohan euan o4 (talk) 13:14, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Not too bad, I suppose. There's an airport, but the flights going there are fairly infrequent. Catching a ferry would probably be the best idea.

1984 Rajneeshee bioterror attack

I'm in the middle of reading (and editing) it right now...so far so good. Katr67 (talk) 21:49, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
Okay, thanks. As it looks like you are only doing minor edits so far, feel like giving it a GA review? Curt Wilhelm VonSavage (talk) 21:51, 18 November 2007 (UTC).
Fascinating article. Thanks for writing it, and for having it show up on my watchlist! :-P Jeffpw (talk) 21:54, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
Um, my pleasure, thanks for the compliments! How did it show up on your watchlist, out of curiosity? Curt Wilhelm VonSavage (talk) 21:59, 18 November 2007 (UTC).

I think Jeff may be watching my page since a previous conversation? ;) Katr67 (talk) 22:03, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Eh, whatever, I'm just please someone likes the new article. Curt Wilhelm VonSavage (talk) 22:09, 18 November 2007 (UTC).
  • Do you think it would be appropriate if I expanded on the plot to murder the Oregon Attorney General in the Investigation section, or keep the entire article tight to the bioterror plot? Curt Wilhelm VonSavage (talk) 22:19, 18 November 2007 (UTC).
Curt, I'm not prepared to give a full on GA, review, but I did notice two things. First, the community in Antelope is referred to as both "Rajneeshpuram" and as "Rancho Rajneesh", which may be confusing to readers, and should be made consistent or explained. Also, I didn't see any access dates for the web citations. I'm not sure if it matters for GA, but I know people mention it at FA. I mentioned the article on the WikiProject Oregon page, and one of our members likes to do GA reviews of Oregon stuff, so hopefully he'll come take a look. Other than that, it seems like a fair and balanced summary of what was an incredibly charged issue back in the day. Good job and good luck! Katr67 (talk) 22:26, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the suggestions, I will go back and keep the reference to the location uniform throughout the article, and check to make sure there are access dates for web cites. Curt Wilhelm VonSavage (talk) 22:27, 18 November 2007 (UTC).
Y Done - Replaced all instances of "Rancho Rajneesh" with "Rajneeshpuram".
Y Done - I double-checked, and all cites that have urls, also have accessdates noted in the citations. Curt Wilhelm VonSavage (talk) 22:31, 18 November 2007 (UTC).
    • Re:Murder plot. Hmm. Good question. I think keeping the article focused on the bioterror plot would be best, and depending on how much material you have, either start a new article or add the info to Charles Turner's as yet nonexistent article. I bet one of our WPORE politicos could whip up an article pretty quickly if need be. Katr67 (talk) 22:35, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
      • That's sort of along the lines of what I was thinking. I think it has enough sources for its own separate article, apart from Charles Turner, though that would be a good one to create as well at some point. Curt Wilhelm VonSavage (talk) 22:36, 18 November 2007 (UTC).
        • Posted a new comment about the potential for new article Charles Turner (attorney), at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Oregon. If anyone bites and leaves me a message on my talk page saying they're interested, I will try to create the article with info from as many sources as possible. Eh, now that my curiosity is piqued I might try to create the article anyway if no one else voices interest, we'll see. Curt Wilhelm VonSavage (talk) 09:01, 20 November 2007 (UTC).
  • I'm starting work on the Charles Turner (attorney) article. But I was thinking that the assassination plot by the Rajneeshees (of which seven were eventually convicted) will take up a good chunk of the article on Charles Turner. I know that there are enough sources for this to be its own article, just not sure what to title it. What do you think? Rajneeshee plot to assassinate the U.S. Attorney for Oregon seems kind of long. I'm really not sure which way to go on this, or whether to just have it be a disproportionately larger portion of the Charles Turner article. Somehow I think it'd be more appropriate as its own article. Message my talk page and let me know, if you get a chance. Curt Wilhelm VonSavage (talk) 10:42, 25 November 2007 (UTC).
    • Nevermind, I figured out a good title for the article, which will be purely about the assassination plot. I'll have to create an article on Charles Turner later on. Curt Wilhelm VonSavage (talk) 12:46, 25 November 2007 (UTC).

Smegma

Katr67, There are only 2 members left in the band, Ju Suk and Oblivia. The other members have been removed or told they are no longer needed. Check any listings for their shows, Dr. Id no longer plays with them or records them. The drummer was dismissed. And the rubber band guy has some medical problems. Anyway, as a long-time fan, 2 members of a band do not make the band. Sadly, it is no longer. Slosssssss —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sloss (talk • contribs) 22:28, November 18, 2007

That's great you know all that, but we still need citations for it. See WP:CITE and WP:RS for help. Without reliable sources, unfortunately it is original research. I imagine as underground as they are the breakup will get written about in a publication somewhere, but it might take a while? Unfortunately I actually have little interest in the band itself (except that I'm fascinated by how long they've been around and wonder what their real names are), I just tried to save the article from the axe since I knew it was notable. The only thing like that I'm into is Negativland. Cheers, Katr67 (talk) 22:45, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

Just wanted to say thanks, a couple of times I've made a hash of things and you've cleaned it up! Awotter (talk) 05:06, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

You're welcome, though I don't recall doing much. I know it's sometimes annoying when someone comes along and mercilessly edits your work, so it's good to know it's appreicated! Cheers! Katr67 (talk) 15:42, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Re: Rfc

Huh, it's interesting where your name will show up sometimes. Although it's probably true that I don't have much of an opinion about their debate. Owen (talk) 00:38, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Happy Thanksgiving!

How ya doin'? Where you at?  :-) --Finngall talk 19:06, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Shhh. I'm hiding from the Meepits. Katr67 (talk) 19:12, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

WPORE Civil War COTW

Hello again to WikiProject Oregon members, time for this week’s Collaboration of the Week. Thank you to those who helped out improving Legacy Emanuel Hospital & Health Center and Oregon Department of Education last week. This week, in honor of the annual Civil War, we have the University of Oregon Ducks and the Oregon State University Beavers. Or if you attended some other school, feel free to improve your alma mater’s article. Once again, to opt out or suggest future collaborative efforts, click here. Aboutmovies (talk) 06:58, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

COTW Award for you

The COTW award from WPOR.
Thanks for leading the way in last week's Collaboration of the Week!
Thanks for taking on the OED. Aboutmovies (talk) 07:14, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
'Twernt much, but thank you! Katr67 (talk) 19:00, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Katr67 - I have a question on an edit.

