Talk:Kate Ellis
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202.83.89.243 seems to have something with Kate Ellis and Ryan Milne :-) - 06:53, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
Big fan of the new photo...--schgooda 07:35, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Death seat?
Can we confirm? I was under the impression that this was a prime seat, right in front of the camera.
[edit] Graduation
Is there any evidence Kate Ellis graduated from university? No qualifications are listed on her parliamentary webpage. As much of her portfolio looks after university students (ef her current roles into the VSU enquiry), surley this would be relevant. In anycase, saying she studying at university as the article currently does, if she didn't graduate, could be perceived as giving a very misleading impression. Auspoliticsbuff (talk) 03:32, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
- The information appears to come from her ALP profile at [1]. The suggestion is that she studied there but did not finish - however I fail to see how this would be relevant either. All the references, including her official CV for public events, mentions that she studied there and her role in student politics there. This link confirms she was General Secretary of the Students' Association in 2000. This site (not valid per WP:RS however) suggests she got "distracted by the world of student politics", got full time employment, travelled, then ran for parliament, and has plenty of quotes from her - however, it disagrees with several of her CVs as to which high school she went to. Orderinchaos 04:05, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
- I certainly agree with most of this, my simple point is that the fact she studied there but did not finish, as would seem to be the case, is relevant due to the nature of her portfolio. If this is indeed the case, then the current phrasing gives a misleading impression that she graduated and ought be looked at Auspoliticsbuff (talk) 04:07, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
- How does her portfolio influence what personal details are on her wiki page exactly? Timeshift (talk) 04:34, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
- Actually, no it isn't. The facts are indeterminate - we can only go on conflicting hints from different publications and that isn't enough - although it is verifiable that she studied there and that she was in charge of the student association and had a role on the Academic Council of Flinders University. Those would expose a person to far more of what universities have to deal with than simply being a student and having graduated - I'm sure a large majority of students who finish at an institution have no idea how their university runs (or even whether it does :)), whereas this person was having monthly meetings with heads of faculties, services and the Vice Chancellor and would have been required by virtue of her position to scrutinise and approve financial records, changes to the University's constitution and the like. So even if one were to take the view it was relevant, there is no issue. With regard to her position in the Student Association it should be noted that in any given year only 33 people in the entire of Australia hold that role (there are 38 universities but five no longer have functioning student unions/guilds). Orderinchaos 04:51, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
- Not doubting any of that, however, readers should have full information to make up their own minds. Arguably, they could state that someone who is enrolled at university (which according to some a previous editor here for Ms. Ellis was for a period of seven years (in what is normally a three year course) before she dropped out) simply to pad out a political CV, and is involved purely as a hack, is unrepresentative of students and could be self interested. Perhaps not, perhaps some people will take your view. However, I would suggest that this information be left to the public - we certainly keep the information about her being Student Association President - and if possible can even expand on this to list what she achieved in office - but should note that she did not complete her studies to give a full account Auspoliticsbuff (talk) 22:36, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
- As I was curious about this matter (hey, i'm a nerd, i admit it), I called up flinders today on this matter. As it's a matter of public record, they were free to tell me that no-one by the name of Kate Ellis had ever graduated from that university. I do think the page should be amended to include "without attaining a degree' or a similar point. I would think that calling her a 'drop out' as the previous editor did, might be a bit too ovalue-laden... thoughts?Auspoliticsbuff (talk) 23:45, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
- Not doubting any of that, however, readers should have full information to make up their own minds. Arguably, they could state that someone who is enrolled at university (which according to some a previous editor here for Ms. Ellis was for a period of seven years (in what is normally a three year course) before she dropped out) simply to pad out a political CV, and is involved purely as a hack, is unrepresentative of students and could be self interested. Perhaps not, perhaps some people will take your view. However, I would suggest that this information be left to the public - we certainly keep the information about her being Student Association President - and if possible can even expand on this to list what she achieved in office - but should note that she did not complete her studies to give a full account Auspoliticsbuff (talk) 22:36, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
- I certainly agree with most of this, my simple point is that the fact she studied there but did not finish, as would seem to be the case, is relevant due to the nature of her portfolio. If this is indeed the case, then the current phrasing gives a misleading impression that she graduated and ought be looked at Auspoliticsbuff (talk) 04:07, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
I am the person who edited KE's entry regarding her academic record and a couple of other points.
I was surprised to see my edits removed on the basis they were point of view.
The following are facts:
KE is a scion of the powerful SDA. KE was a very late preselection after the ALP's previous preselectee, industrial lawyer Tim Stanley, withdrew close to the election. I think it's relevant politically to note that Tim Stanley is close to Don Farrell of the SDA (the Shop Distributive and Allied Employees' Association). KE was introduced to the preselectors as a chance by SA ALP powerbroker and SDA member Tom Koutsantonis, and she was sponsored to her federal seat by the SDA, whom she thanked profusely in her maiden speech.
KE dropped out of her Arts degree at Flinders Uni. The rule for Who's Who is that attendance only at a university does not support mentioning the institution. You might make a case for KE by saying that her real education there was as Gen Sec of the students' union. That makes it ironic that KE does not support a return to compulsory student unionism, as she recevied a salary from the payments of her fellow students for several years, at first as an Empire Times editor, then as Gen Sec. Those salaries are no longer available.
My general point (and this is POV, I admit) is that KE is a very, very lucky lady. She has fallen into the job of federal minister without having to do much at all. She has benefited from certain 'close friendships', eg with Tom Koutsantonis and Kevin Foley,
Sallykoep (talk) 05:44, 29 March 2008 (UTC)
