Talk:Katyusha (song)

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Contents 1 Media file 2 Apple trees 3 Italian Version 4 When "G" is "V" 5 Deleted text 6 Translation Please 7 Compyright Violation?!? PLEASE EXPLAIN 8 Katyusha.ogg 9 "Free" translation

[edit] Media file

Whoever linked the enthusiastic performance by a drunken deaf non-Russian speaker as a sample, please find some better performer! It's a sheer insult and is as far from the original as it ever can get. The only good thing about it that it's not copyrighted, as no-one would ever consider that noise an intelectual property.

[edit] Apple trees

'Yabloki' for 'apples ' is mis-spelled both Russian and transliteration; there may be more errors. There's no 'n' in 'yabloki', just a 'k' sound'.

It's "yabloni" for "apple trees", not "apples", and it's correct. -- EJ 12:03, 20 August 2005 (UTC)

EJ is RIGHT. It's yabloni. Just heard the song again and my Russian wife confirmed. --Pinnecco 21:58, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Italian Version

There is also an Italian Version called "Fischia il vento" (The Wind Blows). It is a Word War Second Partisan Song. [1]

[edit] When "G" is "V"

Ok. It is not the first time that people edited the translateration of Katyusha and changed the words with г (such as степного) to "g" (stepnogo) instead of "v" (stepnovo).

We all know that by general rule, г transliterates as "G". However, in these cases, it is pronouced as "v". Russian is a language full of exceptions. And please, bear in mind these are TRANSLITERATIONS. If you have any doubt, please download the tune on the link provided in the article and LISTEN to it. --Pinnecco 22:13, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

What? A 'V' sound? I don't see any B (veh). It's clearly г (geh).

-G —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.231.140.52 (talk • contribs) .

Pinnecco means that степного has been phonetically transcribed stepnovo, instead of being transliterated stepnogo. It would probably be more appropriate to transliterate in this case. —Michael Z. 2006-01-18 23:09 Z

NO one, NO ONE that I EVER met that knows Russian (that includes my wife, her entire family and our friends) says 'stepnogo'. They say 'stepnoVo'. The transliterated text has been added to the article so people that can't read cyrillc can try to follow the music. --Pinnecco 09:45, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Pinnecco, people will be misled by seeing the 'stepnogo' transliteration, as this isn't how it is pronounced. Any 'ogo' (ого) ending in Russian is pronouned 'ova' or 'ovo' (depending on the region). The only way to reconcile the two that I can think of would be by adding a footnote on the 'stepnogo' transliteration noting how it is supposed to be pronounced. Otherwise, I think 'stepnovo' should remain. Schnabeltier Angriff 17:39, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Just to be clear:

Transliteration is the reproduction of Cyrillic spelling using Latin letters. This is widely used in Wikipedia to make Cyrillic written text accessible to readers of English. For the guideline, see Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Cyrillic) and Wikipedia:Romanization of Russian.

Phonetic transcription is used to convey pronunciation. This would be more suitable for a song sheet rather than an encyclopedia. To convey pronunciation in Wikipedia, the International Phonetic Alphabet is most commonly used. Guideline: Wikipedia:Manual of Style (pronunciation). Russian-language example: National Anthem of the Soviet Union#IPA transcription.

So, to write stepnovo in a transliteration is misleading, because it says that the original spelling is степново. We also don't transliterate akanye, so it's not stepnova. The pronunciation of Russian is up to the reader. —Michael Z. 2006-08-03 18:01 Z

Ok, point taken. Thanks for the explanation. I opt to have a phonetic transcription on this article, thouh. See my and Schnabeltier Angriff's views above. --Pinnecco 12:21, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Deleted text

The following text was commented out some time ago; I'm deleting from the body and moving here. - Bantman 19:30, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Katyusha is a Soviet song often related to Communism and the soviets, and although it is a song of a quite pleasant melody and its lyrics are about love and have nothing to do with politics, it can displease people who are against Communism. --The comment seems to be unencyclopedic and Molobish: I don't see how the song is related to Communism or soviets

Then I suggest that you get yourself more informed. This is a song that was often sung by Soviet officials and soldiers. It talks about a girl that misses her lover who is enlisted, and it was wrote in the Soviet times. The soviet feeling is DEEPLY IMPLIED IN THIS SONG. Your argument is like saying that "Facetta Nera" has nothing to do with Facism because it doesn't explicitly talk about it. I've been into social events where this song had upset nationals from countries that had been occupied by the USSR. --Pinnecco 22:08, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

"Katyusha" says that Katyusha's lover is defending their country at the front. That's the only politics/war linked part of the text. Any link to communism (which shouldn't be a problem anyway unless due to ignorance) is not explicit. Several USSR "occupied" countries have a mild despice for anything Russian due to the Cold War, but that doesn't imply that "Katyusha" promotes the political system established in USSR. It's just a war-time romantic Soviet song. -Unregistered user, "Zealot_Kommunizma"

I know this comment is old, but a few weeks ago I met with some Lithuanians. They are not very found of Katyusha for the reasons I have mentioned above. I agree that most of the time the connection to communism might be made due to ignorance, but I've met well educated people from former soviet countries (i.e.: post-graduate students), and whom seem to be well aware of history and origins of Katyusha -- nevertheless, then are not very found of this tune either. I agree this song doesn't imply Soviet propaganda such as The Sacred War, but nevertheless the argument I hear is that "it doesn't matter, it is a Soviet song. And we don't like Soviets". I personally disagree with this view, but who am I to judge? My country was never "invaded" by Soviets. --Pinnecco 12:21, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Translation Please