Hello,

I am writing to discuss my submission of the "Nathaniel Berg" bio. I see that it is repeatedly flagged as questionable in the area of "notability". I submitted Mr. Berg's bio based on his contribution to the community of Guam. Mr. Berg has introduced current radiology equipment to Guam. This is notable because, in the past, Guam health care patients thought they had to seek radiology tests off island because of the state of disrepair or mismanagement of radiology equipment at the one and only civilian hospital on Guam. He has been a staunch proponent of improving the overall health care system of Guam. Guam is set to receive nearly 8,000 U.S. Marines over the next five years. They will bring with them approximately 9,000 dependents and possibly 30,000 foreign workers as a result of needed infrastructure upgrades. Given the upcoming increase to the existing population of 150,000 Berg emphasizes the need for accountability in the governance of Guam's health care system. Berg is consistently sought out by members of Guam's media for his opinion on public health care and medical issues. Berg also hosts a radio talk show. He is a medical correspondent for the ABC Pacific News Center. Berg's tenacity for accountability in Guam's public health care system and at Guam's civilian hospital has earned him recognition in Guam's GU magazine. I am only aware of who he is because of his appearances in the media and his endeavor to be a watchdog of government and public healthcare. What must be done to ensure his name is not flagged for questionable notability? Please let me know. You can e-mail me at <e-mail removed>

Thank you,

Buffradio —Preceding unsigned comment added by Buffradio (talk • contribs) 07:52, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

You don't need to tell me about his notability, you need to show it in the article. Did you click on the "notability" bluelink in the template in question? That will give you some guidelines. Currently none of the references used in the article establish his notability. Please take a look at WP:NOTE and WP:BIO for examples of what "significant coverage" from reliable sources means. The bottom line is, you may think he is notable, and perhaps he is notable, but if his article doesn't show his notability with the proper references, by Wikipedia standards, he's not notable. I see there is a Wikipedia:WikiProject Micronesia, you might ask them for help, since they may be more familiar with the scope of Guam news media and what would be notable on a Micronesian level. I hope that helps. Katr67 (talk) 11:10, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm

OK, so I was looking at this again and was thinking of cool wordings like, this user carries an Ax and knows how to use it. Then I was thinking, we have a bearded man with an ax and a tarp on the roof of our capital, are we trying to promote serial killers as a state? Aboutmovies (talk) 21:20, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

LOL Now who's been hitting the brownies, hmmm? Katr67 (talk) 21:24, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Reub Long article

Katr67: Got tagged with "tone" violation on Reub Long article. Presume referring to subject as "Reub" (vice "Long") trigger clean-up note. Checked writing guide before submitting article--while it says tone should be formal, it also says articles "should follow tone used by reliable sources." Every source I found (including OPB and Oregon Historical Society) introduced this subject as "Reub Long" (never "Reuben" Long) and then referred to him as "Reub" thoughout their text--don't recall a single exception. In any case, I thought about this up front--i.e. whether to be formal or follow the sources' tone. What do you suggest in case like this? My vote is to follow sources--their the experts after all. Also, article got "unknow importance" tag. Here's my thought on that--anybody who's life is interesting enough to be highlighted in OPB special 30 years after their death is worth capturing in wikipedia.--Orygun (talk) 04:30, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

No, he can have any old nickname he wants. The {{tone}} issues are apparent in the lead: "one of Eastern Oregon’s most colorful characters. During his life time, he did nothing more than be himself. However, that was enough to become known throughout Oregon as a witty and wise cowboy philosopher. Even today, long after his death, Rueb Long remains the guardian spirit of Oregon's desert country." All of that is terribly POV as are words like "inhospitable" and "truly a unique book". Basicially the article reads more like a human interest story in a newspaper, not an encyclopedia article. If you need help, I can rewrite it, but I thought I'd tag it and give you the chance first. The "unknown importance" is a function of WPORE's Assessement subproject. It was unknown because I added the tag without assigning any assessment ratings. You can see that Aboutmovies assessed it as "Low", which is about right. In the grand scheme of things in Oregon, his article is of low importance. It's nothing personal or a critique of his notability. I hope this helps. Katr67 (talk) 17:44, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Katr67: Made changes you suggested. Hopefully, article has right tone now. If there's anything else to fix let me know. Thanks for your help!--Orygun (talk) 02:58, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

It is much better now, thanks. Oh and please be careful, your revisions reverted a couple WP:MOS form and style edits I had made. Katr67 (talk) 18:02, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Another humorous item

Didn't know if you had seen this. It might even be true. Aboutmovies (talk) 06:07, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

@ Large Films Page

Hey Katr67. I believe you are the person editing my article about the @Large Films National Commercial Production Company within Portland, OR. I believe I edited everything needed and added some sources to verify my information. Does it need anymore cleaning up and/or editing. Please let me know. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cosondra (talk • contribs) 18:49, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

You don't need to believe, you can be sure by looking at the page history! Sorry not to get back to you right away, but as EncMstr said, please be careful about removing tags from articles. I'll take a look now. Katr67 (talk) 18:50, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Second opinion request

Utah Italians‎. First of all, the title should probably be "Italians in Utah", but the whole idea just feels wrong. Would any [[<ethnic group> in Oregon]] articles be justifiable, for instance? Thanks. --Finngall talk 23:27, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Hmm. Interesting question. I found this: German Texan, so the concept is not without precedent. I'd agree the article needs renaming (and more sources!). Since I think of Utah as being uniformly LDS, other demographics there might be quite notable, I'd wait and see how it turns out. If it's a bunch of loosely strung together people if Italian descent, I'd say it's not justifiable, but if there was a cohesive Italian presence in Utah at some point, it would be OK. I could imagine that Japanese in Oregon, Chinese in Oregon and Basque in Oregon might be viable articles, for various reasons, and the more recent Russian Old Believers immigrants might also be. Manx in Oregon? Not so much. :) Katr67 (talk) 23:40, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

wildernesses

Thanks for cleaning up and polishing in my wake. What a great gnome you are! —EncMstr 20:14, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for helping out with Woodburn Company Stores‎. As you noticed, things are rather messy with the article. -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 21:01, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

