Talk:Kathak

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Hi, I am a Kathak practitioner and would like to share few facts that have recently been discovered. These are a couple of literary references from fourth century BC and third century BC that refer to Kathak dancers. The two texts were discovered in the archives of Kameshwar Library at Mithila.

These are as follows: ‘maggasirasuddhapakkhe nakkhhate varanaseeye nayareeye uttarpuratthime diseebhage gangaye mahanadeeye tate savvokathako bhingarnatenam teese stuti kayam yehi raya adinaho bhavenam passayi’ (ancient Prakrit text, 4th century BC)

(ie In the month of magha, in the period of shukla paksha nakshatra, to the north west of Varanasi, on the banks of the Ganges, the shringar dance of the kathaks in praise of God, pleased Lord Adinatha).

(The Prakrit text in Prakrit script is available with me)

B: 3rd century BC Sanskrit shloka:

…….anahat …. nrityadharmam kathakaccha devalokam ….. (Mithila, late Mauryan period)

{ie ‘ …. sound …. and the Kathaks whose duty is dance towards devalok or heaven…..’}

C: The 2 verses from the Mahabharata also refer to Kathaks:

‘Kathakscapare rajan sravanasca vanaukasahadivyakhyanani ye ca’pi pathanti madhuram dwijaha’

                                                       (Mahabharata, verse 1.206.2-4, Adiparva)

{ie With the king on the way to the forest were the Kathakas pleasing to the eyes and ears as they sang and narrated sweetly ….} Here the emphasis on ‘pleasing to the eyes’ is indication of the performing aspect of the ‘Kathaks’. The other verse is from the Anusasnika Parva.

In post Christian era, there is reference to Kathak in the Harsha charita of Bana

This information could be included in your main text. Regards Shovana Narayan

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Hi, I think there is a lot of repetition in the article. And it is patchy. For one, the length on Muslim influences is just too long, without much detail. If others have questions, let us discuss it here. Chaipau 22:19, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kathak Yoga

This section does not beong to this article, which is about the dance form. The section rightfully belongs in its own article. Chaipau 11:05, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

I beg to disagree. As you know art is not static, it continually evolves. Kathak Yoga represents an evolution of the dance form. The different gharanas were an innovation in their time, Kathak Yoga is a recent innovation. Please tell me if there have been any other major innovations. I can edit it for content but an article by itself is not justified. As we know there are many Kathak artists and the beauty of Kathak is that it is not dominated by one artist but is like an Indian garden, each artist comes and cross-pollinates the art. This is not fusion but innovation within the tradtion. Kathak yoga includes all the elements of kathak.

--Jpamnani 17:41, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

The extensive treatment that is given to Kathak Yoga means it deserves its own place on Wikipedia. As you see, the Lucknow and the Jaipur Gharana themselves are not treated extensively in this article. As the Kathak article becomes bigger, they too will find their own rightful place in Wikipedia. I suggest -- mention Kathak Yoga in the Kathak article, and then give it the extensive treatment in the main article. This in no way means Kathak Yoga is not part of Kathak, because Wikipedia cannot decide on this issue. Chaipau

I think it is very rude of you to remove this article, I request you put this article back (and modify) or I will. --Jpamnani 01:51, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Ok, deep breath and stay cool. (See: Wikipedia:Etiquette). I don't know much about yoga, but can you and User:Chaipau work this out as reasonable people? GChriss 03:12, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

This article is about Kathak, the dance form. Kathak Yoga and other innovations deserve mention here. Agreed. But they should not crowd out the main article. Here, the main points of departure (or innovations) with respect to the canonical form should be mentioned. For more details a separate article on Kathak Yoga is more appropriate. Chaipau 18:23, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Adding kathak exponents' contact information

I think it would be useful to add links to this article to the websites of kathak exponents such as Rani Khannam or Janaki Patrik. Please let me know if there are any objections to this otherwise I will continue to do so. I had difficulty finding a teacher in my area and I think it's useful in connecting students and teachers to do this.

It is great to have links. You could also try List of Kathak dancers to add and link.

Chaipau 21:32, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Persian influence

Did Kathak have any significant Persian influence? I might be wrong, but isn't the influence primarily Turkic instead of Persian? deeptrivia (talk) 02:32, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Hi deeptrivia. I think it's difficult to trace elements from Turkic culture which could have influenced Kathak because of the sheer length of time between the time of first Turkic influence in India (the Islamic Sultanates of the 13th century) and also because of the lack of any detailed records as to what kinds of dance were performed in this period. So I suppose this doesn't prove Turkic influence on Kathak, but nor does it preclude it either during this period.

Although the Mughal rulers claimed descent from Mongols, their courts drew in many artists from Persia as well (whence came the santoor and other musical instruments), some musical modes like Raga Yaman, and so on; and of course the Sufis were influential in Kathak without necessarily being of one locality or another. Unfortunately, although for example it seems very likely that the fast spins were a result of Sufi influence (because other Indian Classical dances don't show such fast turns), it's quite difficult to prove that it wasn't an innovation by Kathak independent of outside influence. But distinguishing which movements or styles were particularly Persian, Turkic or Indian is certainly not easy.

I think the main influence was the shift to the Mughal courts, which made artists tailor their entertainment to their new audience, which necessitated incorporating ghazals and other more Islamic elements into the presentation.

H1es- 15:40, 23 April 2007 (UTC)