Okay, I'd added information about the Chinese version about the song and also added the lyrics in Russian (my information source: the Chinese Wikipedia). I don't speak Russian, so can any kind Russian-speaking Wikipedians translate the the lyrics into English please? It would be good if we also have an English lyrics. Thanks. By the way, shall we add the lyrics in Japanese, Italian, Chinese versions as well (since these three versions were talked about in the article)? I do have the Chinese version of lyrics. --Cantaire87 13:15, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Compyright Violation?!? PLEASE EXPLAIN

How can the LYRICS OF A FOLK SOVIET SONG be copyrighted? By who?! I'll be adding the lyrics back. If anyone wants to remove it, you'll have to prove that these lyrics are copyrighted. Katyusha is a traditional folk song made during the war and there is no such as thing such as copyright then. Check the Tetris article. In fact:

"Works belonging to the former Soviet government or other Soviet legal entities published before January 1st, 1954, are also public domain in Russia."

Also..

Article 6. Object of Copyright. General Provisions

Copyright shall not apply to ideas, methods, processes, systems, means, concepts, principles, discoveries, and facts.

Article 8. Works That Are Not Objects of Copyright

The following shall not be objects of copyright:

       * official documents (laws, judicial decisions, and other legislative, administrative and judicial texts), as well as their official translations;
       * state symbols and signs (flags, emblems, orders, banknotes and other national symbols and signs);
       * works of folk art; news reports on events and facts.

To sum up, this whole copyright issue is bull*

Once again some vandal removed the Russian and transliterated lyrics of Katyusha. I'll be requesting the lyrics to be RE-ADDED and a lock-down of this article if people continue to do this. There is NO REASON to remove the original russian and transliaterated lyrics. I am neutral about the removal of the english translation, though. --201.53.160.159 (talk) 17:50, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Katyusha.ogg

Sorry, I am going to delete a reference to this file from the article. It's terribly performed and it's completely off-key! It's very distant from the original! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.218.28.226 (talk) 07:39, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] "Free" translation

The "free" translation seems subjective and perhaps doesn't belong in an encyclopedic description. The more literal English translation is truer to the original Russian and yet stills sounds acceptable in English. The "free" translation should probably be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.29.241.232 (talk) 03:18, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Done. "Free" translation of unknown auntorship does not belog here. `'Míkka>t 08:45, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Why did you remooved all translations then?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yegor Chernyshev (talk • contribs) 08:25, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

And what happened to the original lyrics too?... Adys (talk) 09:02, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

I have restored from a November 2007 version. I do not know why anyone is removing these lyrics; they are clearly encyclopedic and are certainly in the public domain. Nimur (talk) 16:54, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Violation of copyright laws is not some community design in wikipedia. it is against the law. If you don't know the copyright status, you dont have right to assume it is free. In fact, it is not. If you continue inserting the text of the song into wikipedia, the article will be protected from editing. Or, if you prefer, you will be blocked from editing. `'Míkka>t 21:36, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

	This work may be in the public domain in Russia. Please use instead: {{PD-RU-exempt}} - for state emblems, flags, armorial bearings, decorations, monetary signs and other official symbols and signs of the Russian Federation and USSR {{PD-old-70}} - for cases where the author died more than 70 years ago {{PD-Russia-2008}} - for works which were in the public domain before January 1, 2008 in Russia and are still in the public domain after this date {{PD-RusEmpire}} - for works published in the territory of the Russian Empire prior to November 7, 1917. {{PD-US-1923-abroad}} - when none of the above apply, but the work was published outside the U.S. prior to 1923 {{PD-US-1996}} - when the work was published outside the U.S. between 1923 and 1977, and was in the public domain in the home country on January 1, 1996 If none of the above apply or can be determined, the work may still be usable under the non-free content policy. Use an appropriate non-free license template and include a non-free use rationale. For more information see also Template notes.
This license tag is deprecated! Please use one of the following instead: {{PD-RU-exempt}} - for state emblems, flags, armorial bearings, decorations, monetary signs and other official symbols and signs of the Russian Federation and USSR {{PD-old-70}} - for cases where the author died more than 70 years ago {{PD-Russia-2008}} - for works which were in the public domain before January 1, 2008 in Russia and are still in the public domain after this date {{PD-RusEmpire}} - for works published in the territory of the Russian Empire prior to 7 November 1917. {{PD-US-1923-abroad}} - when none of the above apply, but the work was published outside the U.S. prior to 1923 {{PD-US-1996}} - when the work was published outside the U.S. between 1923 and 1977, and was in the public domain in the home country on January 1, 1996 If none of the above apply or can be determined, the work may still be usable under the non-free content policy. Use an appropriate non-free license template and include a non-free use rationale. If this work was uploaded with this template after 1 May 2008, it should be tagged with {{subst:nld}}. If the copyright status of this work cannot be confirmed as free, and usage does not meet requirements of the non-free content policy, it should be tagged as possibly unfree or listed for deletion.

. Nimur (talk) 05:44, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

It should be made absolutely clear that the copyright status is well defined (there are no assumptions being made) - in this case, the work is in the public domain, as it was authored before 1940. As a public domain work in both the US and Russia, there is no applicable copyright to the lyric. Nimur (talk) 05:54, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

and the creator (if known) died before that date - Mikhail Isakovsky died in 1973. `'Míkka>t 15:32, 12 March 2008 (UTC)