You're welcome. I peeked. Looks scary in there. Despite the mess, and the fact that I hate malls, I think something might be salvageable... I even tried to find a better image, but Image:Woodburn Company Stores Woodburn, Oregon.JPG this one isn't much more representative. Katr67 (talk) 21:03, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
I think it might be salvageable, too, but not being anywhere near Woodburn, it's hard for me to contribute. I'm glad that you brought it up to the WikiProject. As for a better photo, the place looks like any other mall with nothing particularly distinctive about it so I think finding a good photos is going to be difficult. -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 21:14, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
It's actually a huge big deal around here--people drive from miles around to shop there. It's done up to look like some sort of woodsy folksy village motif, I'm not sure how widespread that look is. It's slightly more interesting than a strip mall, I guess, but I'm no judge. Katr67 (talk) 21:23, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

AWB help

Thanks I appreciate your input. -Justin (koavf)·T·C·M 00:51, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Da Duck

Thanks for breaking that out. I suppose I should check on Benny Beaver. That whole Oregon Ducks article is just a mess though. Sigh.

The other thing I was thinking that would be nice for this CW week would be a UO template like this: Template:OSUtemplate I dunno. Maybe those are kinda dumb. Anyway, in case you didn't have anything better to do. I don't know enough about the actual, like, school part of the University to do that. Me just watch sports. --Esprqii (talk) 01:19, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

I hope that was the right thing to do, since it appears The Duck doesn't really have an official name. Benny Beaver is OK, except the image is on the wrong side, but apparently my input about that wasn't welcome, so whatever. But watch out for this guy. But yeah the Ducks article is a total mess. I'm going to try to just concentrate on the main article though, and know exactly why I've avoided working on any of this for so long. I wish akendall was still around. Templates are cool when they show up, but I'm not too into making them, and besides my college experience was atypical. I'll be sure to crib a bunch of other ideas from OSU though. Actually I was looking at the FA university articles and both Oregon schools have a long way to go... Katr67 (talk) 02:11, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
I think you did the right thing. It needs an article and can always be renamed. Yeah, I set the image side right first thing after reading the history. We'll see if that's still an issue. I'm gonna clean that one up some more later. --Esprqii (talk) 03:43, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
Related topic: The UO building template is now collapsed. I hope no one was injured. Also, since you are familiar with the campus, is the "LLC Lillis Business Complex" part missing a seperator dot? It looks like it is, but I've only been to Autzen, McArthur, and the law school on campus so my familiarity is rather low. Thanks. Aboutmovies 06:40, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
Oh, I do so approve of using the official nomenclature from the UO style manual, which is my bible for all things UOy. --Esprqii 00:56, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Gotta practice what we preach. Besides, some of my hard-earned student loan funds went for them cranking out that style guide, so I had better get my money's worth. It's sad the duck doesn't really have a name though. I guess anything more specific than "The Duck" would bum out the Disney folk... Katr67 01:00, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Dept. Planning, Public Policy and Management...

Katr67, I saw that you redirected the content for my contribution. I understand you are a volunteer and volunteer capacity is what makes wikipedia happen. I do view this as a good thing.

I actually work for the University of Oregon's PPPM department and I was asked to make this page. When you redirected the link, the page you redirected it to (University of Oregon) does not actually provide much of the information that is in the article. The big reason for this is because people do not really know what our department does and this page was a starting point to provide basic information for our organization.

To be honest, this whole process is quite interesting to me. I like the collaborative component, but I don't feel that your essential deletion of the page was very collaborative. Please write me back with your thoughts on this.

-Omar —Preceding unsigned comment added by Omarortizmercado (talk • contribs) 20:41, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Ah, you were asked to write the article. OK, first of all, read about our conflict of interest guidelines, and also our business FAQ, some of which also applies. Please also check out what Wikipedia is not. In a nutshell, you have to be very careful when creating articles about things in which you are involved, especially if you are getting paid to edit those articles, as Wikipedia is not here to provide free advertising space for your department. The article as it stands doesn't really offer anything new as far as an encyclopedia article. In other words, it pretty much seems like an advertisement for the program. If you can establish the notability of the program using reliable, third-party sources, then the article might be a viable one. Sources such as the Register-Guard, peer-reviewed journals, The Oregonian, and the like are all good. As it stands, however, I just nominated it for deletion. If you think you can get the article up to Wikipedia standards, feel free to try to improve it. Otherwise, it would probably be best to add a short description of the program to the University of Oregon article, which I honestly had planned to do at some point. As an aside, the article title is very ambiguous and if it is kept, we'll have to move it. I'm sure there are other similarly named management programs. Sorry if you feel my efforts were uncollaborative. Katr67 21:30, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

FA for WPORE COTW

Greetings boys and girls from the fine folks at The Wettest Place on Earth! A thank you to those who helped last week make some good improvements on the U of O and OSU OS articles. For this week, the next stub on the list is Fortune 1000 company Lithia Motors, Inc. way down south in Dixie, which only needs a little added to make it to Start. The other is a bit more of a challenge, but Linus Pauling I believe is our only Nobel Prize winning Oregonian, and a former FA. So hopefully we can get it back to FA, check the talk page’s article history template for comments. Once again, to opt out or suggest future collaborative efforts, click here. Aboutmovies 20:51, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

MAMS

I understand the concept of merging a middle school article into a larger article, but in the case of Mount Angel Middle School, what's the point of "merging" it into a non-existant article? All that does is rename it; there's no article into which to merge it. It just doesn't make any sense to me so I wanted to ask in case I was missing something... VigilancePrime 20:14, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm creating the article right now... Katr67 20:15, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

and a happy (colorful) first day of advent to you too!

Aw shucks, and I didn't get *you* anything. --Esprqii (talk) 22:48, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

You could gift wrap some consensus... Katr67 (talk) 22:52, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
OK, why do they keep &%$#@ing with the user sigs? Is it going to have a link to talk or not? Katr67 (talk) 22:53, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
I don't know, but you're freaking me out with the synchronicity. Do you have the missing half of my locket, too? --Esprqii (talk) 22:59, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
No, it must have something to do with my secret decoder ring. Katr67 (talk) 23:06, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Question about repeated Vandalism to "Environment California" page

Hey there! Are you an administrator? Perhaps you can help out here. Some guy has been repeatedly erasing "Environment California". It apears this is an employee of that group and keeps reverting to an old p.r. stub. User "Christopher Mann McKay" is already being blocked for 48 hours for edit warring on another page, apears to have a long history of this and will not respond to reason.

Thank You for helping! Jimmihoffa (talk) 02:07, 5 December 2007 (UTC)Jimmihoffa

Nope, I'm not an admin, and I don't wish to get involved in what appears to be a content dispute. The version you prefer seems to be full of unsourced POV and gives undue weight to criticism of the organization. Though the user in question's approach isn't the best, I can understand why he is using it. Either attempt to dialogue on the article's talk page (I note there is very little conversation happening there), report the disruption at WP:AN3RR (only if there has been a WP:3RR violation) or attempt to bring the article up to Wikipedia standards using citations to reliable sources. Having canvassed for OSPIRG many years ago, I would say the truth y'all are trying to represent lies somewhere in the middle. The page shouldn't be a grievance page for former workers of the organization. Good luck. P.S. I see several of you who are working on that page are signing your posts with the name and/or date after the ~~~~, but all you have to do is type the 4 tildes and the name and date will be added automatically. Katr67 (talk) 17:03, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
P.P.S. Good advice was also provided here. Katr67 (talk) 17:10, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Jimmihoffa = Portlandy = IP contribs at Environment California?

Something to think about if you make that sockpuppet report. There are also reverts to Environment California (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) from IP addresses that, via WHOIS, trace back to Portland State University. User:131.252.231.160 (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs), specifically, is the one I checked. It's too weak to warrant a checkuser request, IMHO, but it's food for thought. —C.Fred (talk) 22:47, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll AGF until then, and see if s/he will explain. Katr67 (talk) 22:50, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
I'm still AGF myself, but the recent apperance of User:Human growth and development‎ (edit|talk|history|links|watch|logs) seems to be a very curious coincidence. —C.Fred (talk) 23:20, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
Indeed. I'll keep an eye out. Katr67 (talk) 23:21, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
Sorry if I preempted you, but I noticed that the edits all point back to yet another user, User:Richprentice. I think four accounts plus IP edits plus abusive notes on talk pages is pushing good faith a touch far. Orpheus (talk) 00:31, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
That's quite all right, and I agree about Prentice as well. Check my recent contribs for several PSU and one OHSU IPs that I have tagged if you haven't caught all those. Thanks. Katr67 (talk) 00:33, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

(unindent) This diff links the OHSU IP with Jimmihoffa. Disruptive edits also include Environment Oregon. Katr67 (talk) 00:36, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

School stubs

I'm stub-sorting articles, such as Grants Pass School District, if you don't mind. Bearian (talk) 21:15, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Why should I mind? Though {{Oregon-school-stub}} does the work of the two stubs you've added in that case. Am I missing something? Katr67 21:19, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Go ahead and merge the Drouhin-related articles

I've no objection at all.

--EngineerScotty (talk) 00:45, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Kidnaped

Re: [3] Just so you know, "kidnaped" was the preferred American spelling from the 1800s up until the 1980s. It's still how I spell it. I noticed the edit, but I don't normally bother to revert spelling changes. It was probably just some old guy like me that noticed what he thinks of as a spelling error.Kww (talk) 00:41, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Oregon COTW #25 (or so)

Hello again from the COTW of WikiProject Oregon. We thank ye who went forth through the rain and mud and helped out with last week’s articles Lithia Motors and Linus Pauling. Hopefully Linus can return to FA status early next year. This week we have the request of Oregon Ballot Measure 5 (1990) and High importance article Portland Rose Festival. Whatever work you can contribute would be greatly appreciated by our master. Once again, to opt out or suggest future collaborative efforts, click here.[citation needed] Aboutmovies (talk) 07:57, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Really, really bad haiku from a new admin

Setting new lows in thank-you spam:

Click there for my RfA spam haikus! → → →

Katr, thanks so much for your support.

I read your FAQ and saw you're thinking of standing for admin yourself -- let me know if there's anything I can do to help and encourage you with this -- I'd really like to see you as an admin.
--A. B. (talk) 19:27, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Idaho State Historical Society

Just a quick note to let you know the copyedit is done and pending proofread by another LOCE member.

I think this article needs a critical look from a citations standpoint. There are a lot of facts and figures listed in the article, such as the number of employees, the number of visitors, the number of holdings, etc. that should be backed up with a citation. I marked a few of them as I went through, but that wasn't my main focus so there are a lot that I didn't mark.

P.S. I didn't read your talk page until after the copyedit was done... I've got to admit I'm a little embarassed copyediting an article at the request of a professional copy editor :) I'd love to know what you think of my work. Livitup (talk) 21:34, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Pshaw, I'm just an amateur now. What I saw looked great. I noticed a couple little issues (the headers need to be lowercased per WP:MOS), but it is a big improvement. I'll see if I have any more input. Thanks for contributing a third opinion. Katr67 (talk) 22:34, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
Gah! Capitalizing headers is my kryptonite, as it's required in my company's corporate style guide. Be careful on this one, though as a lot of the section titles are the proper names of parts of the organization and thus should be capitalized. Some of them do need to be switched for sure though. Thanks for the complements! Livitup (talk) 04:10, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Please review the NYPIRG page for editing problems!!!

Hi There!I wanted to let you know that user Ultamatemike reverted the NYPIRG page on 7 December 2007 back to its original format. The original format was changed because it did not contain a single citation and was very POV. (actually it reads like an advertisement). I am not sure how to handle this because I don't want an edit war. Perhaps you could take a look! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.100.212.21 (talk) 23:57, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, well, I've reverted the page before as well, so actually, I agree with him, except for the fact the formatting was messed up. I also agree the article has POV issues and I've tagged it as such. BTW, I hope you're not User:Jimmihoffa, et al. Why do you think I'm on your "side"? Just curious. Katr67 (talk) 00:10, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

I don't expect you to be on "My side"!! (Just Fair)

You don't have to be on my side, nor do I expect that. Your an admin so you are supposed to be impartial aren't you? Any way I am not sure what you mean about Jimmy Hoffa. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.100.212.21 (talk) 00:59, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm not an admin. What made you think that? Not Jimmy Hoffa. User:Jimmihoffa, who was very interested in PIRG articles. He mistook me for an admin also. Don't forget to sign your posts. Katr67 (talk) 03:06, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Re: College of Oceanic and Atmospheric Sciences

I think it could potentially be expanded, but as is it could certainly be merged. I think if one were to do some research they could probably find enough to create a decent stand-alone article on it. It does, however, need to be moved to Oregon State University College of Oceanic and Atmospheric Sciences, however. VegaDark (talk) 01:51, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Klamath Mountains

Hi. May I ask why you removed the geography templates from the article? They (the Klamath Mountains) are clearly a geographic feature. The 'Geography navigation' template merely provides further guidance to othe geography related subjects, in case that is how the user navigated to the page. The 'Physical Geography Sub-disciplines' template will help to highlight additional areas in the article that need information of further expansion. Some of those 'sections' are already included in the article, but not all. Since the Klamath Mountains are also a distinct physiographicla section of the United States, to properly 'fill out' the article, those sections should be present, as much as possible, therefore especially the second template is even more important. Please reconsider the removal, or at least make a good case for why they shouldn't be included on the article. Thank you. wbfergus Talk 19:10, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Hi again. Thanks for the quick reply. I am not adding them to every geographic feature, only those specific geographic features on Physiographic regions of the world. All of these articles are of a higher 'importance' than say Mt. Hood, as they used in various studies very similar to ecoregions. As such, they eventually should have sections within the articles to cover all of the various physiographic (Physical Geography) subjects. I have made the more general 'Geography navigation' template collapsible, so that it takes up less room on the screen and is more unobstrusive. I also just sa your other post on the Geography project. Should these 'discussions' be perhaps moved over there, or is this forum adequate to discuss this? Thanks again. wbfergus Talk 19:20, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
I think it's better to have the discussion over there, since I'm not the only one who has questioned this. Katr67 (talk) 19:24, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
That's what I was thinking as well. It would save an awful lot of retyping and keep everything in one place. I will go ahead and copy unless you have already started to. I will wait a few minutes to see, so we don't get an 'Edit conflict' (I hate those!). Thanks again. wbfergus Talk 19:29, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
Copy away. I have some other stuff I should be doing right now... Katr67 (talk) 19:32, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
Hi Katr67. The discussion is over on the Geogrpahy Project talk page at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Geography. Your participation would be most welcome, and perhaps I may have offered enough explanation. Thanks. wbfergus Talk 18:25, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Happy Holidays from WP:ORE

Hello again from the Collaboration of the Week for WikiProject Oregon. This week are two more stubs, the Oregon Garden and former Congressman Robert B. Duncan. Both are close to moving up to Start class, so only a little work is needed. Once again, to opt out or suggest future collaborative efforts, click here. Aboutmovies (talk) 23:57, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

Ha! I was editing Oregon Garden just as I got this notice. The COTW box on the front page works sometimes! Katr67 (talk) 00:12, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
That's great, that's one more edit than for all of last week's COTW articles. I'll see what I can find from the Oregonian. Aboutmovies (talk) 00:44, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

No cats

Nice!, I was just getting ready to do that myself! Dreadstar † 06:06, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Evan Montvel Cohen

Your corrections to Evan's history are based on old articles and very biased sources. Kuam is the main competitor on Guam to Sorensen Media Group and often use Kuam news to attack the competition. Also the New York Sun printed a correction to the article you site two days after it was run and John Cook of the Chicago Tribune and Radar magazine ran a piece about David Lambino's sloppy work. Evan was attacked by right and left wing bloggers but no one ever got the facts right. He didn't authorize the loan to himself (the board of Directors approved the loan) and he was only accused of any wrong doing by the blogoshere. Even right wing assasin Michelle Malkin corrected her attackes after the court documents (posted on the web) proved Cohen demanded that the loan be repaid as part of the sale to Piquant. The story is sexier when your version is written but it is not factual. it takes time and effort to sift through and get to the truth but you should work at it if you want to edit about a human beings life and character. i work with Evan and know what happened. Leon Colaco —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.151.89.144 (talk) 12:53, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

That's all great, but unless you can provide citations to reliable sources, then the corrections you wish to make are only original research. Feel free to add what info you think is needed--with citations--please read the blue links to policy and guidelines I have provided and don't worry about getting the format perfect. I don't have a "my" version. Did you check the page history and edit summaries? I was actually trying to provide some balance to the article, and had restored some of the neutral-to-good info, even though it wasn't sourced. So far the only info that is sourced is the negative info and around here sourced info trumps unsourced. (Thus, another editor "commented out" the unsourced neutral-to-positive info, leaving only the negative.) Though I had planned to look up some sources. (god knows why, as this article is far outside my area of interest and I had never heard of the guy before, but I'm a good Wikipedian, I guess. And a volunteer, I might add.) But since you feel so strongly about it, it is really your responsibility to find sources. We are all equals here (though anons are slightly less equal so you might want to sign up for an account). And as noted on the article's talk page, anyone who has a close connection with Cohen should read up on conflict of interest before editing the article. I don't care one way or the other which way the story is spun, please assume good faith, at least on my part, I can't speak for anybody else working on the article. Let me know if you have further questions. Katr67 (talk) 17:02, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

The banter here in this discussion is interesting but it appears despite your best efforts to stay unbiased you have become biased. In the early days of liberal talk radio, Evan Cohen and Air America became the subject of great interest in the blogosphere. So what was conjecture, speculation, and outright determination to shut down a liberal radio station then leaked into mainstream media - namely The New York Sun. However, The New York Sun retracted its story about Cohen. Cohen did borrow money from the Gloria Wise Boys and Girls Club but he did it with the consent of the board of directors. The board of directors gave him the loan. He did not give himself the loan. I have done my research and documents indicate that during the sale of Air America Cohen made it a stipulation of the agreement that Piquant LLC pay back the money from the Gloria Wise Boys and Girls Club. People may not like the fact he received a loan from the group but it was a loan the board approved. Cohen continues to be involved in media projects and all you have to do is look at www.pacificnewscenter.com (media section)or www.sorensenmediagroup.com. So no matter what was reported the facts are he asked for a loan from the Gloria Wise Boys and Girls Club and the board decided to give him the loan, Cohen did not take the money out of the organization himself. It appears Cohen had the intention of paying back the loan because the sale of Air America included a provision that would have the new owners pay back the money. The fact that the author chooses to incorporate an alleged $20,000 outstanding bill from a media competitor in the article could indicate that the author is biased especially since the story cited was written by the same media competitor. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.128.20.11 (talk • contribs) 12:13, December 19, 2007

Please stop posting on my talk page--let's keep this discussion on the Cohen page. Thank you. Katr67 (talk) 16:30, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
Hi again. I see that you pasted the above from the article's talk page. Please don't do that--one, some people would consider that spamming, which isn't the best way to get your point across. And two, I have the Cohen page on my watchlist, so I already know when you post on the talk page there--no need to repeat the post here. Unfortunately sometimes the Wikipedia process takes a lot of "banter". Like GoodDamon urged you, I'd suggest getting an account and reading up on some of Wikipedia's core policies so you can understand what is happening with the Cohen article. Thanks. Katr67 (talk) 16:43, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
I took a look at the article and tried to add some neutral background info/general expansion. Not really that notable of a person, only 20 hits in LexisNexis' "news" search. Though maybe he uses a shorter version of his name. Not a whole lot of positive press on the guy, but apparently there was an HBO special on the Air America launch with him prominent in the feature. Now that its on my watchlist I'll check back in there if anything flares up. Aboutmovies (talk) 18:07, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks

...for removing the "blocked" vandalism on my talk page. Jauerback (talk) 00:56, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

You're welcome. I was a victim of that "blocked" thing too. And BTW, sorry about any bad faith you might be experiencing lately. Cheers, Katr67 (talk) 02:13, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Kate Mann Article Nobility

Just saw your message. I am working on finding more sources now. So I hope it will be left up while I search that out. Thanks and please reply on either the discussion page of the article or on my personal talk page. THanks --Danielquasar (talk) 03:01, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Oregon Air National Guard

I just noticed the above redirects to Oregon National Guard (happened in August). Do you remember any sort of discussion somewhere? Neither page had a move request. Aboutmovies (talk) 07:42, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

I took note of the move at some point and shrugged. I think I concluded it sort of made sense, YMMV. Katr67 (talk) 18:59, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Holiday COTW

Greetings to all the WikiProject Oregon crew. Happy holidays to those who celebrate holidays. Thanks to those who helped out with last week’s articles Oregon Garden and Robert B. Duncan. Due to the holidays and people likely to be spending less time on Wikipedia, the new Collaboration of the Week will run for two weeks (OK actually I’ll be out of the country, but same difference). The first item will be a general Reference Improvement Drive. So find an article, source an tagged sentence or bring all the citations up to WP:CITE standards. The other item is a Tagging Drive, looking for those random articles about Oregon that do not yet have a {{WikiProject Oregon}} tag on the talk page. In the past I’ve found the Category:People from Oregon and its sub cats fertile ground for the lost Oregon souls. Once again, to opt out or suggest future collaborative efforts, click here. Aboutmovies (talk) 05:52, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

MOS reference question

Hi katr67,

when you have a moment could you take a quick look at T-34. It's the first article I've come across that uses Harvard referencing. Are the references supposed to be used like a scholarly journal where it actually shows in the text? I just spent hours cleaning up a similar article, but it was a mishmash of HR and inline and did not use the citing syntax this article uses. I certainly don't want to jump in and "fix" something just because I think it's broken. Maybe it's just me but I found that style very distracting. Any way any feedback here or my talk would be helpful. Awotter (talk) 05:44, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

Heya. WP:CITE lists Harvard referencing as an acceptable choice. I'd agree that the style is distracting, but yes, the consensus is if it ain't broke, don't fix it, though certainly if there is a mixture of styles, it should be made consistent. Looking at T-34, I'd say the article should be converted to one style, but it might be a good idea to discuss it on the talk page first. Katr67 (talk) 20:00, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
Thanks katr67, I did do the talk page no feedback yet. I'm not in any great hurry to change things, but I did look at the template used and it seems to have been done for this article, so I will get in touch with they editor who used it before doing anything. I was able to put together a fix that would keep the citations as they are but with a Notes and references/Bibliography section that would allow future contributers to use either style. The difference being all the links would be the numbered style, linked to their specific source (and visa versa) and not appear in full Harvard glory in the actual article. Anyway, Happy New Year and thanks again. Awotter (talk) 20:28, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

William Pope McArthur

I am impressed you noticed this article minutes after I created it! McArthur mapped Oregon's entire Pacific Coast from California to the Columbia River. I probably should have itemized it since he also mapped California north of San Francisco. I am surprised to see your wonderful capitol paintings comprehensive article in a user page. It would be great if you could move it to the main space. And of course there's an appeal to get a photo of the painting. I'll try to upload a photo of him shortly. Americasroof (talk) 01:34, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Hi. I saw that you had linked him from Lewis Linn McArthur, and the name rang a bell. WikiProject Oregon is ever vigilant for new Oregon-related articles! Oregon Geographic Names, started by his grandson, is one of my bibles. Those McArthurs sure got around. Thanks for the vote of confidence on the capitol names list. When we were working on Oregon State Capitol, we had discussed whether the list was encyclopedic enough to put into mainspace and I decided to wait until it had fewer redlinks. Oh and it's not a single painting, exactly, the names are painted around the frieze of both chambers. You can see what I mean here: Image:ORCapInteriorSenate.JPG. Did you notice William P. had a Liberty Ship named after him? The capitol names book I have only has a paragraph or so on each person, but I think I can add a couple sentences to the article... Cheers! Katr67 (talk) 02:55, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
Oh, I missed that conversation! I'd say this list is encyclopedic enough, without question. I've often wondered whether one historical figure or another had his/her name there. I'd be happy to stubbify a redlink or two if that would sway your opinion! -Pete (talk) 03:00, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
Cool, Pete! I'll take you up on that! Wait a couple minutes while I mess with the list--you will see bolding and if you open up the article in edit mode, you will see how many things link to that article, the bolding indicating which articles are most needed. Katr67 (talk) 03:07, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
This is all wikipedia at its best connecting the dots. I wondered in here thinking I would do a stub or two on the NOAA McArthur ships (on which my brother has spends several months each year and on which I have visited him). There's a ton of google links on him and I will dig in a little bit more. He's a big time hero for map freaks. So I will expand the reference section more. Something else that is cool about all this is that his uncle patron Lewis F. Linn in Missouri wrote the legislation that led to government sale of land in Oregon which in turn led to the Oregon Trail. Thanks for the link also for the Liberty ship. Americasroof (talk) 03:36, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
I think I will point to this discussion in the future, when people ask me why I bother with all of this Wikipedia silliness! I created a stub on W. Price Hunt, because I couldn't figure out whether his name was William or Wilson! I'll try to come back for another few over the next few days. Also, wondering if I'll be able to swing my first WP:DYK out of this ;) By the way, here's a handy link for the list everybody keeps referring to. -Pete (talk) 03:51, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
This discussion prompted to review the other article I have the in the Oregon project (the Astor Expedition). You will find a lot on Wilson Price Hunt via google. I notice that there was a speedy delete because it redirected to a non-existent article. In the connect the dots category, my interest in the expedition was because it wintered in northwest Missouri (where I'm from). The area was part of the Platte Purchase which was another project of Senator Linn.Americasroof (talk) 04:08, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Adolph Aschoff

Katr, I don't think those were test edits, I think they were intentional edits from the guy's great grandson. Some of them appear to correct uncited errors in the existing article. I left a note for the IP, hopefully he will stick around and help improve the article. -Pete (talk) 23:26, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Oh gosh, I didn't scoll down to see the citation. I just saw what looked like typical (for vandals/test editors) slight changes to dates and such. I reverted myself and added a {{OR}} template. Too bad that whole article is already badly in need of inline citations--so hard to fix, and so hard to just gut and start over... Thanks for the heads up! Katr67 (talk) 23:31, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Mountain passes in Oregon

It seems that many of the mountain passes in Oregon category do not have the associated county as a category....

Also it would seem useful if the mountain pass list was augmented to include all the passes that ODOT lists special weather watches on "www.tripcheck.com", as sometimes figuringout where those are can be a mystery.

A couple that are missing is Linn County "Tombstone" pass in US 20 and also Stinkingwater pass and Drinkingwater passes (with redlink of Juntura inbetween east of Burns.

Also someone deleted the Summer Lake (Oregon) lake page which has caused a number of red links. It is one of the larger lakes in Oregon, and deserves an article (as well as being on the short list of 'subbasins' in the Great Basin.Rvannatta (talk) 07:30, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Summer Lake (Oregon), as you can see here was apparently deleted because all it said was "Summer Lake is a lake in Oregon". As for the rest--be BOLD, my friend! I hope things are drying out/no longer sliding in your neck of the woods. Nice pic of the snowy Doug-firs, BTW. Katr67 (talk) 07:37, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
well there are still things on the move that shouldn't be (like hills), and it is still raining, but it is hard to predict what will move far enough to matter. I'm sort of working on the photo stuff to try to get some seasonally different photos. There are many different views of things through the seasons. Phototogs sometimes get carried away in only one season, or in trying to make ugly things look pretty (when they aren't) when sometimes maybe we should show it like it is. See U.S. Route 197 (Maupin bridge).

ODOT ought to give out a prize to some bridge engineer, for the uglist ugly duckling in history for that thing.Rvannatta (talk) 04:52, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you

Thank you for the kind words and encouragement. I hope I didn't butcher the Wiki system too badly. My interest right now is focused on Civil War veterans buried in Oregon. I have been fortunate to have some of my work professionally published and I am amazed at how good a professional editor can make my writing look. So edit away with my thanks.

--Randy Fletcher (talk) 18:09, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Question on Lists

Again thanks for the feedback. I see that you are responsible for a lot of the Oregon lists. I have two lists I am working on and ask you if you think they should be included in Wikipedia. One is Civil War Nurses Buried in Oregon and the other is African-American Civil War Veterans Buried in Oregon. Both lists will be small as I believe there are less than a dozen in each category. The problem is it is my own research. I am relying on my search of the Spencer Leonard list of Civil War veterans buried in Oregon. Mr. Leonard compiled this list from GAR records, obituaries, and personal surveys of cemeteries. To my knowledge it has never been published. The original hand written notes are in the possession of the Genealogical Forum of Oregon. I have been entering the info in Findagrave as I go. If you don't think I should enter the info into Wikipedia myself, I would be more than happy to give you the info to enter. I am not doing it for my ego. Since I turned 50 I have vowed to add to the historical record for Oregon. Let me know what you think. Also, should I get a user name that doesn't identify me. I generally use my name because I always forget user names. Happy New Year.

--Randy Fletcher (talk) 04:02, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Hi. Hmm. I think those lists sound interesting but are borderline. Perhaps make them subsections of a greater list of Civil War vets buried in Oregon. EncMstr is more of the list person than I am, so you might ask him. You might also check in with Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history--I bet they would be a big help. Re: Original Research--that's a tricky one. Normally we frown on the most obvious types of OR, where people walk around someplace and describe what they see, offer opinions, etc. Even so, using actual records is tricky, since generally on the wiki we want to be using secondary sources. Again, check with the history project. Re: Username--Wikipedia:User account policy will tell you it's up to you, whether you identify yourself. Some people think it fosters trust, though obviously those of a stalkerish bent, like me ;), can easily see who you are. I was gonna say, nice work on Find-A-Grave (I signed up and added my grandparents to Rest Lawn in JC today) and ask if you might have run into my friends who used to be Civil War reenactors (116th Pennsylvania Volunteer Infantry, Co. B). If that bothers you, then you might want to change your username. A determined stalker could probably figure out who I am in real life from the clues I've left on the wiki, but I choose not to make it easy for them by revealing my real name. I hope that helps! Happy New Year to you too. P.S. Eugene Pioneer Cemetery needs an article, if you're so inclined. :) Katr67 (talk) 04:29, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Eugene Pioneer Cemetery I took a shot at an article on Eugene Pioneer Cemetery. I also uploaded two pictures I took of the cemetery but could not figure out how to link the images. I am also stumped by in-line citations. --Randy Fletcher (talk) 01:25, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for taking my suggestion! I'll take a look and see if I can help. Katr67 (talk) 01:47, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Assessment of recent Oregon Airports Articles

Regarding my assessment of these articles, I consider an article with a defined structure, an Airport infobox, and proper references as a 'Start' class, regardless of the length. These are 3 of the 5 criteria for a B class article, so in my opinion these articles are halfway to a B status and should be classified as 'Start'. The articles added by User:Trevor MacInnis in recent weeks all fall into this class. I feel the Infobox contains a great deal of condensed information comparable to a longer, all text article. I've been trying to seperate the obvious unorganized 'stubs' from the ones that people have put some time and effort into 'start'ing. If there are particular ones that I have misclassified, please let me know. I am still learning :^) Carl M. Anglesea (talk) 19:16, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm. Well, it seems WP:AVIATION does use different criteria than the standard assessments, per Template:Grading scheme, which is why the assessments don't match. I'm not sure what to do at this point, because by WP:ORE standards, articles such as Tuality Hospital Heliport are stubs (note the article also includes a stub tag, which usually automatically confers "Stub" status to the assessment), and I suppose I would risk offending you/going against your project's consensus if I were to downgrade the dozens of Oregon airport articles that need assessement by WP:ORE from "Start" to "Stub". Note that according to Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Assessment, "Unlike the quality scale, the priority scale varies based on the project scope." Which seems to imply that the quality scale should match across projects, which is the principle I use and have seen in operation around the wiki. Since you seem to be following your WikiProject's guidelines, I obviously can't fault your assessements, but I do think Aviation's assessment criteria may need updating. Katr67 (talk) 20:04, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
P.S. Here's some links to help find the articles in question: Category:Airports in Oregon, Category:Unassessed Oregon articles. Katr67 (talk) 20:17, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
Your example, Tuality Hospital Heliport, has 'at least one serious element of gathered materials,' namely the information a pilot needs to locate and use the heliport. If size matters, I cannot think of much more information that could be added to the article that doesn't already exist in the linked Tuality Community Hospital. I believe some articles like this heliport are pretty near complete and will not get much bigger because they are not as extensive as Portland International Airport for example. Carl M. Anglesea (talk) 21:18, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
Well, I would tend to disagree as far as Wikipedia is an encyclopedia for general readers and not a guide for pilots--by those criteria, that article is still a stub. Note that the rest of the section on gathered materials continues: "including any one of the following: a particularly useful picture or graphic, multiple links that help explain or illustrate the topic, a subheading that fully treats an element of the topic, multiple subheadings that indicate material that could be added to complete the article." Surely there is some prose that could be added to most of those articles--some history, etc. And some stubs never expand and there's nothing wrong with that. Katr67 (talk) 21:27, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
I agree with the addition of a picture for the heliport and history for some of the other airports; that would propel them into a B class. I disagree with the need for the class ratings to agree between projects. It seems that it could be a 'stub' by Oregon standards if you see more information in its future and still be a 'start' by Aviation standards if we feel it is near complete. I refer you to a similar discussion we are having at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Aircraft regarding fictional aircraft, which are only a passing interest to Aviation, but important to the gamers. Carl M. Anglesea (talk) 21:43, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Sorry Carl, but I'm going to have to agree with Kat here. Tuality Hospital Heliport and other articles of that size are most definitely stub-class. To be start class, they should have most of these items. In a new article, the bare minimum I would consider a start would be, for example, this. I know, it's very subjective. Myself, I don't consider the infobox as being a substantial part of an article because, in general, infobox's are supposed to be summaries of information that is also found in the body of the article. In the case of Tuality Heliport the infobox is the only information found.

As for the difference in the grading schemes. I originally models the aviation scheme after the Military history Wikiproject's scheme. The criteria for stub and start are exactly the same, and the criteia for FA, A, and GA are the same, if worded differntly. The main difference is the B-class, which is done this way to incorporate the B-class checlist used in the banner. - Trevor MacInnis (Contribs) 08:43, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Ok. I can distinguish 'stubs' from 'starts' better now. I will review my classifications from last week and revise (this weekend, hopefully). Thanks. Carl M. Anglesea (talk) 12:22, 3 January 2008 (UTC) Done! Carl M. Anglesea (talk) 03:28, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Sorry... Not!

Hi Katr67. You seem like a really good person and I'd like to thank you for your comments. You were very polite, sometimes I lack politeness. I just don't see why the other user deleted my page. The film is in production and a release date has been announced. Your friend Creamy3 (talk) 21:07, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

If you want to know why the article was deleted, you shouldn't call an administrator a slob. That kind of behavior is not going to win you friends around here. And no offense, but I don't think we're friends. Kthanks. Now go rewrite your post to accounting4taste--s/he's the one who deserves an apology, not me. Katr67 (talk) 21:11, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
Listen, I apologized for calling him a slob so why don't you just let it go. I've taken back my apology to you, and by the way; I don't owe Acounting4Taste an apology. And no offense to you, but I knew we weren't friends. I'm on good terms with Accounting4Taste now and I don't need your self-righteous speeches. Kthanks. Creamy3 (talk) 23:04, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
LOL. Good for you! Have a great day! Katr67 (talk) 23:27, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
Sounds like somebody's got a case of the Mondays! -Pete (talk) 23:30, 14 January 2008 (UTC)